Sean Miller

[PHXCATS]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but even in the midst of a (so far) disappointing year with a lot of rocky patches, I don't question whether Miller is our guy.

As a comparison point, Duke is just as loaded as we are. They've gone 19-5, and are third in the ACC at 7-4. No one wonders if Coach K is the guy there.

This has not been the most pleasant of years, but I think we lose perspective on how it is at other programs yearly. Struggling years happen. Years with early tourney exits happen. Calipari and Roy Williams have been in the NIT within the last 10 years.

I think we back ourselves into an issue by having a revolving cast of programs to compare ourselves to. Last year it was Oregon. This year it's Purdue. We compare ourselves to a revolving cast of the best and miss the down years of the same programs.

It's why I hate on people who ding Miller for not meeting "the goal of Final Fours." If it isn't for Miller, that isn't the goal. With a lesser coach, we'd be happy with Sweet 16's. Because we have such a good coach, those successes feel like failures.

Coach K has been successful and has won 5 titles and 12 final fours. 3 times national coach of the year. It is silly to compare Coach K to Miller.

I thought 2012 was a pretty down year by the way. Not sure why you always say Miller has no down years. 2012, I would say 2013 and 2016 were all down. 2017 S16 game was by far a down time.

Miller is a hell of a recruiter. And that is vitally important in college basketball. Maybe the most important thing a college coach must do. But he isnt a perfect coach and I think after seeing this team lose 5 times all to teams that Arizona is far more superior to a talent level, that is is fair to question what is going on with him.

I have never advanced that Miller does not have down years. I argue that what we consider down years are not down years for most programs. You're crapping on Miller for only making a Sweet 16 last year. Only 3 other Pac teams have made Sweet 16's even once in the last 5 years. We've been there 4 of 5. I think we actually match or exceed the number of Sweet 16's for the rest of our whole conference during that period.

And yes, it's fair to compare Miller to K. You list K's accolades. He has also had bad seasons and early tourney exits across that career that you ignore. That's the point. Your ilk cites to the success of other programs and ignores their down times.

I dont ignore down times. I just dont care about down times that much when there is great success.

Coach K has not missed the tournament since his third year at Duke. Miller missed his third year also. Miller flamed out in 2016. So what if Coach K does when he has titles and final fours

since you always mention UCONN, I would take this every single day and I think everyone but you would.

Since Miller came to UA (only counting NCAA and NITs)
UA
1 Total Miss
1 NIT
1 Round 64
2 Sweet 16
3 Elite 8

UCONN
2 Total Miss
2 NIT
1 Round 64
1 Round 32
2 NATIONAL TITLES

The down years suck I get that, but I rather have two titles and 6 or so less than stellar years than 6 participation ribbons

And I focus on Duke, UNC, Kansas, MSU, Kentucky so much because Miller recruits to that level and UA has those resources. But UA is not meeting those types of expectations. Cant have it both ways. Cant say we are as good or right there with them when you recruit guys who have those offers and then hold yourself to a lesser standard.

[ChooChooCat]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but even in the midst of a (so far) disappointing year with a lot of rocky patches, I don't question whether Miller is our guy.

As a comparison point, Duke is just as loaded as we are. They've gone 19-5, and are third in the ACC at 7-4. No one wonders if Coach K is the guy there.

This has not been the most pleasant of years, but I think we lose perspective on how it is at other programs yearly. Struggling years happen. Years with early tourney exits happen. Calipari and Roy Williams have been in the NIT within the last 10 years.

I think we back ourselves into an issue by having a revolving cast of programs to compare ourselves to. Last year it was Oregon. This year it's Purdue. We compare ourselves to a revolving cast of the best and miss the down years of the same programs.

It's why I hate on people who ding Miller for not meeting "the goal of Final Fours." If it isn't for Miller, that isn't the goal. With a lesser coach, we'd be happy with Sweet 16's. Because we have such a good coach, those successes feel like failures.

I guess the primary question I have in regards to Sean Miller is at this point do we win games because Sean Miller is able to recruit better talent to Arizona than most other schools or do we win because of his coaching? Is it a mix of the two with most of it having to do with superior talent or does most of it have to do with his superior coaching?

Ultimately Sean Miller has proven that Arizona isn't a one coach program. You can recruit immense talent and win big at Arizona no matter who the coach is even if that coach doesn't have a reputation for great recruiting at their previous stop (Miller at Xavier). Could Arizona be equally or more successful with another coach like Chris Beard (just throwing a name out) or do we honestly think Sean Miller is the only current obtainable coach that could have the success that he's having at Arizona?

Just some things to ponder. Does Sean Miller make Arizona as good as it is or does Arizona's brand make Arizona as good as it is at this point?

I would want to add to your list of questions, do we want to find out if Arizona's brand is as good as you cite?

It backs into a logical conundrum with Miller. He won at Xavier, and you say he wasn't noted as a dominant recruiter. So, he was probably a good coach at Xavier. Now, he's recruited talent and the question is whether he's a recruiter who isn't that great at coaching.

They can't both be true. I would add that Miller has recruited better than Lute when Arizona's brand was at its peak.

Could Miller have evolved his approach in regards to who he targets, because he can get a different level of player at Arizona than he could at Xavier? Could it be instead of picking a guy who is a better fit for what his system entails he goes star gazing and goes for guys who are no question talented, but may not fit his system of play?

Miller certainly capitalized on the Arizona brand and he deserves credit for being better at recruiting than Olson in regards to star rankings, but Olson is arguably the best coach of all time in regards to 1. Identifying talent and 2. Developing that talent into a pro. Olson also recruited in the straight from High School to the Pros era, while Miller has been here during the one and done era, which provided Miller more opportunities than Olson did, because he could target the guys who would be good enough to go pro straight out of HS and either land them or they go to another school, so another high end player wouldn't be nabbed up by a Kentucky or Duke and Arizona could target and land them. Olson on the other hand pursued guys who weren't one and dones, but could be bred into stars.

Either way different eras and hard to compare the two of them, but nonetheless success at recruiting existed for both coaches for different reasons.

Miller certainly won at Xavier with a different level of player that he lands now. The question is just how did he do it? Was it his coaching? Was it his system? Was it that he recruited players that fit his system? Yay questions!

[Spaceman Spiff]

PHXCATS, I'm out of this discussion after this post because I'm sick of the constant movement of the goalposts.

Duke spent 5 years ending in 2008-2009 never advancing beyond the Sweet 16. When you get all high and mighty aboout how Sweet 16's are disappointing, then compare us to Duke, well, they had 5 straight disappointing seasons by your own logic.

