Moderators: UAdevil, JMarkJohns
Yes.Bosy Billups wrote:Basically, Pitt couldn't come up with the $10mm to buyout Miller. No one else will take the risk at this point.
Would you trade Miller for Musselman, straight up, right now?
Overall I'd take a fresh start regardless at this point.CalStateTempe wrote:My current feelings towards Musselman are similar to my feelings of Miller when he was at Xavier.
I like.
YupChooChooCat wrote:Overall I'd take a fresh start regardless at this point.CalStateTempe wrote:My current feelings towards Musselman are similar to my feelings of Miller when he was at Xavier.
I like.
i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
Yes.Merkin wrote:I thought Miller's buyout was $500k if left for another job, but $10m if the UA fired him without cause.
It's $5 million if they just decided, "ehh we don't want you anymore."ChooChooCat wrote:Yes.Merkin wrote:I thought Miller's buyout was $500k if left for another job, but $10m if the UA fired him without cause.
I am in this camp for sure. Apples being Apples, I would never trade Musselman for Miller straight up. Miller is a better coach to me. But its all about the fresh start. I tend to be someone who always tries and sees 20 steps ahead and I do not see how this works out well for Arizona or for Miller to stay so therefore to me Musselman is the better option given the place we are in.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
Or, for once, we have 0 expectations and outperform, making it a magical run to the Final Four. You never know!OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.
Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.
I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
Why would Few finally make a move now when he at long last proved to,himself that he can make it at Gonzaga? Does a guy who lives off transfers and foreign imports want to jump into Arizona style recruiting at this point in his career?Newportcat wrote:I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
You know, lifestyle or retirement plans do not change all that much whether you're making $3mm a year or $5mm a year, especially living in Tucson. It's more about how much you can pass down to your kids and grandchildren at that point.Newportcat wrote:I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
At this point Arizona style recruiting is going to be transfers and foreign imports. Sounds like a match made in heaven.legallykenny wrote: Why would Few finally make a move now when he at long last proved to,himself that he can make it at Gonzaga? Does a guy who lives off transfers and foreign imports want to jump into Arizona style recruiting at this point in his career?
Anyone else, they are toast, would retire, give up, etc.TheGreatCatsby wrote:But the question is, what Sean Miller do we have left? He can't recruit, for who knows how long. How long is everybody comfortable waiting until he can sign some incoming freshmen? If we get fired up Sean Miller wanting to mix things up, then sure, but I don't think anyone of us knows how this past year has either damaged Miller personally or his reputation at least going forward as a recruiter.
Seems like the national consensus is people want to believe him but not sure/think he cheated. Hard to see how he can rehabilitate his image very easily even if all false against him. The problem was Book, it's easy, however carelessly, to lump Miller in with him as his assistant when the story broke on Miller.
A lot of times fans talk about fresh start, and it usually comes about in terms of wanting to win more games or end the reign of a tyrant. Miller's not either of those, though on a natural level with all this scandal it feels like we need a fresh start, but we're not exactly sure what if anything he's done. And his tourney performances aren't helping.
As I recall, Oregon took a run at Few when they canned Ernie Kent. Few: "no thanks, all that money is nice, and you have a very nice school, but I like it where I am" (or something like that). Few is a hunting, fishing, outdoorsie guy, with family and friends in Spokane. He has it good where he is, and more money is not his priority. Fugetabout Mark Few.Newportcat wrote:ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
Newportcat wrote: I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
At the time Oregon was a nothing program. I could be way off base and looking through Rose Colored glasses, but Arizona is a trophy job to me especially for someone from the West Coast. Outside of being in the shitty PAC 12 with Larry Scott running the show, Arizona has everything to be an Elite program. Facilities, tradition, rabid fan base, history of success in the NBA, hot chicks, weather outside of summer (When a college coach is living in a gym in Vegas anyways). Maybe Few stays forever at Gonzaga but people thought that about Chris Peterson too. I think Arizona is a very difficult job to turn down for someone on the West Coast.MrMeow wrote:As I recall, Oregon took a run at Few when they canned Ernie Kent. Few: "no thanks, all that money is nice, and you have a very nice school, but I like it where I am" (or something like that). Few is a hunting, fishing, outdoorsie guy, with family and friends in Spokane. He has it good where he is, and more money is not his priority. Fugetabout Mark Few.Newportcat wrote:ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
No, he gives me an Alford vibe. We have the chips to make a better hire.Bosy Billups wrote:Basically, Pitt couldn't come up with the $10mm to buyout Miller. No one else will take the risk at this point.
