Sean Miller

[Newportcat]

Has anyone heard the rumor that Amy Miller moved back to Pittsburgh recently?

I had heard a rumor that Sean and his wife were separating but that was about 1.5 months ago....which funny enough feels like 10 years ago. But then she was at the pac 12 tournament and hugging him after the game so thought the rumor was false

I think all their kids are out of high school now

Thanks for posting disproven marital rumors and false information about the family. Ever considered applying for a job at ESPN?

PS - Is there any truth to the rumor I heard that you were trying to shtoop your boss's wife? Or maybe it was your subordinate's? I can't remember, but it sounded scandalous...

You just read through this thread and took issue with this post...weird

But since you asked, I own my company so I would never apply for a job again, I don't have a boss so no bosses wife, and all my subordinates are unmarried so no wives to take down. So no truth to those rumors!

[CatFanOneMil]

My god this forum has turned into an old ladies bridge party with all the fucking rumors and innuendo...

We are NOT getting Mark Few, stop pretending like that is even an option...Gonzaga is not going to let him go and he doesn't want to look anywhere else either...not everyone chases the fucking dollar.

The Millers marriage is none of our damn business, anyone posting rumors about it needs a swift kick to the crotch, it's not fan conversation its fucking rumor and if its false or true its bad form to repeat it...fuck that shit.

UA basketball is going to be fine, Miller will cooperate with the NCAA if they had it ot for him Trier would never have played a single post season game, remember who signed off on his PED clearance, it was the fucking NCAA, if they were in a punishing mood his second offense would not even have made it to the appeal process...everyone is freaking out over stuff we cannot control, get a grip.

Miller will recruit, and who knows it seems to me he does some of his best work with less rather than more, 2001 comes to mind...yes one guy went off on DUke but it took a team to beat them and that was not even Millers team...my point is maybe all this talent that he's been recruiting is creating a team that does not fit his fighting style...from what I can tell Miller does better with fighters rather than prima donna's...TJ McConnell is exhibit #A...

I say we back off of expecting the best recruiting class in the world and go back to something a littl emore fundamental...hell Virginia just lost to no one...a team of unranked players just beat the #1 team in the country...and need I mention all the great recruits who have not made it very far in the tourney?

The list is longer than your mommas shopping list...

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

[Biljack]

According to the Star, Miller says he is not a candidate for the Pitt job. I hope he really is and he takes it.
A fresh start for all.

[zonagrad]

According to the Star, Miller says he is not a candidate for the Pitt job. I hope he really is and he takes it.
A fresh start for all.

Well, this post certainly added a lot to the conversation.

[MrMeow]

"At the time Oregon was a nothing program. I could be way off base and looking through Rose Colored glasses, but Arizona is a trophy job to me especially for someone from the West Coast. Outside of being in the shitty PAC 12 with Larry Scott running the show, Arizona has everything to be an Elite program. Facilities, tradition, rabid fan base, history of success in the NBA, hot chicks, weather outside of summer (When a college coach is living in a gym in Vegas anyways). Maybe Few stays forever at Gonzaga but people thought that about Chris Peterson too. I think Arizona is a very difficult job to turn down for someone on the West Coast."

I appreciate your enthusiasm, Newport, but Mark Few doesn't care about any of that stuff. He cares about what he has in Spokane, and it can't be replaced in Tucson. Dead horse.

If you are in sales (everyone is, whether they realize it or not), please remember to deliver what the prospect wants, not what you wish he wants.

[phenom5]

Didn't UA kind of make a half-assed run at Few before Miller was ultimately hired? I mean, sure, if you have a vacancy at a desirable west coast P12 school, you make a call to Few. But at this point, you probably don't put too many of your proverbial eggs in that basket.

[Newportcat]

I think I was pretty clear in stating that if Miller were to leave (again not advocating him being fired because we do not have the buyout money to fire him and we have already gone all in on him but would prefer him to leave for another job) Mark few would be my first call. And pretty clear I said I might be very naive to think we would even have a chance to get him. But I would personally make the call and have clear back up plans too.

Now it’s clear to me Miller is staying which it is what is.

I know few would be a very hard sale, I have stated such but I do believe our product for a west coast based coach is really special. So I make the call knowing it is a hard sale. Very strong chance he says no thanks but never hurts to try. Again only if Miller leaves.

Miller is the current coach but still have not heard someone give me a logical and rational argument for how we succeed with him going forward. Maybe only thing is go after lower ranked recruits which is a strategy for sure but seems like you are betting on a lot of luck.

