Sean Miller

[azcat49]

leaving out the question of who we might get and if he could potentially be a better coach, my question to those who want Miller gone is, why do you think now is the time given we don't know the impact of the NCAA deal. How many candidates would fall out of the search just from that?

[Spaceman Spiff]

leaving out the question of who we might get and if he could potentially be a better coach, my question to those who want Miller gone is, why do you think now is the time given we don't know the impact of the NCAA deal. How many candidates would fall out of the search just from that?

I'm obviously pro-Miller, but I tend to think the fire Miller crowd is just emotional about winning less over the last three years and really has no plan beyond firing Miller.

The NCAA thing will hurt us. Also, this offseason allows transfers to leave and immediately be eligible elsewhere, meaning our roster could get gutted much more than in other years.

This offseason is the worst timing for a coaching change based on thsoe two factors. I fail to see a really attractive candidate who you think would naturally want us.

I think people are mad at the expense of logic.

[azcat49]

Agreed Spiff. The logical course of action is to extend with language favorable to a future separation and allow Miller to move forward with recruiting. If he doesn’t produce post NCAA decision, we move on.

This isn’t rocket science

[gronk4heisman]

I see a lot of limitations with Miller's style and would not second guess getting rid of him one bit, but this is definitely not the time to make that move. Next year should be a prove it year. With the roster we are expected to return, if he is that top 5 or 7 coach some say he is he has the roster to make a solid run and be in the top 25 the majority of the season. But in order to not jeopardize the future of the program an extension is needed to allow him to show if he still is able to bring in talent to succeed long term.

[SCCats]

Yeah, I know. We're a horrible job. Who would want to come to Arizona, get paid $3.5M+ a year (or whatever it is) and have no expectations for a couple years while you get to build.

I don't know what to tell you guys. Clearly you seem interested in grinding out some more seasons of RPI 35 basketball. You might get your wish. You'd think three would be enough, but apparently not. So we'll grind out some more shit basketball; and don't delude yourself, that's what it is. Three years of the least compelling shit I've ever seen from Arizona hoops. And that's the problem now; it's not even that we're bad and we're angry, it's that we seem to be getting to a point where people don't even give a shit anymore. Conference games this year with 30 or 40 posts in the thread? That's magic, it's right where you wanna to be.

One day we're going to look back on this and think about how wrong we were. I hope that person is me. But I'd happy put my own money down on "it's not me."

I'm starting to think you don't want to try to name better coaches.

You're all in on Miller, so you can stop pretending you care who I'd mention as the next coach or that it'd change your mind. It wouldn't.

It's called a coaching search for a reason. You search. If you just knew, it'd be called a coaching know. You find someone. It's not rocket science.

Hopefully you find someone that leads you to more final fours than FBI indictments.

[SCCats]

So I'll put $100 up right now on the following:

Arizona finishing 1st or 2nd in the Pac next season.

I like that you're willing to put it down.

I accept. Let's do it for $1000.

Roster changes don't matter, just first or second next year.

[TheCat]

That invisible $1000 will never be collected. The main challenge will not be UCLA for Arizona it will be Oregon and the front court they have coming in. What the last three years has proved to me is that Sean is adaptable and no one works harder to improve his team through changes in recruiting. He has a team this year that has not played defense with the intensity that Sean wants but they are getting better.

[TheCat]

So I'll put $100 up right now on the following:

Arizona finishing 1st or 2nd in the Pac next season.

I like that you're willing to put it down.

I accept. Let's do it for $1000.

Roster changes don't matter, just first or second next year.

I guess you can't name any of those coaches eh?

[zonagrad]

So I'll put $100 up right now on the following:

Arizona finishing 1st or 2nd in the Pac next season.

I like that you're willing to put it down.

I accept. Let's do it for $1000.

Roster changes don't matter, just first or second next year.

