WWII

[FreeSpiritCat]

I am watching "Patton 360" from the history channel, on Hulu. I am starting to realize that Eisenhower was not a great commander. He allowed politics to get in the way of his decisions. And he was way too cautious. Patton was relentless, and Eisenhower blocked him on many occasions. He didn't respect Patton's decision-making ability. I strongly believe the European war would have ended sooner if he supported Patton fully.

[pc in NM]

I am watching "Patton 360" from the history channel, on Hulu. I am starting to realize that Eisenhower was not a great commander. He allowed politics to get in the way of his decisions. And he was way too cautious. Patton was relentless, and Eisenhower blocked him on many occasions. He didn't respect Patton's decision-making ability. I strongly believe the European war would have ended sooner if he supported Patton fully.

The Russians were the most determinitive of the ending of the war - Germany surrendered to Russian troops may 8th.

A Fateful Friendship

Eisenhower dreamed of serving under Patton, but history reversed their roles. Their stormy association dramatically shaped the Allied assault on the Third Reich

Patton thought that the chief ingredient in modern war was inspired leadership on the battlefield. Eisenhower felt that leadership was just one factor. He believed that Patton was inclined to indulge his romantic nature, neglecting such matters as logistics, a proper world-wide strategy, and getting along with allies.

https://www.americanheritage.com/fateful-friendship

[Merkin]

I'm not up on my WW2 history as I used to be. Used to be an avid reader about it even when I was a kid in the 60's, but didn't Patton want to continue on into the USSR?

Did that show mention why Patton was not allowed to take part in D-Day and was kept back with this fake army in England?

Thought that he was so aggressive he tended to outrun his supply lines.

And most importantly, who killed Patton?

[wyo-cat]

Patton was commander of FUSAG. The fake army outfit to juke the Krauts into thinking Calais was the landing area for the offensive.

They had so much respect for him it help build credibility for the play.

[Chicat]

Patton wore out his frontline commanders at a pace that was unsustainable. He was almost Russian in his disregard for his men.

Reminds me of this quote from Captain Zap Brannigan from Futurama…

"Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down."

[Merkin]

The Russians were the most determinitive of the ending of the war - Germany surrendered to Russian troops may 8th.

Amazing the number of Americans who think the US saved Europe on its own. I grew up on that legend, that the US saved Europe in both WW1 and WW2. The US just hastened the end of those wars. There was absolutely no way the Germans could have beaten the Soviets once they were unable to take Leningrad and Stalingrad. Just didn't have the manpower nor the manufacturing capability since the entire nation was subject to bombing. The Soviets just moved their manufacturing to the Urals which were out of range of German bombers. Germany never really invested in strategic bombers like they should have. But when Hitler split the armies into trying to make a decisive blow in Russia that was the beginning of the end.

Too bad Katzenfreud took his ball and went home in a huff. His Germanic view of the war was actually pretty informative. I've read a number of books by German soldiers, but they were normally about day to day combat activities and such and they joined to fight the Bolsheviks, especially the SS, never about racial purity . One book was about this SS soldier who missed the day his unit was tattooed, and because of that he survived the POW camp. The Soviets summarily executed SS soldiers if caught. Another was about this Wehrmacht officer who refused to perform forced labor, since it was against the Geneva convention to require officers to work. They sentenced him as a common criminal to 7 years in a Soviet prison. If you were a German soldier draftee, your chance of surviving a Russian POW was decent. Unless you were captured at Stalingrad, then your chance of surviving a camp was only 5%. Not that Germans were any better to Soviet prisoners, like they were to US and UK POWs. If you were a US soldier in a POW camp, your chance of surviving the war was 95%.

But in retrospect, the US did save Europe, not from Germany but from Russia. Maybe Patton was right about pushing the Soviets back to the border, but in retrospect, things are in order now, for the most part anyway. Poland part of NATO? Who would have thought!

I have always found WW2 history fascinating, that such a man like Hitler could ever exist. But now we are seeing it today with Trump. Never ever thought in my lifetime I would see such a thing.

[dovecanyoncat]

I suspect few Americans have any idea how many Russians died in WW2 compared to all other groups/nations.

[FreeSpiritCat]

Hitler's paranoia after the assassination attempt didn't help him either. He didn't trust a lot of his top generals, so he became the commander. He didn't know when to retreat. At least Patton learned that you couldn't go all out all of the time, after what what happened to his forces at Metz. He learned that he had to change tactics at times.

When Japan attacked Pearly Harbor, Germany should have never declared war on the US. Hitler's forces were already spread too thin. Of course, he should have never attacked the Soviet Union until his war with Great Britain was over. He wanted to attack the Soviet Union earlier, but was diverted to Greece because of the ineptness of the Italian forces. He should have waited at least until the next spring.

[Merkin]

The Romanians were rather inept too. When the Soviets made their counterattack, they just went around the Germans and attacked the other Axis forces on the flanks. Besides having inadequate and obsolete weapons, the other Axis forces didn't really have a lot of fight in them.

Even though the Germans have advanced weaponization, they were still primarily horse based for transport. They normally always had over a million horses used at a time. Recall reading where the German soldiers at Normandy could not believe that the US military was 100% mechanized.

The Soviets really didn't care for the American made tanks from Lend-Lease, but they absolutely appreciated the Ford trucks.

My dad had an old Polish neighbor one time. She told my dad that they were so hungry, that one time when the Germans buried a horse the Poles got their shovels and finally had some meat.

Poland lost a higher percentage of it's population that Russia or Germany due to the war.

[dovecanyoncat]

When we first moved into Tucson in 1997 and started looking for a place to build we stayed in our RV at Voyager out on S. Kolb. I meet a tiny man there. He was old and disabled and had a gleaming crooked smile beneath his one functioning eye. He did forward recon for Patton. He said Patton was never sated in his need for intelligence. No sooner did the squad report did Patton send them right back out. His fear and respect for Patton was palpable.

[TheCat]

I suspect few Americans have any idea how many Russians died in WW2 compared to all other groups/nations.

I don't think many American realize the Russians had a pact with Hitler till he broke it. Russia suffered greatly during the war but American aid helped both their arm forces and population. Now the Russian people are being fed that we support the Nazis in Ukraine. They either are not aware of history or stupid if they believe that.