Because taking a step back it does feel like to me we have a coach with a reputation for being dirty and crapping out in the tourney. I am not saying it’s fair he has that reputation but that is now his reputation whether we all like it or not. And that is the worst reputation I can think of to have. In terms of sales, every opposing coach will Hammer both to recruits about why not Arizona. And that scares me

In the end my belief is our program will be fine but just concerned it will take longer to come back with Miller staying. Hopefully I am wrong and if I am I will happily eat crow.

[IrishAzCat]

My god this forum has turned into an old ladies bridge party with all the fucking rumors and innuendo...

We are NOT getting Mark Few, stop pretending like that is even an option...Gonzaga is not going to let him go and he doesn't want to look anywhere else either...not everyone chases the fucking dollar.

The Millers marriage is none of our damn business, anyone posting rumors about it needs a swift kick to the crotch, it's not fan conversation its fucking rumor and if its false or true its bad form to repeat it...fuck that shit.

UA basketball is going to be fine, Miller will cooperate with the NCAA if they had it ot for him Trier would never have played a single post season game, remember who signed off on his PED clearance, it was the fucking NCAA, if they were in a punishing mood his second offense would not even have made it to the appeal process...everyone is freaking out over stuff we cannot control, get a grip.

Miller will recruit, and who knows it seems to me he does some of his best work with less rather than more, 2001 comes to mind...yes one guy went off on DUke but it took a team to beat them and that was not even Millers team...my point is maybe all this talent that he's been recruiting is creating a team that does not fit his fighting style...from what I can tell Miller does better with fighters rather than prima donna's...TJ McConnell is exhibit #A...

I say we back off of expecting the best recruiting class in the world and go back to something a littl emore fundamental...hell Virginia just lost to no one...a team of unranked players just beat the #1 team in the country...and need I mention all the great recruits who have not made it very far in the tourney?

The list is longer than your mommas shopping list...

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

[ChooChooCat]

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

I mean that doesn't show any growth though does it? So ultimately our great answer to our current failures on the court is to recruit less talented players to play Miller ball as opposed to recruiting the most talented players and adapting to their strengths/weaknesses? Good christ I wish I could get $3.5 million per to just run a written out system.

This isn't planned change either, it's forced upon us change. There's a huge difference between doing some self reflection and changing course willingly and merely waking up one and and saying well shit we're stuck doing it this way now so let's roll with it I guess. One you genuinely want to do and the other you're stuck doing. The psychology of that certainly matters.

Bear Down with Miller Ball and Ehhhhh players though!

[MrMeow]

My god this forum has turned into an old ladies bridge party with all the fucking rumors and innuendo...

We are NOT getting Mark Few, stop pretending like that is even an option...Gonzaga is not going to let him go and he doesn't want to look anywhere else either...not everyone chases the fucking dollar.

The Millers marriage is none of our damn business, anyone posting rumors about it needs a swift kick to the crotch, it's not fan conversation its fucking rumor and if its false or true its bad form to repeat it...fuck that shit.

UA basketball is going to be fine, Miller will cooperate with the NCAA if they had it ot for him Trier would never have played a single post season game, remember who signed off on his PED clearance, it was the fucking NCAA, if they were in a punishing mood his second offense would not even have made it to the appeal process...everyone is freaking out over stuff we cannot control, get a grip.

Miller will recruit, and who knows it seems to me he does some of his best work with less rather than more, 2001 comes to mind...yes one guy went off on DUke but it took a team to beat them and that was not even Millers team...my point is maybe all this talent that he's been recruiting is creating a team that does not fit his fighting style...from what I can tell Miller does better with fighters rather than prima donna's...TJ McConnell is exhibit #A...

I say we back off of expecting the best recruiting class in the world and go back to something a littl emore fundamental...hell Virginia just lost to no one...a team of unranked players just beat the #1 team in the country...and need I mention all the great recruits who have not made it very far in the tourney?

The list is longer than your mommas shopping list...

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

The profane voice of reason.

[dcZONAfan]

Basically, Pitt couldn't come up with the $10mm to buyout Miller. No one else will take the risk at this point.

Would you trade Miller for Musselman, straight up, right now?

Yes.

I don’t believe Miller has the creativity or flexibility to win the big one. We have all the talent in the world, but he’s always so reluctant just to “let the talent play“.

Hilarious. You know who lets the talent play? Alford. And Hurley.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.

Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?

Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?

I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.

Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.

The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.

Right now people are pining for Mark Few who has one Final Four and Eric Musselman, who has zero.

There is a really, really short list of coaches who are regularly in the Final Four and we ain't getting one of them. I think you're just incorrect. This is about how the replacement is an undefeated hero. When/if he gets here, he'll be hated just the same. Until the games are played, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?

