2014-15 Season Thread

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:54 pm

That's an odd breakdown for a particular "era"

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:57 pm

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Thu May 14, 2015 10:18 pm

J-Smoove gone nuckin futs

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Thu May 14, 2015 10:50 pm

Clippers are still the Clippers.

Terrible job by Doc tonight. That WSU leveling of couging it

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri May 15, 2015 5:16 am

Where does Nick Johnson stand with the Rockets? Will he get more playing time next year? DNP last night.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri May 15, 2015 6:55 am

That has to be one of the biggest chokes in playoff history.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:06 am

Bulls are garbage, told my dad not to get his hopes up when it was 2-1.

As a disclaimer, I cant stand Lebron. And outside of his bad luck this year with losing Love (and we will see about Kyrie's knee), Lebron has had the greatest luck in terms of cakewalks to the finals. He gets the big 3 at the ends of their careers (at least in terms of being stars) and in the last series they busted up Rondo's arm, then the eastern conference thereafter is complete garbage. Year in and year out it seems that the team w the best chance to beat them in the east would be a 6-8 seed in the west, at best. Then the team that should be equipped every year to give them a series, the bulls, are always plagued by injuries especially Rose.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:20 am

Exactly why Lebron was never leaving the East. He knows he has a cakewalk to the conference finals at a minimum. His career playoff totals should come with a fucking asterisk.

It's one of the buggest travesties in sports that year in and year out a team like the Spurs gets bounced round one. People always say it's cyclical but not this time...going on 20 years almost of complete Western dominance, something really needs to change.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:48 pm

You cant watch the Bulls and expect to see an NBA-level offense.

Meanwhile, the Clippers continue to burn a hole in my heart. Its like being an Arizona Basketball fan... Oh wait.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:50 pm

Man did the clips go cold or what think they got outscored about 45-18 or something like that coming down the stretch. Could not hit a thing.

Still think they get game 7 though.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:53 pm

azcat49 wrote:Man did the clips go cold or what think they got outscored about 45-18 or something like that coming down the stretch. Could not hit a thing.

Still think they get game 7 though.

Josh Smith and Corey Brewer combined for 29 points (5 threes) in the 4th. Pretty sure the end of the world is near.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri May 15, 2015 1:11 pm

TucsonClip wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Man did the clips go cold or what think they got outscored about 45-18 or something like that coming down the stretch. Could not hit a thing.

Still think they get game 7 though.
Josh Smith and Corey Brewer combined for 29 points (5 threes) in the 4th. Pretty sure the end of the world is near.

Every 3 Josh Smith makes in these playoffs increases the number of threes he misses during the regular season next year by 10. It cracks me up. Josh Smith cannot shoot threes well enough to be an asset to his team, yet it is basically impossible to make him stop shooting. Once in a great while, they go in, which makes him shoot them for the next year.

The Warriors are going to skulldrag either of these teams.

Edit: and LeBron is a top 3 alltime player right now. He keeps at a decent level and he can take the top spot.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri May 15, 2015 4:53 pm

LeBron hasn't even been very good this series. Not sure how his recent play triggered your proclamation?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri May 15, 2015 6:35 pm

JMarkJohns wrote:LeBron hasn't even been very good this series. Not sure how his recent play triggered your proclamation?

It didn't. He was well below his usual self against Chicago.

It was just because people above were posting about asterisks. Right now, I'd have MJ, Magic, Wilt and Russell along with Lebron in the top five all time.

And damn, Pierce just had a prayer answered, but I'm not sure that counts.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri May 15, 2015 6:37 pm

Wow, what a punch in the gut for the Zards.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri May 15, 2015 6:47 pm

I'd just like to see LeBron routinely make the Finals as best player in a Conference that doesn't suck.

The few years the East was competing for Titles in 2008-2010 his Cavs failed to advance to expectations, and so he bolted and formed a super team. Now that he's back in Cleveland the East sort of sucks again.

