Sean Miller

[Merkin]

Seriously CSM, John Mayer?

[Olsondogg]

I'll answer for Puerco...it's mid major cause of no Final 4.


Which is shit btw. So sick of this, I mean, Lute...a HOF coach, got to one in his 7th year of coaching at Iowa, and his 4th year of coaching at Arizona, his 14th year of coaching overall. That's impressive and is great for us. He reached the Final 4 again 6 years after that...

It takes time to do things sometimes. Perhaps it's the "on demand" nature of society today, but the mantra that Miller "needs to get us to the Final 4" is bullshit. It will happen eventually as it does with every coach worth anything in CBB, and a few not worth anything.

Furthermore, once Miller gets Arizona to the Final 4, and god forbid LOSES that game, the focus inevitably changes to "Miller needs to get us a natty".

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

[Chicat]

That resume reads like that of an elite mid major. Unfortunately he's no longer at a mid-major program.

Uh, what?

I was going to say the same thing. Show me a mid major with a resume anywhere close to that...

And if you do find a mid-major with a resume like that, please tell me how many coaches they've had over the last ten years because they're definitely not going to be able to keep coaches who consistently get to the second weekend of the tourney.

[azgreg]

[Beachcat97]

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

CSM is one of the top 5 recruiters in the nation, and he's been to 2 straight regional finals. He is a fiery but classy guy, and his players love him. Hard to ask for much more.

[AZCatGirl]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html" target="_blank

Really good article about his weight loss.

[Bangkok Wildcat]

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

CSM is one of the top 5 recruiters in the nation, and he's been to 2 straight regional finals. He is a fiery but classy guy, and his players love him. Hard to ask for much more.

THIS! Exactly BC97.... Would also add a great and passionate coach as well as a great ambassador for UA Basketball. Enough said. BTFD.

[CBCat]

wearing red even back then!!

[azgreg]

wearing red even back then!!

It was a sign.

[dirtbags]

wasn't sure where to post this, so i thought i'd add it here since it's from the Miller coaching tree. fun read.

Xavier’s Basketball Newsletter Leaves Program Without Secrets

check out the newsletters here for some familiar looking coaching content

[rgdeuce]

Lmfao @ john mayer. Seriously, not a single coach likes rap (i know beastie boys fit the bill, but...)

[Spaceman Spiff]

I banned my wedding DJ from playing John Mayer. I love what Sean has done for Arizona, but John Mayer is embarassing. I choose to believe it's trolling.

[scumdevils86]

Only person I know that likes John Mayer is my 60 year old mother

[UAEebs86]

Amy probably makes him listen to Mayer.

[97cats]

Sean Miller is 12-0 in the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament when seeded six or better

[BearDown89]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

[ASUHATER!]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

Well when you spend the last couple years around tarc, Ristic, Anderson, Stanley Johnson, Ashley, Gordon... You're going to look small.

[Puerco]

I'll answer for Puerco...it's mid major cause of no Final 4.


Which is shit btw. So sick of this, I mean, Lute...a HOF coach, got to one in his 7th year of coaching at Iowa, and his 4th year of coaching at Arizona, his 14th year of coaching overall. That's impressive and is great for us. He reached the Final 4 again 6 years after that...

It takes time to do things sometimes. Perhaps it's the "on demand" nature of society today, but the mantra that Miller "needs to get us to the Final 4" is bullshit. It will happen eventually as it does with every coach worth anything in CBB, and a few not worth anything.

Furthermore, once Miller gets Arizona to the Final 4, and god forbid LOSES that game, the focus inevitably changes to "Miller needs to get us a natty".

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

Hey, Odogg. Instead of being a presumptuous asshole and answering your own question on my behalf, maybe you should let me answer the question myself? How's that sound? Nah, probably too difficult for you. But I'll answer anyway.

This:
Record vs Kenpom top 10: 2-7
Record vs Kenpom 11-30: 7-0
Record vs Kenpom 31-50: 1-1
Record vs Kenpom 51+: 7-0

Is not the record of an elite major program. Now, before you go getting all defensive, please remember that Sean Miller has been, in fact, the coach of an elite mid-major program for half his career. You know, I know, and every UA basketball fan knows that until recently he'd never lost to a lower seeded team, and we all know he's never been to the Final Four. His record above pretty much reads exactly like you would expect knowing those facts.

So, what would you expect from an elite mid-major coach? I'd expect him to dominate against the middle and lower seeded teams in the tourney. Miller? Check. I'd expect him to post a good record against the high but not top seeds in the tourney? Miller? Check, and then some. I'd also expect him to struggle beyond the Sweet Sixteen when you've narrowed the field down to the top 5-10 teams in the country. Miller? Check.

