Sean Miller

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:57 pm

gumby wrote:Miller better get this starting lineup right. Only 23 point favorites at the moment.

Utah, minus 2!

If somebody gave you $500 for each game and you weren't allowed to save it or use it any other way, how would you bet on both of those?

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:01 pm

Cats, for sure.

Dillon Brooks a game-time decision ... uh ... gimme the Utes.

Definitely would not use my own money.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:18 pm

Gawd, I would be a terrible gambler.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:32 pm

Miller presser
note: at 2:14 his comments on Lauri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnuybZn8MOI" target="_blank

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:47 pm

HiCat wrote:Miller presser
note: at 2:14 his comments on Lauri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnuybZn8MOI" target="_blank

Yeah, saw this last night thanks HiCat....wow, that's impressive praise from CSM....but certainly meets the eye test so far. The Iceman is absolutely lethal.....so lucky to have him on this team......too bad the NBA doesn't increase their minimum age....2 years of college minimum would be so nice....can you imagine Lauri as a sophomore? Wow.

Oh well, let's enjoy the hell out of him now.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:17 pm

cpt · Post by **cpt** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:19 pm

He lost his shit with about a minute left. It was right after Trier went one-on-one to the hole. What was that about?

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:36 pm

cpt wrote:He lost his shit with about a minute left. It was right after Trier went one-on-one to the hole. What was that about?

Yeah, and a lot of it looked like he was directing at Trier.

Not sure what he did but he talked a lot about all of the second chance points we gave up today, which is very unusual for this team.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:01 pm

Left 12 seconds on the shot clock? I dunno, I cant get really get mad at a very makeable layup attempt in that situation, has to be something else. Was the meltdown in the second half when they were standing around on that zone on TV? He looked like he was going to kill someone, maddest ive seen him all year

Hank of sb · Post by **Hank of sb** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:24 pm

It seemed like a lack a lackadaisical weekend with the crowd never much into either game. The team's play, with the exception of the remarkable Kadeem Allen, was disjointed and uninspiring.

One might understand Miller's frustration.

However, it seems like Miller--in this instance of pique-- is/may be going to the whip too early. At least for me.

Yes, the team needs to stay focused.

Still, I hope Miller's words in Las Vegas, and in Sacramento need not to sound stale. (What's he going to say differently then?) Looking at the body language of the other coaches while Miller's mini tirade was going on, they seemed to agree.

"I dunno," is my reaction, too.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:35 pm

Eh, it's not too early for Miller to get angry. This was an ugly weekend where we really only played when we wanted to. We beat two bad teams by less than we should have and looked fairly lethargic in doing so. You can't let teams build bad habits, and this weekend didn't build good ones.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:37 pm

Maybe just finding his opportunity to get the teams attention. If Coach can get on the gold jersey player then what will he do with the rest of us. That along with the no players in the press meeting sends a pretty clear message

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:02 pm

[quote="Merkin"]

This is what I was thinking as I watched today's game. Thursday night against the Cougs seemed like a bit of a let down game after a big win followed today by a little case of getting caught up in the hype. Still a very young team, despite all the experience gained in Trier's absence. Suddenly AZ is an overnight FF pick and every hoops pundit's hot pick for a Championship contender. None of them have experienced that before - maybe thinking they've arrived so to speak. Good time for a tune up from the Coach.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:33 pm

It was a shit weekend. 2-6 Washington comes in and leads a whole half on a night where Fultz shot just above 25% from the floor. That puts into perspective how bad that game was. Not too many coaches are going to be alright with that, let alone CSM. One game is one thing.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:24 am

EastCoastCat wrote:
cpt wrote:He lost his shit with about a minute left. It was right after Trier went one-on-one to the hole. What was that about?
Yeah, and a lot of it looked like he was directing at Trier.

Not sure what he did but he talked a lot about all of the second chance points we gave up today, which is very unusual for this team.

He went on a rant about selfish play...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:32 am

rgdeuce wrote:It was a shit weekend. 2-6 Washington comes in and leads a whole half on a night where Fultz shot just above 25% from the floor. That puts into perspective how bad that game was. Not too many coaches are going to be alright with that, let alone CSM. One game is one thing.

