UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Beachcat97
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Beachcat97 »

zonagrad wrote:UCLA's location in LA is both a blessing and a curse. Yes, there's the Hollywood angle and fertile recruiting. But from a fan perspective, LA is a fickle, transplant town. The millions of people in LA don't have ties to SoCal. And certainly not UCLA. Not in the way the local fanbase in the state of Kentucky rallies around its programs. It's really why the SEC is so strong. There aren't a ton of professional teams interfering. The programs are tied so strongly to the states and the fanbase. Same is true for much of the Big 10, Big 12 and ACC.

For UCLA to fill Pauley, they need to be ranked in the top 10 and definite Final Four contender. It's not that way in so many other programs. And when the fan support is tepid for a team that may be fighting for a top 25 program, then the perception is the program isn't that great. And what coach wants to deal with that?
I think this is all spot on, zg.

Having lived in/near L.A. for most of my life (save for the 5 years I was in Tucson), I've seen interest in and enthusiasm for UCLA hoops (and really, UCLA athletics more generally) decline steadily. One of the crazier memories was seeing Pauley half- or less-than-half full during the Howland years. Try to imagine what the home court games look like at Rupp or Allen or the Dean Smith Center in a year immediately after a FF. I mean, these arenas are out of control regardless of how the team is doing, which is really the point. But even amid UCLA's most recent period of sustained greatness, it was largely ignored in Los Angeles.

Maybe this is why it makes sense to roll the dice with an Earl Watson or Cameron Dollar or some other guy with UCLA ties. Someone who understands and respects UCLA's past may not be as affected by local media relegating UCLA hoops to page four of the sports page or a tertiary slot on local TV sports news.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by midnightx »

The fact that the numbers UCLA allegedly offered Calipari have been disclosed doesn't help its cause because it will now ultimately overpay for its next coach. What does the school tell Barnes, Cal was worth $6 or $7 million, but you are only worth $2.5? If Barnes takes the job, he is likely going to earn significantly more than the school would have preferred paying him. It won't be Cal's deal, but Barnes will probably be overpaid as the school's 7th choice.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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midnightx wrote:The fact that the numbers UCLA allegedly offered Calipari have been disclosed doesn't help its cause because it will now ultimately overpay for its next coach. What does the school tell Barnes, Cal was worth $6 or $7 million, but you are only worth $2.5? If Barnes takes the job, he is likely going to earn significantly more than the school would have preferred paying him. It won't be Cal's deal, but Barnes will probably be overpaid as the school's 7th choice.
Such a good point, midnight.

Man, it's really hard to imagine this going much worse for UCLA. But it might get worse: I'm hearing UT is trying very hard to retain Barnes.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Hey Gumby!

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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Rick Barnes aka the second best basketball coach in the Pac-12 named Barnes.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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midnightx wrote:The fact that the numbers UCLA allegedly offered Calipari have been disclosed doesn't help its cause because it will now ultimately overpay for its next coach. What does the school tell Barnes, Cal was worth $6 or $7 million, but you are only worth $2.5? If Barnes takes the job, he is likely going to earn significantly more than the school would have preferred paying him. It won't be Cal's deal, but Barnes will probably be overpaid as the school's 7th choice.
I'd imagine Barnes would stand to make 4 million or so from UCLA. But that is the problem,what's the value of a coach and will they get offended at what was leaked to another coach. Thye can probably soothe over the less than Calipari was going to take by rationalizing the lack of a title.

We just need to back the truck to Self. I'll take a year of no tournament to get him
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Merkin wrote:Rick Barnes, the same Rick Barnes who has 2 peaked at 2 elite 8's and no FFs?
Barnes had a FF with Texas the year Syracuse won.