I'll do $100. Injuries or something unexpected could always derail any team, any time -- and I'm not going to drop a thousand dollars if Tubelis' blows an ACL and Arizona somehow goes 14-4 and finishes in 3rd place but still reaches the Sweet 16. Nope. 1st or 2nd -- $100.

[SCCats]

That invisible $1000 will never be collected.

FedEx check to Chi, he cashes check now and holds funds till there's a winner.

That visible enough for you?

[SCCats]

So I'll put $100 up right now on the following:

Arizona finishing 1st or 2nd in the Pac next season.

I like that you're willing to put it down.

I accept. Let's do it for $1000.

Roster changes don't matter, just first or second next year.

I guess you can't name any of those coaches eh?

Ain't gonna change your mind either.

[zonagrad]

Yeah, I know. We're a horrible job. Who would want to come to Arizona, get paid $3.5M+ a year (or whatever it is) and have no expectations for a couple years while you get to build.

I don't know what to tell you guys. Clearly you seem interested in grinding out some more seasons of RPI 35 basketball. You might get your wish. You'd think three would be enough, but apparently not. So we'll grind out some more shit basketball; and don't delude yourself, that's what it is. Three years of the least compelling shit I've ever seen from Arizona hoops. And that's the problem now; it's not even that we're bad and we're angry, it's that we seem to be getting to a point where people don't even give a shit anymore. Conference games this year with 30 or 40 posts in the thread? That's magic, it's right where you wanna to be.

One day we're going to look back on this and think about how wrong we were. I hope that person is me. But I'd happy put my own money down on "it's not me."

I'm starting to think you don't want to try to name better coaches.

You're all in on Miller, so you can stop pretending you care who I'd mention as the next coach or that it'd change your mind. It wouldn't.

It's called a coaching search for a reason. You search. If you just knew, it'd be called a coaching know. You find someone. It's not rocket science.

Hopefully you find someone that leads you to more final fours than FBI indictments.

A coaching search? By the guys who hired Sumlin?


And now you magically have faith that Dr. Robbins will somehow attract a big name hire? But you can't name anyone who would:
a. Accept the job
b. Has a better track record than Miller

And that's because there isn't anyone out there who checks both of those boxes. And I think you know that.

[SCCats]

So I'll put $100 up right now on the following:

Arizona finishing 1st or 2nd in the Pac next season.

I like that you're willing to put it down.

I accept. Let's do it for $1000.

Roster changes don't matter, just first or second next year.

I'll do $100. Injuries or something unexpected could always derail any team, any time -- and I'm not going to drop a thousand dollars if Tubelis' blows an ACL and Arizona somehow goes 14-4 and finishes in 3rd place but still reaches the Sweet 16. Nope. 1st or 2nd -- $100.

Done. I'll give you ties, so as long as Arizona at least ties for second you win the bet.

[SCCats]

b. Has a better track record than Miller

And that's because there isn't anyone out there who checks both of those boxes. And I think you know that.

Get off the idea of track record. Just find the best guy. In 2008 I suggested Tony Bennett to replace Lute after Tony had coached all of 40 college basketball games in his entire career.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You're all in on Miller, so you can stop pretending you care who I'd mention as the next coach or that it'd change your mind. It wouldn't.

It's called a coaching search for a reason. You search. If you just knew, it'd be called a coaching know. You find someone. It's not rocket science.

Hopefully you find someone that leads you to more final fours than FBI indictments.

I think you're missing the point. I'm saying you're avoiding trying to list better coaches/candidates because if you try, you open yourself up to things like resume comparisons and logical argument.

If you never offer better names, you can just rip Miller and never have to engage in the challenge of finding someone better. That's the much harder part.

You probably won't change my mind with facts and logic, but you definitely won't by just ripping Miller.

I'll say it bluntly, I also think you won't try to put out better coaches/candidates because you know you can't. That's why you talk about a search for a mystery candidate. Because that mystery man is fundamentally unimpeachable.