I mean, who were the eastern superstar players he's beat? Nobody on par with the Eastern Superstars of even Jordan.

I don't want to diminish. He's great. Truly. But I can't shake him always playing in a shitty conference and still needing to create a super team to live up to expectations.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri May 15, 2015 6:56 pm

Wasn't really the East competing it was just Boston and he was never gonna beat that team with the roster Cleveland had no matter how good they were in the regular season

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri May 15, 2015 7:18 pm

Main Event wrote:Wasn't really the East competing it was just Boston and he was never gonna beat that team with the roster Cleveland had no matter how good they were in the regular season

Cavs couldn't beat Magic in 2009.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri May 15, 2015 7:26 pm

A team full of 3 point shooters with prime Dwight. KG doesn't get hurt, its just another L to Boston

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri May 15, 2015 7:40 pm

Main Event wrote:A team full of 3 point shooters with prime Dwight. KG doesn't get hurt, its just another L to Boston

I agree that Magic would lose to Boston. I agree that Cavaliers would lose to Boston. What I'm saying is the great LeBron lost to the Magic. In his prime.

I'm just saying that I really feel a lot of James' greatness is aided by crap competition, in both pure stats and playoff advancement.

Not saying he isn't great. But he's never defeated a truly great, in-prime Eastern Conference team, nor All-Time Great in the Eastern playoffs.

Yes, he beat Durant/Westbrook/Hardon, but that was on his super team.

I don't know. He's great. No doubt. All-Time, even. But I can't even feign praise. I respect the western battles much more. No cakewalks. None at all.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri May 15, 2015 7:58 pm

Even if he went out West and went to a team like New Orleans who isn't a playoff team w/ a healthy OKC, that team still more than likely goes to the finals pretty easily imo. He probably just goes to the Clippers and they win 70+ every year

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:22 pm

Main Event wrote:Even if he went out West and went to a team like New Orleans who isn't a playoff team w/ a healthy OKC, that team still more than likely goes to the finals pretty easily imo. He probably just goes to the Clippers and they win 70+ every year

I don't judge on what if. I don't give Jordan 8 titles like some. I don't wonder if Russell or Miken would be role players with today's modern athlete.

I'm just saying I've never been impressed with LeBron's success in the all-time picture. He's lost to some average at best teams, never beat the caliber of elite conference talent, and struggled at times throughout.

He's great. But compare his career against the Jordan's, Magic's, Bird's, Kareem's, Russell's, etc, I am not sure it measures up to the same levels. Just hasn't beat the great teams, not great players, nor put up the great stats often enough.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:55 pm

Orlando is probably the only average at best team he's lost to i'm really not sure you can fault him for the East having 2 competent front offices. You might not want to play the what if game but let's be real, any team out west he goes to with the exception of a select few instantly becomes a heavy favorite.

What LeBron is doing now in the East is no different than what Jordan was doing in the East the moment the bad boys got old. Everyone knew he wasn't losing to the Knicks like LeBron isn't losing to the Bulls. LeBron walks into the same situations all those guys minus Jordan and Kareem did and this isn't a debate.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri May 15, 2015 11:35 pm

Main Event wrote:Orlando is probably the only average at best team he's lost to i'm really not sure you can fault him for the East having 2 competent front offices. You might not want to play the what if game but let's be real, any team out west he goes to with the exception of a select few instantly becomes a heavy favorite.

What LeBron is doing now in the East is no different than what Jordan was doing in the East the moment the bad boys got old. Everyone knew he wasn't losing to the Knicks like LeBron isn't losing to the Bulls. LeBron walks into the same situations all those guys minus Jordan and Kareem did and this isn't a debate.

I don't buy this for a second.

Jordan had to beat multiple Championship contending teams in the late 80s and early 90s. Teams who won multiple Titles in that window and made many others. Plus in prime he had to go through a dominant Knicks team, who people rewrite as OK when they were a devestating squad. This doesn't even factor in the litany of All-Time great players Jordan had to beat to even advance to the Finals.