Issue 1 is that Arizona fans emphasize Final Fours to the exclusion of all else. An easy recent blue blood example is Tom Crean, who had less success than Miller by a long shot. It was only 9 years, though. Look at blue blood programs (and there aren't many, and we are not included as a blue blood, IMO) and having a 10 year plus run basically means a HOF career. Name me a blue blood coach with over a 10 year history who is not HOF.

Issue 2 is the continual rewriting of history to dog Miller. The 7 year rebuild was a fairly common opinion when he took over here. He rebuilt faster, and now that's used against him in the 10 year argument. Arizona was a hair from starting Wise, Fogg, Judkins, Horne and Jacobson and that year is one you argue should be held against him for not making a Final Four? Criticism of Miller is intellectually dishonest when people don't acknowledge the state Arizona was in when he took over.

Issue 3 is you just ignore examples that don't fit your mold. Few/Gonzaga. Leonard Hamilton has been at FSU almost 20 years with zero FF's. Staying in Florida, Larranaga is in no danger at Miami despite more FBI indictments than Final Fours. Bruce Pearl didn't make 10 years because he got a personal NCAA ban, but he's been at 2 programs over 10 years with no FF. There are plenty of extended tenures of coaches who didn't make Final Fours.

[zonagrad]

The so-called 5* players don't seem to be worth the return on investment. I think these players like Kobi Simmons and Rawle Alkins are 5* based on their perceived potential, but not for who they are when they arrive.

To me, a 5* is an immediate difference maker, someone who can step in and start over a 3rd or 4th year 4* or 3* star. But our 5* haven't been that good. Not even close.
What good is taking Simmons or Alkins when they still need a few years of development?

[EVCat]

So much twitter and "premium" bullshit and guessing being thrown around on this thread.

And anger...that will subside. Sean Miller is here for a while. Sean Miller has won here (that fucking marketing tool "Final Four" being the judge of a coaches worth in a one and done tournament with 6 rounds is amazingly silly to me, especially since final 8 will get you a College World Series T-Shirt, and in only 123ish programs, a bowl game that used to be played on NYD will make a fan base proud. 3 Elite Eights is better performance than a single Final Four with failure. And, yes, I know we are in a 2-in-3 year first round loss. Look at Xavier this year, though...maybe they were pretty fucking good by the end of last year, huh?). And if we are to win again soon, it will be with him.

[ChooChooCat]

The so-called 5* players don't seem to be worth the return on investment. I think these players like Kobi Simmons and Rawle Alkins are 5* based on their perceived potential, but not for who they are when they arrive.

To me, a 5* is an immediate difference maker, someone who can step in and start over a 3rd or 4th year 4* or 3* star. But our 5* haven't been that good. Not even close.
What good is taking Simmons or Alkins when they still need a few years of development?

1. There was no point in taking Kobi Simmons considering he was always a one and done and wasn't good enough to be.
2. What good was taking Brandon Ashley or Rondae Hollis-Jefferson when they still needed some years of development then?

Silly take man.

[EVCat]

The so-called 5* players don't seem to be worth the return on investment. I think these players like Kobi Simmons and Rawle Alkins are 5* based on their perceived potential, but not for who they are when they arrive.

To me, a 5* is an immediate difference maker, someone who can step in and start over a 3rd or 4th year 4* or 3* star. But our 5* haven't been that good. Not even close.
What good is taking Simmons or Alkins when they still need a few years of development?

Rondae was a 5 star.

Aaron Gordon was a 5 star

Kaleb Tarczewski was a 5 star

Nick Johnson was a 5 star.

Lauri Markkanan was a 5 star.

Brandon Ashley was a 5 star

Solomon Hill was a very high 4 star.

Mark Lyons was a very high 4 star

Dusan Ristic was a 4 star

I wouldn't have wanted to miss Deandre Ayton's development

The teams that have 2 and 3 stars have them because they cannot get 4 and 5 stars. Do you have to be a bit more selective for fit? Maybe. Maybe shy away from guys that have no motor...except that was a knock on Deandre, and was bullshit. This staff deserves some of the credit for refining his game and getting him engaged for most of the game.

Some will dismiss "yeah...where did all of that get us?" Well, prior to the current backcourt, it got us an average of a 2nd weekend, to the elite 8 3 times in 5 years, and rebuilt this program from the crater left after the Lute Hokey Pokey...

I want effort guys too, and I think Sean can find the TJ McConnell's. I also think he fell in love with beating everyone in recruiting...Lute flipped that switch in the 2000's too, where the old "team has to vote on offering a player" flew out the window faster than a fist to David Bagga's face. He will have to adjust.

But it is crazy to say "we want less talented players so we can be like Utah or maybe Buffalo and have good teams every 4 years and maybe go far." Look who is in the Final Four and their player ratings year to year.