[SCCats]

You're all in on Miller, so you can stop pretending you care who I'd mention as the next coach or that it'd change your mind. It wouldn't.

It's called a coaching search for a reason. You search. If you just knew, it'd be called a coaching know. You find someone. It's not rocket science.

Hopefully you find someone that leads you to more final fours than FBI indictments.

I think you're missing the point. I'm saying you're avoiding trying to list better coaches/candidates because if you try, you open yourself up to things like resume comparisons and logical argument.

If you never offer better names, you can just rip Miller and never have to engage in the challenge of finding someone better. That's the much harder part.

You probably won't change my mind with facts and logic, but you definitely won't by just ripping Miller.

I'll say it bluntly, I also think you won't try to put out better coaches/candidates because you know you can't. That's why you talk about a search for a mystery candidate. Because that mystery man is fundamentally unimpeachable.

I hope you never have to make any decision where there's any uncertainty.

[azgreg]

FedEx check to Chi, he cashes check now and holds funds till there's a winner.

You know you'll never see that money again. Chi will just take it to the nearest Chicago style pizza place the moment he gets it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You're all in on Miller, so you can stop pretending you care who I'd mention as the next coach or that it'd change your mind. It wouldn't.

It's called a coaching search for a reason. You search. If you just knew, it'd be called a coaching know. You find someone. It's not rocket science.

Hopefully you find someone that leads you to more final fours than FBI indictments.

I think you're missing the point. I'm saying you're avoiding trying to list better coaches/candidates because if you try, you open yourself up to things like resume comparisons and logical argument.

If you never offer better names, you can just rip Miller and never have to engage in the challenge of finding someone better. That's the much harder part.

You probably won't change my mind with facts and logic, but you definitely won't by just ripping Miller.

I'll say it bluntly, I also think you won't try to put out better coaches/candidates because you know you can't. That's why you talk about a search for a mystery candidate. Because that mystery man is fundamentally unimpeachable.

I hope you never have to make any decision where there's any uncertainty.

There's a difference between uncertainty and you putting forth zero people who are supposedly better.

No hiring process is certain. You're offering nothing so far beyond fire and pray.

If you gave me some names, I could at least respect that your process might be more than anyone but Miller.

[legallykenny]

Agreed Spiff. The logical course of action is to extend with language favorable to a future separation and allow Miller to move forward with recruiting. If he doesn’t produce post NCAA decision, we move on.

This isn’t rocket science

*With a significant pay cut to reflect performance.

[zonagrad]

b. Has a better track record than Miller

And that's because there isn't anyone out there who checks both of those boxes. And I think you know that.

Get off the idea of track record. Just find the best guy. In 2008 I suggested Tony Bennett to replace Lute after Tony had coached all of 40 college basketball games in his entire career.

Tony Bennett went 17-16 in '08-'09 at Wazzu. Then went 15-16 at UVA in '10. 16-15 in 2011. Sean Miller was in the Elite Eight at Arizona that same year. Bennett finally reached the NCAA tournament in 2012 with a 1st round exit at UVA. The following year he was back in the NIT. Miller was back in the Sweet 16 in 2013.

How long do you think Arizona fans would have waited for Tony Bennett to get his shit together and start winning if he had been hired in 2008?
I think you would be one of the same people complaining about performance the same way people are griping about the last three years. It's the same attitude that prevailed against Lute in '92 and '93 after first rounds upsets.

It's okay to be upset with the last three years. I'm a Miller supporter and I'm upset and frustrated. But I'm also practical and see the big picture. No coach would've been able to navigate that situation. Not John Wooden. Not K. Not Roy. Not Izzo. Nobody. And Miller somehow did surprisingly well.

If Miller doesn't do well next season, I think it's reasonable to consider parting ways. After next season.