So what's your argument against that? Miller has a very, very good tournament record. He's beaten all but the very best of the best in the tournament, but do you think for one minute that Kensas or Kentucky fans would be happy about it? I don't. The record vs. Kenpom 1-10 is what needs to improve for Arizona to achieve its (and I dare say Miller's) goals. Argue if you like, but I can assure you that none of us (including Miller) are going to be satisfied until he hangs his first banner. He will do it some day, I have no doubt. I just hope it's in Tucson.

EDIT: and how on earth are you lumping me in with your mythical 'UA needs a better coach' crowd? I don't believe that. I've never said that, and quite frankly the only one who keeps banging on about it is you. I have literally never heard anyone on this site claiming any such thing. Except maybe Rise and Fire and even he says he likes Miller. So you're tilting at windmills as usual with your last sentence. But hey, keep on doing your thing: making crap up, trying to stifle conversation, and generally being a jerk. We're used to it.

[Puerco]

Sean Miller is 12-0 in the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament when seeded six or better

This is going to be his biggest test since arriving in Tucson. WSU is a tough out for a first round game, and Miami is not a happy draw for us. Pretty odd, though. If you look at 538's predictions, they have us at a 31% chance of making the Sweet Sixteen, which isn't great. But if you break down the match-ups it looks like they would have us favored in a game with Miami, which seems bizarre. That means they think we have a better chance of beating Miami than we do WSU...

Math nerds always confuse me.

[Spaceman Spiff]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

Well when you spend the last couple years around tarc, Ristic, Anderson, Stanley Johnson, Ashley, Gordon... You're going to look small.

Wasn't Brandon Ashley 6'2 too?

[Chicat]

Only person I know that likes John Mayer is my 60 year old mother

John Mayer is phenomenal when he plays the blues he was taught by Buddy Guy. The other 99.999% of the time he's a douchenozzle one step removed from Michael Bolton status.

Maybe CSM is into the 0.001% John Mayer...

[CalStateTempe]

I liked the CSM weight loss article.

[rgdeuce]

John Mayer is phenomenal when he plays the blues he was taught by Buddy Guy. The other 99.999% of the time he's a douchenozzle one step removed from Michael Bolton status.

Maybe CSM is into the 0.001% John Mayer...

I'm mostly rap, with older r&b/soul and classic rock to round me out, so you wont catch me with anything outside of that outside of a few albums... But his debut album was actually very very good. Got it as a "remembrance" gift from a brief summer fling and actually gave it a lot of spin. Lot of blues and folk influence with some neo-soul (before it became overdone) thrown in. Top to bottom, only one or two songs most people will skip, and I probably throw it on once a year and still enjoy it. Even my father, who is a "anything after 1985 sucks" music snob liked it. I remember buying his second album and trading it in within a week. I'm sure he still has flashes of his old self, but it was easy to see the direction he took once "Your body is a wonderland" got all the girls moist and he blew up. He's a talented dude.

[Olsondogg]

If this is true, and Mayer is Sean's (not Amy's) favorite...consider this. Wasn't he driving to a concert Mayer gave in PHX and did a U-turn cause Nick Johnson wanted to visit McKale?

[Olsondogg]

I'll answer for Puerco...it's mid major cause of no Final 4.


Which is shit btw. So sick of this, I mean, Lute...a HOF coach, got to one in his 7th year of coaching at Iowa, and his 4th year of coaching at Arizona, his 14th year of coaching overall. That's impressive and is great for us. He reached the Final 4 again 6 years after that...

It takes time to do things sometimes. Perhaps it's the "on demand" nature of society today, but the mantra that Miller "needs to get us to the Final 4" is bullshit. It will happen eventually as it does with every coach worth anything in CBB, and a few not worth anything.

Furthermore, once Miller gets Arizona to the Final 4, and god forbid LOSES that game, the focus inevitably changes to "Miller needs to get us a natty".

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

Hey, Odogg. Instead of being a presumptuous asshole and answering your own question on my behalf, maybe you should let me answer the question myself? How's that sound? Nah, probably too difficult for you. But I'll answer anyway.

This:
Record vs Kenpom top 10: 2-7
Record vs Kenpom 11-30: 7-0
Record vs Kenpom 31-50: 1-1
Record vs Kenpom 51+: 7-0

Is not the record of an elite major program. Now, before you go getting all defensive, please remember that Sean Miller has been, in fact, the coach of an elite mid-major program for half his career. You know, I know, and every UA basketball fan knows that until recently he'd never lost to a lower seeded team, and we all know he's never been to the Final Four. His record above pretty much reads exactly like you would expect knowing those facts.

So, what would you expect from an elite mid-major coach? I'd expect him to dominate against the middle and lower seeded teams in the tourney. Miller? Check. I'd expect him to post a good record against the high but not top seeds in the tourney? Miller? Check, and then some. I'd also expect him to struggle beyond the Sweet Sixteen when you've narrowed the field down to the top 5-10 teams in the country. Miller? Check.

