CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
Same here. That's the nice thing about where I live in coastal Cali. I can do things all year round outside. I truly barbecue 52 weeks out of the year and even make breakfast outside during weekends. I live close to the ocean, lakes, mountains, and so on.
When I grew up in Michigan, I watched a tremendous amount of college basketball and football games, since it was so frickin' cold outside during the fall and winter sport seasons. Come to think of it, summer too since it was so humid outside.
Those things will never change.
Growing up in northern Ohio, one of the very best things about basketball was driving through the snow to play in an indoor gym...
... but I loved snow days as a kid, because I could make a lot of quick cash shoveling sidewalks and driveways!!
“If you have the choice between humble and cocky, go with cocky. There's always time to be humble later, once you've been proven horrendously, irrevocably wrong.”
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
Same here. That's the nice thing about where I live in coastal Cali. I can do things all year round outside. I truly barbecue 52 weeks out of the year and even make breakfast outside during weekends. I live close to the ocean, lakes, mountains, and so on.
When I grew up in Michigan, I watched a tremendous amount of college basketball and football games, since it was so frickin' cold outside during the fall and winter sport seasons. Come to think of it, summer too since it was so humid outside.
Those things will never change.
Growing up in northern Ohio, one of the very best things about basketball was driving through the snow to play in an indoor gym...
... but I loved snow days as a kid, because I could make a lot of quick cash shoveling sidewalks and driveways!!
Toledo? My mother grew up in Bellefontaine, and I still have lots of relatives in the Columbus area. Many of them tOSU grads.
I grew up in south central Michigan (Battle Creek), and didn't know of any indoor courts. Used to shoot a lot outdoors, but that ball used to get rock hard. Rebounding the ball was like catching a rock. Same with playing football.
My dad grew up in Indiana and was quite the good basketball player in the early 1950's. Not sure where he played winter ball, maybe the Urbana High School.
Loved snow days too, but now I am perfectly happy to never be in the snow again for the rest of my life.
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
That is great and fine but that is also why the PAC12 gets less money than the SEC and Big Ten
I can't believe there is someone who uses his precious time to defend Larry fucking Scott, the absolute worst commissioner in the NCAA. During his tenure, the Pac-10/12 has lost prestige (not to mention money) in literally every sport it once dominated, even softball. The two best college basketball teams in the western United States are NOT in the Pac-12 (and you could even make the argument that BYU makes three). That no one has access to the channel that broadcasts most of our conference's games is definitely harming the conference in the long-term. LA-area football recruits aren't even going to USC anymore, let alone UCLA. ASU, Arizona, UCLA, OSU, WSU, and Colorado haven't had a relevant football team in decades. The Pac-12 has had ONE participant in a Final Four since 2008 (!!!!) and is very unlikely to have one this year. I literally can't think of a single aspect of this conference that has improved in the eleven years it has been led by Scott.
History says, Don't hope
On this side of the grave,
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed-for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
That is great and fine but that is also why the PAC12 gets less money than the SEC and Big Ten
I can't believe there is someone who uses his precious time to defend Larry fucking Scott, the absolute worst commissioner in the NCAA. During his tenure, the Pac-10/12 has lost prestige (not to mention money) in literally every sport it once dominated, even softball. The two best college basketball teams in the western United States are NOT in the Pac-12 (and you could even make the argument that BYU makes three). That no one has access to the channel that broadcasts most of our conference's games is definitely harming the conference in the long-term. LA-area football recruits aren't even going to USC anymore, let alone UCLA. ASU, Arizona, UCLA, OSU, WSU, and Colorado haven't had a relevant football team in decades. The Pac-12 has had ONE participant in a Final Four since 2008 (!!!!) and is very unlikely to have one this year. I literally can't think of a single aspect of this conference that has improved in the eleven years it has been led by Scott.
Facts are facts. Larry Scott is not the reason why people dont care as much about PAC12 sports compared to SEC and Big Ten. I have never defended Larry Scott
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
That is great and fine but that is also why the PAC12 gets less money than the SEC and Big Ten
I can't believe there is someone who uses his precious time to defend Larry fucking Scott, the absolute worst commissioner in the NCAA. During his tenure, the Pac-10/12 has lost prestige (not to mention money) in literally every sport it once dominated, even softball. The two best college basketball teams in the western United States are NOT in the Pac-12 (and you could even make the argument that BYU makes three). That no one has access to the channel that broadcasts most of our conference's games is definitely harming the conference in the long-term. LA-area football recruits aren't even going to USC anymore, let alone UCLA. ASU, Arizona, UCLA, OSU, WSU, and Colorado haven't had a relevant football team in decades. The Pac-12 has had ONE participant in a Final Four since 2008 (!!!!) and is very unlikely to have one this year. I literally can't think of a single aspect of this conference that has improved in the eleven years it has been led by Scott.