What does this prove? Not that K sucks, but that **** happens. To everyone. Even Duke and the best coach in modern history.

Your UConn fixation is also similarly detached from reality. UConn has a bizarre resuume where they miss the tourney half the time and win a NC a quarter of the time. This is why it's straight up moving goalposts to any program you can use to attack Miller. Name another program beyond Uconn that misses the tourney half the time that you'd trade places with.

Heck, claim with a straight face that you'd rather be Uconn going forward as opposed to Arizona. That's why it's frustrating discussing with you. I wind up discussing the impossibility of assuming UConn's history because you can't contend with a straight face that UConn isn't in a worse place than us right now, so the goalposts move.

We do not have the ability to claim the past of another program. Acting like UConn has some secret formula to miss the tourney half the time and win the NC a quarter of the time...well, is it based on their strategy of anticipating a shot will be blocked and using it as a pass? Or are they super smart about how to win a natty but can't utilize the same smart to figure out how to maoe the tourney more?

I'm out.

[PHXCATS]

I haven't moved the goalposts one time. Final fours and titles are the goal.

Will you be at the game in Tempe or the PAC12 tournament. I will meet you, get you a beer and show you how straight my face is when I say I rather be UCONN the last 8 years than UA

[dmjcat]

Lots of folks here touting Millers recruiting prowess.

isn't everyone forgetting that little matter with Book/FBI????

I for one will not be convinced that Miller is a "Witch" until after the NCAA mess is behind us and he actually recruits at the same level as before without Book and the bags of money.

[CalStateTempe]

That’s cute that you think the bags of money are going away.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That’s cute that you think the bags of money are going away.

For us or for everyone? That matters very much.

[CalStateTempe]

That’s cute that you think the bags of money are going away.

For us or for everyone? That matters very much.

Ah yes, for us probably, for everyone else, no.

[ChooChooCat]

That’s cute that you think the bags of money are going away.

For us or for everyone? That matters very much.

Ah yes, for us probably, for everyone else, no.

Let's be honest they're going nowhere. Just no more dealing with shoe company rivals....jesus christ even typing that because it happened makes me want to bang my head on my desk.

[NYCat]

Wasn't Archie, then Whitford, then Pasternak, now Romar (or Phelps?) the main recruiting assistants anyway?

[YoDeFoe]

Wasn't Archie, then Whitford, then Pasternak, now Romar (or Phelps?) the main recruiting assistants anyway?

Pasternak and Book were and we lost them both in the same offseason.

[Hank of sb]

Wasn't Archie, then Whitford, then Pasternak, now Romar (or Phelps?) the main recruiting assistants anyway?

Pasternak and Book were and we lost them both in the same offseason.

Pasternak is 19-5, starting from scratch. Three of his 5 losses: @Texas A&M, @ PITT, @ USC. Pretty impressive.

Should the need arise: a good fall back choice if a bigger name won't come.

[Merkin]

Wasn't Archie, then Whitford, then Pasternak, now Romar (or Phelps?) the main recruiting assistants anyway?

Pasternak and Book were and we lost them both in the same offseason.

Pasternak is 19-5, starting from scratch. Three of his 5 losses: @Texas A&M, @ PITT, @ USC. Pretty impressive.

Should the need arise: a good fall back choice if a bigger name won't come.

Except for this:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... d084d.html" target="_blank

Included is a mention that then-UA associate head coach Joe Pasternack likely spoke in March with one of the sports agents who later bribed Richardson, according to the complaint.

[Longhorned]

There is no way in this world Pasternak is at the level of Arizona HC.

[Hank of sb]

Wasn't Archie, then Whitford, then Pasternak, now Romar (or Phelps?) the main recruiting assistants anyway?

Pasternak and Book were and we lost them both in the same offseason.

Pasternak is 19-5, starting from scratch. Three of his 5 losses: @Texas A&M, @ PITT, @ USC. Pretty impressive.

Should the need arise: a good fall back choice if a bigger name won't come.

Except for this:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... d084d.html" target="_blank

Included is a mention that then-UA associate head coach Joe Pasternack likely spoke in March with one of the sports agents who later bribed Richardson, according to the complaint.

Kind of depends on who called who. If the agent called Pasternak then it makes Pasternak look all the better.

From my understanding of what went down, Book asked Pasternak to join him after having met Dawkins previously. Pasternak went along for the ride. Regardless, only one assistant went awry; the other didn't.

I have always believed Pasternak was never tempted to get involved the way Book did.

[Beachcat97]

Just putting this out there: any chance Miles Simon could ever be our coach? He’s currently an assistant for the Lakers and has already been an assistant for us as well. He’s also arguably one of the most legendary players in program history. He’d recruit well. Just not sure he’s ready to be HC of a big time program. And yes, I’m doing the unpopular thing of looking beyond the Miller era.

[PieceOfMeat]

Just putting this out there: any chance Miles Simon could ever be our coach?

Do not want.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That’s cute that you think the bags of money are going away.

For us or for everyone? That matters very much.

Ah yes, for us probably, for everyone else, no.

I mean, if the bags of money are going away, Zion Williamson needs to know ASAP.

[Hank of sb]

Just putting this out there: any chance Miles Simon could ever be our coach? He’s currently an assistant for the Lakers and has already been an assistant for us as well. He’s also arguably one of the most legendary players in program history. He’d recruit well. Just not sure he’s ready to be HC of a big time program. And yes, I’m doing the unpopular thing of looking beyond the Miller era.

Not sure if anyone can predict (know) who would recruit well and who would not. That said, when the time comes, I'm all for a different approach to this crucial hire. (I'm assuming Billy Donovan, in this hypothetical situation, would not be available and, further, wouldn't want to return to college basketball if he were, much less to Arizona.) Luke Walton might be another candidate considered should he fall out of favor in his current job and, to boot, asked for consideration. (I like those who ask. Didn't work for Les Miles but I assume Arizona was flattered.)

As for doing the "unpopular thing," I think the program has been wounded and healing the wound properly might well require a new coach. That may not seem fair, right or reasonable to some, but it's my opinion.

Many say 9/10 years is a decent enough stretch to begin with.

I think so.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Wish Sean would just break out of the robotic routine from time to time...he's got a stable of horses that are athletic as can be; throw a press out there from time to time to get the tempo up, get the guys running around and get some fast break opportunities out of it. Make the other team work, feel hurried. Try a zone for a half, try a few new things on offense. We're just pretty easy to game plan against if we never change, and in the tournament that's been Miller's biggest Achilles heel.