So what's your argument against that? Miller has a very, very good tournament record. He's beaten all but the very best of the best in the tournament, but do you think for one minute that Kensas or Kentucky fans would be happy about it? I don't. The record vs. Kenpom 1-10 is what needs to improve for Arizona to achieve its (and I dare say Miller's) goals. Argue if you like, but I can assure you that none of us (including Miller) are going to be satisfied until he hangs his first banner. He will do it some day, I have no doubt. I just hope it's in Tucson.

EDIT: and how on earth are you lumping me in with your mythical 'UA needs a better coach' crowd? I don't believe that. I've never said that, and quite frankly the only one who keeps banging on about it is you. I have literally never heard anyone on this site claiming any such thing. Except maybe Rise and Fire and even he says he likes Miller. So you're tilting at windmills as usual with your last sentence. But hey, keep on doing your thing: making crap up, trying to stifle conversation, and generally being a jerk. We're used to it.

You are garbage. Posting stats from KenPom on a "down year" for a "program" and then chalking that up as program defining trends is idiotic. I'm not lumping you in with anything, except for the posters that post moronic things and then try to defend those moronic things.

Arizona is about as far from a mid-major program as you are from an intelligent poster.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Only person I know that likes John Mayer is my 60 year old mother

John Mayer is phenomenal when he plays the blues he was taught by Buddy Guy. The other 99.999% of the time he's a douchenozzle one step removed from Michael Bolton status.

Maybe CSM is into the 0.001% John Mayer...

Maybe being into John Mayer is why we have not broken into the Final Four yet. If he was into DMX, it's hard to imagine losing in the Elite Eight.

[Zero]

If this is true, and Mayer is Sean's (not Amy's) favorite...consider this. Wasn't he driving to a concert Mayer gave in PHX and did a U-turn cause Nick Johnson wanted to visit McKale?

Nick wanted to tell him he was committing in person at McKale.

[Bear Down Vegas]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

I didn't either until I met him two years ago. I was shocked he was a little taller than I am. I had thought for sure he was shorter.


Also - that weight loss article was really cool - thanks for that.

[Spaceman Spiff]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

I didn't either until I met him two years ago. I was shocked he was a little taller than I am. I had thought for sure he was shorter.

Also - that weight loss article was really cool - thanks for that.

My uncle met Steve Kerr when Kerr was still playing in the NBA. That was his first reaction, that you think he's small because of who surrounds him, then you meet him in person and realize 6'3 is a pretty big guy when there aren't a bunch of 6'10 guys surrounding him.

[scumdevils86]

John Mayer is phenomenal when he plays the blues he was taught by Buddy Guy. The other 99.999% of the time he's a douchenozzle one step removed from Michael Bolton status.

Maybe CSM is into the 0.001% John Mayer...

I'm mostly rap, with older r&b/soul and classic rock to round me out, so you wont catch me with anything outside of that outside of a few albums... But his debut album was actually very very good. Got it as a "remembrance" gift from a brief summer fling and actually gave it a lot of spin. Lot of blues and folk influence with some neo-soul (before it became overdone) thrown in. Top to bottom, only one or two songs most people will skip, and I probably throw it on once a year and still enjoy it. Even my father, who is a "anything after 1985 sucks" music snob liked it. I remember buying his second album and trading it in within a week. I'm sure he still has flashes of his old self, but it was easy to see the direction he took once "Your body is a wonderland" got all the girls moist and he blew up. He's a talented dude.

that's my dad. he literally won't give anything after 1986 a chance.

[rgdeuce]

Puero, don't be ridiculous. The tournament is such a crap shoot to begin with, and all things aren't equal. Sean Miller at Arizona is a perfect example. He is 2-4 at Arizona, but lets look at the below scenarios and see how his battle has been more uphill than a lot of others. Again, not all things are equal and for many teams, a lot of luck and help from "others" helps dictate deep runs and final fours. Kenpom rankings in parenthesis.

2015: Wisconsin (3) beat Arizona (2); Kentucky (1) beat Notre Dame (9); Michigan State (15) beat Louisville (16); (4) Duke beat Gonzaga (7). So conveniently, we draw by far the worst elite possible 8 match up compared to the winners. Only Kentucky, a 1 vs 2 matchup, would have been a worse draw than the #3 team. Look who the winners had to play compared to us...

2014: Wisconsin (6) beat Arizona (2); Florida (3) beat Dayton (38); UCONN (8) beat Michigan State (9); Kentucky (11) beat Michigan (10). Is this 2015 all over again? Again, only one possible worst case scenario, a 3 vs 2 matchup w Florida. But instead, Florida gets a team almost outside the top 40. The other two winners were equally matched, but again, per kenpom, more favorable matchups.