Kadeem's D on Fultz was the only part of this weekend I was enthused about. I would never have thought that with Kadeem doing that to Fultz the game would be close.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:35 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:It was a shit weekend. 2-6 Washington comes in and leads a whole half on a night where Fultz shot just above 25% from the floor. That puts into perspective how bad that game was. Not too many coaches are going to be alright with that, let alone CSM. One game is one thing.
Kadeem's D on Fultz was the only part of this weekend I was enthused about. I would never have thought that with Kadeem doing that to Fultz the game would be close.

Fultz said it wasn't KA that made him play lousy, he just missed open shots.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:37 am

Merkin wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:It was a shit weekend. 2-6 Washington comes in and leads a whole half on a night where Fultz shot just above 25% from the floor. That puts into perspective how bad that game was. Not too many coaches are going to be alright with that, let alone CSM. One game is one thing.
Kadeem's D on Fultz was the only part of this weekend I was enthused about. I would never have thought that with Kadeem doing that to Fultz the game would be close.
Fultz said it wasn't KA that made him play lousy, he just missed open shots.

Maybe KA is just unlucky for the opposing team. I'll take that too.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:37 am

EastCoastCat wrote:
cpt wrote:He lost his shit with about a minute left. It was right after Trier went one-on-one to the hole. What was that about?
Yeah, and a lot of it looked like he was directing at Trier.

Not sure what he did but he talked a lot about all of the second chance points we gave up today, which is very unusual for this team.

Certainly didn't look like anything was directed at Zo. He legitimately yelled and looked at the entire team.

They deserved it and I certainly don't think it's too early in the season to do that (we're past the halfway mark, now is not the time to get into bad habits).

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:41 am

I think he realizes how lucky the team is at this moment, and I get the frustration with lackluster play.

I also get the team taking a game or two off, not that I like it...it's just understandable.

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:38 am

I understand that all but don't get the yelling part.
I am getting lambasted over on Scout for my opinion but I don't understand why people think that a coach has to scream at his players.
People say that you never played on a team in high school/college (wrong but not the kind of teams where you have a coach yelling).
People say that the alternative of yelling is hugs and kisses which is a stupid response.
You can get on your players or make them sit.

If the only way to motivate players is to scream at them, something is wrong with the coach/players/program.

When are we going to get past that?
It took a while but people used to think that coaches needed to physically abuse players for their own good. I'm for getting rid of other kinds of abuses.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:46 am

Daryl Zero wrote:I understand that all but don't get the yelling part.
I am getting lambasted over on Scout for my opinion but I don't understand why people think that a coach has to scream at his players.
People say that you never played on a team in high school/college (wrong but not the kind of teams where you have a coach yelling).
People say that the alternative of yelling is hugs and kisses which is a stupid response.
You can get on your players or make them sit.

If the only way to motivate players is to scream at them, something is wrong with the coach/players/program.

When are we going to get past that?
It took a while but people used to think that coaches needed to physically abuse players for their own good. I'm for getting rid of other kinds of abuses.

I can respect your point of view...but I think yelling is still very much the mainstream in coaching. I can't think of one "elite" coach who doesn't lose his shit. Saw Izzo, Roy, K, Self etc. doing just that.

I am not a huge fan of it either...

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:47 am

the yelling was about the previous 79 minutes of crap shit play -- and yes, i know some people dont like it, and dont understand the yelling, but its apart of sports at this level especially from certain coaches with certain styles.

you know that comes with playing for Coach Miller, if thats not something a player of family member is ok to deal with, then play for another coach, its that simple.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:50 am

Yeah, there is no way that a player or family member is/was surprised at the yelling. It's not like it was out of character.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:54 am

I heard Zeus texted CSM during the second half. Here is a transcript:

"Jeez, relax!"

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:58 am

Chicat wrote:I heard Zeus texted CSM during the second half. Here is a transcript:

"Jeez, relax!"

LMMFAO

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:00 pm

Chicat wrote:I heard Zeus texted CSM during the second half. Here is a transcript:

"Jeez, relax!"

Haha, funny stuff. Wish we could embed vines.

https://vine.co/v/i5JDQgpxL3B" target="_blank

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:03 pm

two notes:

1) Arizona is 64-1 at home since the beginning of the 2013 season

2) Coach Miller won his 100th Pac12 Basketball Game yesterday

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:04 pm

Sean Miller talks Arizona Wildcats' 77-66 win over Washington Huskies

Jan 29, 2017 Updated 13 hrs ago

http://tucson.com/online/video/watch-se ... a729e.html" target="_blank

TO's and second chance shots. Team played tentative against the zone...not sure why.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:07 pm

97cats wrote:two notes:

1) Arizona is 64-1 at home since the beginning of the 2013 season

2) Coach Miller won his 100th Pac12 Basketball Game yesterday

Wouldn't want any other coach in America. Great stuff 97, I did not know that.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:08 pm

I don't get it either, but I don't think it bothers them as much as people might imagine. I also think it's strange that people think that if a coach isn't doing that then the message isn't being conveyed at all.