Larry Scott is arguably inept, however, your point is well taken. If USC again returns to a top-five football power, which it can with the right hire, and if AZ and UCLA again are top ten basketball programs (both are national brands), the Pac 12 will become more prominent. The football league has no star power (mediocre Oregon and Washington teams do not resonate nationally), and frankly, the general public is not that interested in Oregon basketball.
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
That is great and fine but that is also why the PAC12 gets less money than the SEC and Big Ten
I can't believe there is someone who uses his precious time to defend Larry fucking Scott, the absolute worst commissioner in the NCAA. During his tenure, the Pac-10/12 has lost prestige (not to mention money) in literally every sport it once dominated, even softball. The two best college basketball teams in the western United States are NOT in the Pac-12 (and you could even make the argument that BYU makes three). That no one has access to the channel that broadcasts most of our conference's games is definitely harming the conference in the long-term. LA-area football recruits aren't even going to USC anymore, let alone UCLA. ASU, Arizona, UCLA, OSU, WSU, and Colorado haven't had a relevant football team in decades. The Pac-12 has had ONE participant in a Final Four since 2008 (!!!!) and is very unlikely to have one this year. I literally can't think of a single aspect of this conference that has improved in the eleven years it has been led by Scott.
Larry Scott is arguably inept, however, your point is well taken. If USC again returns to a top-five football power, which it can with the right hire, and if AZ and UCLA again are top ten basketball programs (both are national brands), the Pac 12 will become more prominent. The football league has no star power (mediocre Oregon and Washington teams do not resonate nationally), and frankly, the general public is not that interested in Oregon basketball.
Larry Scott is awful at his job. He is the worst college commish today and probably ever. But not every issue the PAC-12 has is his fault. Only blame things on Scott that Scott has control or influence over. PAC-12 fans and alumni not be as passionate about their teams as those in the Big Ten and SEC is not one of them.
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
That is great and fine but that is also why the PAC12 gets less money than the SEC and Big Ten
I can't believe there is someone who uses his precious time to defend Larry fucking Scott, the absolute worst commissioner in the NCAA. During his tenure, the Pac-10/12 has lost prestige (not to mention money) in literally every sport it once dominated, even softball. The two best college basketball teams in the western United States are NOT in the Pac-12 (and you could even make the argument that BYU makes three). That no one has access to the channel that broadcasts most of our conference's games is definitely harming the conference in the long-term. LA-area football recruits aren't even going to USC anymore, let alone UCLA. ASU, Arizona, UCLA, OSU, WSU, and Colorado haven't had a relevant football team in decades. The Pac-12 has had ONE participant in a Final Four since 2008 (!!!!) and is very unlikely to have one this year. I literally can't think of a single aspect of this conference that has improved in the eleven years it has been led by Scott.
Larry Scott is arguably inept, however, your point is well taken. If USC again returns to a top-five football power, which it can with the right hire, and if AZ and UCLA again are top ten basketball programs (both are national brands), the Pac 12 will become more prominent. The football league has no star power (mediocre Oregon and Washington teams do not resonate nationally), and frankly, the general public is not that interested in Oregon basketball.
What I am saying is that I think our teams' poor performances are as much a function of the decline of the Pac-12 as they are a cause.
History says, Don't hope
On this side of the grave,
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed-for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
That is great and fine but that is also why the PAC12 gets less money than the SEC and Big Ten
I can't believe there is someone who uses his precious time to defend Larry fucking Scott, the absolute worst commissioner in the NCAA. During his tenure, the Pac-10/12 has lost prestige (not to mention money) in literally every sport it once dominated, even softball. The two best college basketball teams in the western United States are NOT in the Pac-12 (and you could even make the argument that BYU makes three). That no one has access to the channel that broadcasts most of our conference's games is definitely harming the conference in the long-term. LA-area football recruits aren't even going to USC anymore, let alone UCLA. ASU, Arizona, UCLA, OSU, WSU, and Colorado haven't had a relevant football team in decades. The Pac-12 has had ONE participant in a Final Four since 2008 (!!!!) and is very unlikely to have one this year. I literally can't think of a single aspect of this conference that has improved in the eleven years it has been led by Scott.
Larry Scott is arguably inept, however, your point is well taken. If USC again returns to a top-five football power, which it can with the right hire, and if AZ and UCLA again are top ten basketball programs (both are national brands), the Pac 12 will become more prominent. The football league has no star power (mediocre Oregon and Washington teams do not resonate nationally), and frankly, the general public is not that interested in Oregon basketball.
What I am saying is that I think our teams' poor performances are as much a function of the decline of the Pac-12 as they are a cause.