Get the best. Mold them. Avoid trouble players.

[Spaceman Spiff]

The so-called 5* players don't seem to be worth the return on investment. I think these players like Kobi Simmons and Rawle Alkins are 5* based on their perceived potential, but not for who they are when they arrive.

To me, a 5* is an immediate difference maker, someone who can step in and start over a 3rd or 4th year 4* or 3* star. But our 5* haven't been that good. Not even close.
What good is taking Simmons or Alkins when they still need a few years of development?

I think you're blurring what you want 5 stars to be vs what 5 stars actually are. Both Rawle and Kobi were late teens around 20th ranking. There are usually about 5-10 instant impact one and done kids per class. In the late teens and early 20's, those guys usually are not dominators right off.

The guys in that range this year were Nick Richards, Kris Wilkes and Jaylen Hands. I couldn't use 19 and 20 because both Bowen and Preston were ineligible. Richards, Wilkes and Hands gave contributions similar to Rawle and Kobi, IMO. Decent, but not immediate dominators.

[NYCat]

Duke, Kentucky and occasionally Kansas gets all the 5★s that are surefire lottery picks. Arizona has gotten Gordon, Johnson, Ayton.

My theory is they're not worth it if they're one and done and not lottery picks. But you want 5★s that stay multiple years like Ashley, Tarczewski, Trier, then they're worth it. It's up to the coach to scout to see who needs some development but not one and done and fits the system.

[EVCat]

Duke, Kentucky and occasionally Kansas gets all the 5★s that are surefire lottery picks. Arizona has gotten Gordon, Johnson, Ayton.

My theory is they're not worth it if they're one and done and not lottery picks. But you want 5★s that stay multiple years like Ashley, Tarczewski, Trier, then they're worth it. It's up to the coach to scout to see who needs some development but not one and done and fits the system.

You need a crystal ball for that.

Did you see Derrick Williams being a 2 year player? He was a 3/4 star.

Did you think Zeus was a 4 year player when he got here? He didn't.

Did you see Grant Jerrett declaring after his freshman year? No one did.

Alonzo Trier didn't have plans to be here for 3 years. Last year's suspension happened.

When we started on Lauri Markkanen, no one knew he was a one-and-done. That development happened really late in the process.

There is the rare Ayton, or maybe even AG and Stanley (who I forgot on my list...and both flirted with staying) that you know is gone after one year, but those three are players I am very happy to have had here. You have to have 4 year players around them. We do.

We had 2 seniors and a junior starting for us this year. We were not young.

[sirhamsalot]

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

I mean that doesn't show any growth though does it? So ultimately our great answer to our current failures on the court is to recruit less talented players to play Miller ball as opposed to recruiting the most talented players and adapting to their strengths/weaknesses? Good christ I wish I could get $3.5 million per to just run a written out system.

This isn't planned change either, it's forced upon us change. There's a huge difference between doing some self reflection and changing course willingly and merely waking up one and and saying well shit we're stuck doing it this way now so let's roll with it I guess. One you genuinely want to do and the other you're stuck doing. The psychology of that certainly matters.

Bear Down with Miller Ball and Ehhhhh players though!

I don't see how recruiting 3-4* guys to fit your system will be better than recruiting the best available talent. Virginia recruits primarily 3-4* guys to fit Bennett's system, except for the anomaly of 2016 for them. They also have a history of early exits from the big dance and also just suffered the biggest upset in tournament history. Our best years under Miller were when we went with the best available talent (who also play defense). Zeus, Ashley, Gordon, NJ, RHJ were all exceptional talents who played defense. The knock on those teams were that the offense wasn't good enough to win a championship. We went out and got offense, but no defense. What we need is to recruit the most talented players that help us achieve balance.

[Newportcat]

Miller will recruit, and who knows it seems to me he does some of his best work with less rather than more, 2001 comes to mind...yes one guy went off on DUke but it took a team to beat them and that was not even Millers team...my point is maybe all this talent that he's been recruiting is creating a team that does not fit his fighting style...from what I can tell Miller does better with fighters rather than prima donna's...TJ McConnell is exhibit #A...

What does our 2001 team have to do with Sean Miller????

[ByJoveByJingle]

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

I mean that doesn't show any growth though does it? So ultimately our great answer to our current failures on the court is to recruit less talented players to play Miller ball as opposed to recruiting the most talented players and adapting to their strengths/weaknesses? Good christ I wish I could get $3.5 million per to just run a written out system.

This isn't planned change either, it's forced upon us change. There's a huge difference between doing some self reflection and changing course willingly and merely waking up one and and saying well shit we're stuck doing it this way now so let's roll with it I guess. One you genuinely want to do and the other you're stuck doing. The psychology of that certainly matters.