To Newportcat's point, are we sure Heeke will nail.it where Guerrero has struggled?
Do we even think Heeke will get the chance? My money is on a donor-led search committee with Heeke locked in his office with the shades drawn.
Fuck no heeke will either be fired or will literally be in that exact room you mentioned but I am pretty sure his office doesn’t have windows so Even better

Dr Robbins will lead it with ced Dempsey and Davis family and maybe Jeff Stevens’s

I bet they also bring in an alumni like Steve Kerr to help too vet guys
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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This is crazy. It's looking quite likely they're gonna miss on Barnes too.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Newportcat »

Beachcat97 wrote:
Dear baby Jesus....

I mean what are you even asking God? Hey god, so I can make millions in Tennessee or millions in LA, what do I do?

Pretty sure god has better things to deal with

Sorry religious rant over

But I think it’s really stupid to say you are praying over a job offer when you will make millions at both places.

Now the rant is over
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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I'm guessing 3.5 mil in Tennessee is like $75,000 in Los Angeles.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Beachcat97 wrote:

You were saying Chicat????

I won't be surprised if Barnes isn't the last coach to use UCLA like a Cheap Whore to extort a raise out of their employer.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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I don't think $5 million in LA is worth it if UT counters with anything close. Traffic, taxes, headaches of LA, and most of all the unrealistic expectations of UCLA. Why subject yourself to that? Knoxville is a fun college town with a enough sophistication without being a pain in the ass to live in.

Barnes probably has 3-4 years of equity at Tennessee after the last two years. He'll be lucky to get that in Westwood. Hell, after next season whoever coaches that dumpster fire will be lucky to get an NIT bid. Then the long climb begins.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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I'm beginning to understand why they ended up with Alford last time this job was open.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Dumpster fire of a search...wow.

What happened to Mick Cronin?
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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zonagrad wrote:I don't think $5 million in LA is worth it if UT counters with anything close. Traffic, taxes, headaches of LA, and most of all the unrealistic expectations of UCLA. Why subject yourself to that? Knoxville is a fun college town with a enough sophistication without being a pain in the ass to live in.

Barnes probably has 3-4 years of equity at Tennessee after the last two years. He'll be lucky to get that in Westwood. Hell, after next season whoever coaches that dumpster fire will be lucky to get an NIT bid. Then the long climb begins.
Unrealistic standards were on full display under the Alford tenure. Lucky to get 4 years at UCLA? Last coach to get less than 4 years was Larry Farmer, which based on his post UCLA career was a bad coach from the start.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Beachcat97 wrote:I'm beginning to understand why they ended up with Alford last time this job was open.
They should've gone after Nate Oats of Buffalo at the outset, or someone similar. Texas Tech did their homework (and maybe UNLV did too) on Brad Beard at Arkansas Little Rock. That's the kind of coach you target. Or even Oregon with Dana Altman.

UCLA should've known since the Alford hire what their ceiling was going to be.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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MrBug708 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't think $5 million in LA is worth it if UT counters with anything close. Traffic, taxes, headaches of LA, and most of all the unrealistic expectations of UCLA. Why subject yourself to that? Knoxville is a fun college town with a enough sophistication without being a pain in the ass to live in.

Barnes probably has 3-4 years of equity at Tennessee after the last two years. He'll be lucky to get that in Westwood. Hell, after next season whoever coaches that dumpster fire will be lucky to get an NIT bid. Then the long climb begins.
Unrealistic standards were on full display under the Alford tenure. Lucky to get 4 years at UCLA? Last coach to get less than 4 years was Larry Farmer, which based on his post UCLA career was a bad coach from the start.
Based on the current UCLA roster -- what are your expectations for the next few years regardless of coach? Next year is a lost cause, and maybe the year after that as well.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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zonagrad wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't think $5 million in LA is worth it if UT counters with anything close. Traffic, taxes, headaches of LA, and most of all the unrealistic expectations of UCLA. Why subject yourself to that? Knoxville is a fun college town with a enough sophistication without being a pain in the ass to live in.