Would you trade Miller for Musselman, straight up, right now?
Great, because Miller's obit has been written. We're just waiting to fill in the date.Bosy Billups wrote:Anyone else, they are toast, would retire, give up, etc.TheGreatCatsby wrote:But the question is, what Sean Miller do we have left? He can't recruit, for who knows how long. How long is everybody comfortable waiting until he can sign some incoming freshmen? If we get fired up Sean Miller wanting to mix things up, then sure, but I don't think anyone of us knows how this past year has either damaged Miller personally or his reputation at least going forward as a recruiter.
Seems like the national consensus is people want to believe him but not sure/think he cheated. Hard to see how he can rehabilitate his image very easily even if all false against him. The problem was Book, it's easy, however carelessly, to lump Miller in with him as his assistant when the story broke on Miller.
A lot of times fans talk about fresh start, and it usually comes about in terms of wanting to win more games or end the reign of a tyrant. Miller's not either of those, though on a natural level with all this scandal it feels like we need a fresh start, but we're not exactly sure what if anything he's done. And his tourney performances aren't helping.
Miller is not of that kind. Love or hate his style, he is a fighter, warrior, competitor.
My money is on him treating next year like year 1 at Arizona... Garland Junkins (sp?) and all.
I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.
Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.
Holy geez, I didn't even read this far down. Mark Few was the most notorious coach with an Elite Eight ceiling a year ago, and now he's going to save us from our Elite Eight ceiling because he made one Final Four after a decade of early exits with high seeds?Newportcat wrote:I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
In my opinion, the dialogue below sums the situation up:ChooChooCat wrote:What's your definition of immediate success I guess is the question? Am I assuming Arizona could hire a Eric Musselman type and he'd be landing a top 5 class immediately? Of course not. Do I assume Arizona could hire an Eric Musselman type and land a class primarily of 4 stars on the west coast within his first two years and grow from there to landing a 5 star or two in year 3-4? Yes, Yes I do.Pop McKale wrote:I can get on board with this but this whole apparent charade between Robbins and Miller is bothersome to me even if that is the financial reality.ChooChooCat wrote:I don't agree with that at all. I think if we ended up with a new coach he'd have a much easier time recruiting to Arizona than Sean Miller would bar none. The sole reason Arizona is remotely seen as a tainted place is because Sean Miller is the coach at Arizona. Part of that is his fault (Book stuff happened under his watch) and part of it is not (Hi Mark Schlabach), but you can't tell me a coach with a clean slate at Arizona wouldn't be in a better place in regards to recruiting than Sean Miller at the moment.EVCat wrote:
No one can recruit to us right now. If anyone can, it is this guy.
Just because, who would you look at to replace Miller? For the record, I'm not completely convinced that Coach Clean S. Late can come in and have immediate success to the level Arizona loyalists expect/demand.
The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.
Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.
Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?
Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?
I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.
Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.
I have said all along, if Randolph, Lee, and Akot stay (and it appears that they are) alongside Jeter, plus AZ is able to add a transfer or two, and can still bring in a guy like Williams and snag either Doutrive or Akinjo, next year's team could be competitive and make the tournament.Irish27 wrote:Jason Scheer said today that after next year, Miller should have no problem recruiting the highly ranked kids. That is why he needs to bring in 2-3 guys who will contribute right away next year. With a point guard and big man, I see next year's team making the NCAA tournament. I will predict the fans will enjoy next year's team more than this year's. They will be more fun to watch.