And my remarks clearly were in agreement. If USC football dominates and contends for national titles every year, if Arizona and UCLA (the two biggest national basketball brands in the conference) are again top-ten programs competing for basketball championships and making final fours, the perception and credibility of the conference will improve nationally.
midnightx wrote:And my remarks clearly were in agreement. If USC football dominates and contends for national titles every year, if Arizona and UCLA (the two biggest national basketball brands in the conference) are again top-ten programs competing for basketball championships and making final fours, the perception and credibility of the conference will improve nationally.
And I'm saying that it is much more difficult for any of those schools to accomplish those feats because of how much they are handcuffed, financially and otherwise, by their shitty conference, which only tightens the fiscal constraints even further, making the job even more difficult. The conference is in a death spiral entirely of its own making.
History says, Don't hope
On this side of the grave,
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed-for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
Leave it to Machina to approvingly quote Doug freaking Gottlieb here.
History says, Don't hope
On this side of the grave,
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed-for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
midnightx wrote:
What I am saying is that I think our teams' poor performances are as much a function of the decline of the Pac-12 as they are a cause.
And my remarks clearly were in agreement. If USC football dominates and contends for national titles every year, if Arizona and UCLA (the two biggest national basketball brands in the conference) are again top-ten programs competing for basketball championships and making final fours, the perception and credibility of the conference will improve nationally.
And this is where Larry Scott comes in, these things are less likely to happen when your schools are bringing in $30M less per year in media deals. You think USC is holding onto Clay Helton if they have an extra $30M? Arizona hands tied on Sumlin? Are we loosing Mike Leach? Mel Tucker? Are our assistant coaches getting a 200%(!!!) raise for the same position at another school? Coaches make a drastic difference in how teams perform and when we cant afford to pay coaches our teams get worse, our fan support declines and our future media deals are less valuable. Honestly Larry has put our conference in a deep hole that it will be near impossible to get out of. You can say the fan support was the reason all you want but in the time Larry Scott has taken over our average football attendence per game for the conference as a whole has gone down 11K(!!!!), so you can argue the chicken or the egg all you want but moral of the story is the commish of this conference has not done a single thing to help improve things for this conference.
Let me get this straight: the increase in television options for basketball and football have increased significantly over the last 20 years, the Pac 12's output in these two sports has decreased significantly and it's because they lack the fan support, # of alumni and other factors that can't be measured quantitatively? Luckily for us, Dan Wolken and Doug Gottlieb have an extensive economics and finance background to help explain to us in a more efficient manner.
I mean, I can fully execute a mortgage on my phone, but if I want to watch the Wildcats, tough shit!
Average viewers per game on ABC, CBS, Fox, FS1, ESPN Networks, SEC Network and Big Ten Network for football this year of conference games
SEC 4.186 Million
Big Ten 2.740 Million
Big 12 1.888 Million
PAC-12 1.470 Million (would be far less if PAC-12 networks games included, but they are not)
ACC 1.349 Million
If you only took games for the PAC-12 that started 6 or earlier local time, the average viewers would be less than 2 Million
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
The Big 12 has a game almost every week at noon eastern on FS1 that is included in that number that always drew a very low number, without that game, the average viewers would be 2.278 Million
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
Did Machina get banned over at WA? There has to be a reason why he’s vomiting all over this board.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
PHXCATS wrote:Average viewers per game on ABC, CBS, Fox, FS1, ESPN Networks, SEC Network and Big Ten Network for football this year of conference games
SEC 4.186 Million
Big Ten 2.740 Million
Big 12 1.888 Million
PAC-12 1.470 Million (would be far less if PAC-12 networks games included, but they are not)
ACC 1.349 Million
If you only took games for the PAC-12 that started 6 or earlier local time, the average viewers would be less than 2 Million
How about a comparison by time slot and station? I would love to see that.
PHXCATS wrote:Average viewers per game on ABC, CBS, Fox, FS1, ESPN Networks, SEC Network and Big Ten Network for football this year of conference games
SEC 4.186 Million
Big Ten 2.740 Million
Big 12 1.888 Million
PAC-12 1.470 Million (would be far less if PAC-12 networks games included, but they are not)
ACC 1.349 Million
If you only took games for the PAC-12 that started 6 or earlier local time, the average viewers would be less than 2 Million
How about a comparison by time slot and station? I would love to see that.
Here are the ratings by Network Window that the PAC-12 is a part of compared with other Power 5 conferences. These are averages.
