ASU blows

Gilbertcat · Post by **Gilbertcat** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:13 pm

Granted they won but only 1 true road game and now they dont play anyone until the 30th. I dont see how that will prep them for conference play.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:35 pm

We just need to stomp them and put an end to this noise.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:50 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:We just need to stomp them and put an end to this noise.

For one, I welcome a good ASU team. We want to whip them. Instead of the usual, where we either get a neutral or bad result, it would be nice to get a bump if we win.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:50 pm

Hmmm...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:52 pm

Merkin wrote:Hmmm...

They have a proud tradition, from James Harden to Hedake Smith to Byron Scott. That's really it, but at least 2/3 of those guys aren't convicted point shavers.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:08 pm

In fairness we're more WingU in the miller era.

splitsecond · Post by **splitsecond** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:43 pm

Merkin wrote:Hmmm...

I see they are still using an elementary school locker room

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:51 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:In fairness we're more WingU in the miller era.

Eh, TJ is a pro, Nick was an All American here and played in the L. Allonzo preseason AA, Kyle Fogg is very successful overseas (blows away Jahii at least). Lyons is making a living overseas.

Even if you don't consider Stan or Rondae guards, we're doing massively better than ASU.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:52 pm

splitsecond wrote:
Merkin wrote:Hmmm...

I see they are still using an elementary school locker room

That was the KU visiting locker room

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Catintheheat wrote:I'm getting a kick out of the ASU board. They are having delusions of grandeur. People want to stop by the airport to welcome them home, like they won a 'ship. I guess they are entitled since they have the best team they've ever had. One poster was insinuating that WFA is going to be the toughest court to play in the conference. But I guess they should whoop it up now because in a few weeks they are going to be brought back down to earth.

It has been a while since ASU had as good a team as they do this year so I can understand why their fans are excited. I won't fault them for that. I actually don't remember how good ASU was with Harden. The last good team I really remember was in the mid 90's when they had Mario Bennett. I think that team made the sweet 16. As far as anyone suggesting Wells Fargo Arena is the toughest court to play in I would disagree but the enthusiasm this year will put more butts in seats consistently. I still think McKale is the toughest Pac 12 arena to win at with Oregon's home court being second. ASU has better guard play at this point but they don't have Deandre Ayton. I'm actually glad to see ASU challenge us this year for a change. Anything to toughen us up more for the rigors of the NCAA tournament.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:11 pm

True, always appreciate the perspective.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:38 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Catintheheat wrote:I'm getting a kick out of the ASU board. They are having delusions of grandeur. People want to stop by the airport to welcome them home, like they won a 'ship. I guess they are entitled since they have the best team they've ever had. One poster was insinuating that WFA is going to be the toughest court to play in the conference. But I guess they should whoop it up now because in a few weeks they are going to be brought back down to earth.
It has been a while since ASU had as good a team as they do this year so I can understand why their fans are excited. I won't fault them for that. I actually don't remember how good ASU was with Harden. The last good team I really remember was in the mid 90's when they had Mario Bennett. I think that team made the sweet 16. As far as anyone suggesting Wells Fargo Arena is the toughest court to play in I would disagree but the enthusiasm this year will put more butts in seats consistently. I still think McKale is the toughest Pac 12 arena to win at with Oregon's home court being second. ASU has better guard play at this point but they don't have Deandre Ayton. I'm actually glad to see ASU challenge us this year for a change. Anything to toughen us up more for the rigors of the NCAA tournament.

Wells Fargo isn't top 5. McKale is easily #1. Colorado and Utah's altitude plus decent fans are better than ASU. Oregon and Stanford/UW/Cal are all better or even. Wells Fargo can beat out the LA schools, Oregon State, WSU and that's about it.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:16 pm

Hurley has the luxury of having upperclassmen. Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Kentucky, etc. frequently have to reload their rosters. Yes, most of them have some upperclassmen as well and/or a couple of guys that decided to stay a bit longer than expected, but constant change in rosters for key players and positions significantly impacts depth and experience. If he starts landing better classes, he is going to start losing guys early and will not have seniors who have developed and can really ball. He has the perfect scenario this year, but it will be interesting to see what happens during conference play. His guys are on a roll, but what happens when they come back down to earth? Because it won't last.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:26 pm

midnightx wrote:Hurley has the luxury of having upperclassmen. Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Kentucky, etc. frequently have to reload their rosters. Yes, most of them have some upperclassmen as well and/or a couple of guys that decided to stay a bit longer than expected, but constant change in rosters for key players and positions significantly impacts depth and experience. If he starts landing better classes, he is going to start losing guys early and will not have seniors who have developed and can really ball. He has the perfect scenario this year, but it will be interesting to see what happens during conference play. His guys are on a roll, but what happens when they come back down to earth? Because it won't last.