We don't see practices and film sessions. Seemed like this particular instance could've waited. A minute left. Take it to the locker room.

Fans read too much into what they see. Some think Lute didn't coach enough, because he wasn't in their faces. Different styles. We're all hyped up watching games, and we blurt out stuff. So the coach rips them, and it's like, "Exactly!"

I find it cringe-worthy. His language and intensity aren't my style, but I'm sure he's a good person.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:14 pm

hes actually super easy going in practice

youre welcome, Chi

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:16 pm

97cats wrote:hes actually super easy going in practice

youre welcome, Chi

The anti-Lute!

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:19 pm

Anyone see cryin Roy Williams come unglued in he first half when UNC was getting thumped by Miami? He went ballistic at them and even picked up a stool and looked like he was going to go Bobby Knight with it.

SM isn't Lute in how he handles players as we all know but the message gets across. Hopefully we seee a much more dialed in squad this week end beyond.

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:24 pm

Here's my opinion on Miller's style. As a former player (not college level certainly), there are types of players who respond well to a more boisterous coaching style. There are other types of players who completely shrivel up under that same style of coaching. I'm not trying to condemn either style of player or Miller's style of coaching. These current players under Miller wouldn't be playing for him if they couldn't take it. I have the utmost confidence that Miller's outburst (for lack of a better word), was carefully calculated in order to attempt to energize his players after a couple of lackluster performances.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm

Three guys in the starting lineup watched Miller go nose to nose with Zeus after calling him a motherfucker on national television, and then watched him sweat through two shirts in one game. They still chose to come to Arizona despite having been recruited by a bunch of top teams and coaches. I think that says something about whether they can hack it.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:44 pm

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:24 pm

gumby wrote:I don't get it either, but I don't think it bothers them as much as people might imagine. I also think it's strange that people think that if a coach isn't doing that then the message isn't being conveyed at all.

We don't see practices and film sessions. Seemed like this particular instance could've waited. A minute left. Take it to the locker room.

Fans read too much into what they see. Some think Lute didn't coach enough, because he wasn't in their faces. Different styles. We're all hyped up watching games, and we blurt out stuff. So the coach rips them, and it's like, "Exactly!"

I find it cringe-worthy. His language and intensity aren't my style, but I'm sure he's a good person.

Those comments pretty much mirror my thoughts. I am not anti Coach Miller one bit. I know his style is to be like this. I just don't think its necessary and I hope he can at least tone it down some.

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:29 pm

Chicat wrote:Three guys in the starting lineup watched Miller go nose to nose with Zeus after calling him a motherfucker on national television, and then watched him sweat through two shirts in one game. They still chose to come to Arizona despite having been recruited by a bunch of top teams and coaches. I think that says something about whether they can hack it.

I'm positive that players and coaches still think that its necessary. Doesn't mean we can't think about it and discuss whether it should be done.

I think it is a throwback to old history of captive workers. I'm not saying slaves, I'm saying captive workers like studio employees at movie studios and any job where the workers were essentially powerless. I believe that people accept the way things were done and do not think about whether it is necessary or not.

“This is how humans are: We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question.”
― Orson Scott Card, Speaker for the Dead

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:36 pm

Daryl Zero wrote:I understand that all but don't get the yelling part.
I am getting lambasted over on Scout for my opinion but I don't understand why people think that a coach has to scream at his players.
People say that you never played on a team in high school/college (wrong but not the kind of teams where you have a coach yelling).
People say that the alternative of yelling is hugs and kisses which is a stupid response.
You can get on your players or make them sit.

If the only way to motivate players is to scream at them, something is wrong with the coach/players/program.

When are we going to get past that?
It took a while but people used to think that coaches needed to physically abuse players for their own good. I'm for getting rid of other kinds of abuses.

This is an interesting topic... and I totally get where you are coming from. I don't watch much NBA (none anymore, actually) but it does not seem to me that most NBA coaches who have had great success are quite as aggressive in their interactions. Some, yes, but it is not the norm. And it is one major reason I do not see Miller as an NBA coach.