[Beachcat97]

Okay, interesting. So I’m not the only one having these thoughts. I love Sean. He’s a good guy and has meant a lot to this program. Just feels like a change may be needed soon. There’s just not enough to show for the unbelievable recruiting success he’s had. Most expected us to steamroll the Pac this year. Oregon lost all their key players from last year. UW has a new coach. Cal has a new coach. UCLA lost half their freshman class to suspensions and withdrawal. Meanwhile, we returned 3 starters from a Pac tourney champion and added Ayton. Randolph and Akot were expected to contribute immediately. It’s always a little unfair doing these assessments when there are quite a few games left. But yesterday was just very dispiriting. 9 point favorite. At freaking McKale. Vs. an unranked team. We can’t lose that game. And yet, they did. Will they bounce back vs. USC? I hope so. I like this group and wanna see them hang at least a banner or two. I’m just losing confidence that our coach can get this turned around.

[ChooChooCat]

Arizona would have to be a corpse of a program for us to hire an unqualified alum or Pasternack.

[TheGreatCatsby]

On national radio shows even today, Arizona is still like the second team to be talked about to win the title after Villanova. They were all saying we were wandering in the desert though so who knows about us. Easy pun for them. Say our talent is among the best in the nation. Miller may still coach a gem in the tourney, who knows, and in the past there have been many other coaches like him who broke through after long bad luck streaks.

He has all the talent too, like his team, it's just seems whether or not it comes out the right way. Right now, we're pretty static. The FBI thing is probably a chink in his armor. But that FBI case against Book and the others may start to lose some steam with one of the main FBI informants being investigated for corruption himself now, which may throw him out as a witness for the government's case.

[zonagrad]

Okay, interesting. So I’m not the only one having these thoughts. I love Sean. He’s a good guy and has meant a lot to this program. Just feels like a change may be needed soon. There’s just not enough to show for the unbelievable recruiting success he’s had. Most expected us to steamroll the Pac this year. Oregon lost all their key players from last year. UW has a new coach. Cal has a new coach. UCLA lost half their freshman class to suspensions and withdrawal. Meanwhile, we returned 3 starters from a Pac tourney champion and added Ayton. Randolph and Akot were expected to contribute immediately. It’s always a little unfair doing these assessments when there are quite a few games left. But yesterday was just very dispiriting. 9 point favorite. At freaking McKale. Vs. an unranked team. We can’t lose that game. And yet, they did. Will they bounce back vs. USC? I hope so. I like this group and wanna see them hang at least a banner or two. I’m just losing confidence that our coach can get this turned around.

I just don't understand this point of view. I think people think the grass is always greener and don't realize what they have in a coach.

When Miller arrived, the program was essentially at rock bottom and without any leftover players that were considered elite. I mean, Nic Wise was all we had. Still, in our worst moment Miller coached up the team he had and finished a respectable 16-15. That's entirely a forgettable season. But looking back, it was a remarkable coaching job. The program didn't crater. A year later we were one last second shot away from the Final Four. One shot. That is remarkable considering the roster Miller had to work with. Ever since that first season, Arizona has been the program in the Pac 12. We've contended every year since Miller arrived and won more conference titles than any other program, and it's not even close. I don't think that can be overstated despite the fact that most fans value NCAA tournament performance more than an entire season.

Secondly, Arizona has had unbelievably bad luck. And it takes luck to do well in the NCAA tournament. But over the course of a season, luck will only carry you for a few games. But the bad luck includes Kevin Parrom getting shot during the offseason. He was primed to become an all-conference type player. When he returned, he was a shell of his former self. More bad luck followed with the mind numbing decision of Grant Jerrett to leave school. I know the argument can be rightly made that Miller needs to recruit players that won't pull a stunt like that. That Miller needs to coach his players so they'll want to stay. But there was nothing logical about Jerrett leaving early. And the bad luck was intensified in 2014 when Brandon Ashley went down with a season ending foot injury while we were the #1 team in the country and undefeated at the time. We can all agree that was Miller's best team and certainly Final Four worthy.

I won't get into the bad luck regarding bad calls in crucial games, etc... But the bad luck reared it's ugly head when Ray Smith suffered his career ending injury at the outset of last season. And actually, Smith's injury scuttled not one but two seasons. 2016 instantly became a bust when Smith suffered his fist ACL tear at Arizona. With a healthy Smith, we're not first round toast for Wichita State. And again last year, Smith was poised for a comeback when his career ended. Despite the Trier suspension and a super young roster Miller coached Arizona to a regular season tie with Oregon and won the conference tourney. The Sweet 16 loss felt premature. But with such a young roster and not having Smith (again), Miller was a victim of the high expectations he created by his regular season success.

Finally, I'm tired of reading how incredible Miller has been at recruiting. Markannen was a top 10 recruit. Ayton was a top 10 recruit. No other player is worthy of the hype I always read about and fall for in the offseason. Brandon Randolph is not an elite recruit. Nor is Akot. Or Barcello. I was expecting an unbelievable roster this year based on all the hype. And Miller wasn't the one saying those things. But my eyes don't lie. None of those players has been exceptional. Not even close. Everyone has a Youtube highlight reel that looks special when you're being guarded by slow, 5'10" opponents. Go back and read the hype about Randolph and Akot being 1 and done players. That's laughable right now.

If there's any fair criticism of Miller, it goes back to the point guard situation. We're a rudderless ship this season because of the inability to put a Pac 12 quality player on the floor at that position. Kadeem Allen last year as a point guard wasn't great, but he was serviceable. Not the ideal scenario but still adequate considering the rest of the roster we had.

We've basically traded Ayton for Markannen and and swapped Akot/Randolph/Smith for Kobi Simmons. We're a piss poor defensive team because Alkins has been a shadow of himself (again, more bad injury luck) and Kadeem Allen was without question the one good defensive player from last season. There is no one on the roster that comes close to filling his shoes defensively. And he was arguably the best defender in the Pac 12 a year ago. It's amazing the difference one player can make.

I'm hopeful Miller can get this season turned around. It may be a lost cause based on the super high expectations. But the season points to a continuation of close games because of personnel, not coaching. Miller does not have a team that can play great defense. Three starters are defensive liabilities. And if Alkins isn't totally healthy and is only playing at a diminished level, an argument can be made that 4 starters are poor defenders. That puts a ton of pressure on everyone to make shots and create great offense. And consistent great offense is hard when you don't have great defense creating opportunities. So we'll be up and down the rest of the way.