Having a roster full of 3 star upper class men is a luxury? Hurley must be so thankful he isn't coaching a blue blood program. I am sure it is miserable having a roster loaded with 5 star talent and being picked to be in the final four every year. Hurley must be counting his blessings.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:58 pm

In this day and age, having a bunch of senior three and four stars is as good as having freshmen four and five stars.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:44 am

The model with Hurley as it stands now is to have players with less talent play early. That's why ASU has done nothing up until now. When their senior class departs, they'll take a significant step back and then slowly build. His model is to start bringing higher rated recruits to help stabilize the program.

ASU deserves credit for what it has accomplished so far. But what exactly has this senior class accomplished up until now? Nothing. They've been a subpar program during the previous four years. Tra Holder, Shannon Evans and Kodi Justice have been just as likely to score 3 points or go off for 30. And as the season unfolds, unless ASU gets some significant help at other positions, opponents will figure ASU out and limit shots and opportunities. Just as ASU is going to have games where everything is falling and they hit 50% of their 3's, they're going to revert to the mean and have games where they hit 20% of their 3's. The question is, can they win when opponents begin to take away their offense? Can they win games where they have to grind out possessions, play defense for the full extent of the shot clock, and rebound? I think they're a tournament team. But I don't see them winning the Pac or garnering a top 3 seed.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:26 am

Anyway, it’s gone from ASU Blows to ASU Overblown.

Scummy Dick Douglas · Post by **Scummy Dick Douglas** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:40 am

zonagrad wrote:The model with Hurley as it stands now is to have players with less talent play early. That's why ASU has done nothing up until now. When their senior class departs, they'll take a significant step back and then slowly build. His model is to start bringing higher rated recruits to help stabilize the program.

ASU deserves credit for what it has accomplished so far. But what exactly has this senior class accomplished up until now? Nothing. They've been a subpar program during the previous four years. Tra Holder, Shannon Evans and Kodi Justice have been just as likely to score 3 points or go off for 30. And as the season unfolds, unless ASU gets some significant help at other positions, opponents will figure ASU out and limit shots and opportunities. Just as ASU is going to have games where everything is falling and they hit 50% of their 3's, they're going to revert to the mean and have games where they hit 20% of their 3's. The question is, can they win when opponents begin to take away their offense? Can they win games where they have to grind out possessions, play defense for the full extent of the shot clock, and rebound? I think they're a tournament team. But I don't see them winning the Pac or garnering a top 3 seed.

I realize that ASU basketball's success this season is due to having a senior laden team. I just find it laughable that someone would try to argue that the blue blood programs are at a disadvantage because they have to restock with elite talent every year.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:21 am

Really have to hand it to Hurley. He is getting a lot more than the sum of his parts right now. Not a lot of coaches can say that right now.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:35 am

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
zonagrad wrote:The model with Hurley as it stands now is to have players with less talent play early. That's why ASU has done nothing up until now. When their senior class departs, they'll take a significant step back and then slowly build. His model is to start bringing higher rated recruits to help stabilize the program.

ASU deserves credit for what it has accomplished so far. But what exactly has this senior class accomplished up until now? Nothing. They've been a subpar program during the previous four years. Tra Holder, Shannon Evans and Kodi Justice have been just as likely to score 3 points or go off for 30. And as the season unfolds, unless ASU gets some significant help at other positions, opponents will figure ASU out and limit shots and opportunities. Just as ASU is going to have games where everything is falling and they hit 50% of their 3's, they're going to revert to the mean and have games where they hit 20% of their 3's. The question is, can they win when opponents begin to take away their offense? Can they win games where they have to grind out possessions, play defense for the full extent of the shot clock, and rebound? I think they're a tournament team. But I don't see them winning the Pac or garnering a top 3 seed.
I realize that ASU basketball's success this season is due to having a senior laden team. I just find it laughable that someone would try to argue that the blue blood programs are at a disadvantage because they have to restock with elite talent every year.

If you are referring to me, I do not think blue blood programs are at a disadvantage — I am simply pointing out that when certain second-tier programs have the luxury of compiling a lot of seniors, they will be able to put together a run like Hurley is having before conference play. It works out every once in a while — next year ASU won’t make the tournament.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:50 am

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:53 am

Merkin wrote:

Just let them have this. They don't get much.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:13 am

More like “Guard Ur Drink”, amirite ladies of ASSU?

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:14 pm

No less than 3 scummies approached me today with the Forks up blabbering about their team and Bobby [make me] HURLey...we HAVE TO WIN on the 30th. This is not just another game. If I hear anyone associated with the bball program say that, I will want them OUT!!

