Do you ask permission before reclining your seat?

[the real dill]

I usually do. I've never had anyone say no, and I just don't do it if someone tall is behind me. As a tall person, I understand it's a flight killer if someone goes all the way back. I've never had anyone say no, but I have had someone ask for 10 more minutes so they could finish something up for work and close their laptop.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cops-call ... 41388.html

[CalStateTempe]

Nope. My space, my bubble, my dollars.

I'll look to make sure there is no drinks on their tray table, but if not, fair game.

I'll readily admit this is my Napoleon complex acting out, but the reality is most of the best things in life accrue to those with height (reviewing data re: attractiveness of mates, financial capital, career advancement, roller coasters), so I don't feel bad at all about reclining my seat.

[NYCat]

I have a simple rule in life. Don't do things that annoy you or that you hate. I hate it when someone does it to me (w/o asking), thus I ask. I'm tall also.

This is why I only fly first class.

[pokinmik]

Seems like a fine solution dill, especially since you're tall. Communication is key. I barely recline if at all, because I know how much it sucks when somebody in front of me reclines all the way back. If I do recline, I just move a smidge. Flying really can be brutal nowadays. I'm 5'11" 180lbs 30 y.o, and if I'm flying more than a couple hours I feel so cramped, sore, stiff, etc. I can't imagine what it's like for people that are bigger and/or older.

That said those people in the article should be embarassed for not being able to act like decent human beings. I do disagree with the faction of people that think it's their right to recline all the way back without even considering the person behind them (sorry CST! haha). Just slamming that bitch back and going to sleep without a care in the world, leaving misery and pent-up angst in their wake.

I've luckily been able to travel to a few different continents and most of the 50 states already, and at this point flying is so expensive and uncomfortable I've almost given up on being a world/frequent traveler (until I'm older and retired at least). This phase of my life I'm preferring to travel to places I can simply drive to instead - keep my own pace stopping whenever and wherever I want, easily bring the dog, etc.

[CalStateTempe]

None taken. The last two nights have been brutal in "new baby household" so I'm running an less sleep the usual and being more prickish.

I apologize in advance for occasionally using this message board as the preverbal dog to kick.

I'll never just slam back without a care in the world, I'll look, make sure that there is nothing on the tray table and the gradually, slowly recline back. But I have never been given the "courtesy ask" when working on my laptop with a drink when people recline in the past, (probably because they see a shorter individual and think, well he doesn't need all that space), therefore I don't feel the need to extend the same formality. Asking opens up the individual to say no, which I think is unnecessary since I really don't care about their decision in the first place. It would be a question for show or to save face, which is stupid. I don't believe in the persian concept of Taarof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof)

my seat, my preferences.

[PieceOfMeat]

recline all the way back without any courtesy, and don't get pissed when you get the back of your seat kicked a bunch of times by "accident", thus preventing you from actually getting any sleep.

[CalStateTempe]

recline all the way back without any courtesy, and don't get pissed when you get the back of your seat kicked a bunch of times by "accident", thus preventing you from actually getting any sleep.

That is fair.

The individual shouldn't be upset when I lean extra hard into the seat compressing it even further against their delicate knees.

If they want to me to un-recline my seat, they can ask me. Give me the option to accept or reject their offer. That has happened before and I have always obliged.

[azgreg]

Don't these seats only recline about half a degree anyways?

[PieceOfMeat]

recline all the way back without any courtesy, and don't get pissed when you get the back of your seat kicked a bunch of times by "accident", thus preventing you from actually getting any sleep.

That is fair.

The individual shouldn't be upset when I lean extra hard into the seat compressing it even further against their delicate knees.

If they want to me to un-recline my seat, they can ask me. Give me the option to accept or reject their offer. That has happened before and I have always obliged.

Don't be upset if that extra hard lean causes an uncontrollable sneeze reaction that they don't have time to cover with their hand...thus providing you some extra "sleep comfort" mist

::::

I find it odd you expect courtesy of others but don't offer any yourself. I'm reclining damnit, and if they don't want me there they can ask me to get back up!

[CalStateTempe]

recline all the way back without any courtesy, and don't get pissed when you get the back of your seat kicked a bunch of times by "accident", thus preventing you from actually getting any sleep.