2013: Sweet 16 loss: Ohio State (7) beats Arizona (15). Out of the remaining teams we could have played in the sweet 16, only 5 were better that Ohio State per Kenpom, so essentially we were on the wrong side of 33% odds. It happens, but I see a pattern here of us not getting the breaks as so many others..

2011: Beat Duke (4) and Texas (6). UCONN (9) beats Arizona (23) in Elite 8. Name one other team in that tournament who played three kenpom 10 teams before the final 4 that year? Or the whole tournament period? The most I see is one up through after the elite 8 games (multiple teams). UCONN played a total of two the entire tournament (Kentucky and San Diego St), second to only us. Again, see a pattern here?

So yea, Miller is 2-4. That record is probably a lot different with some actual "breaks" and we probably have a few more banners hanging up.

[azcat34]

I'll answer for Puerco...it's mid major cause of no Final 4.


Which is shit btw. So sick of this, I mean, Lute...a HOF coach, got to one in his 7th year of coaching at Iowa, and his 4th year of coaching at Arizona, his 14th year of coaching overall. That's impressive and is great for us. He reached the Final 4 again 6 years after that...

It takes time to do things sometimes. Perhaps it's the "on demand" nature of society today, but the mantra that Miller "needs to get us to the Final 4" is bullshit. It will happen eventually as it does with every coach worth anything in CBB, and a few not worth anything.

Furthermore, once Miller gets Arizona to the Final 4, and god forbid LOSES that game, the focus inevitably changes to "Miller needs to get us a natty".

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

Hey, Odogg. Instead of being a presumptuous asshole and answering your own question on my behalf, maybe you should let me answer the question myself? How's that sound? Nah, probably too difficult for you. But I'll answer anyway.

This:
Record vs Kenpom top 10: 2-7
Record vs Kenpom 11-30: 7-0
Record vs Kenpom 31-50: 1-1
Record vs Kenpom 51+: 7-0

Is not the record of an elite major program. Now, before you go getting all defensive, please remember that Sean Miller has been, in fact, the coach of an elite mid-major program for half his career. You know, I know, and every UA basketball fan knows that until recently he'd never lost to a lower seeded team, and we all know he's never been to the Final Four. His record above pretty much reads exactly like you would expect knowing those facts.

So, what would you expect from an elite mid-major coach? I'd expect him to dominate against the middle and lower seeded teams in the tourney. Miller? Check. I'd expect him to post a good record against the high but not top seeds in the tourney? Miller? Check, and then some. I'd also expect him to struggle beyond the Sweet Sixteen when you've narrowed the field down to the top 5-10 teams in the country. Miller? Check.

So what's your argument against that? Miller has a very, very good tournament record. He's beaten all but the very best of the best in the tournament, but do you think for one minute that Kensas or Kentucky fans would be happy about it? I don't. The record vs. Kenpom 1-10 is what needs to improve for Arizona to achieve its (and I dare say Miller's) goals. Argue if you like, but I can assure you that none of us (including Miller) are going to be satisfied until he hangs his first banner. He will do it some day, I have no doubt. I just hope it's in Tucson.

EDIT: and how on earth are you lumping me in with your mythical 'UA needs a better coach' crowd? I don't believe that. I've never said that, and quite frankly the only one who keeps banging on about it is you. I have literally never heard anyone on this site claiming any such thing. Except maybe Rise and Fire and even he says he likes Miller. So you're tilting at windmills as usual with your last sentence. But hey, keep on doing your thing: making crap up, trying to stifle conversation, and generally being a jerk. We're used to it.

This is mind boggling stupid, most mid-major coaches would be happy to just participate in 25 NCAA Tournament games for their entire career.

Please show me comparables to Miller's record in the mid-major ranks to this type of tournament performance, guaranteed you will never, ever find one.

Miller has been a GREAT tournament coach and the fact he hasn't made the Final 4 yet in his coaching career is a complete statistical anomaly. Don't let it cloud your overall judgement.

[Chicat]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

I didn't either until I met him two years ago. I was shocked he was a little taller than I am. I had thought for sure he was shorter.

Also - that weight loss article was really cool - thanks for that.

My uncle met Steve Kerr when Kerr was still playing in the NBA. That was his first reaction, that you think he's small because of who surrounds him, then you meet him in person and realize 6'3 is a pretty big guy when there aren't a bunch of 6'10 guys surrounding him.