But none of this points to a justification to discuss getting rid of Sean Miller. If we force him out, it better be because of some really damning evidence from this FBI thing. And it needs to be so bad that no program would want to touch Miller. But to consider cutting ties with him based on performance on the court? Well, that looks a helluva lot like the Ben Howland situation at UCLA. And his image was tarnished despite putting out a pretty good product. I don't want us to pull a move like that.

[Harvey Specter]

Okay, interesting. So I’m not the only one having these thoughts. I love Sean. He’s a good guy and has meant a lot to this program. Just feels like a change may be needed soon. There’s just not enough to show for the unbelievable recruiting success he’s had. Most expected us to steamroll the Pac this year. Oregon lost all their key players from last year. UW has a new coach. Cal has a new coach. UCLA lost half their freshman class to suspensions and withdrawal. Meanwhile, we returned 3 starters from a Pac tourney champion and added Ayton. Randolph and Akot were expected to contribute immediately. It’s always a little unfair doing these assessments when there are quite a few games left. But yesterday was just very dispiriting. 9 point favorite. At freaking McKale. Vs. an unranked team. We can’t lose that game. And yet, they did. Will they bounce back vs. USC? I hope so. I like this group and wanna see them hang at least a banner or two. I’m just losing confidence that our coach can get this turned around.

I just don't understand this point of view. I think people think the grass is always greener and don't realize what they have in a coach.

When Miller arrived, the program was essentially at rock bottom and without any leftover players that were considered elite. I mean, Nic Wise was all we had. Still, in our worst moment Miller coached up the team he had and finished a respectable 16-15. That's entirely a forgettable season. But looking back, it was a remarkable coaching job. The program didn't crater. A year later we were one last second shot away from the Final Four. One shot. That is remarkable considering the roster Miller had to work with. Ever since that first season, Arizona has been the program in the Pac 12. We've contended every year since Miller arrived and won more conference titles than any other program, and it's not even close. I don't think that can be overstated despite the fact that most fans value NCAA tournament performance more than an entire season.

Secondly, Arizona has had unbelievably bad luck. And it takes luck to do well in the NCAA tournament. But over the course of a season, luck will only carry you for a few games. But the bad luck includes Kevin Parrom getting shot during the offseason. He was primed to become an all-conference type player. When he returned, he was a shell of his former self. More bad luck followed with the mind numbing decision of Grant Jerrett to leave school. I know the argument can be rightly made that Miller needs to recruit players that won't pull a stunt like that. That Miller needs to coach his players so they'll want to stay. But there was nothing logical about Jerrett leaving early. And the bad luck was intensified in 2014 when Brandon Ashley went down with a season ending foot injury while we were the #1 team in the country and undefeated at the time. We can all agree that was Miller's best team and certainly Final Four worthy.

I won't get into the bad luck regarding bad calls in crucial games, etc... But the bad luck reared it's ugly head when Ray Smith suffered his career ending injury at the outset of last season. And actually, Smith's injury scuttled not one but two seasons. 2016 instantly became a bust when Smith suffered his fist ACL tear at Arizona. With a healthy Smith, we're not first round toast for Wichita State. And again last year, Smith was poised for a comeback when his career ended. Despite the Trier suspension and a super young roster Miller coached Arizona to a regular season tie with Oregon and won the conference tourney. The Sweet 16 loss felt premature. But with such a young roster and not having Smith (again), Miller was a victim of the high expectations he created by his regular season success.

Finally, I'm tired of reading how incredible Miller has been at recruiting. Markannen was a top 10 recruit. Ayton was a top 10 recruit. No other player is worthy of the hype I always read about and fall for in the offseason. Brandon Randolph is not an elite recruit. Nor is Akot. Or Barcello. I was expecting an unbelievable roster this year based on all the hype. And Miller wasn't the one saying those things. But my eyes don't lie. None of those players has been exceptional. Not even close. Everyone has a Youtube highlight reel that looks special when you're being guarded by slow, 5'10" opponents. Go back and read the hype about Randolph and Akot being 1 and done players. That's laughable right now.

If there's any fair criticism of Miller, it goes back to the point guard situation. We're a rudderless ship this season because of the inability to put a Pac 12 quality player on the floor at that position. Kadeem Allen last year as a point guard wasn't great, but he was serviceable. Not the ideal scenario but still adequate considering the rest of the roster we had.

We've basically traded Ayton for Markannen and and swapped Akot/Randolph/Smith for Kobi Simmons. We're a piss poor defensive team because Alkins has been a shadow of himself (again, more bad injury luck) and Kadeem Allen was without question the one good defensive player from last season. There is no one on the roster that comes close to filling his shoes defensively. And he was arguably the best defender in the Pac 12 a year ago. It's amazing the difference one player can make.

I'm hopeful Miller can get this season turned around. It may be a lost cause based on the super high expectations. But the season points to a continuation of close games because of personnel, not coaching. Miller does not have a team that can play great defense. Three starters are defensive liabilities. And if Alkins isn't totally healthy and is only playing at a diminished level, an argument can be made that 4 starters are poor defenders. That puts a ton of pressure on everyone to make shots and create great offense. And consistent great offense is hard when you don't have great defense creating opportunities. So we'll be up and down the rest of the way.

But none of this points to a justification to discuss getting rid of Sean Miller. If we force him out, it better be because of some really damning evidence from this FBI thing. And it needs to be so bad that no program would want to touch Miller. But to consider cutting ties with him based on performance on the court? Well, that looks a helluva lot like the Ben Howland situation at UCLA. And his image was tarnished despite putting out a pretty good product. I don't want us to pull a move like that.

Exceptional post, zonagrad... I could not agree more with everything you posted.

I find it ironically amusing that those on this board calling for Miller's head are the ones who have likely never excelled in a meaningful way in any endeavor they have pursued. And they are generally the same ones who defended to the end the abysmal-to-mediocre tenure of RichRod.

Winning the conference every other year is not good enough... but winning a division once in 6 years is deserving of an extension & long term contract? Really?

As for the inane notion that "the Arizona brand is responsible for Millers recruiting & success".. I cannot even begin to fathom the degree of delusion that pervades that perspective. Those people who think BB recruits will flock to Tucson as a garden spot (because Lute won a title before any of them were born) are also the ones who argue we cannot compete in FB recruiting because "who wants to go to Tucson"?

And how many coaches worth a shit do you think would be interested in coming to Tucson if we somehow kick to the curb a coach with Miller's resume?

You could not make this stuff up...

[Hank of sb]

Exceptional post, zonagrad... I could not agree more with everything you posted.