That is fair.

The individual shouldn't be upset when I lean extra hard into the seat compressing it even further against their delicate knees.

If they want to me to un-recline my seat, they can ask me. Give me the option to accept or reject their offer. That has happened before and I have always obliged.

Don't be upset if that extra hard lean causes an uncontrollable sneeze reaction that they don't have time to cover with their hand...thus providing you some extra "sleep comfort" mist

::::

I find it odd you expect courtesy of others but don't offer any yourself. I'm reclining damnit, and if they don't want me there they can ask me to get back up!

Not worried...
1. Seat is still a barrier,
2. Air circulates from front to back on most jetliners
3. I'm snug in my right little small persons ball against the window often with a hoodie or baseball cap on if I'm choosing to sleep.
4. The risk of illness transmission on airplanes is from touching contaminated surfaces NOT airborne infection as is commonly thought. It can happen sure, but is minor compared to contact transmission.

As for courtesy...I paid for my seat I am entitled to the bubble in which that seat functions. From however far back the seat in front reclines, to how ever far back mine reclines. Similarly I am entitled to half the armrest. And I make an effort to obtain window seats on all flights.

But the real issue here is the knee defender contraption, which I'm sure most of us can agree is a awful device. I do feel supported in my right to recline since most airlines have outlawed these devices, thus showing preference for the individual in the seat to detriment of those sitting in the seat behind.

[the real dill]

None taken. The last two nights have been brutal in "new baby household" so I'm running an less sleep the usual and being more prickish.

I apologize in advance for occasionally using this message board as the preverbal dog to kick.

I'll never just slam back without a care in the world, I'll look, make sure that there is nothing on the tray table and the gradually, slowly recline back. But I have never been given the "courtesy ask" when working on my laptop with a drink when people recline in the past, (probably because they see a shorter individual and think, well he doesn't need all that space), therefore I don't feel the need to extend the same formality. Asking opens up the individual to say no, which I think is unnecessary since I really don't care about their decision in the first place. It would be a question for show or to save face, which is stupid. I don't believe in the persian concept of Taarof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof)

my seat, my preferences.

Aside from the general courtesy aspect, you're also allowing them person behind you the opportunity to re-situate themselves in their seat, prepare laptop and drinks, etc.

How can you not realize what fully reclining does to the poor bastard behind you? Part of the reason I resort to knee warfare when the oblivious jackass in front of me reclines with rapid speed and only stops because the seat eventually does stop him is precisely because he is sending a signal that he doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself.

[PieceOfMeat]

None taken. The last two nights have been brutal in "new baby household" so I'm running an less sleep the usual and being more prickish.

I apologize in advance for occasionally using this message board as the preverbal dog to kick.

I'll never just slam back without a care in the world, I'll look, make sure that there is nothing on the tray table and the gradually, slowly recline back. But I have never been given the "courtesy ask" when working on my laptop with a drink when people recline in the past, (probably because they see a shorter individual and think, well he doesn't need all that space), therefore I don't feel the need to extend the same formality. Asking opens up the individual to say no, which I think is unnecessary since I really don't care about their decision in the first place. It would be a question for show or to save face, which is stupid. I don't believe in the persian concept of Taarof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof)

my seat, my preferences.

Aside from the general courtesy aspect, you're also allowing them person behind you the opportunity to re-situate themselves in their seat, prepare laptop and drinks, etc.

How can you not realize what fully reclining does to the poor bastard behind you? Part of the reason I resort to knee warfare when the oblivious jackass in front of me reclines with rapid speed and only stops because the seat eventually does stop him is precisely because he is sending a signal that he doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself.

Like I said, I find it odd he expects courtesy from others but doesn't offer any himself. Though, to be fair, I guess he did say he doesn't just automatically slam back, he does at least check the tray to see if it's empty. Still, it'd be nice to give the other person some warning so they can re-situate themselves.

[Chicat]

I like to gradually recline my seat at such a slow rate that the person behind me doesn't even notice it's happening until his laptop has closed on his cup, spilling his Dewars & Coke on the keyboard and ruining his life.

Muahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[UAdevil]

If reclining one's seat is such a douche move and not usually socially acceptable...why the hell do airlines even have reclining seats at all?

[Alieberman]

I fly all the time and have never seen or heard anyone asking permission to recline.

I fully expect the person in front of me to recline.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't recline. If the person in front of me does...I'm 6'3, so they get a lower back massage from my knees the whole flight. I can't sleep on planes, so the reclining does nothing for me.

[Longhorned]

As with all things in life, I think we should all defer to the latest edition of Emily Post. On this matter, the proper etiquette is to ask the person behind you if it's okay. Before the meal is served, put your chair forward again without the person behind you having to ask. If somebody is rude enough to have their seat back during a meal, ask them politely to put it forward. If they refuse, call a flight attendant - they'll take care of that person good and quick.

[catgrad97]

I definitely side with asking first.

Most recliners have no clue who's in the seat behind them, much less what's on the attached tray behind their seat. Asking prevents any perception of rudeness and the inevitable reaction to it by the immature, unrestrained personality.

Frankly, I'm amazed that there hasn't been an incident already where the recliner's chair has come back so hard and fast, it's shot tray food and drink into the lap of the person sitting behind the recliner.

[gumby]

Another symptom of being entitled. "I paid for my ticket!"

CST, if you're going to be small -- literally and figuratively -- when flying, don't be surprised when people jab back, literally and figuratively.

I think it was Taylor who mentioned having one of these jamming devices. Maybe it was bluster. But it just baffles my non-confrontational self that people want to escalate. Not just on planes. Anywhere.

Even if I were to "win" the comfort, I would be mentally disturbed it came to that and it would ruin the flight for me. Guess I'm not assuaged with "I got mine."

I have low expectations when flying and so am rarely disappointed or disturbed. Just get me there in a way I can enjoy my book or crossword puzzle. And if you're not going to eat the peanuts, can I have them? And if you can help with with 26 Across, we'll be buds the rest of the way.

I don't go over the list of all that I'm entitled to. Nor do I pursue what I'm "owed."

I think, "would this bother me"? If so, I don't do it. Plus, I'm usually with my kids, and I don't want to be THAT GUY in front of them.

Damn, I'm awesome!

[CalStateTempe]

Like Alieb, I have never seen anyone ask permission to recline on a flight.

So as a thought experiment, how do you go about it?

1. Please sir/maam, may I recline my seat? (And if/when they say no, you have to oblige right?)

or

2. Sir/Maam, I would like to recline my seat, do you have any problems with that? (again, if they say yes, do you negotiate further or just accept that this jerk is not showing the same respect to your space and you did to his/hers)

or

3. Sir/Maam, I am reclining my seat in 5-10 minutes, please be prepared. (proactive, but likely unnecessarily hostile)

It all seems so unnecessary and trite. I expect others to recline their seat as well and am ready for the inconvenience that that may pose, (for instance working on a laptop).

Frankly, I have never had the knees-kicking-the-seat experience that you all are warning about and I fly often. I am open to changing my ways, but I've never had a problem before.

[CalStateTempe]

Another symptom of being entitled. "I paid for my ticket!"

CST, if you're going to be small -- literally and figuratively -- when flying, don't be surprised when people jab back, literally and figuratively.

I think it was Taylor who mentioned having one of these jamming devices. Maybe it was bluster. But it just baffles my non-confrontational self that people want to escalate. Not just on planes. Anywhere.

Even if I were to "win" the comfort, I would be mentally disturbed it came to that and it would ruin the flight for me. Guess I'm not assuaged with "I got mine."

I have low expectations when flying and so am rarely disappointed or disturbed. Just get me there in a way I can enjoy my book or crossword puzzle. And if you're not going to eat the peanuts, can I have them? And if you can help with with 26 Across, we'll be buds the rest of the way.

I don't go over the list of all that I'm entitled to. Nor do I pursue what I'm "owed."

I think, "would this bother me"? If so, I don't do it. Plus, I'm usually with my kids, and I don't want to be THAT GUY in front of them.

Damn, I'm awesome!

Again, some one reclining their seat would not bother me. Its part of the unwritten code of flying and they have every right to enjoy their flight as they see fit as so I.