I was at the urinal next to Jason Kidd at the Blackhawks game on Monday night. Couldn't believe how tall he was, and that he wasn't in a suite. Also couldn't understand why he was dressed like he was homeless.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Puero, don't be ridiculous. The tournament is such a crap shoot to begin with, and all things aren't equal. Sean Miller at Arizona is a perfect example. He is 2-4 at Arizona, but lets look at the below scenarios and see how his battle has been more uphill than a lot of others. Again, not all things are equal and for many teams, a lot of luck and help from "others" helps dictate deep runs and final fours. Kenpom rankings in parenthesis.

2015: Wisconsin (3) beat Arizona (2); Kentucky (1) beat Notre Dame (9); Michigan State (15) beat Louisville (16); (4) Duke beat Gonzaga (7). So conveniently, we draw by far the worst elite possible 8 match up compared to the winners. Only Kentucky, a 1 vs 2 matchup, would have been a worse draw than the #3 team. Look who the winners had to play compared to us...

2014: Wisconsin (6) beat Arizona (2); Florida (3) beat Dayton (38); UCONN (8) beat Michigan State (9); Kentucky (11) beat Michigan (10). Is this 2015 all over again? Again, only one possible worst case scenario, a 3 vs 2 matchup w Florida. But instead, Florida gets a team almost outside the top 40. The other two winners were equally matched, but again, per kenpom, more favorable matchups.

2013: Sweet 16 loss: Ohio State (7) beats Arizona (15). Out of the remaining teams we could have played in the sweet 16, only 5 were better that Ohio State per Kenpom, so essentially we were on the wrong side of 33% odds. It happens, but I see a pattern here of us not getting the breaks as so many others..

2011: Beat Duke (4) and Texas (6). UCONN (9) beats Arizona (23) in Elite 8. Name one other team in that tournament who played three kenpom 10 teams before the final 4 that year? Or the whole tournament period? The most I see is one up through after the elite 8 games (multiple teams). UCONN played a total of two the entire tournament (Kentucky and San Diego St), second to only us. Again, see a pattern here?

So yea, Miller is 2-4. That record is probably a lot different with some actual "breaks" and we probably have a few more banners hanging up.

This is a high quality, informative post. We have just not had breaks. Even within those games, we caught a UConn team on a crazy hot streak, got the best game of Kaminsky's career to that point and then Wisky had the best offensive half in NCAA tournament history.

It is not all controllable, and the NCAA tourney is as unpredictable as it gets in terms of outcome.

[azcat49]

So I just want to know is, when do we get some f ING breaks. Certainly not this year as WSU is like top 14 in Kenpom and we play them in the first round

[Olsondogg]

http://www.campusrush.com/sean-miller-a ... 92834.html

Really good article about his weight loss.

I had no idea he was 6'2".

I didn't either until I met him two years ago. I was shocked he was a little taller than I am. I had thought for sure he was shorter.

Also - that weight loss article was really cool - thanks for that.

My uncle met Steve Kerr when Kerr was still playing in the NBA. That was his first reaction, that you think he's small because of who surrounds him, then you meet him in person and realize 6'3 is a pretty big guy when there aren't a bunch of 6'10 guys surrounding him.

I was at the urinal next to Jason Kidd at the Blackhawks game on Monday night. Couldn't believe how tall he was, and that he wasn't in a suite. Also couldn't understand why he was dressed like he was homeless.

Possibly because he was homeless.

[thenewazcats]

I dont post often but in my experience Puerco has been a solid poster with intelligent commentary. It is worth the time to hear what he is trying to say. I hear elite mid major coach and immediately think of Mark Few:

vs Kenpom top 10 in the tournament: 0-8

vs Kenpom 11-20: 1-5

vs Kenpom 21+: 13-1

Miller actually has won only one game in the 11-20 range, just like Few. Miller has had more success and typically advances further than Gonzaga. He has also faced all but two of his top 10 opponents beyond the second round. Few has actually had the disadvantage of working AT a mid major, so his seeding and tournament path has suffered.

Miller's resume looks great, hence Puerco's use of "elite" when linking the look of his resume to that of a coach at a mid major, but he has work to do, and I don't think any of us doubt that he is on his way.

I also believe that enough of the games versus top 10 teams were very close and could have gone the other way. But once a game is in the books, it is in the books. Miller's resume may be deceiving but it is what it is until he gets that much deserved breakthrough.

The reason I begin putting those numbers together was to illustrate the fact that despite an inconsistent season with what were probably predictable results, there is still some serious hope for Arizona to make some noise in this tournament.

[Chicat]

I was at the urinal next to Jason Kidd at the Blackhawks game on Monday night. Couldn't believe how tall he was, and that he wasn't in a suite. Also couldn't understand why he was dressed like he was homeless.

Possibly because he was homeless.

Damn, never thought of that...

[Beachcat97]

Enough freaking analyses of what CSM has done or hasn't done. He's a great coach, but history will judge him, in large part, by his tourney performance, and in particular his FF appearances. He doesn't want to be sitting at the same table as Gene Keady and John Cheney.