That said, translating it to the workplace... I have worked for bosses who could be meteoric, and I have worked others who were more "passive & polite".

A leader can be very aggressive and still loved by the people he is leading, IF:
1. He/ she holds him/ herself to the same high standards as the people they are leading.
2. They do not hold a grudge... they explode, and it's over - move on. No lingering angst.
3. (and this is the most important) The individuals in the organization believe that the leader truly cares about them, has their best interests at heart, and the leader's true objective is to make them the best they can be.
4. The organization is not "all about the leader"... it really is about the team.

Mackovic was a self-absorbed jerk, everything he did was about HIM, and mutiny ensued. Miller is just as aggressive in having his guys' backs, and it really is "a player's program".... if that were not the case, he would not continue to recruit at the level he does, and be as revered by most who have played for him. Look at the number of acerbic coaches who have been beloved by former players.

Others may seem calm on the exterior but are passive-aggressive - nice to your face and they'll slit your throat behind your back. Howland was less animated, but lost his team and recruiting eventually dried up.

You know where you stand with Miller, and I the players know he really cares. That is why he is as effective as he is, and will continue to be.

BibbysTowelDude · Post by **BibbysTowelDude** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:02 pm

If what Miller did is abuse, then this world is far more boned than I thought.

He gave his players a 20 second ass chewing, they get to sleep on it, going into the most important road trip of the season.

Not to mention, they earned it.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:08 pm

Ive played for coaches who: never yelled and got walked over; never yelled but had a "face" and you knew you were in trouble (effective); who was beyond Sean Miller intense but picked his moments and everyone was scared shitless of him (effective); who yelled all the time (effective); who yelled all the time but came across as whiney (ineffective), a coach who could be insulting and verbally abusive by today's standards (effective).

Coaching is way more than just yelling or not yelling. Its like parenting. Some spank, some dont, some yell, some dont. You could be the nicest parent in the world but if you dont spend time with and pay attention them, good chance they are going to have issues as adults. If you are a yeller and can be mean to your players, you better balance it with more love and praise than the next coach. If you arent a yeller, you better have a damn good plan to show the team that you actually care about winning and you want to get the most out of them. Generally speaking, that is why those coaches dont do well. Miller is not an abuser, one of the two best coaches I ever had told us we had a minute to get off the field or he was going to crack our heads open with the fungo bat he was holding. And the dude actually started his stopwatch.

I will say this though. If you are a parent and your son is on a team with an intense, yelling coach, or even demeaning (within reason and obviously after they hit 13). That can be some of the most valuable life experience you can give a kid if you dont yank him and baby him when he gets home. Ive watched 20 plus people leave my unit (usually six in a unit) at work in 5 years, I'm the only one who has stayed. As far as I know, I have been the only one who was an athlete and/or served in the military. He served, his father served. Rolls right off me (outside of a couple heated exchanges) and everyone else crumbled. You just never know who their boss is gonna be down the road.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:08 pm

Daryl Zero wrote:
Chicat wrote:Three guys in the starting lineup watched Miller go nose to nose with Zeus after calling him a motherfucker on national television, and then watched him sweat through two shirts in one game. They still chose to come to Arizona despite having been recruited by a bunch of top teams and coaches. I think that says something about whether they can hack it.
I'm positive that players and coaches still think that its necessary. Doesn't mean we can't think about it and discuss whether it should be done.

I think it is a throwback to old history of captive workers. I'm not saying slaves, I'm saying captive workers like studio employees at movie studios and any job where the workers were essentially powerless. I believe that people accept the way things were done and do not think about whether it is necessary or not.

“This is how humans are: We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question.”
― Orson Scott Card, Speaker for the Dead

Sports, by their nature, are more emotional than regular jobs. Trier screamed at the ceiling after his dunk against UW. How many work settings does that occur in?

Is screaming necessary? No. Is it a tool? Yes. Some players respond well to it, some players do not. Some players respond to pressure, some respond to support and positivity.

I think it also matters that a coach is true to himself. Miller is an intense guy. You can see it in the way he handles everything on the sidelines. The effective coaches tailor their personality to serve the ends necessary for their teams.