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:28 pm

Bah, ASU is just another hoops game until they prove differently. They’ve had a nice little run this year, but they’ve proven nothing yet.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:37 pm

UALoco wrote:No less than 3 scummies approached me today with the Forks up blabbering about their team and Bobby [make me] HURLey...we HAVE TO WIN on the 30th. This is not just another game. If I hear anyone associated with the bball program say that, I will want them OUT!!

I mean, I don't like ASU at all, but I don't take that seriously.

Arizona fans were disappointed because we only won 2 NCAA tournament games last year. ASU has won 2 NCAA tournament games in the last 20 years. That stat speaks volumes about the different plane of existence the programs are on.

Like I said above, let them enjoy this. Let them be ranked come 12/30.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:40 pm

We saw what over confidence did for us in the Bahamas.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:01 pm

UALoco wrote:We saw what over confidence did for us in the Bahamas.

I'm not speaking from a place of overconfidence. I like having a ranked opponent to boost our RPI. Usually ASU drags it even if we hammer them. It is nice to see a game vs them mean something and have the potential to really help our resume.

splitsecond · Post by **splitsecond** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:05 pm

Chicat wrote:More like “Guard Ur Drink”, amirite ladies of ASSU?

They actually prefer to leave it unguarded so they can get to their optimal status of blacked out faster.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:03 pm

Seriously, assu fan(s) will go out their way to prove college basketball doesn't matter (just in March) but are all giddy about their little success in Mid-December.

Toughest arena in the conference? Don't you have to put butts in seats first? Even with Harden in uniform, they maybe had 1 sellout, albeit they have a curtain hiding seats now.

I actually want them to go as high as they can in the polls....the reality will make it that much better when they come back down to earth. I mean 5 #1 votes? hysterical. The media loves a good story, especially from a joke program like assu, so I guess it makes a little sense. Not saying this isn't a good team that can't make the tournament ect but all the hype is way overblown.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:09 pm

cats101 wrote:Seriously, assu fan(s) will go out their way to prove college basketball doesn't matter (just in March) but are all giddy about their little success in Mid-December.

Toughest arena in the conference? Don't you have to put butts in seats first? Even with Harden in uniform, they maybe had 1 sellout, albeit they have a curtain hiding seats now.

I actually want them to go as high as they can in the polls....the reality will make it that much better when they come back down to earth. I mean 5 #1 votes? hysterical. The media loves a good story, especially from a joke program like assu, so I guess it makes a little sense. Not saying this isn't a good team that can't make the tournament ect but all the hype is way overblown.

1McKale
2Matthew Knight Arena
3Huntsman Center
4Coors Event Center
5Maples Pavilion
6Alaska Airlines Arena
7Pauley Pavilion
8Haas Pavilion
9Wells Fargo
10Galen Center
11Gill Coliseum
12Beasley Coliseum

That is my power ranking over the last 15 years or so all things considered

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:27 pm

I'd say that's a fair list. 1/2 not much for debate. There's a reason both have had nation leading streaks at some point, though having a good team helps. Anything outside of that is probably interchangeable. Somewhat miss UW having a very hostile home court. The way the dawgpack situated made it seem like a Duke-lite. Much fun to go in and come out with a win.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:40 pm

Phoenix sports talk guys were speculating that Bobby Hurley could be the next Lute Olson since he said in an interview he wants to stay at ASU long term. Sickening stupidity and credulity.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:29 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:Phoenix sports talk guys were speculating that Bobby Hurley could be the next Lute Olson since he said in an interview he wants to stay at ASU long term. Sickening stupidity and credulity.

No one has ever said that without meaning it.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:52 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Phoenix sports talk guys were speculating that Bobby Hurley could be the next Lute Olson since he said in an interview he wants to stay at ASU long term. Sickening stupidity and credulity.
No one has ever said that without meaning it.

Huh? Every coach says that, but few mean it. Hurley will replace Coach K if he continues having success.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:22 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Phoenix sports talk guys were speculating that Bobby Hurley could be the next Lute Olson since he said in an interview he wants to stay at ASU long term. Sickening stupidity and credulity.
No one has ever said that without meaning it.
Huh? Every coach says that, but few mean it. Hurley will replace Coach K if he continues having success.

I was being sarcastic. Everyone says it and it is meaningless.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:25 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Phoenix sports talk guys were speculating that Bobby Hurley could be the next Lute Olson since he said in an interview he wants to stay at ASU long term. Sickening stupidity and credulity.
No one has ever said that without meaning it.
Huh? Every coach says that, but few mean it. Hurley will replace Coach K if he continues having success.
I was being sarcastic. Everyone says it and it is meaningless.

