Jefe wrote:I don't remember ever stating that the streetcar needs to pay for itself. I knew the supporters would claim every single project along the route was a result of the streetcar. My entire point was that the money could have been spent better. That money could have re-paved 85% of Tucson. A portion of it could have built the Snyder bridge. Or here's a bright idea, don't spend the money! We had a streetcar before, remember how well that worked? Why not spend less than 5% of that money and buy some double decker buses if this was really about getting people around?
The street car wasn't the main reason for the "public/private" investments in the area. The majority of them(Cadence, 1E, 1N, Hub, Level, Herbert) happened because of 8 year tax breaks and other incentives the city gave them.
It took me 45 minutes to go 15 miles last week through town. Google says that trip should take 28 minutes. Congress is so congested now that I bet they will close it to vehicle traffic. Lets wait until they try to expand the streetcar routes and turn this into a billion dollar project that clogs our streets even more and makes commuting by car a nightmare. They want to add routes on Campbell, River, Broadway, 6th, Nogales Hwy, etc. They want to connect Tucson Mall to Tucson Airport. It will take an hour to get across town soon. It will take even longer to use the street car on a similar route.
By the way, I rode it again last weekend and didn't spot the fare police anywhere. I saw several people board and sit down without paying. Already abusing it less than a month in.
First of all, Merkin previously suggested the self-sufficiency angle as a reason against it, so have other opponents of the streetcar, and I wasn't only addressing you, hence the use of the phrase "The Whole Mentality."
Second of all, those tax breaks weren't coming without the streetcar, the city provided them in advance of and precisely due to the street car coming, incentives working hand in hand. Don't kid yourself, much less anyone else by trying to separate the two somehow.
Third, it was entirely predictable that streetcar opponents like yourself would try to deny that just about every single project along the route since the street car was announced was somehow not a result of the streetcar. Never mind that it's a ridiculous notion that defies both fact and logic, haters wanna hate, but really, you can't cite examples to the contrary. The streetcar is THE reason for ALL of that public & private investment along the route, otherwise it either a.) would not have happened and/or b.) would have happened somewhere else besides the route corridor. Additional student housing could have gone up North, South and East of campus farther from Phase I, instead of West of campus and in Downtown along Phase I. Congress, Broadway and other pockets of Downtown were not just going to explode commercially as they have on their own - Downtown had 50+ years to do so since its last heyday, and had not on its own until the streetcar project provided the impetus. Additional buses, double-deckers dressed like big saguaros or not, would not have brought that investment, and would not have allowed the city to provide further incentive to build along the route, don't be silly.
Fourth, Google is no authority on the time it takes to travel somewhere. Google told me it would take 4h25m to go from Anthem just N of Phoenix to Pinetop, AZ through Payson and Heber on a Sunday night two weeks ago, and the trip took 3h10m, including miles of construction zones and traveling the speed limit. Earlier this summer Google told me a trip to Stone Brewery in Escondido would take 22 mins from my location in Del Mar and it took 37. I know your point is that it takes too long in your opinion to get across Tucson, but it took too long before the streetcar existed, as those problems have been years in the making, and the streetcar actually aims to address some of those issues long term, not only in the potential to remove cars off the road, but in the re-engineering of current arteries in conjunction with the streetcar that will make them more effective in moving traffic.
Fifth, this has always been Phase I of the overall streetcar plan, the nexus of the mass transportation network, and if they expand it as planned, it will provide more access to more people, which will not only alleviate the current limited reach of the streetcar - something opponents always cite and something that has been cited (and refuted) often in this thread - but alleviate traffic congestion along these routes by moving more cars (and buses) off the road. Construction along the major arteries won't be as painful as you think due to the existing medians and turning lanes that will either become part of the streetcar route or become a lane of traffic. The remaining short-term pain during construction to fix long-standing issues is fine by me. Congress probably should at some point become pedestrian only anyways, that's not the silver bullet you think it is, as the current success of the streetcar and the related development in bringing people downtown is a MUCH bigger blessing than a curse.
Sixth, as the son of a civil engineer who spent much of his life paving roads and building bridges in Arizona, I have long known that the traffic engineering and management in this town has been perennially fucked, that the anti-growth mentality of the NIMBYs and other assorted idiots in Tucson have long contributed to this issue as several prior remediative measures have been defeated, and that the current traffic quagmire long predates (and has very little to do with) the streetcar project.
Seventh, fare abuse happens with every mass transit system, old or new, but especially new. Sun Tran already announced fare enforcement would be lax in an initial education phase at the start of the streetcar through most of the rest of this year, but would ramp up enforcement once people are accustomed to the streetcar. So no offense to you personally, but your little anecdote about "fare abuse" means jack shit right now.
Finally, it's abundantly clear you just hate the streetcar. Really though, you're crying over spilled milk. The money is spent, the construction happened, the streetcar is moving, whether or not you think it could have been spent better (As an aside, there is no way $83MM of federal monies that came in for the streetcar construction would have existed BUT FOR the construction of the streetcar. The TIGER grant for one never would have come in for Tucson to spend it on paving roads or fixing potholes, and even the portion of the money that could have been used for that purpose would have caused even more disruption to Tucson traffic - and to Tucson business - in the form of road construction projects than you are currently complaining about. Tucson also never raises the finances for their portion of the streetcar to merely pave roads).
There's no "takesies backsies" just because you and a few others are bound and determined to whine about it. There is no guarantee that the problems of another municipality with mass transit projects (caused in large part by bass-ackwards NIMBY-style tea party activism) are guaranteed to replicate here. As a result, there is little to no reasoning with you and most other opponents of the streetcar. I'm not changing your mind, and you sure as hell are not changing mine. The streetcar is here to stay though, that's also not changing. Build it, and they will come.