Barnes probably has 3-4 years of equity at Tennessee after the last two years. He'll be lucky to get that in Westwood. Hell, after next season whoever coaches that dumpster fire will be lucky to get an NIT bid. Then the long climb begins.
Unrealistic standards were on full display under the Alford tenure. Lucky to get 4 years at UCLA? Last coach to get less than 4 years was Larry Farmer, which based on his post UCLA career was a bad coach from the start.
Based on the current UCLA roster -- what are your expectations for the next few years regardless of coach? Next year is a lost cause, and maybe the year after that as well.
He already said they're a 23 or 24 win team next season. Not seeing it.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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zonagrad wrote:I don't think $5 million in LA is worth it if UT counters with anything close. Traffic, taxes, headaches of LA, and most of all the unrealistic expectations of UCLA. Why subject yourself to that? Knoxville is a fun college town with a enough sophistication without being a pain in the ass to live in.

Barnes probably has 3-4 years of equity at Tennessee after the last two years. He'll be lucky to get that in Westwood. Hell, after next season whoever coaches that dumpster fire will be lucky to get an NIT bid. Then the long climb begins.
Living on the west side of LA is awesome if you make fuck you money. $5M a year with our taxes is not fuck you money in LA. It’s an awful place to live and fan base really sucks. Wooden in some ways was too successful as Saban is now doing with Alabama.

$5M a year in Knoxville, you basically are the richest person in town

Now you will always be second fiddle to football but you also get the benefit of being in the SEC so facilities are probably awesome and you never want for anything

Barnes just does not seem like the right fit for UCLA

Hire Russ turner from uci
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Newportcat wrote:
Hire Russ turner from uci
Makes too much sense, right? He just had one of the better seasons in their history.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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zonagrad wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:I'm beginning to understand why they ended up with Alford last time this job was open.
They should've gone after Nate Oats of Buffalo at the outset, or someone similar. Texas Tech did their homework (and maybe UNLV did too) on Brad Beard at Arkansas Little Rock. That's the kind of coach you target. Or even Oregon with Dana Altman.

UCLA should've known since the Alford hire what their ceiling was going to be.
Yep totally agree and why I have been harping on Russ turner from uci

Coached in the NBA
Coached at Stanford under Monty so knows PAC 12
Knows SoCal recruiting very well
Had more success at UCI then any coach before him
Experienced but not old
Great coach
Coming off historic season at UCI

Check check check check
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Not much to add except to circle back to Miller and the fans’ treatment of him when he had his flirtations with another job. If Cal can side flirt on Kentucky (denials be damned) . . . I don’t know. I just never understood the outrage even when it was happening real time.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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zonagrad wrote:
Based on the current UCLA roster -- what are your expectations for the next few years regardless of coach? Next year is a lost cause, and maybe the year after that as well.
I see coaches like Dixon and Barnes getting 23 wins and a top 3 finish in the PAC 12. Hire Watson and I see less potential. I also don't know if they do a Chip Kelly level clear out of talent either. The team has a lot of talent, it just was poorly coached and had guys hunting shots for themselves. They've both declared since then.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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dmjcat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:

You were saying Chicat????

I won't be surprised if Barnes isn't the last coach to use UCLA like a Cheap Whore to extort a raise out of their employer.
I still don’t think he’s trying to soak the Vols. UCLA’s interest seems genuine as opposed to Barnes’s agent floating his name to get a raise.

But I’ve been wrong before.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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ByJoveByJingle wrote:Not much to add except to circle back to Miller and the fans’ treatment of him when he had his flirtations with another job. If Cal can side flirt on Kentucky (denials be damned) . . . I don’t know. I just never understood the outrage even when it was happening real time.
Miller leaving was different. It didn’t have to do with money. For a brief time he thought Maryland was a better job then Arizona which is lunancy

Cal just played UCLA to get more money from Kentucky. He was never leaving
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Newportcat »

Chicat wrote:
dmjcat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:

You were saying Chicat????

