Suns Offseason Thread

thenewazcats · Post by **thenewazcats** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:31 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Is it wrong to think this is entirely a PR move? Sarver knows he has no chance, but it helps quell the rumors about him being cheap long enough to camouflage the fact that they actually don't really wind up improving via free agency. He remains in no actual danger of having to spend money.

Yep. Deng nabbit.

wooha · Post by **wooha** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:25 pm

Isaiah Thomas for 4/$27?! WTF

There better be more to this...

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:26 pm

Probably bye Bledsoe

CatnapTom · Post by **CatnapTom** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:00 pm

wooha wrote:Isaiah Thomas for 4/$27?! WTF

There better be more to this...

Is Sarver aware of which Isaiah Thomas he's getting ?

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:22 pm

Thomas at 7+ a year is a great deal. He averaged 20 PPG, 6 APG as a starter.

Aside from the value, I'm baffled.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:32 pm

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:01 pm

It can happen for 1 season because their frontcourt of Morrii/Tucker/Green/Plumlee/Len/Warren only costs 25 million and Ennis/Goodwin cost only 3 million, and then Dragic opts out next year, you have Goodwin/Bogdanovic as SG options and that total becomes a far more manageable 25-28 million total for top-4 guards.

It's about asset acquisition. Suns can acquire the best talent at the best value, give it a year and see what they can get at the deadline or next offseason for values like Thomas or Dragic or Green or Tucker or whomever, really, as everyone on Suns, save for maybe Bledsoe has an attractive, valued contract.

Look out for Dragic for Stephenson rumors. Pacers want Dragic. Not sure Suns want Stephenson, but maybe as part of three-team trade where they get a 1st or two.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:46 pm

It would be crazy to trade away Dragic, no?

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:10 pm

Hard, yes. Crazy, no, especially if the right offer comes to them, namely Pacers via sign/trade next offseason.

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:26 pm

A 1st or 2 for Dragic? Lol that would be tremendously bad. Especially if it is the Pacers.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:55 pm

You never get full value at deadlines for expiring contracts or sign-n-trades.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:34 am

wooha wrote:Isaiah Thomas for 4/$27?! WTF

There better be more to this...

I really like this signing. In my opinion, there will definitely be a trade. I wonder if they will try and get Love. I doubt they would want Stephenson, doesn't seem like McDonough would want to bring in a headache.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:39 am

wooha wrote:Isaiah Thomas for 4/$27?! WTF

There better be more to this...

No way this guy should be allowed on campus!

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:19 pm

Could Kris Humphries be in the Suns future?

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:28 pm

How many PG'S do the suns have now, 4? Dragic, Bledsoe, Ennis and now Thomas. Something has to be happening

thenewazcats · Post by **thenewazcats** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:06 pm

Not impressed by this offseason, the draft or free agency. I guess maintaining flexibility is better than reaching and adding a bad contract, but how long do we wait until we make a real move? 2016 offseason going hard at Durant? I doubt he would come to Phx. Sarver has ruined this franchise.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:32 pm

Only the Summer league, and i'm already over Tyler Ennis. Warren however is a stud

ElGatoBlanco · Post by **ElGatoBlanco** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:28 pm

Main Event wrote:Only the Summer league, and i'm already over Tyler Ennis. Warren however is a stud

Still pissed we passed on Harris for Ennis, but the Warren pick was fantastic.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:44 pm

thenewazcats wrote:Not impressed by this offseason, the draft or free agency. I guess maintaining flexibility is better than reaching and adding a bad contract, but how long do we wait until we make a real move? 2016 offseason going hard at Durant? I doubt he would come to Phx. Sarver has ruined this franchise.

Sarver's plan: create "space" by spending less (aka, being cheap) then making unsuccessful runs at unrealistic free agency targets, thus ensuring the payroll remains low but he has plausible deniability for charges of being cheap. Drafting a ton of guys and keeping them rookie scaled assists this aim.

Coop Cat · Post by **Coop Cat** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:32 pm

thenewazcats · Post by **thenewazcats** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:44 pm

Coop Cat wrote:

Bledsoe will be waiting all summer for that 5 year, $80 million offer. If he somehow gets it, I don't think the Suns should match.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:46 pm

Why would they match, just keep Drajic. I could see 4 at 60 and build out from there but I have trouble seeing what the Suns are trying to do at this point.

wooha · Post by **wooha** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Bledsoe has no leverage. He's going to have to come way down as he gets crickets from the rest of the league. Not sure there are many teams out there that still could even make him a realistic offer, cap space-wise.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:23 pm

He'll just sign a qualifying offer and the Suns will then have to pick between him and Goran. They better trade him

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:10 pm

End of the day very few players take the qualifying offer. Should his knee blow up again, it could be a 40-50 million difference. You take the 4-year, or 5-year with player option after four and take your guaranteed 50-55 million. Very few players get max after rookie scale.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:52 am

If the Suns can flip Bledsoe for Randle, Hill, 1st, that's highway robbery. Rumor is they'll front load Hills deal so his CAP number next year is mid-level range so he can be flipped for another 1st.