You all are making it out like I'm rude and THAT GUY...I've very quiet and considerate in my affairs, especially on a plane, but I do reserve the right to recline my seat if I want to.

[azgreg]

I rarely fly. I don't ask permission to recline, but I let them know I am before hand. If they have an objection I'll listen then recline anyways.

[CalStateTempe]

Lastly, I have had one or two people in the past ask for me to un-recline my seat due to their height.

I happily obliged. Like most things in life, this is all negotiable.

[CalStateTempe]

I rarely fly. I don't ask permission to recline, but I let them know I am before hand. If they have an objection I'll listen then recline anyways.

Exactly Greg.

But how do you let them know, and how has that gone for you? Most of the time people are sleeping or reading behind me and I don't want to bother. They'll let me know if its an inconvenience.

If they are working on the laptop, I could see informing someone, especially because drinks on a laptop are the terminal hip fracture for computing.

[azgreg]

I rarely fly. I don't ask permission to recline, but I let them know I am before hand. If they have an objection I'll listen then recline anyways.

Exactly Greg.

But how do you let them know, and how has that gone for you? Most of the time people are sleeping or reading behind me and I don't want to bother. They'll let me know if its an inconvenience.

If they are working on the laptop, I could see informing someone, especially because drinks on a laptop are the terminal hip fracture for computing.

I just kinda turn my head and say "Coming back". Never had an issue.

[catgrad97]

Lastly, I have had one or two people in the past ask for me to un-recline my seat due to their height.

I happily obliged. Like most things in life, this is all negotiable.

Not usually the case, in my experience with recliners. I've been asked a few times and happily obliged, but when it's me doing the asking, the recliner is usually asleep--or at least pretending to be.

[azcat49]

Being 6'6" this always has some consequences. If the person turns around and asks I will often say, "yes, no problem" and adjust as best I can.

If they just do it I NEVER adjust and they can feel my knees in there back the whole flight. Well worth it to make the uncomfortable dickhead who won't even use common coutesy to turn around and ask.

[azgreg]

[the real dill]

Like Alieb, I have never seen anyone ask permission to recline on a flight.

So as a thought experiment, how do you go about it?

1. Please sir/maam, may I recline my seat? (And if/when they say no, you have to oblige right?)

or

2. Sir/Maam, I would like to recline my seat, do you have any problems with that? (again, if they say yes, do you negotiate further or just accept that this jerk is not showing the same respect to your space and you did to his/hers)

or

3. Sir/Maam, I am reclining my seat in 5-10 minutes, please be prepared. (proactive, but likely unnecessarily hostile)

It all seems so unnecessary and trite. I expect others to recline their seat as well and am ready for the inconvenience that that may pose, (for instance working on a laptop).

Frankly, I have never had the knees-kicking-the-seat experience that you all are warning about and I fly often. I am open to changing my ways, but I've never had a problem before.

I go with just a casual, "I'm about to recline my seat a little, let me know if it's too much." Like I said, most of the time I get a "no problem." Only once did I have a guy ask me to give him some time to finish something up and let him close up his laptop. I happily obliged. I never recline all the way. Just enough to so my head is bobbing forward if I fall asleep.

I have been asked on multiple occasions and I usually just say no problem, I'll switch seats with my wife or daughter. If I'm flying by myself it's almost always for work so I'm not in coach.


For the record, both people in the linked article should have been arrested and fined. They wasted an entire day for 100+ people over some petty BS.

[Longhorned]

Lastly, I have had one or two people in the past ask for me to un-recline my seat due to their height.

I happily obliged. Like most things in life, this is all negotiable.

That's pretty nice. The key is probably just to keep everybody happy (or borderline uncomfortable at best where I fly in coach) and keep things far from the start of escalating.

Echoing what gumby says about entitlement, there's another air travel issue: This idea about giving airline employees a hard time so that they might cave in and grant you some kind of compensation for an unexpected inconvenience. Every now and then, you might get an upgrade or some kind of voucher on your next purchase. That's just not worth the cost of having to live with yourself being that guy. I don't know if any of you had a dad like that growing up. Opened his mouth at the girl behind the desk or whatever, and you just wished you could somehow vanish forever.