I find it ironically amusing that those on this board calling for Miller's head are the ones who have likely never excelled in a meaningful way in any endeavor they have pursued. And they are generally the same ones who defended to the end the abysmal-to-mediocre tenure of RichRod.

Winning the conference every other year is not good enough... but winning a division once in 6 years is deserving of an extension & long term contract? Really?

As for the inane notion that "the Arizona brand is responsible for Millers recruiting & success".. I cannot even begin to fathom the degree of delusion that pervades that perspective. Those people who think BB recruits will flock to Tucson as a garden spot (because Lute won a title before any of them were born) are also the ones who argue we cannot compete in FB recruiting because "who wants to go to Tucson"?

And how many coaches worth a shit do you think would be interested in coming to Tucson if we somehow kick to the curb a coach with Miller's resume?

You could not make this stuff up...

Names please.

As for football, I'd be quoting RR, not any fans. (You know RR: our former coach.) I believe RR said something to the effect, "I've had to get used to being rejected."

As for basketball coaches that might would want to come here you ask? Well, if no coach wants to come here that's a helluva way for our current coach to provide himself job security! That said, I'm of the belief there would plenty of coaches willing to come to Tucson--good ones--even under sanction. A year to rebuild without pressure might be seen as a good thing. A raise is usually seen as a plus. The weather might be a plus. A rabid fan base longing for a new vibe (one like the old one) likely would have a lot of pent up love to give.

Washington's turnaround comes to mind.

[zonagrad]

Exceptional post, zonagrad... I could not agree more with everything you posted.

I find it ironically amusing that those on this board calling for Miller's head are the ones who have likely never excelled in a meaningful way in any endeavor they have pursued. And they are generally the same ones who defended to the end the abysmal-to-mediocre tenure of RichRod.

Winning the conference every other year is not good enough... but winning a division once in 6 years is deserving of an extension & long term contract? Really?

As for the inane notion that "the Arizona brand is responsible for Millers recruiting & success".. I cannot even begin to fathom the degree of delusion that pervades that perspective. Those people who think BB recruits will flock to Tucson as a garden spot (because Lute won a title before any of them were born) are also the ones who argue we cannot compete in FB recruiting because "who wants to go to Tucson"?

And how many coaches worth a shit do you think would be interested in coming to Tucson if we somehow kick to the curb a coach with Miller's resume?

You could not make this stuff up...

Names please.

As for football, I'd be quoting RR, not any fans. (You know RR: our former coach.) I believe RR said something to the effect, "I've had to get used to being rejected."

As for basketball coaches that might would want to come here you ask? Well, if no coach wants to come here that's a helluva way for our current coach to provide himself job security! That said, I'm of the belief there would plenty of coaches willing to come to Tucson--good ones--even under sanction. A year to rebuild without pressure might be seen as a good thing. A raise is usually seen as a plus. The weather might be a plus. A rabid fan base longing for a new vibe (one like the old one) likely would have a lot of pent up love to give.

Washington's turnaround comes to mind.

Nobody want to go through the anxiety of a coaching search. And you'd be crazy and stupid to wish for Miller's departure because you aren't going to find a better replacement. But suit yourself. Tim Floyd is available and I'm sure that would make you happy.

[PHXCATS]

Exceptional post, zonagrad... I could not agree more with everything you posted.

I find it ironically amusing that those on this board calling for Miller's head are the ones who have likely never excelled in a meaningful way in any endeavor they have pursued. And they are generally the same ones who defended to the end the abysmal-to-mediocre tenure of RichRod.

Winning the conference every other year is not good enough... but winning a division once in 6 years is deserving of an extension & long term contract? Really?

As for the inane notion that "the Arizona brand is responsible for Millers recruiting & success".. I cannot even begin to fathom the degree of delusion that pervades that perspective. Those people who think BB recruits will flock to Tucson as a garden spot (because Lute won a title before any of them were born) are also the ones who argue we cannot compete in FB recruiting because "who wants to go to Tucson"?

And how many coaches worth a shit do you think would be interested in coming to Tucson if we somehow kick to the curb a coach with Miller's resume?

You could not make this stuff up...

Names please.

As for football, I'd be quoting RR, not any fans. (You know RR: our former coach.) I believe RR said something to the effect, "I've had to get used to being rejected."

As for basketball coaches that might would want to come here you ask? Well, if no coach wants to come here that's a helluva way for our current coach to provide himself job security! That said, I'm of the belief there would plenty of coaches willing to come to Tucson--good ones--even under sanction. A year to rebuild without pressure might be seen as a good thing. A raise is usually seen as a plus. The weather might be a plus. A rabid fan base longing for a new vibe (one like the old one) likely would have a lot of pent up love to give.

Washington's turnaround comes to mind.

Nobody want to go through the anxiety of a coaching search. And you'd be crazy and stupid to wish for Miller's departure because you aren't going to find a better replacement. But suit yourself. Tim Floyd is available and I'm sure that would make you happy.

Signed Georgia Football

I am not saying fire Miller but it is foolish and false to think there is no chance there is someone better.

Miller is underachieving at Arizona when you factor in history resources and his recruiting. Gotta give him credit for achieving that high level of recruiting but results in the tournament matter not recruiting banners.

And it is extremely hypocritical to attack RR for not meeting expectations when Miller doesn't. Unless you are okay with getting close to goals and failing every time.

I give Miller a few more years and the chance to correct his shitshow that is coming but at some point no final fours and titles for all that Arizona is and has been isn't good enough.

[ChooChooCat]

Who in this thread has called for Miller's head exactly and why must people always confuse constructive non-trolling criticisms as calling for someone's firing?

Also yes the Arizona brand has helped Miller recruit. I provided example A, B, all the way to Z for why that is. Miller deserves credit of course and I have given him as much, but spare me if you think he could land the same level of player he is now at Xavier or Pitt or any other program not at or above our level. I will say Miller has kept the Arizona brand powerful and each party has been beneficial to each other most certainly. Knock it off with disingenuous overcharacterizations of what people are actually saying and be honest already. So frustrating to be read out of context and reading disingenuous representations of what you've said because someone doesn't think the Arizona brand means shit without a coach who didn't build the brand from the ground up, but rather just continued its momentum.

[Beachcat97]

The biggest problem with the “fire Miller” attitude is: and replace him with whom? There is no one who’d be an obvious successor. Do you want Romar? Jeff Capel? Thad Matta? An assistant from an elite program no one’s heard of? This year’s Shaka, whoever that may be? We’re not getting Tony Bennett or Matt Painter or Chris Mack.