The effectiveness of a coach isn't judged by how much the coach yells (or how much he does not). It's how well the coach tailors his conduct to what is necessary at the moment. Odell Beckham Jr. probably requires more emotion in communicating with him than Chris Paul does because one is a far more analytical guy and the other is emotional. It's the nature of communication, and sports is always going to be more emotional than normal work environments.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:40 pm

Daryl Zero wrote: I think it is a throwback to old history of captive workers. I'm not saying slaves, I'm saying captive workers like studio employees at movie studios and any job where the workers were essentially powerless. I believe that people accept the way things were done and do not think about whether it is necessary or not.

“This is how humans are: We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question.”
― Orson Scott Card, Speaker for the Dead

If these kids listen and learn from CSM they're likely to make millions of dollars more. Pretty sure they realize this too

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:42 pm

Good discussion. When I reject some idiot's letter to the editor. i definitely let out a holler.

Feels. So. Good.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:48 pm

To me there is a line to be crossed with yelling, and Miller approached that with Zeus last year. IMO he went too far and was caught on camera. I remember feeling gross watching that, and I didn't feel that same way last night.

Not that Odogg's feeling on something is of importance...

But really, he's not throwing chairs and the tongue lashing is to be expected based on the style of coach he is. He's not smashing clipboards or throwing chairs or grabbing players by the neck.

Could he scale it back? Surely, but as was stated before...this is a sport where emotions run high and can be used as an advantage in some arenas.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:51 pm

Abuse is a 14-year-old HS freshman nearly taking a bad hop off the face at shortstop in practice and instinctively shying away from the next grounder. That was followed by the varsity assistant coach who was hitting them calling him a pussy and telling him to get back to his position, only to hit repeated grounders over and over again as hard as he could (ex-minor leaguer and 6'6", so they were hard). That kid got blasted four or five times (had bruises for weeks) and with each swing the coach would say something like, "do you need a break? Go home and put on your mommy's panty hose if youre gonna be a pussy." The kid stuck through it til the bucket of balls was empty, probably got 20 balls hit at him like that.

That 14 year old was me. My dad was at that practice. When the abuse was over I walked into the dugout, threw my glove against the wall, and then packed up my shit and left early. I held in the tears until I left the field and was walking toward my dad, then I broke down and cried harder than just about any other time in my life. Told my dad, fuck this shit I quit. He wouldnt let me and that made me cry even harder. He said something like, not only are you not going to quit, you are going to tell him you want another bucket of balls. So thats what I did. And that coach looked at me in disbelief, so he hit me another 20 or so grounders, all at normal speed. Dont know if that was out of shock or respect.

The very next season, that assistant coach got the head coach/manager job at Sahuaro High School. In their last game of the season, they needed a win to get into the regional playoffs to qualify for state. I was a sophomore and as fate would have it, I got the ball on the mound. The whole game all i could hear was him chirping from the dugout to his team, "you going to let this scrawny little kid shut you down? You going to let this pussy sophomore beat you?" I had never faced anything like that in life, I would have killed him if I had a gun, but it just fueled me. I ended up throwing a 2-hitter and ended their season. After the game when we lined up to shake their hands at home plate, he told me I pitched a heck of a game and I told him to suck my dick. He didnt even respond. It wasnt til I got home that night when I fully realized my dad gave me more than just a "don't quit" message. I cant think of many more experiences in my childhood that had more of a profound effect on me.

If anyone here went to Sahuaro High School or followed local sports when this guy played there (late 70s to early 80s), you know exactly who the guy is.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:18 pm

what a great story. thanks for sharing, @rgdeuce

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:23 pm

Olsondogg wrote:To me there is a line to be crossed with yelling, and Miller approached that with Zeus last year. IMO he went too far and was caught on camera. I remember feeling gross watching that, and I didn't feel that same way last night.

Not that Odogg's feeling on something is of importance...

But really, he's not throwing chairs and the tongue lashing is to be expected based on the style of coach he is. He's not smashing clipboards or throwing chairs or grabbing players by the neck.

Could he scale it back? Surely, but as was stated before...this is a sport where emotions run high and can be used as an advantage in some arenas.