I won't be surprised if Barnes isn't the last coach to use UCLA like a Cheap Whore to extort a raise out of their employer.
I still don’t think he’s trying to soak the Vols. UCLA’s interest seems genuine as opposed to Barnes’s agent floating his name to get a raise.

But I’ve been wrong before.
I wonder what baby Jesus is going to tell him to do
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Beachcat97 wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Hire Russ turner from uci
Makes too much sense, right? He just had one of the better seasons in their history.
I even think Dan G hired him at UCI

It’s a fucking joke

If Miller left soon turner would not be a bad option for us if he is still around at uci

Candidly I know people who know him well and would do my best to connect him with my contacts at Arizona

He is a great coach. UCI is not an easy job and he has been doing very well there.
Last edited by Newportcat on Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Chicat wrote:
dmjcat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:

You were saying Chicat????

I won't be surprised if Barnes isn't the last coach to use UCLA like a Cheap Whore to extort a raise out of their employer.
I still don’t think he’s trying to soak the Vols. UCLA’s interest seems genuine as opposed to Barnes’s agent floating his name to get a raise.

But I’ve been wrong before.
I think he legitimately is as well. I also think there is still the Dixon stuff in the background. Every other coach has had info leaked, Barnes contract stuff being the latest. Dixon has yet to come out and leverage the UCLA job for anything. Commented how he loves TCU and wants to be herenand all that usual Jazz
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Newportcat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Hire Russ turner from uci
Makes too much sense, right? He just had one of the better seasons in their history.
I even think Dan G hired him at UCI

It’s a fucking joke

If Miller left soon turner would not be a bad option for us if he is still around at uci

Candidly I know people who know him well and would do my best to connect him with my contacts at Arizona

He is a great coach. UCI is not an easy job and he has been doing very well there
You sound like a great UC administrator.

DG has been at UCLA twice as long as Turner has been at UCI. DG debated on hiring Pat Douglass had Howland turned him down despite the paycut.

I doubt the homophobe comment would fly
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by ByJoveByJingle »

Newportcat wrote:
ByJoveByJingle wrote:Not much to add except to circle back to Miller and the fans’ treatment of him when he had his flirtations with another job. If Cal can side flirt on Kentucky (denials be damned) . . . I don’t know. I just never understood the outrage even when it was happening real time.
Miller leaving was different. It didn’t have to do with money. For a brief time he thought Maryland was a better job then Arizona which is lunancy

Cal just played UCLA to get more money from Kentucky. He was never leaving
Any of the names mentioned aren’t leaving because of money, either. They are leaving either because they also believe that UCLA is a better program (which in many cases it isn’t, depending upon how you define it) or because it is a better fit for their life. If Miller felt more comfortable back on the East Coast after a few years in Tucson, I don’t know how anybody could blame him. Lute flirted, too. Most of us thought he was gone.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Chicat wrote:
dmjcat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:

You were saying Chicat????

I won't be surprised if Barnes isn't the last coach to use UCLA like a Cheap Whore to extort a raise out of their employer.
I still don’t think he’s trying to soak the Vols. UCLA’s interest seems genuine as opposed to Barnes’s agent floating his name to get a raise.

But I’ve been wrong before.
I don't doubt UCLA has legitimate interest...........I just question Barnes actual interest.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm............. i think that its about time Bruce Pearl got a raise........wonder if his agent is speaking with UCLA??
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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I just want to say I find this whole thing highly entertaining.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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Pearl would fit nicely at UCLA.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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zonagrad wrote:Pearl would fit nicely at UCLA.
I doubt Auburn lets him get away.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by midnightx »