[cats101]

I'll answer for Puerco...it's mid major cause of no Final 4.


Which is shit btw. So sick of this, I mean, Lute...a HOF coach, got to one in his 7th year of coaching at Iowa, and his 4th year of coaching at Arizona, his 14th year of coaching overall. That's impressive and is great for us. He reached the Final 4 again 6 years after that...

It takes time to do things sometimes. Perhaps it's the "on demand" nature of society today, but the mantra that Miller "needs to get us to the Final 4" is bullshit. It will happen eventually as it does with every coach worth anything in CBB, and a few not worth anything.

Furthermore, once Miller gets Arizona to the Final 4, and god forbid LOSES that game, the focus inevitably changes to "Miller needs to get us a natty".

I remember the years after Lute. I remember the circus it took to get Miller into Tucson. I may be a homer, but I don't kid myself that Arizona can do better than the coach they have.

Hey, Odogg. Instead of being a presumptuous asshole and answering your own question on my behalf, maybe you should let me answer the question myself? How's that sound? Nah, probably too difficult for you. But I'll answer anyway.

This:
Record vs Kenpom top 10: 2-7
Record vs Kenpom 11-30: 7-0
Record vs Kenpom 31-50: 1-1
Record vs Kenpom 51+: 7-0

Is not the record of an elite major program. Now, before you go getting all defensive, please remember that Sean Miller has been, in fact, the coach of an elite mid-major program for half his career. You know, I know, and every UA basketball fan knows that until recently he'd never lost to a lower seeded team, and we all know he's never been to the Final Four. His record above pretty much reads exactly like you would expect knowing those facts.

So, what would you expect from an elite mid-major coach? I'd expect him to dominate against the middle and lower seeded teams in the tourney. Miller? Check. I'd expect him to post a good record against the high but not top seeds in the tourney? Miller? Check, and then some. I'd also expect him to struggle beyond the Sweet Sixteen when you've narrowed the field down to the top 5-10 teams in the country. Miller? Check.

So what's your argument against that? Miller has a very, very good tournament record. He's beaten all but the very best of the best in the tournament, but do you think for one minute that Kensas or Kentucky fans would be happy about it? I don't. The record vs. Kenpom 1-10 is what needs to improve for Arizona to achieve its (and I dare say Miller's) goals. Argue if you like, but I can assure you that none of us (including Miller) are going to be satisfied until he hangs his first banner. He will do it some day, I have no doubt. I just hope it's in Tucson.

EDIT: and how on earth are you lumping me in with your mythical 'UA needs a better coach' crowd? I don't believe that. I've never said that, and quite frankly the only one who keeps banging on about it is you. I have literally never heard anyone on this site claiming any such thing. Except maybe Rise and Fire and even he says he likes Miller. So you're tilting at windmills as usual with your last sentence. But hey, keep on doing your thing: making crap up, trying to stifle conversation, and generally being a jerk. We're used to it.

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. IMO and before the "then who should we hire!! fire Miller!!" crowd jumps up in arms, Miller up to this point at Arizona is a coach that hasn't really overachieved, hasn't really underachieve, he performs kinda to what you expect. By expect, I mean pre-season forecast and talent that he recruits. The record above and his tournament record falls in line with that narrative.

We'll see what happens in the tournament this year.

[EVCat]

but the "performs up to expectations" are the expectations he helped set.

We were a crater in 2010. If he had built slowly, we would be saying "wow...so glad coach Miller got us back to making the tournament."

Instead he got to an Elite Eight in 2 years, and 3 in 5 years. The expectations were set by his program overachieving early. In 2014, we were down a big piece. The only year I think we might have failed to hit the mark was last year. Otherwise, 2011 overachieved, 2013 was probably where it should have been but a big shot from another overachieving Elite Eight, 2014 was just about right after losing Brandon and having to play AG out of position, and last year was a coin flip game that we lost.

But the fact that the program is where it is so quickly is, to me, overachievement. Yeah, Miller has room to grow. He is still young, and has a lot of room for improvement. I also think the fanbase making this magical one more game into a holy grail is creation of a false achievement...winning 3 games in the NCAA is an achievement in itself. I get the Final Four is the marketing piece, but that is not indicative of some kind of special achievement...it is one more win.

So he is damned by his own level of achievement. Like Lute losing so often in the first round, discounting that he created a program that lost in the first round on their worst year, rather than missing the tournament altogether. 1992 and 1993 aside, were any of the first round losses shocking? Or were we overseeded for what we had?