No, he crossed that line. Miller's very public, profanity laden, episode with Zeus was nothing short of stupid.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:26 pm

To the point of tailoring the message...my daughter plays varsity and club ball for the same coach. At school/varsity ball, he is constantly yelling. Scary. Intense. Plays a lot of games to see who will step up and respond. Has zero leniency, will not bend the rules even a little (and we ran into that recently when the situation was really his fault...he changed a practice at 11 pm the night before a scheduled 8 am practice, changed to later in the day that conflicted with a family event, and he still held my kid out of the following game for missing practice, and when I took issue with a coach for the first time in my daughter's playing career, he conceded it was not handled well. Other kids missed without reason, they all got lumped together.) The school has an excellent academic program and draws a lot of kids from out of boundary, and some of the kids played club for him before or do now, but it is a old school in an older part of town, and the kids on the team who are just playing for the neighborhood school often times don't have as much structure at home, or any at all. Coach is sometimes both coach and a parent, or at least a parental figure or authority figure that provides the only structure some of these kids get at all. He has to set strict rules. He has to stick to those rules. He needs to sometimes come unglued, be tough, and be unrelenting in his consistency.

On the club team...you have 18 girls who are still playing club in their high school years, when many girls have quit. Those who play club are signing up for 10 months of training (club + school), limited social life, and times when the body doesn't seem like it can go any farther, but there is still one more tournament. These girls are generally self-motivated. They are harder on themselves than a coach can be. And this can not be overstated as an impact...these kids' parents are paying a lot of money for club fees, tournament travel, clinics, camps, etc. This isn't Compton Magic, where Adidas and other lines of revenue can cover everything. The vast majority of club sports cost parents for player travel, fees, etc. Fundraising just covers the cost of tournament entry and coaching travel and salaries and field rental. Following this logic, the coach is not nearly as aggressive as in school ball. He is consistent, but exceptions can be made within reason. There is always a need for the coach to push just a little harder, but the motivation is largely intrinsic in a girl who is still playing their chosen sport at 16. He just needs to help bring it out a bit, and provide instruction. It is much more about Xs and Os and less about behavior modification. The same guy...and there are definitely hints of his trademark intensity in club...but there is a notable difference in how he coaches at the club level.

And he warns his club girls who play school ball before the school season...this is going to be different. He doesn't spell out all of the motivations for the difference, but he gives a warning. He isn't warm and fuzzy at any level, but whatever nice guy exists in club all but disappears in school.

Unless you win a playoff game. Then, practice the next day is fun. They get back to it the day after, but playoff wins = one day of fun practice. It'd be nice to pick up a couple more fun practice days over the next two weeks.

(off topic of coaching but on high school ball)...My kid's team won their first playoff game in OT last week. My kid is a sophomore, and gets limited playing time (6A schools), so I am along for the ride. But another one of the parents I know (I actually went to Jr High and High School with him in another city) and talk with at games is the dad of a senior. Our game ended relatively dramatic, with an OT lead almost equalized late by a series of unfortunate events (not related to Lemony Snicket). The last minute was a roller coaster of emotions, and when the buzzer went off, the crowd went nuts (we travel well). But underneath all of it, I heard this otherwise boisterous parent just exhale and exclaim, almost choked up, and to no one in particular, "It's not over..." And it hit me in the gut. I got it. You start down this path at 7 or 8, maybe 9 or 10 for club. At 6 am practices. At practices that end at 10 PM. A folding chair under a tree to watch a game in 110 degree heat. Maybe 2 games in a day, across town. Then it gets real serious and you are travelling around the Southwest. You get to know the hotels and the parents. You have the parents who are your drinking partners at the Captain's Reception at Embassy Suites. You don't socialize with them, and you go a two or three months in the offseason not seeing them. Then their daughter doesn't make the team, or goes to a different club, and you don't see them again until you are playing against them...you shake hands, catch up, then carry your chairs to the field, hoping to find that tree. You do this for 10 years...it becomes your weekend guide, your travel guide. You keep refreshing your computer at 10 pm hoping someone will update the state website with how your rival club did in Riverside, or up in Flagstaff. Half your wardrobe is club wear for ad revenue/fundraising. And then a goal sneaks in, the buzzer sounds, and you are done. It is over. Your kid is probably going to play at some college if you are still going at this level, but that isn't the same. You aren't hanging up her kit after she gets 4 steps in the door and lies down face first in the carpet and falls asleep after 5 games in 40 hours. You aren't taking her to practice, or going with her to rehab 3 times a week after she tears her ACL the first time. You aren't talking her through a full bodied cry after losing a tournament due to her mistake or a teammate who doesn't care as much, or listening to her talk a mile a minute, on a medal buzz from taking a tournament title. Someone else will be doing all of that. It is just over. Suddenly.

And no matter what happens going forward, I will want my daughter's team to win in the playoffs, but if they do, I will know that there are 8 or 9 dads on the other sideline who are saying to themselves "it's over..."

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