[Longhorned]

Another siting of a woman laughing alone with a salad?

https://www.google.com/search?q=women+l ... 0&bih=1031

[the real dill]

I find this subject identical to the guy who stands for the whole game in a section where everyone else is sitting. I guess it's your right to stand, but you're being a complete dick.

[NYCat]

[Spaceman Spiff]

Being 6'6" this always has some consequences. If the person turns around and asks I will often say, "yes, no problem" and adjust as best I can.

If they just do it I NEVER adjust and they can feel my knees in there back the whole flight. Well worth it to make the uncomfortable dickhead who won't even use common coutesy to turn around and ask.

I've never had anyone ask. My thoughts, if you don't like my knees up your backside, you can crank the seat back up. I can't move my legs without digging into a reclined seat.

I don't recline BC it doesn't help me and BC I try to realize it makes other people as uncomfortable as I am.

[catgrad97]

I find this subject identical to the guy who stands for the whole game in a section where everyone else is sitting. I guess it's your right to stand, but you're being a complete dick.

Had that happen to me during that embarrassment of a Holiday Bowl loss to Nebraska at Qualcomm, and I wasn't standing in front of any rows.

Guy actually came down from the concourse above me to tell me I was standing in the way of he and his buddies' view of the game. I offered politely to move down into the pedestrian walkway, as there was no one around my section still staying to watch Arizona shit itself.

He said he didn't care about that, he just wanted me to sit down. I told him, "I'm not going to do that."

Only time I've ever told someone I wouldn't sit down. There are limits to common courtesy, as McKale dwellers know.

[pc in NM]

Fight flight triggers Knee Defender sales



Bloomberg News and other news sites on Tuesday were reporting that the Knee Defender, a gadget that blocks airplane seats from reclining, got a global boost after a scuffle between two passengers forced a United Airlines jet to make an unscheduled landing.

The gizmo’s website crashed Tuesday after traffic surged, and sales rose “substantially” for the $21.95 plastic clips that have been on the market since 2003, inventor Ira Goldman told Bloomberg.

While a product that interferes with another flier’s comfort may rub some people the wrong way, the issue is airlines’ legroom cutbacks, Goldman said. Carriers are shrinking space between rows — Spirit Airlines’ allotment is about 10 percent less than the industry standard — and using thinner cushions to squeeze more people into coach cabins.

The four largest U.S. carriers — American Airlines, United, Delta Air Lines and Southwest Airlines — all bar the use of the Knee Defender, spokesmen said. JetBlue Airways, the fifth-biggest, discourages the use of the devices while not specifically barring them.

The U.S. industry’s standard is about 30 to 31 inches of space between rows. While Spirit passengers have to make do with only 28 inches, some of their seats aren’t susceptible to the Knee Defender. They don’t recline.

When one passenger was denied that bit of personal space Sunday, it led to a heated argument and the unscheduled landing of their plane, just halfway to its destination.

The fight started on a United Airlines flight because one passenger was using the Knee Defender, a $21.95 gadget that attaches to a passenger’s tray table and prevents the person in front of them from reclining.

The Federal Aviation Administration leaves it up to individual airlines to set rules about the device. United Airlines said it prohibits use of the device, like all major U.S. airlines.

The dispute on United Flight 1462 from Newark, New Jersey to Denver escalated to the point where the airline decided to divert to Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport, according to Transportation Security Administration spokesman Ross Feinstein.

[CalStateTempe]

Fight flight triggers Knee Defender sales



Bloomberg News and other news sites on Tuesday were reporting that the Knee Defender, a gadget that blocks airplane seats from reclining, got a global boost after a scuffle between two passengers forced a United Airlines jet to make an unscheduled landing.

The gizmo’s website crashed Tuesday after traffic surged, and sales rose “substantially” for the $21.95 plastic clips that have been on the market since 2003, inventor Ira Goldman told Bloomberg.

While a product that interferes with another flier’s comfort may rub some people the wrong way, the issue is airlines’ legroom cutbacks, Goldman said. Carriers are shrinking space between rows — Spirit Airlines’ allotment is about 10 percent less than the industry standard — and using thinner cushions to squeeze more people into coach cabins.