Miller took a disaster and fixed it immediately. And has gotten to the Elite Eight 3 times in 5 years. And with 2011 came increased expectations of the return of Arizona. It created a false narrative that almost bit us when Miller started reaching on talented knuckleheads. I don't see a single year where we lost a game we clearly should have won, but I have seen us win when we weren't expected to. And that early success led to a level of expectation/seeding where you can't really exceed expectations...you can only fail or meet them. I have no problems with anything our program has done in the last 5 years, and am amazed at how many of our fans forget just how close we were to total irrelevance...

[prh]

Let's not forget how many places don't perform to expectations. How many times has Kansas been to the second weekend recently? You guys remember Duke 2 years ago? Probably not, since they were the very first team eliminated from the tourney. The "elite" programs have early flameouts, and we haven't. Yes, I would take a Santa Clara one year if it got a FF the next, but we shouldn't be complaining that his current record is expected and he needs more.

[Spaceman Spiff]

but the "performs up to expectations" are the expectations he helped set.

We were a crater in 2010. If he had built slowly, we would be saying "wow...so glad coach Miller got us back to making the tournament."

Instead he got to an Elite Eight in 2 years, and 3 in 5 years. The expectations were set by his program overachieving early. In 2014, we were down a big piece. The only year I think we might have failed to hit the mark was last year. Otherwise, 2011 overachieved, 2013 was probably where it should have been but a big shot from another overachieving Elite Eight, 2014 was just about right after losing Brandon and having to play AG out of position, and last year was a coin flip game that we lost.

But the fact that the program is where it is so quickly is, to me, overachievement. Yeah, Miller has room to grow. He is still young, and has a lot of room for improvement. I also think the fanbase making this magical one more game into a holy grail is creation of a false achievement...winning 3 games in the NCAA is an achievement in itself. I get the Final Four is the marketing piece, but that is not indicative of some kind of special achievement...it is one more win.

So he is damned by his own level of achievement. Like Lute losing so often in the first round, discounting that he created a program that lost in the first round on their worst year, rather than missing the tournament altogether. 1992 and 1993 aside, were any of the first round losses shocking? Or were we overseeded for what we had?

Miller took a disaster and fixed it immediately. And has gotten to the Elite Eight 3 times in 5 years. And with 2011 came increased expectations of the return of Arizona. It created a false narrative that almost bit us when Miller started reaching on talented knuckleheads. I don't see a single year where we lost a game we clearly should have won, but I have seen us win when we weren't expected to. And that early success led to a level of expectation/seeding where you can't really exceed expectations...you can only fail or meet them. I have no problems with anything our program has done in the last 5 years, and am amazed at how many of our fans forget just how close we were to total irrelevance...

This, a thousand times this. When Miller took over, if you told me he'd have 3 Elite Eights in his first 6 years, I would have peed my pants in happiness. Arizona was pretty much Nic Wise, Kyle Fogg, Jamelle Horne and zero recruits in the pipeline.

He resurrected a dying program but has not broken through to that Final step. That's it. In six years, he has done all we could ever dream of except for two things. Yes, we care about those two things, but compare them to the million other things where he's exceeded expectations.

[HiCat]

"We're in for one heckuva battle ...

http://www.kansas.com/sports/article66508832.html" target="_blank

[CBCat]

"We're in for one heckuva battle ...

http://www.kansas.com/sports/article66508832.html" target="_blank

Anybody have a link to CSM and players full presser in Providence?

[84Cat]

"We're in for one heckuva battle ...

http://www.kansas.com/sports/article66508832.html" target="_blank

Anybody have a link to CSM and players full presser in Providence?

This is all I've seen

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqG1fY ... OHMU1Pdizg" target="_blank

[Puerco]

I dont post often but in my experience Puerco has been a solid poster with intelligent commentary. It is worth the time to hear what he is trying to say. I hear elite mid major coach and immediately think of Mark Few:

vs Kenpom top 10 in the tournament: 0-8

vs Kenpom 11-20: 1-5

vs Kenpom 21+: 13-1

Miller actually has won only one game in the 11-20 range, just like Few. Miller has had more success and typically advances further than Gonzaga. He has also faced all but two of his top 10 opponents beyond the second round. Few has actually had the disadvantage of working AT a mid major, so his seeding and tournament path has suffered.

Miller's resume looks great, hence Puerco's use of "elite" when linking the look of his resume to that of a coach at a mid major, but he has work to do, and I don't think any of us doubt that he is on his way.

I also believe that enough of the games versus top 10 teams were very close and could have gone the other way. But once a game is in the books, it is in the books. Miller's resume may be deceiving but it is what it is until he gets that much deserved breakthrough.

The reason I begin putting those numbers together was to illustrate the fact that despite an inconsistent season with what were probably predictable results, there is still some serious hope for Arizona to make some noise in this tournament.