I remember when Prime Kidd couldn't win shit out West, then headed East and made two consecutive Finals, but only beat 1 50-win team out East to get to those two trips.

The East is not good. James' two most talented conference rivals, Rose and George, are injured. Half the squads are actively tanking. Many others are sub-500 playoff teams lacking any real star.

Of course if James joins a Western club they contend. Even the shitty Lakers had Bryant, Boozer, etc.

But there's nothing in his playoff track record to support he's capable of defeating three or four 50-win teams to win a Title. None.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Sat May 16, 2015 6:09 am

When I mentioned the asterisk I wasn't saying lebron isn't good. He's the best player in the world right now. He's a beast and regardless who else is on your team you can walk into the gym with confidence and your dick swinging, there are not many players like that each generation if at all.

What I meant was the sheer amount of games this motherfucker gets to play by virtue of the East sucking so bad, and the amount of total stats this will lead to. The Cavs sans lebron, the Hawks, wiz, and bulls would all get beat first round in the West IMO. It's especially bad this year but the East has been mostly the JV league for pretty much 30 years (besides Chicago and a couple other select teams). Lebron is not stupid, he knew he had to stay East for this reason and I don't blame him I'd do the same thing.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat May 16, 2015 9:11 am

I haven't checked this for his entire career, but from 91-93, Jordan never faced a single fewer than 20 total wins conference foe. In the last four years James has played 3/4 per season a minimum of 3 times each.

Those same years Jordan faced only 2/3 conference foes with fewer than 30 wins. James in the last four years has faced an a minimum of 4, a maximum of 6 per season.

Those same years Jordan typically faced just 5/6 conference foes with under .500 win percentage. In the last four years James has faced a minimum of 8, a maximum of 10 per season.

If course this matters some. Half of Jordan's career numbers came against 50-win teams like the Celtics, Pistons, Knicks, Pacers, Cavs, even fading 76ers. Most teams with at least one, but several with multiple HoFers, most who won Titles, if not multiple, but also who got to the Finals at a minimum.

The late 80 through mid-90s the East was very good. Those Cavs teams had incredible talent and are widely regarded as a Jordan punchline.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sat May 16, 2015 9:16 am

JMarkJohns wrote:
Main Event wrote:Orlando is probably the only average at best team he's lost to i'm really not sure you can fault him for the East having 2 competent front offices. You might not want to play the what if game but let's be real, any team out west he goes to with the exception of a select few instantly becomes a heavy favorite.

What LeBron is doing now in the East is no different than what Jordan was doing in the East the moment the bad boys got old. Everyone knew he wasn't losing to the Knicks like LeBron isn't losing to the Bulls. LeBron walks into the same situations all those guys minus Jordan and Kareem did and this isn't a debate.
I don't buy this for a second.

Jordan had to beat multiple Championship contending teams in the late 80s and early 90s. Teams who won multiple Titles in that window and made many others. Plus in prime he had to go through a dominant Knicks team, who people rewrite as OK when they were a devestating squad. This doesn't even factor in the litany of All-Time great players Jordan had to beat to even advance to the Finals.

I remember when Prime Kidd couldn't win shit out West, then headed East and made two consecutive Finals, but only beat 1 50-win team out East to get to those two trips.

The East is not good. James' two most talented conference rivals, Rose and George, are injured. Half the squads are actively tanking. Many others are sub-500 playoff teams lacking any real star.

Of course if James joins a Western club they contend. Even the shitty Lakers had Bryant, Boozer, etc.

But there's nothing in his playoff track record to support he's capable of defeating three or four 50-win teams to win a Title. None.

He got the Bad Boys at the tail end of there run, other than that he was just beating up on the Knicks who people overrate if anything on nostagial alone. They got taken to 7 and robbed a Jordan-less Bulls the following year. The year Jordan finally won a title, there were as many 50 win teams in the East as there were this year and you still had below .500 teams in the playoffs.