Someone I know says trade is pending. Can't be finalized until 30 days from Randle's signing with LA, but it seems like legit rumblings.

Thomas/Hill/Toliver/Randle/Warren/Ennis in

Bledsoe/Frye out

Retain CAP flexibility, as well.

Fingers crossed.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:18 pm

[youtube]f9n7SJuM6sI[/youtube]

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:51 pm

JMarkJohns wrote:If the Suns can flip Bledsoe for Randle, Hill, 1st, that's highway robbery. Rumor is they'll front load Hills deal so his CAP number next year is mid-level range so he can be flipped for another 1st.

Someone I know says trade is pending. Can't be finalized until 30 days from Randle's signing with LA, but it seems like legit rumblings.

Thomas/Hill/Toliver/Randle/Warren/Ennis in

Bledsoe/Frye out

Retain CAP flexibility, as well.

Fingers crossed.

Not my favorite offseason, but if the front office could pull off that Bledsoe deal it would be pretty amazing.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:00 pm

Pending makes it sound finalized. Poor choice of words. But he says this is a legitimate rumor that would have to remain pending for a few weeks even if agreed upon.

More importantly, is Randle/Minnesota 1st + whatever return from Toronto for Ennis in a three-team trade enough to get back in Love sweepstakes?

If so, that leaves some package of Len, Morrii, Warren, Goodwin, rights to Bogdanovic, and Lakers 1st, Houston 1st, Suns 1sts to acquire a superstar wing.

Reydituto · Post by **Reydituto** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:30 pm

Would love Randle in a Suns uni, as he's a long-term bet that wouldn't be "needed" in the short term, and he can take whatever time is needed to heal up.

As much as I like Bledsoe, would rather keep Dragic if have to choose. Ennis pick still baffles me.

JMJ, what's your thought on Tolliver?

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:04 pm

I wanted Tolliver when Suns had Amare. Now? I like his ethic, and Hornacek seems to maximize talent, but I'd be surprised if he's more than a spot minute guy at this stage. Especially if Suns get Randle.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:15 pm

Gambo tweeted that Hill can't be traded until January, so those rumors are not real.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:39 pm

True, if signed, but the rumors of a sign/trade of his contract.

Basically:

Suns sign-trade Bledsoe near max for Lakers
Lakers sign-trade Hill at 16/6 over 2 for Suns
Lakers trade Randle
Lakers trade 1st

Since both Bledsoe and Hill are base-year compensation players, their contract only counts 50% of value in the trade, but since the Suns are under the CAP, they can absorb the higher signed value.

It's doable, and sources say Hill hasn't officially signed.

Now, I like Gambo for info but I'm starting to think McDonough uses him less than previous regimes, as he's been wrong or misguided far more than correct lately. He swore Gary Harris was Suns top choice. Suns passed on him twice. He swore they'd trade up if doable. It was, see Denver 11 for Chicago 16/19. But they didn't. He floated info on Frye that was wrong. And he offered little insight into a the Suns push for Thomas.

My guess is he's a blustering mouthpiece of "keeping Bledsoe" so all know the Suns strategic message, but maybe not their intentions.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:17 pm

The Goat wrote:
JMarkJohns wrote:If the Suns can flip Bledsoe for Randle, Hill, 1st, that's highway robbery. Rumor is they'll front load Hills deal so his CAP number next year is mid-level range so he can be flipped for another 1st.

Someone I know says trade is pending. Can't be finalized until 30 days from Randle's signing with LA, but it seems like legit rumblings.

Thomas/Hill/Toliver/Randle/Warren/Ennis in

Bledsoe/Frye out

Retain CAP flexibility, as well.

Fingers crossed.
Not my favorite offseason, but if the front office could pull off that Bledsoe deal it would be pretty amazing.

If your team isn't on the A-list*, and it sounds too good to be true, the it's probably too good to be true.

A-list:
NY Yankees
Lakers
Arizona Wildcats Basketball
Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
Real Madrid
Manchester United

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:08 pm

Tucker.

Gotta miss Jerry Colangelo at times like this

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:46 pm

Longhorned wrote:Tucker.

Gotta miss Jerry Colangelo at times like this

.201 Super Extreme DUI!!!!

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:28 pm

BAC was like .220.