Exactly my point. Where do you get the stats? I hunted all over for them and couldn't find anything similar. For the record, when I thought of elite mid-major coach, I was thinking Brad Stevens minus the Final Fours. Few actually has a worse overall record (glaringly so against KP11-30), but his record against the top and bottom looks similar.

RGD, I understand there are aberrations in Miller's record during his time at Arizona. I am referring to his entire career, and if you want to use his time at Arizona to back up your premise the Miller is an elite coach I'm not going to argue. I think it's pretty clear that I wouldn't want anyone else as our coach. His record against top teams while at Arizona isn't what we all would like, but it's simply too small of a sample size to make any proclamations.

EV, qualitatively I don't think you could legitimately argue that Miller hasn't rebuilt Arizona from a dumpster fire into one of the top 5-6 programs in the country in a pretty short time. We should be ecstatic about what he's accomplished in the grand scheme of things.

ac34, I mentioned Brad Stevens as my example of an elite midmajor coach. I think it stands, although over a shorter time period and with greater high end success.

OD, do you even read my posts, or do you just make up your own little mind about what I'm saying and then step off the deep end? I think you need to take a rest or drink a beer or get laid, because -- forgive me -- you're a f_cking idiot this week. I posted Miller's all time coaching record in the tournament vs. the different Kenpom ranked teams which was lifted from thenewazcats original post. It literally has zero to do with this year's 'down' team because we haven't played in the tournament yet. Now, do you just want to give up, or do you want to hunt around for a new, more rational reason for being a d_ck about my post? I'd suggest just shutting up if I were you. You don't even need to apologize for making sh_t up. I forgive you.

[Chicat]

Thank you Sean Miller and staff...

[rgdeuce]

but the "performs up to expectations" are the expectations he helped set.

We were a crater in 2010. If he had built slowly, we would be saying "wow...so glad coach Miller got us back to making the tournament."

Instead he got to an Elite Eight in 2 years, and 3 in 5 years. The expectations were set by his program overachieving early. In 2014, we were down a big piece. The only year I think we might have failed to hit the mark was last year. Otherwise, 2011 overachieved, 2013 was probably where it should have been but a big shot from another overachieving Elite Eight, 2014 was just about right after losing Brandon and having to play AG out of position, and last year was a coin flip game that we lost.

But the fact that the program is where it is so quickly is, to me, overachievement. Yeah, Miller has room to grow. He is still young, and has a lot of room for improvement. I also think the fanbase making this magical one more game into a holy grail is creation of a false achievement...winning 3 games in the NCAA is an achievement in itself. I get the Final Four is the marketing piece, but that is not indicative of some kind of special achievement...it is one more win.

So he is damned by his own level of achievement. Like Lute losing so often in the first round, discounting that he created a program that lost in the first round on their worst year, rather than missing the tournament altogether. 1992 and 1993 aside, were any of the first round losses shocking? Or were we overseeded for what we had?

Miller took a disaster and fixed it immediately. And has gotten to the Elite Eight 3 times in 5 years. And with 2011 came increased expectations of the return of Arizona. It created a false narrative that almost bit us when Miller started reaching on talented knuckleheads. I don't see a single year where we lost a game we clearly should have won, but I have seen us win when we weren't expected to. And that early success led to a level of expectation/seeding where you can't really exceed expectations...you can only fail or meet them. I have no problems with anything our program has done in the last 5 years, and am amazed at how many of our fans forget just how close we were to total irrelevance...

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! Thank you.

And again, when people try to hold Miller in negative light because he doesn't get to a final four, it completely ignores everything in my previous post and what Spliff added on. "He cant win the big game." Total BS. A 2 vs 3 kenpom matchup, that should be what you see in a final four or national championship, not in a regional final game. Add the fact that Kaminsky had an all-time game, and it still came down to a BS call and still after that, the last shot. The next year was a 2 vs 6, which is easier to swallow, but again, Dekker and company were unconscious, there was nothing any team was doing in that second half to stop that, sometimes it is just "their" night. And again, after beating two kenpom top 10s in 2011, as kenmpom 23, we have to run into a third. You know how hard it is to win three straight games against top 10 teams? And of course the third one was on an absolute roll and went on to win it all, the refs basically took our best player out of the first half with foul trouble, and Kemba Walker was out of control. All that and we missed a game winner at the end.

There needs to be some effing perspective here. We cant expect everyone else in the country to see all this, they are going to see purely the negative because that is how fans elsewhere work. But at least on our own boards, we should be able to take a step back and see the big picture. Yes, eventually he needs to defy the odds or win when the deck is stacked against him, and he will. But there are a lot of coaches with banners hanging in their arenas who had the golden path, or got the big break because a Northern Iowa had a hot night from 3 and upset the number 2 wisconsin team we would otherwise face in the elite 8.

[Puerco]

RG, who are you arguing with? No one here has a different opinion.