Prime Kidd's best team here was a team where he got hurt late and Cliff Robinson was the leading scorer, what were you expecting them to win?

Rose's MVP year pre-injury they won 62 and lost in 5 to LeBron, George was healthy with Stephenson they won 56 and 49 they still lose to LeBron the past 2 years that story was never changing. You say he wasn't really beating super teams until he got a super team, well what do you think any playoff team he goes to in the West is going to be? An already stacked team adding the best player on the planet isn't losing to anyone else especially any team in the top 4 or a San Antonio.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat May 16, 2015 2:51 pm

Tail end of their run they were two-time Champs and three-time Eastern champs in a row. They were healthy and in their prime when Bulls "caught them". The late 80's and early 90's Celtics were 50-game winners. The Knicks were the best recorded team in the East in 92-93, second only to Suns in entire league. Cavs won 50+ games several seasons with multiple All-Stars or All-NBAers.

Kidd is another example. But the fact his multiple 50+ win, Western Conference teams couldn't win a first round playoff series perfectly examples my point. How many 51-win teams in the East have been 6 seeds? How many 56-win eastern teams have been 4 seeds? Cavs won 53 this year and were the 2-seed. The sixth seed won 41 games.

Please stop making excuses.

Jordan's upward prime conflicted with multiple multiple-title winners, and the Bulls rise ended and denied almost a dozen great teams runs, players their otherwise earned titles.

People say it's equivalent. It's not even close. The bottom now is much worse, and the top not nearly as strong.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat May 16, 2015 2:58 pm

And stop bringing up "West". I've never said he should play in the west. I said if the east was as tough as the west, I doubt his team's achieve their recorded success and he gets worn down all the quicker, likely not putting up eventual numbers.

You cannot change the fact LeBron has benefitted in both wins and stats from playing in the inferior top-to-bottom conference for his entire career, and padded his playoff legacy by creating a super team at the expense of two other top-4 Eastern playoff teams in Cleveland and Toronto, with his two likeliest challengers of Rose and George having one healthy season each to compete before devestating injuries.

That's not nearly equal to dominating a prime Ewing his entire career, or ending a Title run of two-Time champs, or denying folks like Miller, Mourning and Shaq multiple times in full seasons.

I'm not saying James isn't great, but it's shortsighted to start claiming top-3. Maybe even premature for top-10.

On talent? Sure.

On maximizing his talent? Not yet.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sat May 16, 2015 3:59 pm

JMarkJohns wrote:Tail end of their run they were two-time Champs and three-time Eastern champs in a row. They were healthy and in their prime when Bulls "caught them". The late 80's and early 90's Celtics were 50-game winners. The Knicks were the best recorded team in the East in 92-93, second only to Suns in entire league. Cavs won 50+ games several seasons with multiple All-Stars or All-NBAers.

Kidd is another example. But the fact his multiple 50+ win, Western Conference teams couldn't win a first round playoff series perfectly examples my point. How many 51-win teams in the East have been 6 seeds? How many 56-win eastern teams have been 4 seeds? Cavs won 53 this year and were the 2-seed. The sixth seed won 41 games.

Please stop making excuses.

Jordan's upward prime conflicted with multiple multiple-title winners, and the Bulls rise ended and denied almost a dozen great teams runs, players their otherwise earned titles.

People say it's equivalent. It's not even close. The bottom now is much worse, and the top not nearly as strong.

The still "prime" bad boys never won a series again the moment they lost to the Bulls and didn't win another series as a franchise untill 2000, they caught them at the tail end. LeBron caught Boston and there 3 HOF's + Rondo at the tail end to. The Celtics team Jordan ran into was a great team no one is disputing that, he also never beat them. The Bulls, again won 62 games and finished with the best record in the NBA before they lost in 5 to LeBron, more than the Knicks in 92. Neither team was going to conquer Jordan or LeBron. The same year the Cavs won 57 in the East was the same year 3 teams below .500 made the playoffs, hasn't happened in 15 years plus. The 6th seed that year won 40 games........ still less than the 6th seed this year, let's stop already.