Bear Down with Miller Ball and Ehhhhh players though!

I don't see how recruiting 3-4* guys to fit your system will be better than recruiting the best available talent. Virginia recruits primarily 3-4* guys to fit Bennett's system, except for the anomaly of 2016 for them. They also have a history of early exits from the big dance and also just suffered the biggest upset in tournament history. Our best years under Miller were when we went with the best available talent (who also play defense). Zeus, Ashley, Gordon, NJ, RHJ were all exceptional talents who played defense. The knock on those teams were that the offense wasn't good enough to win a championship. We went out and got offense, but no defense. What we need is to recruit the most talented players that help us achieve balance.

Yeah it’s all the more frustrating when you remember some of the issues that ultimately tripped us up. For example, if Gordon could just have hit his free throws at a rate commensurate with the rest of his shooting ability we would have been in a Final Four. I’m sure every team that’s been to the Elite Eight without breaking through feels the same way. But man we’ve been snake bit and it has little to do with coaching or being too tight. Nick Johnson didn’t commit an offensive foul, Aaron should have made more free throws, Wisconsin has never and will never shoot like that again even unguarded. That’s life.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Duke, Kentucky and occasionally Kansas gets all the 5★s that are surefire lottery picks. Arizona has gotten Gordon, Johnson, Ayton.

My theory is they're not worth it if they're one and done and not lottery picks. But you want 5★s that stay multiple years like Ashley, Tarczewski, Trier, then they're worth it. It's up to the coach to scout to see who needs some development but not one and done and fits the system.

It just isn't an exact science. I was always shocked RHJ stayed for a sophomore year. He had great physical measurables and would have gone in the first round as a freshman, potentially higher than he did as a soph.

Then you have guys like Lauri, who outperformed expectations and played into the lottery. Then there are your Triers, who was supposed to be set on one and done and was here three years.

[zonagrad]

As a whole, Arizona seems to have more recruits leave early and gets a lesser return on that brief relationship. Alkins & Trier were about the 4th or 5th best guards on the floor vs. Buffalo. And the same was true last year vs. Xavier.

Simmons couldn't even start for us once Trier returned but he still leaves early?

I think fans are tired of the roster turnover, especially with such limited tourney success.

[BE4RDOWN21]

I want more team ball. More of '13-'14. I want tenacity on the defensive end. I'm sure we are all tired of seeing less talented players drive with clear paths to the rim.

[NYCat]

Duke, Kentucky and occasionally Kansas gets all the 5★s that are surefire lottery picks. Arizona has gotten Gordon, Johnson, Ayton.

My theory is they're not worth it if they're one and done and not lottery picks. But you want 5★s that stay multiple years like Ashley, Tarczewski, Trier, then they're worth it. It's up to the coach to scout to see who needs some development but not one and done and fits the system.

It just isn't an exact science. I was always shocked RHJ stayed for a sophomore year. He had great physical measurables and would have gone in the first round as a freshman, potentially higher than he did as a soph.

Then you have guys like Lauri, who outperformed expectations and played into the lottery. Then there are your Triers, who was supposed to be set on one and done and was here three years.

Depending on the year and the strength or weakness of a class, you take only top 10-15 5★s (mostly only top 10 prospects) and pass on everyone else, unless it's a necessity (say PG this year).

You fill out the roster with the best long, athletic, versatile wings that can play/defend multiple positions you can land. And you compliment them with a likely lottery pick.

[Timmy1973]

What does our 2001 team have to do with Sean Miller????

I think he meant 2011 (AZ vs. Duke).

[97cats]

I want more team ball. More of '13-'14. I want tenacity on the defensive end. I'm sure we are all tired of seeing less talented players drive with clear paths to the rim.

and where do you think all of this starts?????

[Spaceman Spiff]

As a whole, Arizona seems to have more recruits leave early and gets a lesser return on that brief relationship. Alkins & Trier were about the 4th or 5th best guards on the floor vs. Buffalo. And the same was true last year vs. Xavier.

Simmons couldn't even start for us once Trier returned but he still leaves early?

I think fans are tired of the roster turnover, especially with such limited tourney success.

Kobi's started 5 NBA games this year and been a decent rotation player for the Grizzlies. I was not sold on his decision when he left, but it has not gone poorly.

At least as a fan, I don't necessarily mind roster turnover with players going pro. I like the fact that I can look at NBA box scores and find an ex-Wildcat in almost every game. Selfishly, woud I want them here? Yeah, but that's not the case for anyone in 2018. Tony Bradley started zero games and left UNC after one year, and UNC has been very good at keeping players. It happens.

