Sean Miller

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:24 am

We need to start running the high pick and fade with Trier and Markannen. That will get good shots.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:26 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:We need to start running the high pick and fade with Trier and Markannen. That will get good shots.

Seriously. I don't know if I've seen that play EVER done...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:34 am

Olsondogg wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:We need to start running the high pick and fade with Trier and Markannen. That will get good shots.
Seriously. I don't know if I've seen that play EVER done...

Right? Miller hasn't even run it once this year. Just like 2-3 zone.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:37 am

Olsondogg wrote:Are people really still worried about how the fucking offense looks? At this point, if you want a run and gun team then you are watching the wrong program under the wrong coach.

I mean, it's been several years. It is what it is...go watch UW or uCla if you want a free flowing offense and a lack of defense. Also brace for some losses in that system.

I trust Miller to set up the whole team, he has a gift, I personally do not care what offense we run as long as we win by at least 1 point...which is all we ever need...just one point.

(Unless we are playing one of the East coast NBA wannabe d-league teams for dook or Calimari...then we need like 100)

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:38 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:We need to start running the high pick and fade with Trier and Markannen. That will get good shots.
Seriously. I don't know if I've seen that play EVER done...
Right? Miller hasn't even run it once this year. Just like 2-3 zone.

It's CLEAR(ed) that I've never seen that beFOUR...

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:58 am

Lauri and PJC ran the high pick and roll repeatedly against CSUB to put that one away. They ran it a couple of times last night as well.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:09 am

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:17 am

gumby wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
gumby wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:The real question is, has anyone ever been happy with a PG under Miller? I mean, in hindsight (which is always clear of course) everyone loves TJ, but they didn't during his playing days. Even in his senior year OOC, people were questioning him and his abilities.

Before him it was Lyons, and Josiah Turner (remember the acclaim on TOS about his arrival...I do)...before that Momo Jones...

PJC is what he is. Did he have a bad year last year? Absolutely. I don't fault Miller for putting his faith in PJC based on how he sees him perform daily. People act like good/great PG's grow on trees and are available wherever and whenever...yet probably couldn't name more than a couple.

To talk on Gumby's second topic. Yes. Every year needs a whipping boy. PJC and Ristic are the frontrunners for this job this year. I predict both will have better years than what most on here are expecting.
Miller hasn't been able to consistently recruit the position. T.J. was the exception.
This statement doesn't actually make any sense. He wasn't consistently recruiting...but along came TJ and then he was?

Also based on what metric of success? Getting to the NBA? Getting to an Elite 8? Cause the team with Momo at point did that.

I just don't understand what metric of success people are looking for. People want players to be the best at their position in the nation at every position? POY's for everyone? People want regular season success so that the season is enjoyable? People want players to be in the NBA, and then successful in the NBA?

Or all of it. People want players who are the best at their position, best in the league, leading to dominance in the NCAA and then dominance in the NBA. And in the end, Miller is responsible for all that cause he watches these players in HS and should convince them to come, and convince them to perform the way that we all expect them to.

Got it.
"Consistent" means just that. Not understanding the confusion.

My statement was a simple one that others subsequently affirmed. If you rank our PGs over the last 30 years, the Miller ones -- other than TJ -- sink to the bottom. That doesn't strike me as consistently recruiting the position well. Certainly not compared with other positions. Some of the PGs who rank higher had some painful performances as underclassmen. So it's too soon to close the book on Parker.

If you think Momo qualifies as a hit at PG, then we simply disagree. Same with Lyons (a needed stopgap, but not a point guard). Pretty sure Momo drove Miller crazy as it relates to the fundamentals of playing the point. We got to an EE, but he didn't stay. I don't think Miller was all that concerned that he left.

As to whether it was lesson learned after Turner, maybe he is taking the approach that this is the one position where you explore players who are further down the high-school ratings, knowing that is the rare player who gets it right away at PG (Mike Bibby, for instance, being an outlier). What I don't see is fans adopting the requisite patience. Hence, I see a disconnect and over-the-top criticism of the current occupant of the position.

Good thread, guys. A lot to think about.