Nice . . . a new line of discussion to keep us occupied during a long offseason. Were there fewer issues surrounding the program 9 years ago? I say no. People are overestimating the impact of the current troubles and underestimating how much trouble we were in at the end of Lute’s career and the difficult transition period that followed. We all felt that Arizona was a Program. But there was no proof that Arizona wasn’t just Lute and that we would fall back into the pack when he was no longer the face of the program. The program was in complete disarray. We suffered through multiple mediocre transition coaches. The shadow of Lute was long. We hired multiple alumni as assistant coaches who proved to be way in over their heads (Pastner, Simon, Geary). And yet somehow 9 years and three Elite 8s later (two that easily could or should have been Final Fours) a “bad coach” has established that we were and are something more than Lute. And more than Miller. So I think yes, we are in few for a couple frustrating years. But as a Program, I know Arizona will be back—whether with Miller or some other good coach.midnightx wrote:Few is not coming to Arizona. He wins 30 games a year in a soft conference and is coming off of a final four. Why would he come to AZ knowing that there might be sanctions? Yes, there are advantages at AZ, but he has enough success at Gonzaga. The move would make no sense. He turned down Arizona 9 years ago when there were less issues surrounding the program.
Right now people are pining for Mark Few who has one Final Four and Eric Musselman, who has zero.TatetheGreat wrote:The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.
Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.
Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?
Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?
I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.
Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.
I’m not sure how this makes sense. If all these recruits are getting paid, why would they think that Miller is a crook? If anything he’s Robin Hood to them. Some NBA player mentioned that there was the whiff of slavery about the current ncaa system.dmjcat wrote:I'm with ChooChoo and 97Cats............Time to turn the page.
The deciding factor is whether Miller can successfully recruit going forward. I, for one, have serious doubts about his ability to do so with the Sword of Damocles hanging over the program. When Miller walks into the living room of any recruit today, the first thing the recruits parents are going to think is "This guy is a crook". And its not likely to get better anytime soon. The worst is yet to come. Wait until Book gets convicted (The Feds only bring charges when the case is a slam dunk). The NCAA is going to look at Book the Felon, combined with everything he said on tape, and throw the book at AZ. How will Miller recruit then???
Bottom line, the UA needs to get the scandal in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible. Parting ways with Miller is the first thing we need to do.
Oh, and one more thing..........We should have self sanctioned.
I think he meant "this guy's a crookByJoveByJingle wrote:I’m not sure how this makes sense. If all these recruits are getting paid, why would they think that Miller is a crook? If anything he’s Robin Hood to them. Some NBA player mentioned that there was the whiff of slavery about the current ncaa system.dmjcat wrote:I'm with ChooChoo and 97Cats............Time to turn the page.
The deciding factor is whether Miller can successfully recruit going forward. I, for one, have serious doubts about his ability to do so with the Sword of Damocles hanging over the program. When Miller walks into the living room of any recruit today, the first thing the recruits parents are going to think is "This guy is a crook". And its not likely to get better anytime soon. The worst is yet to come. Wait until Book gets convicted (The Feds only bring charges when the case is a slam dunk). The NCAA is going to look at Book the Felon, combined with everything he said on tape, and throw the book at AZ. How will Miller recruit then???
Bottom line, the UA needs to get the scandal in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible. Parting ways with Miller is the first thing we need to do.
Oh, and one more thing..........We should have self sanctioned.
" not "this guy's a crook 
." Otherwise it sounds more like what a fan would say, not a player. If I was a player and you wanted to give me 150k, I wouldn't get mad, I'd get glad.If Miller left, yes Few would be my first call. I am not saying he is the answer, but to me he is by far our best option in terms of established coach with West Coast ties if Miller were to leave. Few has gotten the Final Four monkey off his back and has worked with far less resources at Gonzaga. I am surprised someone would think Few would not be a good choice to call first. And people here are probably right in that I am a homer to think he would leave gonzaga for usSpaceman Spiff wrote:Holy geez, I didn't even read this far down. Mark Few was the most notorious coach with an Elite Eight ceiling a year ago, and now he's going to save us from our Elite Eight ceiling because he made one Final Four after a decade of early exits with high seeds?Newportcat wrote:I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)ByJoveByJingle wrote:I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.97cats wrote:i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.
just my opinion
My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.
I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.
Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.
When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.