[NYCat]

I want more team ball. More of '13-'14. I want tenacity on the defensive end. I'm sure we are all tired of seeing less talented players drive with clear paths to the rim.

and where do you think all of this starts?????

Point of attack

[97cats]

I want more team ball. More of '13-'14. I want tenacity on the defensive end. I'm sure we are all tired of seeing less talented players drive with clear paths to the rim.

and where do you think all of this starts?????

Point of attack

yes -- thank you

[Spaceman Spiff]

I want more team ball. More of '13-'14. I want tenacity on the defensive end. I'm sure we are all tired of seeing less talented players drive with clear paths to the rim.

and where do you think all of this starts?????

Point of attack

This is a big reason why I'm not as down on our 18-19 prospects as some. We lacked a lot in just the straight up defending this year. If guys like Akot, Lee, Jeter and Randolph take the challenge of locking a guy down personally, we are already ahead of 17-18.

This year, it seemed like everyone just stared at the people around them hoping someone else would step up.

[97cats]

This year, it seemed like everyone just stared at the people around them hoping someone else would step up.

yep, and it didnt help that Arizona was playing 4 on 5 either, with the quasi 5th player (responsible for setting the tone and edge) playing the most important position on the floor.

[Postmaster]

Thought you meant the head coach

[Beachcat97]

I have a hard time putting this on PJC. Miller wanted Duval. Year before that I'm pretty sure we offered Fox and Frank Jackson. So it's not as though Miller wasn't doing what he could to keep PJC as a bench player and start a more talented player.

Just goes to show the absolute importance of the PG position. Miller's best years here were with TJM. That's not a coincidence.

It also means getting BW to recommit would be HUGE.

[Merkin]

This year, it seemed like everyone just stared at the people around them hoping someone else would step up.

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

[Beachcat97]

This year, it seemed like everyone just stared at the people around them hoping someone else would step up.

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

That's strange. Lauri obviously loves to shoot it, and good things happen when he does.

Is there something about Miller's presence/style that tightens our guys up at critical moments?

[EVCat]

This year, it seemed like everyone just stared at the people around them hoping someone else would step up.

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

That's strange. Lauri obviously loves to shoot it, and good things happen when he does.

Is there something about Miller's presence/style that tightens our guys up at critical moments?

There was a dominating force on the floor...not dominating the game, though he did for a big, but dominating.

I believe our freshmen this year were, by and large, ball-hawked out of existence when they shared the floor...

[97cats]

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

or go look at Wichita State and Buffalo as well as Xavier -- the exact same thing happened, all three games are a carbon copy.

Arizona's guards (specifically the PG) were bullied and dominated, making it almost impossible at times to even advance the ball past half court, let alone getting organized and into into the proper rhythm and offensive sets.

there was no control of any of those games from the point of attack and thus players (Lauri, Ayton, Trier, etc.) who rely on others to deliver a post pass, rub off screens, slide off down cuts, and rely on organization and execution to get their offense were stunted by the fact that Arizona started its offense 10-15 seconds into the shot clock and 35-50 ft from the basket.

the game-plan the last three years in the NCAA's was simple, attack Arizona's guards and muscle and physically impose Xavier/Wichita St/Buffalo's will against them and when the opportunity attack Cartwright specifically from baseline to baseline right in the middle of his chest always and whenever in the game.

i challenge any of you to go back and watch the tape -- its fucking pathetic.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This year, it seemed like everyone just stared at the people around them hoping someone else would step up.

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

I'm just not sure that was ever in Lauri's personality. I remember my biggest criticism of him was always that he let the game come to him too much for such a talented guy. He would take the shots that were there instead of just grabbing the ball and seizing control.

If Lauri had had Allonzo's mindset, he would have been NPOY.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

or go look at Wichita State and Buffalo as well as Xavier -- the exact same thing happened, all three games are a carbon copy.

Arizona's guards (specifically the PG) were bullied and dominated, making it almost impossible at times to even advance the ball past half court, let alone getting organized and into into the proper rhythm and offensive sets.

there was no control of any of those games from the point of attack and thus players (Lauri, Ayton, Trier, etc.) who rely on others to deliver a post pass, rub off screens, slide off down cuts, and rely on organization and execution to get their offense were stunted by the fact that Arizona started its offense 10-15 seconds into the shot clock and 35-50 ft from the basket.

the game-plan the last three years in the NCAA's was simple, attack Arizona's guards and muscle and physically impose Xavier/Wichita St/Buffalo's will against them and when the opportunity attack Cartwright specifically from baseline to baseline right in the middle of his chest always and whenever in the game.

i challenge any of you to go back and watch the tape -- its fucking pathetic.

In all those games, when **** got real, we got dictated to. That was my big issue with PJC. He was never equipped to do more than take what was there.