We're all wondering why can't we consistently recruit elite PGs like Lute did (Kerr, Reeves, Stoud, Bibby, Terry, Gardner). Well, ask what elite PGs out there honestly want to focus on defense over offense? PG are by definition offensive-minded. They set up the offense, control it, reset it, and direct it. They run the break. Sure defense is part of the game and being a team player is important, but an elite PG expects/wants the keys to a Ferrari offense where they have opportunities to make a lot of plays. Under Miller, everything outward about the program still screams Ferrari / Elite / Premier on paper. 1st class all the way.

What do you suppose comes to mind when an elite PG watches our offense?:
a) Ferrari
b) Miata
c) Dodge Caravan with spinner wheels

Get used to not having elite PGs

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:28 am

What do you suppose comes to mind when someone sees you post?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:54 am

Elite PG's demand to play in a 2-3 zone.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:58 am

Olsondogg wrote:What do you suppose comes to mind when someone sees you post?

A Yugo

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:59 am

Oh, and just one other tidbit on how bad that R+F post is.

We were 17th nationally in ppg last year. Other than that, we have a pathetic, punchless offense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... 2016-04-05" target="_blank

But it was a one year thing! Except we were 18th the year before.

prh · Post by **prh** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:29 pm

Kerr would have been a lower rated recruit than every PG Miller has brought in.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:44 pm

Olsondogg wrote:What do you suppose comes to mind when someone sees you post?

Dodge Stratus.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:45 pm

prh wrote:Kerr would have been a lower rated recruit than every PG Miller has brought in.

Wasn't Kerr's only other offer LBSU?

Believe even Lute said he wouldn't have taken Kerr just a few years later but needed a body.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:45 pm

Good job selecting Parker at the point last night, coach.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:48 pm

Merkin wrote:
prh wrote:Kerr would have been a lower rated recruit than every PG Miller has brought in.

Wasn't Kerr's only other offer LBSU?

Believe even Lute said he wouldn't have taken Kerr just a few years later but needed a body.

And wasn't the point guard until he was an upperclassman. Brunkhorst before that.

JT wasn't the point until he was a senior. Same with Geary.

Damon toiled behind Othick. Blossomed the final two years.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:54 pm

RiseandFail's point also pretends that "defense wins championships" was a concept conceived by Miller and completely foreign to Lute, and that more than one guy on his list were great college defenders. RiseandFail is the dumbest know-it-all I have ever encountered on the internet or in real life. Not exaggerating.

edit: Did he delete his post?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:58 pm

rgdeuce wrote:RiseandFail's point also pretends that "defense wins championships" was a concept conceived by Miller and completely foreign to Lute, and that more than one guy on his list were great college defenders. RiseandFail is the dumbest know-it-all I have ever encountered on the internet or in real life. Not exaggerating.

edit: Did he delete his post?

The one about not being able to recruit elite PG's is still there in all its glory.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:29 pm

Why do we pay attention to trolls, people who insult us, TOS that most people here seem to hate? The more they are given attention is just the more reward they are looking for IMHO.

Moving on.....I am looking forward to getting a stud PG as well as breaking the FF ceiling....not in that order though. BTFD.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:31 am

Olsondogg wrote:Are people really still worried about how the fucking offense looks? At this point, if you want a run and gun team then you are watching the wrong program under the wrong coach.

I mean, it's been several years. It is what it is...go watch UW or uCla if you want a free flowing offense and a lack of defense. Also brace for some losses in that system.

Where'd you come up with that idea?

One post theorizing that we were subconsciously mimicking our opponents on offense?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:48 pm

rgdeuce wrote:... "defense wins championships" was a concept ...completely foreign to Lute,

Just to nit pick, because that is what we do...

...Lute's 1980's and mostly 1990's teams were generally very good defensive teams, most notably FG% against. The 2001 team was very good defensively, but there was a real difference after Lute started winning big with the guards. But those UA/Stanford matchups in the 80's and early 90's often were between top 10 national defensive teams. We did get out and run, and maybe possessions were up a bit, but as Lakers fans from the 80's will tell you right away, you cannot run and gun if you don't defend and rebound.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:02 pm

Miller compares signee Ira Lee to Rondae, says he has 'incredibly high motor'

http://tucson.com/online/video/watch-mi ... 3ded6.html" target="_blank

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:18 pm

HiCat wrote:Miller compares signee Ira Lee to Rondae, says he has 'incredibly high motor'

http://tucson.com/online/video/watch-mi ... 3ded6.html" target="_blank

I like a high motor. I like the name Ira. I'm sold!