The reality is that in spite of Miller’s shortcomings, he remains our best option. A coaching change means being set back a year or two with recruiting and results. Do you wanna wait for that, or stick with our guy and let him build a better roster? As good as this current roster may be, I don’t think these guys play the way Miller wants them to. That’s on him, for sure. So going forward, he needs to make sure he’s got a Kadeem or a TJM-type every damn year. We need excellent defensive players, starting with our PG. PJC is not that guy, as 97 has maintained for the last two years.

It’s fine to criticize Miller, but all things considered, firing him would be bad for the program. Unless he’s found guilty of aiding/abetting Book, he needs to remain our coach, at least for now.

[Hank of sb]

Nobody want to go through the anxiety of a coaching search. And you'd be crazy and stupid to wish for Miller's departure because you aren't going to find a better replacement. But suit yourself. Tim Floyd is available and I'm sure that would make you happy.

What! "Nobody," you suggest.

I don't want to go through another decade of watching an uptight, rigid, overbearing coach hug the the sidelines flailing his arms (mind you, flailing all game long) as the players are trying--yes trying--to please their coach by doing EXACTLY what the coach wants and, in the process, becoming so inhibited the fun gets thrown out the window.

The air that got sucked out of McKale became so claustrophobic Thursday the team seemed to quit. (Did they quit............ or were they just overwhelmed?)

Then the fans left early. Then the TVs were turned off before the game ended leaving everyone to their own thoughts.

That last game was always coming. And even though the sign's of that game's coming have remained present all year, it was still shocking and disturbing whence it came, also eerie.

That game was more a result of a team breakdown than an accident.

And BTW, Trier and Rawle's play seems worse for wear than last year, certainly their defense is worse while being apart of an offense that has no description. The fact those two probably sense this themselves might not be helpful (attitude wise) going forward.

[zonagrad]

Exceptional post, zonagrad... I could not agree more with everything you posted.

I find it ironically amusing that those on this board calling for Miller's head are the ones who have likely never excelled in a meaningful way in any endeavor they have pursued. And they are generally the same ones who defended to the end the abysmal-to-mediocre tenure of RichRod.

Winning the conference every other year is not good enough... but winning a division once in 6 years is deserving of an extension & long term contract? Really?

As for the inane notion that "the Arizona brand is responsible for Millers recruiting & success".. I cannot even begin to fathom the degree of delusion that pervades that perspective. Those people who think BB recruits will flock to Tucson as a garden spot (because Lute won a title before any of them were born) are also the ones who argue we cannot compete in FB recruiting because "who wants to go to Tucson"?

And how many coaches worth a shit do you think would be interested in coming to Tucson if we somehow kick to the curb a coach with Miller's resume?

You could not make this stuff up...

Names please.

As for football, I'd be quoting RR, not any fans. (You know RR: our former coach.) I believe RR said something to the effect, "I've had to get used to being rejected."

As for basketball coaches that might would want to come here you ask? Well, if no coach wants to come here that's a helluva way for our current coach to provide himself job security! That said, I'm of the belief there would plenty of coaches willing to come to Tucson--good ones--even under sanction. A year to rebuild without pressure might be seen as a good thing. A raise is usually seen as a plus. The weather might be a plus. A rabid fan base longing for a new vibe (one like the old one) likely would have a lot of pent up love to give.

Washington's turnaround comes to mind.

Nobody want to go through the anxiety of a coaching search. And you'd be crazy and stupid to wish for Miller's departure because you aren't going to find a better replacement. But suit yourself. Tim Floyd is available and I'm sure that would make you happy.

Signed Georgia Football

I am not saying fire Miller but it is foolish and false to think there is no chance there is someone better.

Miller is underachieving at Arizona when you factor in history resources and his recruiting. Gotta give him credit for achieving that high level of recruiting but results in the tournament matter not recruiting banners.

And it is extremely hypocritical to attack RR for not meeting expectations when Miller doesn't. Unless you are okay with getting close to goals and failing every time.

I give Miller a few more years and the chance to correct his shitshow that is coming but at some point no final fours and titles for all that Arizona is and has been isn't good enough.

How many teams have reached the Final Four from the Pac 12 since Miller's arrival? One. One fucking Oregon team that had the benefit of TWO sixth year seniors on their roster. Oregon had the perfect of all storms break their way with ZERO early defections, when Dorsey or Brooks could've left early and scuttled the whole thing. And guess what? Oregon wasn't even good enough to beat Miller for the regular season title and lost the conference tourney when Miller had lost Ray Smith two consecutive years. You're delusional with your expectations and evaluation. Dana Altman has tons more respect for Miller and our program than even some Arizona fans. He still sees Arizona as THE PROGRAM because of what Miller has re-built. It sucks that Kevin Parrom got shot. And that Brandon Ashley broke his foot. And Ray Smith tore his ACL. Twice. But according to you, that's all Sean Miller's fault. Has it occurred to you that without some of those injuries Miller may have guided Arizona to a few final fours? I'd hate to be an employee working for an individual like you. Because nobody will ever meet your expectations.

[PHXCATS]

The biggest problem with the “fire Miller” attitude is: and replace him with whom? There is no one who’d be an obvious successor. Do you want Romar? Jeff Capel? Thad Matta? An assistant from an elite program no one’s heard of? This year’s Shaka, whoever that may be? We’re not getting Tony Bennett or Matt Painter or Chris Mack.

The reality is that in spite of Miller’s shortcomings, he remains our best option. A coaching change means being set back a year or two with recruiting and results. Do you wanna wait for that, or stick with our guy and let him build a better roster? As good as this current roster may be, I don’t think these guys play the way Miller wants them to. That’s on him, for sure. So going forward, he needs to make sure he’s got a Kadeem or a TJM-type every damn year. We need excellent defensive players, starting with our PG. PJC is not that guy, as 97 has maintained for the last two years.

It’s fine to criticize Miller, but all things considered, firing him would be bad for the program. Unless he’s found guilty of aiding/abetting Book, he needs to remain our coach.

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

[PHXCATS]

Exceptional post, zonagrad... I could not agree more with everything you posted.

I find it ironically amusing that those on this board calling for Miller's head are the ones who have likely never excelled in a meaningful way in any endeavor they have pursued. And they are generally the same ones who defended to the end the abysmal-to-mediocre tenure of RichRod.

Winning the conference every other year is not good enough... but winning a division once in 6 years is deserving of an extension & long term contract? Really?

As for the inane notion that "the Arizona brand is responsible for Millers recruiting & success".. I cannot even begin to fathom the degree of delusion that pervades that perspective. Those people who think BB recruits will flock to Tucson as a garden spot (because Lute won a title before any of them were born) are also the ones who argue we cannot compete in FB recruiting because "who wants to go to Tucson"?