Nobody is disputing that the West is tougher than the East, Kidd went to a team in the East that had a better supporting cast that stayed healthy the majority of the team which he didn't get here.

Jordan retired and none of the east teams we're pretending are better than they really are won a title in the process with no Jordan to deny them. You got 2 "tough" series then and you get 2 "tough" series now

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat May 16, 2015 4:15 pm

Thomas tore his Achilles. He was 32. They traded off assets upon injury. The Pistons teams that the Bulls beat was a completely different team. Yes, going forward, but that season and the previous, Jordan faced far superior playoff teams.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat May 16, 2015 4:42 pm

I'm not going to argue this anymore. I'm right. I don't care if I'm asserting beyond comfort levels.

Today's Eastern Conference is a joke. It has been for over a decade. So I don't care about win totals of the Bulls, or Pacers. They fattened up on terrible teams, same as LeBron. Yes, LeBron, with Miami, was better. LeBron without, there's no proof he's so superior to the Eastern hoi polloi. Better, yes, but aside from the Celtics, he's never faced a great team in the East, and he never beat them.

In Jordan's day there were fewer teams, so the talent wasn't as spread thin. Most teams in the East won 35-45 games. Most teams now win 25-35 games.

The bottom teams are much worse, and, more in number, allowing teams in the Confrence to feast on the unbalanced schedule.

Jordan faced the Celtics and Pistons early in his career. Teams that totaled 5 Titles and 8 Finals appearances in the decade. He beat the titles-defending Pistons, outlasted the Celtics, then faced very good teams like the Cavs (first threepete), and Pacers, Magic, Heat (second threepete), with the Knicks winning 55+ games multiple seasons and netting two Finals appearances each year after Jordan retired. Yes, the East started its decline in the mid-90s. But even in his last season with the Bulls the bottom teams we're still better than now, and the talent in the East better, with elite All-Timers either finishing careers (Bird, Thomas), in primes (Ewing, Miller, Price, Mutumbo), or just getting to prime (Shaq, Mourning, Iverson).

James outlasted the mid-00s Pistons, and beat them, though that team wasn't nearly as good a team as the Bad Boys. He was effectively unchallenged out East, but lost to a trio of post-prime, but still effective Garnett/Pierce/Allen, survived the upstart Bulls and Pacers after injury killed their ceilings, and lost to prime Howard when James led a 66-win team. And He only won it all when he formed a super team in Miami, which, as I mentioned, dismantled two top-4 Eastern teams to construct.

And even as a Super team, they went 7 games a few times in the Conference Finals, and James is 2/5 in Finals. And don't give me the competition. Jordan survived the east and then had to beat Title-contending Lakers, Trail Blazers, Suns, Sonics, and Jazz, each with at least one top-50 player All-Time, and most with at least two HoFers, all in primes. The Suns, Sonics, and Jazz part 2 were the franchises top teams ever to that point and since. The Suns and Jazz had that current year's MVPs.

I'm telling you. It's not even close.

James is great. But he's benefitted greatly from the weak east.

Yes, Jordan's east wasn't the 80s East with Boston, Philly, Detroit, and even Atlanta all serious contenders (the first three winning Titles). But it was more elite at the top and in players, and better at the bottom.
It was harder to get stats and pad wins. It just was.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 18, 2015 2:59 pm

I don't really want to restart any arguments, but I feel LeBron gets shrifted a little bit in the argument. His first finals run, they beat a Pistons team that almost went back to back. Garnett, Pierce and Allen are all either HOF locks or likely. Rose was an MVP the year LeBron's Heat took out the Bulls in the ECF.