I didn't like his re-signing before this.

Post by **UAdevil** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:30 pm

And the Suns knew all about this WHEN they signed him. Not a good look.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:59 pm

UAdevil wrote:And the Suns knew all about this WHEN they signed him. Not a good look.

Let's say it is a good look. But when Sheriff Joe sends him to Tent City for a minimum of 45 days, can somebody do the math on the value of the contract having missed 22 games and returning out of shape on a diet of baloney and white bread?

Reydituto · Post by **Reydituto** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:27 pm

http://dimemag.com/2014/07/report-suns- ... ne-ruined/

Not looking good to keep Bledsoe ...

thenewazcats · Post by **thenewazcats** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:31 pm

Suns can match any offer, so if they want him, they can keep him. I don't see Bledsoe going into next year at 3.7 mil but even if he does and then plays well enough to earn the max, something he hasn't done yet, the Suns can still offer him more money than another team. He's not happy about taking a perceived discount right now, so I don't see how that would change a year from now. Suns have all the leverage in this situation, and I like how McD is standing strong. It's the best part of a disappointing offseason, with the good value Thomas signing the exception.

I see this "ruined relationship" leak as a counter tactic by Bledsoe's agent to drive up offers that aren't there yet and probably aren't coming. If another team thought Bledsoe was worth the max, an offer would have been made already. McD played a good hand stating the Suns would match any offer. He may have even meant it. Regardless, that's business.

I'm not thrilled with the offseason but at least McD isn't signing bad contracts. Retaining flexibility is important. It sucks to play the waiting game but eventually a quality free agent will come to town and stay.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:41 am

Bledsoe is being a greedy bastard. Stellar numbers for one half of one season doesn't equate to a max contract and I'm glad the Suns aren't caving. I understand he has a high ceiling and people want as much money as possible, but 4/$48 is nothing to sneeze at. He's still set for life, guaranteed financial security, with the stroke of a pen. If he's so confident, there will be other large contracts after the 4 years as well.

Something will get done, whether S&T or Bledsoe signing extension, taking the QO would be pure insanity on his part. It really is just a standoff right now, dog days of summer, etc etc.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:06 am

He league is littered with young PGs that can get you 15-18 PPG and 4-6 APG. Most of them still have their menisci, so, he's not just competing with other FA. Lowry doesn't have Bledsoe's upside, but has health, and he pulled 4/48. Thomas doesn't have Bledsoe's physical gifts, but he has his skill set, and he pulled 4/28. Look at what Curry and Jennings got a few offseasons ago. The last PGs to get MAX were Paul, Wall, Westbrook, Rose. If Bledsoe thinks he's proven to be in their tier, somebody needs to schedule another surgery for the lad, this one to remove his head from his own ass.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:17 am

If I'm Bledsoe, I counter at 3/40. Still sets me up longterm, but gets me UFA one year earlier. Suns could frontload deal and set themselves up to maybe, just maybe be able to have Bledsoe, Dragic, and Thomas next three years. I actually don't think Dragic gets the max. For as great as he was, he is a walking doctors visit who'll be 30 this year and who can't defend. They typically don't get 4/68 or 5/85 type deals, no matter how impressive the 20-5 stats come.

So, let's say:

Bledsoe......18......11.......11
Dragic........8.5.....10......11.5.....12.5.....14
Thomas.......6.......6.5.......7........7.5

I think it could work for a year or two, then my guess is Bledsoe at the reason 12- per gets traded.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:39 am

I'm so over Bledsoe

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:29 pm

What's going on with this sudden play for Love, right at the curtain call?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:15 pm

Okay, Wyndhorst's inside sources say the TWolves won't consider the Suns' offer, and that the significance of this really is that the Suns are starting the move forward in splitting with Bledsoe.

wooha · Post by **wooha** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:28 pm

Starting to feel like Joe Johnson all over again

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:37 pm

wooha wrote:Starting to feel like Joe Johnson all over again

But Sarver low-balled Joe Johnson. In this case, the offer has context in the market. If Bledsoe doesn't like it, he can agree to a sign-and-trade or take the qualifying offer, if his agent is so sure that his health isn't a risk. Otherwise, what are the Suns supposed to do? Put the franchise at a long-term disadvantage by overpaying for the risk that nobody else wants to take instead of competing with other franchises that sign players of comparable value for the going rate?

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:01 pm

Everyone knew Bledsoe was going to ask for the max, but the problem is that his agent is maneuvering on his behalf. Considering the salary cap growth in the next few years, I would not be shocked to see Bledsoe take the qualifying offer and hit unrestricted free agency. He will surely get at least what the Suns are offering right now. That's the problem.

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