[gronk4heisman]

It's okay to be upset with the last three years. I'm a Miller supporter and I'm upset and frustrated. But I'm also practical and see the big picture. No coach would've been able to navigate that situation. Not John Wooden. Not K. Not Roy. Not Izzo. Nobody. And Miller somehow did surprisingly well.

How about Bill Self, would he be able to navigate a situation like that? Miller has done decent but lets not act like he has done an amazing job the last three years.

[azcat49]

Let’s not kid ourselves, we all know Robbins would try to find that hidden gem to stroke his ego. An assistant at some strong program would be my guess.

[AzCatFan2]

The last three years haven't been Arizona good, but we were a lock for the tournament before COVID hit last year, and at worst, a bubble team this year, had we been eligible. Next year, assuming no departures, we can get back to being Arizona good with our returning players with experience, Bacho, and new recruits. Might be our best core or returning players since...anyone else want to finish this statement, because I'm at a loss.

As for tournament success, the tournament is fickle. Remember the jokes around Tucson in the early 90s? Why shouldn't people go to Lute's bar? Because you'll get thrown out after the first round! Of course, 1994 Final Four changed everything, and we ended up winning it all with a team that was very inexperienced. Maybe 1998 is the answer to my previous question?

Tournament success, or lack thereof, is not a good reason to fire a coach. Billy Donovan made a Sweet 16, then a Final Four at Florida, before not making out of the first weekend six straight seasons. But like any great coach with good teams year in and year out, caught lightning in a bottle and won back-to-back championships. And like Few, if you keep bringing good teams to the tournament, eventually, the ball will bounce your way and you'll make it to a Final Four. Miller, before the FBI came calling, was certainly on this path.

This leaves two questions. Can Miller get back on this path with no further FBI interference? Or will the FBI/IARP be too great an obstacle for Miller to overcome? To answer the first one, I'm confident in Miller's ability, should the worst of the investigation be truly behind us. To answer the second, I'll have to say incomplete, until we truly know what the IARP decides.

[gronk4heisman]

Let’s not kid ourselves, we all know Robbins would try to find that hidden gem to stroke his ego. An assistant at some strong program would be my guess.

His hires so far, and I do mean his hires since Heeke is just a face, have been a retread with no interest in doing anything other than cashing checks and a job jumping career assistant with no history of success at any stop. I strongly fear what he would do with a basketball opening.

[zonagrad]

It's okay to be upset with the last three years. I'm a Miller supporter and I'm upset and frustrated. But I'm also practical and see the big picture. No coach would've been able to navigate that situation. Not John Wooden. Not K. Not Roy. Not Izzo. Nobody. And Miller somehow did surprisingly well.

How about Bill Self, would he be able to navigate a situation like that? Miller has done decent but lets not act like he has done an amazing job the last three years.

Would you prefer to trade places with Kansas right now? Bill Self has the entire media establishment carrying water for him -- or rather, looking the other way. ESPN, Vitale, Bilas -- and certainly CBS. KU's athletic department is on the same page as Self and told the NCAA to pound sand. Our athletic department pissed its pants when the ESPN story broke. It took some local writers to out our AD into voicing support for Miller. Yeah, Self has people in his court at KU likely because they're all in the same boat -- sink or swim. Miller hasn't enjoyed that luxury.

But the bill is coming due at KU. They just shitcanned their AD, albeit for the Les Miles issue. But their athletic program is primed to implode and Self's situation is a helluva lot more grim than Miller's. And Self hasn't been taking arrows from every media organization like Miller.
Miller has been forced by powers beyond his control to swim against the current. The media has gone out of its way to avoid putting Self under serious scrutiny. But eventually they'll have to acknowledge the obvious because the evidence is far more damning for Self and KU than the lame NOA the NCAA levied against Miller. Ask me about Bill Self in another year or two and the story should be far different.

[zonagrad]

Might be our best core or returning players since...anyone else want to finish this statement, because I'm at a loss.

