Bear Down Wildcats

Hey all, looking at recommendations for a university path for my son. He is 13, and seems set on a career in medicine (specifically, surgeon). He is in Bahrain at a British system school, and will likely graduate with an IB diploma. Sharp kid, grades and extracurriculars are great, multilingual, etc, so we are aiming high on school selection.

Most likely we'll be applying in other countries too, but we are interested in anybody's US experiences with a university path to MD. He may well end up studying in the US, and living elsewhere (like Australia/NZ/other), if it makes a difference. I understand that there are some universities in the US that even offer a direct path undergrad to MD without the MCAT, praying for acceptance to med school, etc? I will try to curb my hatred of some school's sports teams when we look at pre-med and med schools. Any and all comments are welcome.

Hi WSC, give me some time on this...as an outsider, but as someone who keeps up with 5 - 7 friends who attained their MDs over the past 2 - 4 years, and knew most of them and witnessed first hand their long roads from undergrad through finishing medical school there's a lot I can say about what to expect.

Had my niece just graduate from Texas Tech’s medical school and is in her internship right now.

She did her undergrad work at Columbia with honors and had a heck of a time finding acceptance to a medical school

Not sure if any of this helps but I can reach out to her should you want more specifics.

CatsbyAZ wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:53 am Hi WSC, give me some time on this...as an outsider, but as someone who keeps up with 5 - 7 friends who attained their MDs over the past 2 - 4 years, and knew most of them and witnessed first hand their long roads from undergrad through finishing medical school there's a lot I can say about what to expect.

Thanks, looking forward to any insight you might have.

waysouthcat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:30 am Hey all, looking at recommendations for a university path for my son.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:33 am She did her undergrad work at Columbia with honors and had a heck of a time finding acceptance to a medical school

To a parent my advice would be to please temper your child's expectations.

Many high schoolers and undergrads are proud to announce their ambitions to be a surgeon. It's difficult enough and highly competitive to make the undergraduate grads needed for medical school admission. MD schools only admit 1 in 17 applicants, however, from the applicants side these odds are raised by applying to multiple schools and across repeat application cycles. Only two of my 8 doctor friends were admitted to Medical School on their first application cycle. Of the number who did not make it into Med School, many scaled back their ambitions for productive careers as Nurses, Nurse Practitioners, and Pharmacists.

Once admitted, the academics, hours, and competition is unforgiving. The first few years are more of the same book study classes combined with lab practicals such as taking apart donated bodies.

Grades during this time dictate your career path. Average grads equal front line doctors such as Family Physician, OBGYN, and Pediatrics, all of which require shorter residencies. Better grades equal ER Doctors (Emergency Medicine) and certain specialties like Urology and Internal Medicine, though those will require longer, more intensive residencies. The best grades qualify for Surgeon paths (alongside Cardiologists and Neurologists). These carry by far the longest residencies and most won't be on their own until their forties.

And let's not forget a Med School grad still has to apply for residency. Since you mentioned your son's ambition to be a surgeon, the competition for a surgeon path is global, with applications into these spots coming in from the brightest minds from all over the world. One way to perhaps shortcut this (tempering expectations) is to recommend Emergency Medicine (ER). They are considered frontline doctors but they perform a wide array of surgeries, though not the higher dollar, more advanced Heart or Brain surgeries.

A few things to size up your son for are mental toughness, relentlessness, focus, and competitiveness. The academics are long-haul, the competition is fierce, and the life of a doctor is far more stress than the glamour it once was. School debt is high ($200-$300k), pressure to keep up with the doctor lifestyle is high (many aren't wise with personal finances), malpractice premiums are high, patients are quite often frustrating and disappointing, and doctors are uniquely exposed to prescription drug abuse (xanax, ambien, adderall, lexapro) because stress levels are high and there are fewer regulations on personal access to these pills.

The DO Path is more expensive in most cases but it is very rewarding. Usually perform better on the exams and in residency from what I have heard by many in the field in recent years.

Thanks for the info, guys. Your cautionary tales about the path to MD in the US system leads me to think he would be better off studying overseas. He is an Australian citizen too, so maybe U of Melbourne or U of Sydney medical schools would be a good fit, or even New Zealand?

I have read that certain pre-med schools get a very high percentage of their graduates into med school. For example, if you were lucky enough to get into Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, etc, they apparently have very high rates of acceptance into med schools.

I have several family members that are MD’s. What everyone has said about the difficulty of first time applicants getting admitted is true. However, several of my family members ended up going to med school abroad. With that said, if your son wants to practice in the US and studies abroad, he would still have to pass the USMLE (United States Medical Licensing Exam).

CatsbyAZ wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:00 pm

waysouthcat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:30 am Hey all, looking at recommendations for a university path for my son.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:33 am She did her undergrad work at Columbia with honors and had a heck of a time finding acceptance to a medical school

To a parent my advice would be to please temper your child's expectations.

A few things to size up your son for are mental toughness, relentlessness, focus, and competitiveness. The academics are long-haul, the competition is fierce, and the life of a doctor is far more stress than the glamour it once was. School debt is high ($200-$300k), pressure to keep up with the doctor lifestyle is high (many aren't wise with personal finances), malpractice premiums are high, patients are quite often frustrating and disappointing, and doctors are uniquely exposed to prescription drug abuse (xanax, ambien, adderall, lexapro) because stress levels are high and there are fewer regulations on personal access to these pills.

One factor worth mentioning, my guess is that he would go to university in the USA, but practice elsewhere. Odds are he will live in either Australia, NZ or somewhere in Europe.