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Not much to add except to circle back to Miller and the fans’ treatment of him when he had his flirtations with another job. If Cal can side flirt on Kentucky (denials be damned) . . . I don’t know. I just never understood the outrage even when it was happening real time.
Part of it was AZ fans being baffled that Miller thought Maryland was a more attractive job, but I think the bigger issue was after having weathered the initial post-Lute storm (leave of absence, retirement, two years of busted recruiting, instability), fans were very aggravated that Miller was potentially leaving so soon after not completely rebuilding the program, when it appeared he was on the verge of bringing AZ back to elite status (which he did for several years).
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by midnightx »

zonagrad wrote:Pearl would fit nicely at UCLA.
He will be UCLA's next call when Barnes declines the job (after getting a $2million dollar per year raise at Tennessee). ;)
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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If there is one good thing that might come out of the ongoing UCLA coaching search debacle its that the UCLA fanbase may finally flush their delusional belief that they are a College Basketball Blue-Blood down the drain for good.

I have been to every PAC12 tournament since it moved to Vegas and I can't tell you how many graying middle aged UCLA fans I have run into that tell me "We don't care about the PAC12 tournament.....We're UCLA. We play for National Titles".

Maybe, just maybe, the UCLA fanbase is starting to stare reality in the face for the first time in over 4 decades.

Then again, maybe not.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by MrBug708 »

Lol
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Merkin »

:D
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by MrBug708 »

Merkin wrote::D
Coach Pruitt haha
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

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dmjcat wrote:If there is one good thing that might come out of the ongoing UCLA coaching search debacle its that the UCLA fanbase may finally flush their delusional belief that they are a College Basketball Blue-Blood down the drain for good.

I have been to every PAC12 tournament since it moved to Vegas and I can't tell you how many graying middle aged UCLA fans I have run into that tell me "We don't care about the PAC12 tournament.....We're UCLA. We play for National Titles".

Maybe, just maybe, the UCLA fanbase is starting to stare reality in the face for the first time in over 4 decades.

Then again, maybe not.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Gonna go with "not."

The decline of UCLA hoops is really just part of a larger trend in L.A.: less and less interest in NCAA athletics, more and more interest in the pros. If anything, it's the smaller L.A. schools (CSUs, smaller UCs, LMU, Pepperdine) that occasionally generate local interest, and not always for basketball and football.

I mean, if USC football is thriving, then there's interest. Of course. But the Trojans are going through an extended period of lesser success. The buzz that once surrounded that program has faded quite a bit, all the more since the Rams and Chargers got to town.

If UCLA cannot draw a Calipari or Pitino or Stevens -- huge names that would fit well with L.A.'s culture of spectacle and glamour -- then I'm not really sure they can establish a strong foothold nationally.

This is why it probably makes the most sense to hire a smaller, less expensive name. There are a lot of coaches deserving of a chance. If that UCI coach succeeds at UCLA, it's a great story. Rick Barnes finishing 3rd in a watered down Pac...that's not a great story.
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by azgreg »

Merkin wrote::D
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by SCCats »

Awesome
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by MrBug708 »

Even UT fans are starting to make fake Bolch accounts
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Merkin »

:lol:

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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Newportcat »

MrBug708 wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Hire Russ turner from uci
Makes too much sense, right? He just had one of the better seasons in their history.
I even think Dan G hired him at UCI

It’s a fucking joke

If Miller left soon turner would not be a bad option for us if he is still around at uci

Candidly I know people who know him well and would do my best to connect him with my contacts at Arizona

He is a great coach. UCI is not an easy job and he has been doing very well there
You sound like a great UC administrator.

DG has been at UCLA twice as long as Turner has been at UCI. DG debated on hiring Pat Douglass had Howland turned him down despite the paycut.

I doubt the homophobe comment would fly
Jesus, UCLA has kept Dan G that long...that is a freaking joke

You don't like Turner?
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MrBug708
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Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by MrBug708 »

He has some potential but other programs haven't bothered sniffing around him either. The whole Louis King thing also left people with a source taste on their mouth which makes him look petty at best,homophobic at worse. He probably needs a WAC level conference team fpr his next logical career progression
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Longhorned
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Location: In a guayabera at The Sands Club, Arizona Stadium

Re: UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Post by Longhorned »

I think they should ask Calipari again.
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