The 330-4 Eastern Fox
Big Ten 3.015 Million
Big 12 2.405 Million
PAC-12 1.995 Million
The 330-4 Eastern ABC
Big Ten 4.475 Million
Big 12 3.160 Million
ACC 2.715 Million
PAC-12 2.397 Million
The 7-8 Eastern ABC
Big Ten 5.795 Million
Big 12 5.215 Million
PAC-12 3.260 Million
ACC 3.165 Million
The 7-8 Eastern ESPN
SEC 3.153 Million
PAC-12 1.370 Million
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
97cats wrote:everything that’s happening now is now.
well what happened to then?
we missed it.
when?
just now
Please tell me this is a Spaceballs reference.
I’m surrounded by Assholes...
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
97cats wrote:everything that’s happening now is now.
well what happened to then?
we missed it.
when?
just now
Meanwhile, there's nowhere to go that isn't here.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
CalStateTempe wrote:I’m so glad I live on the west coast and have lots of shit to with my time rather than sit on my ass and watch games.
Same here. That's the nice thing about where I live in coastal Cali. I can do things all year round outside. I truly barbecue 52 weeks out of the year and even make breakfast outside during weekends. I live close to the ocean, lakes, mountains, and so on.
When I grew up in Michigan, I watched a tremendous amount of college basketball and football games, since it was so frickin' cold outside during the fall and winter sport seasons. Come to think of it, summer too since it was so humid outside.
Those things will never change.
Growing up in northern Ohio, one of the very best things about basketball was driving through the snow to play in an indoor gym...
... but I loved snow days as a kid, because I could make a lot of quick cash shoveling sidewalks and driveways!!
Toledo? My mother grew up in Bellefontaine, and I still have lots of relatives in the Columbus area. Many of them tOSU grads.
I grew up in south central Michigan (Battle Creek), and didn't know of any indoor courts. Used to shoot a lot outdoors, but that ball used to get rock hard. Rebounding the ball was like catching a rock. Same with playing football.
My dad grew up in Indiana and was quite the good basketball player in the early 1950's. Not sure where he played winter ball, maybe the Urbana High School.
Loved snow days too, but now I am perfectly happy to never be in the snow again for the rest of my life.
Learned to play on outdoor courts - even shoveling off the court so we could play...
... Had to adjust perimeter shots for the wind!!
“If you have the choice between humble and cocky, go with cocky. There's always time to be humble later, once you've been proven horrendously, irrevocably wrong.”
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
PHXCATS wrote:Who would be on your list to replace Millet next year Choo?
The main thing i see that is a hindrance for Miller getting this team back is roster management. He’s just not good at it. It’s like we only get the kids who are just good enough to be 1AD but not good enough to be transcendent and the few times we had the transcendent talent (ayton) the makeup around him was borderline trash (PJC is 100% on Miller for sticking w him when it was clear we weren’t going to FF w him as our starting pg). Honestly the year we had a (sort of) transcendent talent in Gordon w the complimentary pieces we were tight late game and that’s on Miller to some extent. Blame the Bash injury, blame the push off call, but we ran almost no double teams at Frank and he was single handedly destroying Kaleb. NJ was our leader that year and he played tight all of crunch time. We went to OT and scored less than 60 points. We were better than Wisky that year even without Bash but lost. The next year we weren’t beating Wisky and they were better as we lost NJ and AG and they returned everyone. But after the TJ years we haven’t had good roster management at all. There’s just a lot of flaws i see w Miller so if i were in charge, I’d be back channeling guys like Belein if he gets fired or Drew or Beard or Bennett to gauge interest. All of those guys run multiple Ds and free flowing Os. I would lean towards an excellent Xs and Os guy like Belien because as long as you’re in contention, you can recruit the best guys who fit ur system. I don’t think I’d make a move unless we had a specific target in mind that we knew would listen. It’s a tough decision though as Miller has shown he can coach, so I’m not totally ready to move on, but I’m def willing to explore options. I would def be watching closely this year and next and would be back channeling certain agents to gauge interest for targeted replacements if he doesn’t turn this ship around.
People forget that this years line-up is missing some key components that could not be replaced early enough...(and honestly were not replaced at all just moved the existing pieces around)
Anyone want to guess where we would be if Brandon Williams had remained completely healthy?
Experience, and a good chance he would have been clutch in tight games...roll through our close games and throw him into the lineup see how the dice treats the score then.
Thats ONE guy...whom Miller was planning on...
I once went on a bow hunt in the Dragoon mountains...when I got to the campsite late on a Friday (it was my only weekend left and I had worked hard all week) I sat up camp and started getting ready for the hunt in the morning...found out I did not have ANY camo gear or clothing at all...had left it in the dryer...but I did have a paint roller some paint dye and some painters whites...
You make due with what you have...sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
Its so sad seeing Williams celebrate on the bench. We can only imagine how much fun he would have playing alongside Green and Mannion. Best backcourt in the country and it wouldn't even be close
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