Under Miller? Maybe 2015.
Under Lute? Maybe 2005

[Frybry02]

Might be our best core or returning players since...anyone else want to finish this statement, because I'm at a loss.

Under Miller? Maybe 2015.
Under Lute? Maybe 2005

I would argue lutes 2002-2003 returning roster might be the strongest ever. Though I may be biased because that was freshman year in Tucson.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Agreed Spiff. The logical course of action is to extend with language favorable to a future separation and allow Miller to move forward with recruiting. If he doesn’t produce post NCAA decision, we move on.

This isn’t rocket science

*With a significant pay cut to reflect performance.

Given that he's the 34th highest paid coach in the nation, he might actually be outperforming his pay. We're not exactly breaking the bank on Miller.

[Beachcat97]

And yet, almost another week in the books, and no real news. I imagine things are happening, just very privately.

[Chicat]

FedEx check to Chi, he cashes check now and holds funds till there's a winner.

You know you'll never see that money again. Chi will just take it to the nearest Chicago style pizza place the moment he gets it.

*Dispensary

[Spaceman Spiff]

Might be our best core or returning players since...anyone else want to finish this statement, because I'm at a loss.

Under Miller? Maybe 2015.
Under Lute? Maybe 2005

Under Miller, 13-14 or 14-15 would be the best core(s). Counting returners only:

13-14, Zeus, Ashley, Nick Johnson, TJ, York.

14-15, Zeus, Ashley, Rondae, TJ, York.

It's tough because I would slot Nick over Rondae, but the other core guys were a year more experienced. I feel like this year's returners could be (fingers crossed the right guys return) better offensively than either of those groups, but they aren't there on D.

It's harder to compare with Lute's teams because I feel like there's no way Lute's rosters would be the same in the OAD era.

[azgreg]

[Spaceman Spiff]

Though Arizona president Dr. Robert Robbins stated publicly in recent days that he wants Miller to return as coach next season, he communicated in a brief meeting last week that he couldn’t get a contract extension approved by the school’s Board of Regents and left Miller with the impression that Robbins would prefer a parting of ways, according to one of the people, who is familiar with Miller’s thinking.

So with Adia Barnes getting extended through 2025-26, it's gotta be clear the above was BS now, right?

I mean, if it was ever in doubt.

[Beachcat97]

Am I crazy, or is Robbins actually just going to let Miller begin next season without an extension? Like, Miller would probably resign if an extension weren't offered this offseason, right?

[zonagrad]

Though Arizona president Dr. Robert Robbins stated publicly in recent days that he wants Miller to return as coach next season, he communicated in a brief meeting last week that he couldn’t get a contract extension approved by the school’s Board of Regents and left Miller with the impression that Robbins would prefer a parting of ways, according to one of the people, who is familiar with Miller’s thinking.

So with Adia Barnes getting extended through 2025-26, it's gotta be clear the above was BS now, right?

I mean, if it was ever in doubt.

That would be my assumption.

Before Barnes extension: 95% certain Robbins full of shit.
After Barnes extension: 99.93% certain Robbins full of shit.

[AzCatFan2]

First, congrats to Coach Barnes. Well deserved extension, as I assume we all are in agreement here. Happy to see her here for the long term.

Second, not sure about the statement about not being able to get a Miller extension past the BOR. There may be BOR members waiting for the IARP ruling. With nothing of the sort hanging over Barnes' program, might have been much easier to get that one approved.

Third, judging by what we agree is a very good group of returning players, I think that if the gang stays together, next year, we should be Arizona good again. Top 2 in the PAC and a solid pick for Sweet 16. And once you get into the second weekend of the Tournament, anything can happen.

[84Cat]

Am I crazy, or is Robbins actually just going to let Miller begin next season without an extension? Like, Miller would probably resign if an extension weren't offered this offseason, right?