It's not his fault, it's a role he was never built for. For his flaws, Zo was the only guy we had these last two years who would constantly try to attack back.

[EVCat]

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

or go look at Wichita State and Buffalo as well as Xavier -- the exact same thing happened, all three games are a carbon copy.

Arizona's guards (specifically the PG) were bullied and dominated, making it almost impossible at times to even advance the ball past half court, let alone getting organized and into into the proper rhythm and offensive sets.

there was no control of any of those games from the point of attack and thus players (Lauri, Ayton, Trier, etc.) who rely on others to deliver a post pass, rub off screens, slide off down cuts, and rely on organization and execution to get their offense were stunted by the fact that Arizona started its offense 10-15 seconds into the shot clock and 35-50 ft from the basket.

the game-plan the last three years in the NCAA's was simple, attack Arizona's guards and muscle and physically impose Xavier/Wichita St/Buffalo's will against them and when the opportunity attack Cartwright specifically from baseline to baseline right in the middle of his chest always and whenever in the game.

i challenge any of you to go back and watch the tape -- its fucking pathetic.

I'd agree with Buffalo and WSU...they were carbon copies.

We destroyed Xavier's man defense early, though. They went zone, then eventually packed that zone to grade school levels and all but asked us to shoot from 3...they packed tight as a tourniquet. And we couldn't hit shit. They came out of it once more and we toasted them, so they packed it back in. Their only chance in that game was to pray we missed open shots. And we did. And blew an 8 point lead under the 4 minute time out.

[PHXCATS]

I think it is total bs, but there is a lot of chatter today in Phoenix about Miller to the Suns

[midnightx]

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

or go look at Wichita State and Buffalo as well as Xavier -- the exact same thing happened, all three games are a carbon copy.

Arizona's guards (specifically the PG) were bullied and dominated, making it almost impossible at times to even advance the ball past half court, let alone getting organized and into into the proper rhythm and offensive sets.

there was no control of any of those games from the point of attack and thus players (Lauri, Ayton, Trier, etc.) who rely on others to deliver a post pass, rub off screens, slide off down cuts, and rely on organization and execution to get their offense were stunted by the fact that Arizona started its offense 10-15 seconds into the shot clock and 35-50 ft from the basket.

the game-plan the last three years in the NCAA's was simple, attack Arizona's guards and muscle and physically impose Xavier/Wichita St/Buffalo's will against them and when the opportunity attack Cartwright specifically from baseline to baseline right in the middle of his chest always and whenever in the game.

i challenge any of you to go back and watch the tape -- its fucking pathetic.

I'd agree with Buffalo and WSU...they were carbon copies.

We destroyed Xavier's man defense early, though. They went zone, then eventually packed that zone to grade school levels and all but asked us to shoot from 3...they packed tight as a tourniquet. And we couldn't hit shit. They came out of it once more and we toasted them, so they packed it back in. Their only chance in that game was to pray we missed open shots. And we did. And blew an 8 point lead under the 4 minute time out.

It was painful to watch. While AZ was out of sync throughout that game, I thought they would pull it out, but as I watched I also thought they had no chance versus Gonzaga if they were to win. And Gonzaga was not a great team, but AZ was floundering on offense and Gonzaga was going to exploit them. Xavier as it turns out, did it first.

[midnightx]

I think it is total bs, but there is a lot of chatter today in Phoenix about Miller to the Suns

Can’t see it. Ayton to the Suns, yes. If the Suns are able to draft Ayton and bring in Aaron Gordon in the offseason as rumored, I may have to start watching them again.

[Bear Down Vegas]

Last season too, look at the Xavier game. Even Lauri had no interest in shooting the last 8 minutes. He passed the rock as soon as he got it.

or go look at Wichita State and Buffalo as well as Xavier -- the exact same thing happened, all three games are a carbon copy.

Arizona's guards (specifically the PG) were bullied and dominated, making it almost impossible at times to even advance the ball past half court, let alone getting organized and into into the proper rhythm and offensive sets.

there was no control of any of those games from the point of attack and thus players (Lauri, Ayton, Trier, etc.) who rely on others to deliver a post pass, rub off screens, slide off down cuts, and rely on organization and execution to get their offense were stunted by the fact that Arizona started its offense 10-15 seconds into the shot clock and 35-50 ft from the basket.

the game-plan the last three years in the NCAA's was simple, attack Arizona's guards and muscle and physically impose Xavier/Wichita St/Buffalo's will against them and when the opportunity attack Cartwright specifically from baseline to baseline right in the middle of his chest always and whenever in the game.

i challenge any of you to go back and watch the tape -- its fucking pathetic.