And how many coaches worth a shit do you think would be interested in coming to Tucson if we somehow kick to the curb a coach with Miller's resume?

You could not make this stuff up...

Names please.

As for football, I'd be quoting RR, not any fans. (You know RR: our former coach.) I believe RR said something to the effect, "I've had to get used to being rejected."

As for basketball coaches that might would want to come here you ask? Well, if no coach wants to come here that's a helluva way for our current coach to provide himself job security! That said, I'm of the belief there would plenty of coaches willing to come to Tucson--good ones--even under sanction. A year to rebuild without pressure might be seen as a good thing. A raise is usually seen as a plus. The weather might be a plus. A rabid fan base longing for a new vibe (one like the old one) likely would have a lot of pent up love to give.

Washington's turnaround comes to mind.

Nobody want to go through the anxiety of a coaching search. And you'd be crazy and stupid to wish for Miller's departure because you aren't going to find a better replacement. But suit yourself. Tim Floyd is available and I'm sure that would make you happy.

Signed Georgia Football

I am not saying fire Miller but it is foolish and false to think there is no chance there is someone better.

Miller is underachieving at Arizona when you factor in history resources and his recruiting. Gotta give him credit for achieving that high level of recruiting but results in the tournament matter not recruiting banners.

And it is extremely hypocritical to attack RR for not meeting expectations when Miller doesn't. Unless you are okay with getting close to goals and failing every time.

I give Miller a few more years and the chance to correct his shitshow that is coming but at some point no final fours and titles for all that Arizona is and has been isn't good enough.

How many teams have reached the Final Four from the Pac 12 since Miller's arrival? One. One fucking Oregon team that had the benefit of TWO sixth year seniors on their roster. Oregon had the perfect of all storms break their way with ZERO early defections, when Dorsey or Brooks could've left early and scuttled the whole thing. And guess what? Oregon wasn't even good enough to beat Miller for the regular season title and lost the conference tourney when Miller had lost Ray Smith two consecutive years. You're delusional with your expectations and evaluation. Dana Altman has tons more respect for Miller and our program than even some Arizona fans. He still sees Arizona as THE PROGRAM because of what Miller has re-built. It sucks that Kevin Parrom got shot. And that Brandon Ashley broke his foot. And Ray Smith tore his ACL. Twice. But according to you, that's all Sean Miller's fault. Has it occurred to you that without some of those injuries Miller may have guided Arizona to a few final fours? I'd hate to be an employee working for an individual like you. Because nobody will ever meet your expectations.

1 who fucking cares what the rest of the pac12 is doing. Arizona is notional second tier.
2 Oregon was the pac12 regular season champ. They destroyed UA in the regular season. If you think otherwise enjoy your participation ribbons.
3 injuries happen and lots of teams make the final four with injuries. With BA healthy maybe they do make a final four but they didn't and that's all that matters.
4 everyone who works for me loves me so nice try at an attack but fail just like UA has been under Miller at final fours and national titles

[UAEebs86]

everyone who works for me loves me

Thanks for the Saturday morning chuckle Machina.


I bet you're the most humble manager as well. Now I know why you don't like us making fun of a certain person.

[zonagrad]

The biggest problem with the “fire Miller” attitude is: and replace him with whom? There is no one who’d be an obvious successor. Do you want Romar? Jeff Capel? Thad Matta? An assistant from an elite program no one’s heard of? This year’s Shaka, whoever that may be? We’re not getting Tony Bennett or Matt Painter or Chris Mack.

The reality is that in spite of Miller’s shortcomings, he remains our best option. A coaching change means being set back a year or two with recruiting and results. Do you wanna wait for that, or stick with our guy and let him build a better roster? As good as this current roster may be, I don’t think these guys play the way Miller wants them to. That’s on him, for sure. So going forward, he needs to make sure he’s got a Kadeem or a TJM-type every damn year. We need excellent defensive players, starting with our PG. PJC is not that guy, as 97 has maintained for the last two years.

It’s fine to criticize Miller, but all things considered, firing him would be bad for the program. Unless he’s found guilty of aiding/abetting Book, he needs to remain our coach, at least for now.

How many Final Fours have Tony Bennett, Matt Painter or Chris Mack been to? Where has Purdue been the last five or six years? They've never been past the Sweet 16 under Painter. They were blasted by 30 points last year in the Sweet 16. The two years before that they exited in the first round with one of the losses to Arkansas Little Rock. How do suppose that would sit with Arizona fans if Miller was bounced by UALR?

And before we crown Tony Bennett, how many times has he choked away a Final Four berth. You think Virginia fans have forgotten how his team blew a 15 point lead to Syracuse and scored exactly 8 points in the final nine minutes with a Final Four at stake? You think Virginia fans aren't griping about Tony Bennett's offense like Arizona fans are frustrated with Miller's defense?

I'm behind Miller 100% and then some unless it's shown he made some blatant NCAA violations. And they would have to be really, really bad on the scale to consider firing him. It would have to be so bad that Miller would need to "show cause" to ever get another college job. I'm as diehard a UA fan as they come. I'm beyond frustrated with this year's team and with the point guard situation. I'm frustrated with websites and internet jocks telling me how great a recruit is and speculating on his one and done status, only to be shocked at the talent level when I witness the player in person. But I also understand how tough and competitive it is in college basketball. And what Miller has done at Arizona has been amazing.

[Beachcat97]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

[ChooChooCat]

Tony Bennett, Chris Mack, and Matt Painter are the 3 you really came up with? LOL.

If in the fictional world where Arizona was going to fire Sean Miller they wouldn't target a coach who runs the very same defensive and offensive systems that Miller did nor would they target a Miller protege if they just fired the guy. As far as Painter goes he's a Purdue alum and you really couldn't have picked better than those 3? At least name drop Billy Donovan or something.

[PHXCATS]

everyone who works for me loves me

Thanks for the Saturday morning chuckle Machina.


I bet you're the most humble manager as well. Now I know why you don't like us making fun of a certain person.

Who? Larry fucker Scott who I bash all the time? I just can see what he is and isnt responsible for so I only bash him for the things he controls. RR who I wanted fired last year and said after the asu game if you can get Sumlin you do it that second?

[PHXCATS]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

[zonagrad]

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

You're subtly implying that yes, you think Miller should go if things don't improve quickly.