LOL I'm a dingus. I think ASU's ceiling is Sweet 16 and I half expect them to lose a game before we meet at McKale.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:46 pm

ASU should be ahead of the curve early in the season. They have three seniors who've played together for several years (and accomplished absolutely nothing I might add). Most elite programs have high roster turnover because of the nature of college basketball. ASU has not had to deal with that. As the season unfolds, younger teams will get experience. I have a hard time believing ASU has a top 10 ceiling. I just don't see it. They have two impressive wins: Xavier & Kansas. And I think the X game will be a better win for them as the season unfolds.

Kansas' loss to UW in Kansas City was a major red flag. it's not as though the Huskies stole one at the buzzer. They flat out dominated the entire second half against KU and never trailed. They led by as many as 14 points in what was essentially a home game for KU, just 45 miles from Lawrence. If I was a Jayhawk fan, I'd be shitting my pants right now! UW then turned around and went home and got pounded by 27 points at home by Gonzaga. What happens if KU loses their next game at Nebraska, which isn't that unlikely. Nebraska has already beaten Boston College (which beat Duke) and knocked off Minnesota (supposedly a Big 10 contender).

National perception is that ASU just beat a top 5 team on their home floor. The more I look at KU, I see ASU beat a team that shouldn't even be ranked at the moment. ASU obviously deserves some recognition. But I have a hard time believing they are going to walk into McKale Center and shoot lights out against us. ASU is likely to show a lot of zone against us, which means a ton of opportunities for our perimeter players to get open looks and Ayton and Ristic to get second chance points. With nearly three weeks of Rawle Alkins back in the mix, I expect our defense to be a helluva lot better than it has been. We have games against UNM, North Dakota and UCONN to shore things up before the Pac 12 opener. But I hope our coaching staff is already game planning for ASU.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:28 am

I agree with zonagrad that it's really hard to say ASU is for real based on the KU win when you look at KU losing to Washington. Washington beat St. Martin's, which I'm still not 100% is an actual college, by 4 at home. UW has looked unimpressive across the board, then they take Kansas out by 9.

I'm just not sold that KU is that good right now, and that is ASU's big calling card win.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:43 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I agree with zonagrad that it's really hard to say ASU is for real based on the KU win when you look at KU losing to Washington. Washington beat St. Martin's, which I'm still not 100% is an actual college, by 4 at home. UW has looked unimpressive across the board, then they take Kansas out by 9.

I'm just not sold that KU is that good right now, and that is ASU's big calling card win.

Now that they have a target on their back - including a lack of height (starting lineup is 6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 6-5 (190 lbs) and 6-9), I bet they come down to earth and go 9-9 in the conference.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:52 am

MountainCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I agree with zonagrad that it's really hard to say ASU is for real based on the KU win when you look at KU losing to Washington. Washington beat St. Martin's, which I'm still not 100% is an actual college, by 4 at home. UW has looked unimpressive across the board, then they take Kansas out by 9.

I'm just not sold that KU is that good right now, and that is ASU's big calling card win.
Now that they have a target on their back - including a lack of height (starting lineup is 6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 6-5 (190 lbs) and 6-9), I bet they come down to earth and go 9-9 in the conference.

We'll see. This year has had a lot of fits and starts for a lot of teams. They have a unique style and that can go well or poorly. If they are good, super. I'd rather beat a good ASU team. If we think Arizona is a FF level team, we can't get worried about ASU being good.

I sort of think this doesn't last too, but...that's why they play the games.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:10 am

I think ASSU ends up battling us for the PAC crown. They have experience and really good guards. With the conference not being very good this year I think they go no worse than 14-4 and they end up a top 4 seed going into the tourney. Oh and the PAC tourney will be us and them in the finals, fun fun

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:24 am

ASU is basically a version of what UCLA was last year. 3rd place in PAC at best IMO

splitsecond · Post by **splitsecond** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:21 pm

azcat49 wrote:I think ASSU ends up battling us for the PAC crown. They have experience and really good guards. With the conference not being very good this year I think they go no worse than 14-4 and they end up a top 4 seed going into the tourney. Oh and the PAC tourney will be us and them in the finals, fun fun

Imagine an ASU - Arizona championship game in Vegas. The cocaine and liquor fueled brawls in the stands would be epic.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:14 pm

Well, ASU blows right now.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:14 pm

Are they wearing swimsuits?

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:20 pm

Wearing a bit of egg maybe.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:28 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote:Well, ASU blows right now.

It's on P12 network, so even if they lose, no one will notice.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:31 pm

Dammit, I wanted asu artificially inflated so we could take their ranking.

This loss is like the most asu thing ever.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:35 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
dovecanyoncat wrote:Well, ASU blows right now.
It's on P12 network, so even if they lose, no one will notice.

Then that's a shame. They won't get to experience a whistle every 30 seconds.

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