The four largest U.S. carriers — American Airlines, United, Delta Air Lines and Southwest Airlines — all bar the use of the Knee Defender, spokesmen said. JetBlue Airways, the fifth-biggest, discourages the use of the devices while not specifically barring them.

The U.S. industry’s standard is about 30 to 31 inches of space between rows. While Spirit passengers have to make do with only 28 inches, some of their seats aren’t susceptible to the Knee Defender. They don’t recline.

When one passenger was denied that bit of personal space Sunday, it led to a heated argument and the unscheduled landing of their plane, just halfway to its destination.

The fight started on a United Airlines flight because one passenger was using the Knee Defender, a $21.95 gadget that attaches to a passenger’s tray table and prevents the person in front of them from reclining.

The Federal Aviation Administration leaves it up to individual airlines to set rules about the device. United Airlines said it prohibits use of the device, like all major U.S. airlines.

The dispute on United Flight 1462 from Newark, New Jersey to Denver escalated to the point where the airline decided to divert to Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport, according to Transportation Security Administration spokesman Ross Feinstein.

So what do you all think about the knee defender? I think its passive aggressive BS, way worse then failing to ask to recline your seat.

BTW, thanks LH, Dill, and Greg; I'll use those tips next time and will still recline my seat.

[CalStateTempe]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/kne ... ry-4108447

I agree, the most passive aggressive device ever made.

[UAdevil]

If this is such a huge problem stop making seats that recline. I don't know jack shit about the airline industry so...

[Longhorned]

I think those things come with a card that you're supposed to hand to the person in front of you, which explains to the person that you're using the device. I'm not sure if that move is passive-aggressive, but it would add stress to my trip just to set up that possible confrontation. I know some really nice tall people who are ordering those things, though, so maybe it's just a different ball game if you're tall. In my case, it would just be unproductively aggressive if not passive-aggressive.

[azgreg]

[Alieberman]

Do you ask permission before you fart?

[Longhorned]

Do you ask permission before you fart?

No. You just do as the stewardesses do and cropdust everyone with them.

[ASUCatFan]

I had a confrontation on my flight from Heathrow to Miami last winter because the dude in front of me insisted on reclining his seat and at 6'8" tall, there was absolutely nowhere for my legs to go. After about an hour and a half on the plane, he turned around red in the face and started yelling at me about my knees. I was equally pissed and said some not so nice things to him and he put his seat back up and didn't bother me for the rest of the flight. I'll definitely be investing in some knee defenders the next time I fly. Passive aggressive or not, I'd rather annoy the inconsiderate asshole in front of me than get thrown off of the plane.

[Longhorned]

I had a confrontation on my flight from Heathrow to Miami last winter because the dude in front of me insisted on reclining his seat and at 6'8" tall, there was absolutely nowhere for my legs to go. After about an hour and a half on the plane, he turned around red in the face and started yelling at me about my knees. I was equally pissed and said some not so nice things to him and he put his seat back up and didn't bother me for the rest of the flight. I'll definitely be investing in some knee defenders the next time I fly. Passive aggressive or not, I'd rather annoy the inconsiderate asshole in front of me than get thrown off of the plane.

This is what I'm talking about. ASUCatFan is one of the tall people with a story whom I'm referring to. That device serves a purpose when you're not in a position to be reclined on.

[PieceOfMeat]

Passive aggressive or not, I'd rather annoy the inconsiderate asshole in front of me than get thrown off of the plane.

didn't the person in the story use those, and still get thrown off?

[Puerco]

If someone behind me used those things, I'd simply wait till the meal was served, and then I'd bounce back and forth on my seat as hard as I could. To be fair, I've also been the guy with his knees poking into someone else's back. You keep kneeing someone, they'll usually move the seat up a little. Nah, I don't ask for permission to recline my seat, but if people ask me to move it back up because they don't have any room I will do it. There's no harm in being courteous.

Of course the best solution is to never fly in economy.

[Longhorned]

Maybe you should just hand the guy in front of you a card that says, "The further you recline, the the further I'll insert knee in spine."

[Puerco]

If the seat is mine, I must recline.

[Longhorned]

If it's where I sit, then you must aquit!