When you look at that vs Jordan, Jordan was beating teams with one HOF level guy (Ewing, Miller, Shaq) and a bunch of solid guys. Prime Penny was probably the best, but the Knicks had guys like Starks as their second scorer.

It's not like Jordan didn't have luck. The Olajuwon Rockets could have taken at least one of the two from MJ's Bulls. Bird and the Celtics broke down right as MJ and Pippen made the leap. If Shaq doesn't leave for LA, it's hard not to think MJ maybe doesn't get that last 3 peT.

Ultimately, though, a player's career has to be judged against who he played. Against that competition, LeBron's only peer is MJ. PER wise, it's basically a dead heat.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:36 pm

The Knicks had so much talent that a player like Oakley, a career 15-12 PF with the Bulls was at his worst 10-9 and at best an All-Star alongside Ewing, while PFs like Charles Smith (a former All-Star) and Anthony Mason (a future All-Star) picked up the scraps at roughly 12-6 for Smith and 10-6 for Mason.

And you knock Stark, but his emergence relegated a career 20 ppg scorer on Rolando Blackman to a 9 ppg, bench role one year after averaging 19 ppg with the Mavs.

Those Knicks teams, way more so than LeBron ever has, get diminished and excused away.

They came at you in waves. They were relentless like an ocean, big, strong, brutal.

I'm not going to argue this anymore. LeBron is great. His competition not nearly so much, and his success against them, not necessarily impressive without his super team.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 18, 2015 6:36 pm

I don't mean to argue. Jmark, you're obviously a knowledgeable guy about the NBA and there were really good teams then.

I just think that, in the future, we'll regard guys like Jimmy Butler like we do John Starks now. The West is a better, deeper conference, but guys like Horford will be equal to Oakley or better. Time just generally makes the heart grow fonder.

The one area I would argue is LeBron being less impressive without Miami. Frankly, the first finals run was one of his best runs of basketball ever. He singlehandedly beat a great Pistons team. His biggest help was Boobie Gibson.

The area he's had issues with is never being paired with another superstar except with Wade or Bosh (although Wade was half dead by the end of that). Wilt is a great example of how incredible individual performance doesn't win without talent around you.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon May 18, 2015 7:32 pm

I love that the 2007 Detroit Pistons are great but the 92-95 Knicks weren't.

You realize the 2007 Pistons didn't even have Ben Wallace anymore, right? That they had a soon-to-be retired McDyess and Webber replacing the former multiple time Defensive Player of the Year? That this great Pistons team won a staggering 53 wins in an East with only 5 teams over .500?

But the 92-93 Knicks who won 60 games in an Eastern Conference with 7 teams above .500 are nostalgically overrated to prop up Jordan.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon May 18, 2015 7:46 pm

And forgive me if I'm not overly impressed by LeBron beating two 41-win teams to advance to the Conference Finals only to beat a Pistons team who wasn't defending a Title, not a year removed, not even two years removed, but three years removed and minus multiple All-Star players, including a future Hall of Famer, replacingthem with two players a few too many knee injuries into a career and a few too many seasons from calling it a career to replace them.

Seriously, in 2006-07, only 5 teams were over .500, only 7 of 15 teams even won 40 games.

Again, to compare, in 92-93, 7 teams were over .500, and 10 of 14 teams won 40 or more games.

This is it. I'm done. The mic has been dropped.

Please stop picking it up.

Reframing inaccuracies won't make them accurate.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Mon May 18, 2015 7:54 pm

The 10-11 Bulls won 62, had an MVP, a future DPOY, and 3 past or future all stars in the Eastern conference that had 7 teams above .500 too and had more 50 wins teams in the East than in 92-93. Neither the Bulls or Knicks even saw a 50 win team til the conference finals

No different

Edit: And I really wasn't going to touch the finals obviously Jordan was 6/6 but Durant and Duncan are top 50 if they re-do the list. Manu and TP are HOF's same with Westbrook and Harden if they keep up there pace, that's 3 HOF's on each team he beat and Dirk is a top 50 HOF on the other one he lost to. Don't think Jordan beat a finals team with more than 2

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 18, 2015 8:13 pm

JMarkJohns wrote:I love that the 2007 Detroit Pistons are great but the 92-95 Knicks weren't.