Correct. Hiring a new coach is an unknown gamble. So it's easy to say we could do better. But the odds are infinitely greater you could do worse. Much worse. Kentucky canned Tubby Smith. And ended up with Billy Gillespie and that disaster. Pitt thought they could take the next big step and forced out Dixon. How's that working out for them? UCLA is stuck with Alford, who is doing just enough to keep his job but isn't coming close to the results of Howland.

And finally, you have no idea if Miller is 100% or 1% responsible for the FBI investigation. From the evidence right now, it looks like Book Richardson is responsible. And if evidence is revealed that says Miller is responsible, then so be it. But right now you have nothing to make such a claim.

And I stand by the argument that you'd be impossible to work for. But I didn't know pizza delivery people had subordinates.

[zonagrad]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

What has Smart done at Texas? How many conference titles? How many NCAA tourney victories? Color me underwhelmed. Hoiberg? Really? Is that your last card or are you holding a few more aces?

[PHXCATS]

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

You're subtly implying that yes, you think Miller should go if things don't improve quickly.

Correct. Hiring a new coach is an unknown gamble. So it's easy to say we could do better. But the odds are infinitely greater you could do worse. Much worse. Kentucky canned Tubby Smith. And ended up with Billy Gillespie and that disaster. Pitt thought they could take the next big step and forced out Dixon. How's that working out for them? UCLA is stuck with Alford, who is doing just enough to keep his job but isn't coming close to the results of Howland.

And finally, you have no idea if Miller is 100% or 1% responsible for the FBI investigation. From the evidence right now, it looks like Book Richardson is responsible. And if evidence is revealed that says Miller is responsible, then so be it. But right now you have nothing to make such a claim.

And I stand by the argument that you'd be impossible to work for. But I didn't know pizza delivery people had subordinates.

Nice personal attack again.

Yeah it must suck to work for someone who helps their employees all the time but also keeps them accountable.

And when I say Miller is 100 percent responsible it is in terms of Arizona. With criminal charges it is unknown but I don't care about that.

[ChooChooCat]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

What has Smart done at Texas? How many conference titles? How many NCAA tourney victories? Color me underwhelmed. Hoiberg? Really? Is that your last card or are you holding a few more aces?

In my fictional fantasy fairy unicorn world where Sean Miller gets shitcanned Chris Beard is my dude. Guy can coach his was off.

[PHXCATS]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

What has Smart done at Texas? How many conference titles? How many NCAA tourney victories? Color me underwhelmed. Hoiberg? Really? Is that your last card or are you holding a few more aces?

Takes time to build a program like you want. See .Miller in 2010 and his ultimate fail in 2012.

Smart has proven he wins when it matters. Miller hasnt

[ChooChooCat]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

What has Smart done at Texas? How many conference titles? How many NCAA tourney victories? Color me underwhelmed. Hoiberg? Really? Is that your last card or are you holding a few more aces?

Takes time to build a program like you want. See .Miller in 2010 and his ultimate fail in 2012.

Smart has proven he wins when it matters. Miller hasnt

Lmao utilizing this logic we should hire Kevin Ollie.

Also outside of Shaka's first NCAA tourney where his team made the Final Four, his next 5 NCAA appearances resulted in losing in the 2nd round (twice) or 1st round (thrice) or not making the tourney at all.

[Beachcat97]

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

No, of course I’m not sure. And it’s true: I could’ve named other guys I respect and who are worthy of consideration for the AZ job.

I guess it raises a larger question about the current appeal of the AZ job. Keep in mind that the FBI scandal is absolutely hurting the status of this program, at least in the short term. This is why Bol is going to OR instead of AZ. If NCAA sanctions are likely, why would a hot coach wanna come to AZ, especially one with no ties whatsoever to the program? Once this blows over, then yes, we’ll get back to being Arizona, and the appeal will be similar to what it was for Miller when he first came to Tucson.

Bottom line: firing Miller right while the scandal is hanging over us would all but rule out the chances of landing a top tier successor. We have to stick with Sean while this plays out. Not just because he’s earned it but because we’re better off with him than without him right now.

[zonagrad]

Quick notes on this post

1 no one is saying fire Miller
2 that is ssimply not true that 100 percent there no chance of doing better. Look at Georgia Football please.
3 Miller is 100 percent responsible for the FBI investigation

We don’t know (3) is true.

And it’s easy to say (2) without naming names.

Are you sure the guys you mentioned won't come? What about Smart or Hoiberg?

And 3 is 100 percent true. Miller hired him Miller kept him through red flags. And Miller is so controlling that you honestly think he doesn't know major things going on?

What has Smart done at Texas? How many conference titles? How many NCAA tourney victories? Color me underwhelmed. Hoiberg? Really? Is that your last card or are you holding a few more aces?

Takes time to build a program like you want. See .Miller in 2010 and his ultimate fail in 2012.

Smart has proven he wins when it matters. Miller hasnt

Yep. It's totally on Miller that he overachieved in 2011. Should've held Derrick Williams back a little bit. Benched him more. Not showcased him and made him the cornerstone of a team that came within an eyelash of the Final Four. A first round exit in 2011 would've been better and would've shown substantial growth from 2010. That way, 2012 would've been much better. Maybe a trip to the second round with DWill. But not too good, because we want to leave growth for DWill's senior season in 2013.

I'm confused. Did the games not matter in the years Shaka Smart did not go to the final four? Are we counting all the games or just the games he wins when a final four is on the line. I'm trying to follow your logic here. If I'm reading you right, then all Miller has to do is reach one single Final Four "when it matters." After that, Arizona can make an occasional NIT. Or lose often in the first round. And that's ok because of that "when it matters" victory. And forget conference championships. Those don't mean anything, right?

[Beachcat97]

I look at what Self has done at KU. 13 straight league titles, but only 2 FFs (and of course a NC). I think it’s reasonable to expect this degree of success at AZ. Okay, okay...maybe not 13 straight freaking Pac titles (that may be crazy talk), but league dominance coupled with multiple FFs over a 10-15 year period. That’s what Lute did, and he arguably did it with weaker recruiting classes than Sean has had lately. I’m fine with giving Sean a while longer; he’s earned the benefit of our doubts. But again, I don’t think what Self is doing at KU is that much different from what we can expect at AZ. Maybe I’m delusional.

[PHXCATS]

Smart has national equity. He made a final four. Miller my has conference equity. If Miller wins the title then misses the tournament the next three years I will still be super happy.

How much longer do you give Miller to make a final four? You can't keep him 25 years with no final fours can you?

Miller has the program ready to be final four favorites every year. He has to break through. There are no more excuses.

And even with dwill blowing up and being the #2 pick there is still zero excuses for not making the tournament in 2012. None at all