Looks like Robbins is going to blow the whole thing up and start over. I was hoping the boosters would talk some sense into him. Interesting times ahead. Hopefully I'm wrong and something gets done before the season starts

[TheCat]

And yet, almost another week in the books, and no real news. I imagine things are happening, just very privately.

Announced today that Barnes was extended till 25-26. We know they are now working contracts for coaches although that might be an auto extension but terms were not disclosed yet.

[TheCat]

First, congrats to Coach Barnes. Well deserved extension, as I assume we all are in agreement here. Happy to see her here for the long term.

Second, not sure about the statement about not being able to get a Miller extension past the BOR. There may be BOR members waiting for the IARP ruling. With nothing of the sort hanging over Barnes' program, might have been much easier to get that one approved.

Third, judging by what we agree is a very good group of returning players, I think that if the gang stays together, next year, we should be Arizona good again. Top 2 in the PAC and a solid pick for Sweet 16. And once you get into the second weekend of the Tournament, anything can happen.

BOR has not approved Barnes contract. That is why the Robbin's statement makes no sense about Miller. It is the proposed contract (terms not published yet). "The school announced Thursday that it has extended head coach Adia Barnes through the 2025-26 season, pending approval from the Arizona Board of Regents."

[Spaceman Spiff]

First, congrats to Coach Barnes. Well deserved extension, as I assume we all are in agreement here. Happy to see her here for the long term.

Second, not sure about the statement about not being able to get a Miller extension past the BOR. There may be BOR members waiting for the IARP ruling. With nothing of the sort hanging over Barnes' program, might have been much easier to get that one approved.

Third, judging by what we agree is a very good group of returning players, I think that if the gang stays together, next year, we should be Arizona good again. Top 2 in the PAC and a solid pick for Sweet 16. And once you get into the second weekend of the Tournament, anything can happen.

BOR has not approved Barnes contract. That is why the Robbin's statement makes no sense about Miller. It is the proposed contract (terms not published yet). "The school announced Thursday that it has extended head coach Adia Barnes through the 2025-26 season, pending approval from the Arizona Board of Regents."

That's #1 for me. BOR said they leave extensions to the institution in response to the article's claim that Robbins told Miller he couldn't get an extension from BOR. The Barnes news seems to totally back that BOR only signs off on what the institution does.

Second, it would destroy any narrative that extensions weren't possible because of Covid budgets. Barnes was signed through the 23-24 season, it appears. She got extended (deservedly) and Covid budget was no issue.

Waiting for the IARP would be foolish, IMO. At the current IARP pace, Miller's contract will terminate before they decide anything.

But mostly it's that this news confirms it's the institution that decides the extension and the BOR stamps it. This is clearly on Robbins and if he told Miller otherwise, he's lying.

[TheCat]

Looks like Coach Wade is calling Dukey V a liar. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lsu-coach- ... 24422.html

[Chicat]

Haha good. Fuck that half blind, full bald, Coach K suppository.

[84Cat]

Sean Miller disagrees

[UAEebs86]

As if.

[Irish27]

[Spaceman Spiff]

Looks like Coach Wade is calling Dukey V a liar. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lsu-coach- ... 24422.html

Get em, Will.

[UAEebs86]

Fuck Greg Hansen

[Beachcat97]

Really need to forward to the end of this movie.

[SCCats]

b. Has a better track record than Miller

And that's because there isn't anyone out there who checks both of those boxes. And I think you know that.

Get off the idea of track record. Just find the best guy. In 2008 I suggested Tony Bennett to replace Lute after Tony had coached all of 40 college basketball games in his entire career.

Tony Bennett went 17-16 in '08-'09 at Wazzu.

When I suggested him he was like 26-8 his first season and like 10-0 so far in ooc. If you can do that at WSU, you're a winner.

And he went 26-8 in his first year, and 26-9 in his second.

[SCCats]

First, congrats to Coach Barnes.

^^^^^^^^

There's a value add coach. JUST IN CASE we had forgotten what they look like.