97 - you are my favorite. You know this. I have a hard time remembering disagreeing with you & the couple times we've shared drinks & games have been fantastic. I do wonder though - because we haven't spoken a lot recently & I could have missed posts - how does the problem at PG the last couple years translate to, "It's time for a fresh start" or "turn the page"?

I'm still at ride or die with Coach Miller. I think he's the best option we have - and I don't think it's even a bad option - flaws & mistakes & all. Am I misreading something?

Cheers,

BDV

[97cats]

97 - you are my favorite. You know this. I have a hard time remembering disagreeing with you & the couple times we've shared drinks & games have been fantastic. I do wonder though - because we haven't spoken a lot recently & I could have missed posts - how does the problem at PG the last couple years translate to, "It's time for a fresh start" or "turn the page"?

I'm still at ride or die with Coach Miller. I think he's the best option we have - and I don't think it's even a bad option - flaws & mistakes & all. Am I misreading something?

Cheers,

BDV

first i dont think youre misreading anything, i can fully understand why you still feel this way about Miller and im sure there are far more of you than me, i appreciate that.

as for the PG, it has nothing to do with the quotes above other than the gaping hole at that spot was the beginning of the downturn on the floor, and led to so much of the problems for Arizona both on/off (accountability, chemistry, leadership, etc.) the floor including the NCAA Tournament results that consequently has been one of the black eyes against Miller (imo) as we sit here today.

the larger issue is the situation with Book and the FBI and how Miller is perceived across the college basketball landscape, mesh that together with the off court issues and noise in Tucson and the failed performance on the floor and we are where we are nine years deep through my lens.

if Miler woulda had Final Four success on the floor any of the last 5-6 years the issues off the floor would be mitigated a bit due to the equity he woulda built (to AZ Fans and such) on the floor in the form of tournament success.

the PG over the last three years (and to a larger extent the guards in general who Miller road) have put him/us here because the results on the floor when it counted were well below average, and its a damn shame.

off the floor Miller has an entirely different ball of wax to contend with that is under a much finer microscope due to the content/message above.

[TheCat]

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

I mean that doesn't show any growth though does it? So ultimately our great answer to our current failures on the court is to recruit less talented players to play Miller ball as opposed to recruiting the most talented players and adapting to their strengths/weaknesses? Good christ I wish I could get $3.5 million per to just run a written out system.

This isn't planned change either, it's forced upon us change. There's a huge difference between doing some self reflection and changing course willingly and merely waking up one and and saying well shit we're stuck doing it this way now so let's roll with it I guess. One you genuinely want to do and the other you're stuck doing. The psychology of that certainly matters.

Bear Down with Miller Ball and Ehhhhh players though!

You can get $3.5M. Just win your conference, the tourney and average 30 wins per year over the last 5 years and you will have NO PROBLEM getting that money. This place is incredible. Win your conference by two full games (extremely rare) and you get this. We had a disappointing tournament after a year of turmoil. Nut up and get back to work.

[ChooChooCat]

Whats wrong with a subpar recruiting class and a different approach? The Great recruits have n ot gotten us very far and everyone is shouting for "change"...well here it is motherfuckers...change...it might be better than you imagine.

I mean that doesn't show any growth though does it? So ultimately our great answer to our current failures on the court is to recruit less talented players to play Miller ball as opposed to recruiting the most talented players and adapting to their strengths/weaknesses? Good christ I wish I could get $3.5 million per to just run a written out system.

This isn't planned change either, it's forced upon us change. There's a huge difference between doing some self reflection and changing course willingly and merely waking up one and and saying well shit we're stuck doing it this way now so let's roll with it I guess. One you genuinely want to do and the other you're stuck doing. The psychology of that certainly matters.

Bear Down with Miller Ball and Ehhhhh players though!

You can get $3.5M. Just win your conference, the tourney and average 30 wins per year over the last 5 years and you will have NO PROBLEM getting that money. This place is incredible. Win your conference by two full games (extremely rare) and you get this. We had a disappointing tournament after a year of turmoil. Nut up and get back to work.

Where did Lute Olson finish in conference the year his team lost to Santa Clara? A game which gave him a huge moment of clarity, where he reflected and decided to change his approach completely on his own free will that eventually led to a national title? Remind me. Did we win the conference by 6 games that year or was it only 5?

[zonagrad]

Let's have some intellectual honesty here. Lute was able to change after '93 because Ed Stokes was a senior. So it certainly made the decision to go small very easy. Lute went with a three guard lineup. The same issues prevalent in '92 with Rooks & Stokes were still there in '93. And if Stokes had another year of eligibility in '94, does Lute go small?

The opportunity for a more athletic team is there for Miller with Ristic gone & a better point guard next season.