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:30 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
HiCat wrote:Miller compares signee Ira Lee to Rondae, says he has 'incredibly high motor'

http://tucson.com/online/video/watch-mi ... 3ded6.html" target="_blank
I like a high motor. I like the name Ira. I'm sold!

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:03 pm

Olsondogg wrote:What do you suppose comes to mind when someone sees you post?

Pontiac Aztek

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:45 pm

Olsondogg wrote:What do you suppose comes to mind when someone sees you post?

I assume they're wondering what I look like while eating turkey doused in hot sauce while mostly nude.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:21 am

Turkey doused in hot sauce, or...?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:05 am

Puerco wrote:Turkey doused in hot sauce, or...?

It's your mental picture.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:07 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Puerco wrote:Turkey doused in hot sauce, or...?
It's your mental picture.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:35 pm

Miller just got punked by Butler's coach when the Butler coach switched to zone D in the last couple minutes of that game. Amazing to see a coach have another tool to pull out at the right time and use it so successfully. Highlights one of the issues I've long had with Miller (no, I'm not starting up an argument, just saying).

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:39 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:Miller just got punked by Butler's coach when the Butler coach

Agree

Well never make a final four unless the stars lineup in our favor

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:41 pm

So many things to say tonight, but if Miller seriously drew up a contested Kobi Simmons 3 on that final possession.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:44 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:So many things to say tonight, but if Miller seriously drew up a contested Kobi Simmons 3 on that final possession.

Kobi messed up that execution. He didn't fade off the pick open and panicked up a forced shot. There was still enough time to go to the rim to try for an and one, but he just froze and held it. It was a freshman move all the way.

I'm mad, so I won't argue the zone issue right now.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:09 pm

I fucking love this guy...

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:30 pm

Chicat wrote:I fucking love this guy...

YES! The "full speed cross body lunge" as a way to draw an offensive foul and the "post head snap fake" were classic...and I get the feeling he ain't just whistling dixie, expect us to play Duke ball for a while and blame the fucking refs for ruining the game.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:25 pm

Nick Johnson was accomplished at throwing the head back when meeting a hedging big man. So, more of that, I guess.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:44 pm

Solid defense is always penalized and inferior defense with flops and gimmicks as crutches is always rewarded. It is frustrating as hell.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:52 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Solid defense is always penalized and inferior defense with flops and gimmicks as crutches is always rewarded. It is frustrating as hell.

There's only so much a defender can do. I remember an announcer using the word bail-out. That what a lot of this is. Players who wind up throwing the ball over the backboard because they aren't actually trying to score.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:05 pm

Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:39 pm

Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.

That's a smart comment!!! We are down 5 scholarship players right now!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:52 pm

3goggles wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
That's a smart comment!!! We are down 5 scholarship players right now!

I know.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:17 pm

Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.

huh

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:35 pm

Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.

How many 5 stars do you need to make a damn final four

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:42 pm

I love CSM. You guys are nuts. I do believe that he needs more than the packline to change up the flow of the game at times. Lute took a while before he starting playing more than just man also. Sean is still one of the best young coaches in America.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:43 pm

All I can say is I really, really want a second chance at Gonzaga in March with a healthy PJC (eligible Trier would be nice too). We did not play great and you could tell the lack of depth and Allen at PG hurt us a lot.

I think if we play them again we will win

michcat · Post by **michcat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:47 pm

My only problem with coaching in this game is that they never really tried doubling the post and it killed them all game.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:49 pm

michcat wrote:My only problem with coaching in this game is that they never really tried doubling the post and it killed them all game.

Agree, he really needs to change up the d when needed!

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:53 pm

Sean Miller needs to find a way to have two actual point guards on every team from this point forward.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:56 pm

Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.

One thing I can say is that the program certainly seems snakebit under his watch. Ashley in 2014, a Wisconsin who couldn't miss if it tried in 2015, Ray smith in 2016, Trier, Smith, Parker, and every thing else this year.

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