You realize the 2007 Pistons didn't even have Ben Wallace anymore, right? That they had a soon-to-be retired McDyess and Webber replacing the former multiple time Defensive Player of the Year? That this great Pistons team won a staggering 53 wins in an East with only 5 teams over .500?

But the 92-93 Knicks who won 60 games in an Eastern Conference with 7 teams above .500 are nostalgically overrated to prop up Jordan.

I think that Pistons team was very comparable to the early 90's Knicks.

The year after LeBron beat them, the Pistons won 59. The year prior, they won 64. They made 2 finals appearances to the Knicks 1. 1 ring to 0. 6 straight years of ECF or Finals appearances until 2008. Plus, ugly, defense first basketball.

When time passes, LeBron beating them with jack on his team will be pretty impressive.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:28 pm

When James beat them, they won 53 games. This was 2006-07.

And they simply were not on par, at least that season. They barely passed 50 wins in a shit East. Truly shit East.

We have to stop discussing this.

I can't say it any more cleanly or provide any more records or standings. The East has been garbage for a decade. Pistons from 2004-2006 were very good, then faded quickly as they shed talent, got older, and became hoi polloi. The Celtics had 3 seasons at peak form, but injuries and age stunted their ceiling.

Those are the two teams along with Miami worth a damn.

Detroit: a team full of talented cast offs and barely All-Stars whose sum was greater than its individual parts.

Boston: a true super team of elite HOF talent, though in slight decline, with quality coaching and youth and role players.

Since 2004 these are the only real teams that matter. James beat the death rattle of Detroit, and failed to beat Boston, and failed to beat Orlando, and then bolted for Miami.

And, lastly, I don't give two shits about 53 wins in a Conference with more sub-40-win teams than above-40-win teams, and with more 20-win teams than 50-win teams.

For a decade there have been no more than two legitimate contending teams in the conference at one time, and injury and age have limited even that several seasons.

For fuck's sake, the Nets made the Finals in 2001-02 without defeating a single 50-win team to get there.

Dreck and shit and shit and dreck...

That's what James is quasi-King over.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:35 pm

Also, lastly, the the 2003-04 Pistons were very fortunate to catch LA in the midst of the Kobe scandal and subsequent implosion. Also very fortunate to not have to face a prime Jordan, or Hakeem.

But, this is that what if game I don't play.

The Pistons were good. Very good. The year they lost to the Cavs they were barely the former and nothing of the latter.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Tue May 19, 2015 1:32 pm

Would restructuring/eliminating the Conferences work?

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue May 19, 2015 4:20 pm

Jefe wrote:Would restructuring/eliminating the Conferences work?

To a point.

But I see a Seattle and multiple Euro expansion in next decade. So maybe not long term.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:37 pm

JMarkJohns wrote:Also, lastly, the the 2003-04 Pistons were very fortunate to catch LA in the midst of the Kobe scandal and subsequent implosion. Also very fortunate to not have to face a prime Jordan, or Hakeem.

But, this is that what if game I don't play.

The Pistons were good. Very good. The year they lost to the Cavs they were barely the former and nothing of the latter.

Malone getting hurt was the final nail in that coffin.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:48 pm

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:50 pm

Lakers are going to get a top three.

The NBA is such a sham.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:55 pm

If I know Minnesota, they'll find a way to screw up that pick and ruin any talent they acquire.

Reydituto · Post by **Reydituto** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:57 pm

Suns trading that Lakers pick gained validation today ...

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:05 pm

Poor Knicks lol

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:27 pm

If Russell is gone for Magic, they should trade back and acquire multiple picks and draft Booker and another wing shooter.

But they'll probably take Winslow.

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