I agree with this. Current problems are no where near as bad as 9 years ago when you could say "Without Lute, Arizona is nothing". Especially with College basketball basically dying outside of the tournament especially on the west coast so legit programs like ours are very rare. Arizona is structurally sound for the long term. We were not in 2009.ByJoveByJingle wrote:Nice . . . a new line of discussion to keep us occupied during a long offseason. Were there fewer issues surrounding the program 9 years ago? I say no. People are overestimating the impact of the current troubles and underestimating how much trouble we were in at the end of Lute’s career and the difficult transition period that followed. We all felt that Arizona was a Program. But there was no proof that Arizona wasn’t just Lute and that we would fall back into the pack when he was no longer the face of the program. The program was in complete disarray. We suffered through multiple mediocre transition coaches. The shadow of Lute was long. We hired multiple alumni as assistant coaches who proved to be way in over their heads (Pastner, Simon, Geary). And yet somehow 9 years and three Elite 8s later (two that easily could or should have been Final Fours) a “bad coach” has established that we were and are something more than Lute. And more than Miller. So I think yes, we are in few for a couple frustrating years. But as a Program, I know Arizona will be back—whether with Miller or some other good coach.midnightx wrote:Few is not coming to Arizona. He wins 30 games a year in a soft conference and is coming off of a final four. Why would he come to AZ knowing that there might be sanctions? Yes, there are advantages at AZ, but he has enough success at Gonzaga. The move would make no sense. He turned down Arizona 9 years ago when there were less issues surrounding the program.
Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?Spaceman Spiff wrote:Right now people are pining for Mark Few who has one Final Four and Eric Musselman, who has zero.TatetheGreat wrote:The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.
Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.
Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?
Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?
I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.
Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.
There is a really, really short list of coaches who are regularly in the Final Four and we ain't getting one of them. I think you're just incorrect. This is about how the replacement is an undefeated hero. When/if he gets here, he'll be hated just the same. Until the games are played, the grass is always greener on the other side.
All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?
You should pick a new closing line. Judging from the critical reasoning you have (or haven't, actually) demonstrated in this thread (especially the "why not an alumni" angle)... it seems quite clear that you are not an attorney. (Critical reasoning Is tested on the LSAT).TatetheGreat wrote:All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?
Thanks for all your contributions to this thread... it made wading through most of the posts worthwhile.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.
Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.
Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?
Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?
I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.
Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.
Of course Miller I mean Jason Scheer would say that...take everything Jason says with a massive grain of salt...trust me from having seen the inner workings of GOAZCATS in the early days, sites like his are basically glorified PR firms for the athletic department. Just another sausage factory.Irish27 wrote:Jason Scheer said today that after next year, Miller should have no problem recruiting the highly ranked kids. That is why he needs to bring in 2-3 guys who will contribute right away next year. With a point guard and big man, I see next year's team making the NCAA tournament. I will predict the fans will enjoy next year's team more than this year's. They will be more fun to watch.
It's alumnus, genius. Why does it seem like you're always on the rag?Harvey Specter wrote:You should pick a new closing line. Judging from the critical reasoning you have (or haven't, actually) demonstrated in this thread (especially the "why not an alumni" angle)... it seems quite clear that you are not an attorney. (Critical reasoning Is tested on the LSAT).TatetheGreat wrote:All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?
I know you are quite proud of your argument above, which is at least moderately interesting - although I do not trust your represented research and do not care to do my own.
On the flip side, has there ever been a coach with Miller's conference (and tourney) championships (% of winning each)... overall winning percentage... recruiting track record.... and overall NCAA success (past 3 seasons notwithstanding) who has been fired? Anywhere?
You think through your arguments in a vacuum...
Ben HowlandHarvey Specter wrote:You should pick a new closing line. Judging from the critical reasoning you have (or haven't, actually) demonstrated in this thread (especially the "why not an alumni" angle)... it seems quite clear that you are not an attorney. (Critical reasoning Is tested on the LSAT).TatetheGreat wrote:All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?
I know you are quite proud of your argument above, which is at least moderately interesting - although I do not trust your represented research and do not care to do my own.
On the flip side, has there ever been a coach with Miller's conference (and tourney) championships (% of winning each)... overall winning percentage... recruiting track record.... and overall NCAA success (past 3 seasons notwithstanding) who has been fired? Anywhere?
You think through your arguments in a vacuum...
Thanks for posting disproven marital rumors and false information about the family. Ever considered applying for a job at ESPN?Newportcat wrote:I had heard a rumor that Sean and his wife were separating but that was about 1.5 months ago....which funny enough feels like 10 years ago. But then she was at the pac 12 tournament and hugging him after the game so thought the rumor was falseBE4RDOWN21 wrote:Has anyone heard the rumor that Amy Miller moved back to Pittsburgh recently?
I think all their kids are out of high school now
