Duke

[Beachcat97]

They might have kicked the tires on a guy like Brad Stevens but I’m sure it was unofficial back channel shit. Duke would never allow it to come out publicly that a coach told them to go kick rocks.

This kind of relates to the question I posed: if Duke can't pick their next coach, can anyone? I mean, we've seen UCLA hire their 3rd or 4th choice (twice). UNC has a pretty nice roster of former Tar Heels who became coaches to choose from. Kentucky blew it with Gillespie, but Calipari has more than made up for it. It's interesting to me if the most storied programs in college hoops history can't go out and hire a legit star from the coaching ranks. If you'd told me last year that Jon Scheyer would succeed K, I'd have laughed.

[AZCatGirl]

Clearly he waited until Miller was out of the way so he wouldn't get his ass kicked by us yet again.

[UofAlum05]

Clearly he waited until Miller was out of the way so he wouldn't get his ass kicked by us yet again.

For real. Absolutely nothing against Lloyd, but in one time match up against Duke where it is Coach K's last game I would 1000x over select Miller as the HC for that one game. Miller strikes me as petty enough to want to kick Duke's ass simply because it is Coach K's last game.

[Chicat]

They might have kicked the tires on a guy like Brad Stevens but I’m sure it was unofficial back channel shit. Duke would never allow it to come out publicly that a coach told them to go kick rocks.

This kind of relates to the question I posed: if Duke can't pick their next coach, can anyone? I mean, we've seen UCLA hire their 3rd or 4th choice (twice). UNC has a pretty nice roster of former Tar Heels who became coaches to choose from. Kentucky blew it with Gillespie, but Calipari has more than made up for it. It's interesting to me if the most storied programs in college hoops history can't go out and hire a legit star from the coaching ranks. If you'd told me last year that Jon Scheyer would succeed K, I'd have laughed.

I wouldn’t have. He’s the coaching alum with the best handle on the current team & recruiting.

They were always going to hire an alum. The question was which one.

Hurley, Wojo, Collins, and Paulus were all probably in the same group. All have run their own programs, but were pretty removed from what was happening within Duke currently.

Dawkins, Capel, Brey, and Bender disqualified themselves by either being too old or not having recent success.

Amaker and Snyder would probably be top of the list along with his head assistant (Scheyer) but might be really expensive AND want to hire their own staff, implement their own system, etc.

The Scheyer choice doesn’t mean they can’t get anyone they want. It actually means they are super choosy.

[UofAlum05]

They might have kicked the tires on a guy like Brad Stevens but I’m sure it was unofficial back channel shit. Duke would never allow it to come out publicly that a coach told them to go kick rocks.

This kind of relates to the question I posed: if Duke can't pick their next coach, can anyone? I mean, we've seen UCLA hire their 3rd or 4th choice (twice). UNC has a pretty nice roster of former Tar Heels who became coaches to choose from. Kentucky blew it with Gillespie, but Calipari has more than made up for it. It's interesting to me if the most storied programs in college hoops history can't go out and hire a legit star from the coaching ranks. If you'd told me last year that Jon Scheyer would succeed K, I'd have laughed.

I wouldn’t have. He’s the coaching alum with the best handle on the current team & recruiting.

They were always going to hire an alum. The question was which one.

Hurley, Wojo, Collins, and Paulus were all probably in the same group. All have run their own programs, but were pretty removed from what was happening within Duke currently.

Dawkins, Capel, Brey, and Bender disqualified themselves by either being too old or not having recent success.

Amaker and Snyder would probably be top of the list along with his head assistant (Scheyer) but might be really expensive AND want to hire their own staff, implement their own system, etc.

The Scheyer choice doesn’t mean they can’t get anyone they want. It actually means they are super choosy.

There is a conspiracy theory floating around that that some major dirt was about to blow up about Duke. This was orchestrated between the NCAA and Duke to mitigate damage. If there is an ounce of truth to that, and I hate Conspiracy shit, then there is no way Capel is even considered for the gig.

[EastCoastCat]

The only conspiracy I am seeing at the moment is the Dukie/Rat Face Victory tour planned for next season between the NCAA, Duke and ESPN.

It will be more nauseating than any images Chi can conjure up.

[Chicat]

I’d love to believe in that conspiracy but I honestly think that some of the changes coming down the pike, namely kids being able to be compensated for their likeness and the new leagues that are popping up, we’re going to make it a lot harder for Shevshevsky to stay on top of the recruiting game.

If Nike money and the Duke name was no longer the best way to get paid to play and get a ton of national exposure right out of high school, Ol’ Ratface was no longer going to be able to pull in classes where he gets three of the top five players in America and lead them to a Sweet Sixteen loss.

[Beachcat97]

I’d love to believe in that conspiracy but I honestly think that some of the changes coming down the pike, namely kids being able to be compensated for their likeness and the new leagues that are popping up, we’re going to make it a lot harder for Shevshevsky to stay on top of the recruiting game.

If Nike money and the Duke name was no longer the best way to get paid to play and get a ton of national exposure right out of high school, Ol’ Ratface was no longer going to be able to pull in classes where he gets three of the top five players in America and lead them to a Sweet Sixteen loss.

Chi, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't consider K to be the greatest coach of all time. Where would he rank? Top 5? Lower?

[JMarkJohns]

They might have kicked the tires on a guy like Brad Stevens but I’m sure it was unofficial back channel shit. Duke would never allow it to come out publicly that a coach told them to go kick rocks.

This kind of relates to the question I posed: if Duke can't pick their next coach, can anyone? I mean, we've seen UCLA hire their 3rd or 4th choice (twice). UNC has a pretty nice roster of former Tar Heels who became coaches to choose from. Kentucky blew it with Gillespie, but Calipari has more than made up for it. It's interesting to me if the most storied programs in college hoops history can't go out and hire a legit star from the coaching ranks. If you'd told me last year that Jon Scheyer would succeed K, I'd have laughed.

I wouldn’t have. He’s the coaching alum with the best handle on the current team & recruiting.

They were always going to hire an alum. The question was which one.

Hurley, Wojo, Collins, and Paulus were all probably in the same group. All have run their own programs, but were pretty removed from what was happening within Duke currently.

Dawkins, Capel, Brey, and Bender disqualified themselves by either being too old or not having recent success.

Amaker and Snyder would probably be top of the list along with his head assistant (Scheyer) but might be really expensive AND want to hire their own staff, implement their own system, etc.

The Scheyer choice doesn’t mean they can’t get anyone they want. It actually means they are super choosy.

There is a conspiracy theory floating around that that some major dirt was about to blow up about Duke. This was orchestrated between the NCAA and Duke to mitigate damage. If there is an ounce of truth to that, and I hate Conspiracy shit, then there is no way Capel is even considered for the gig.

I know I off-handedly mentioned on Twitter and WA that I believe there’s more to it, but it is a believe absent proof. Still, this was my post/tweet:

Conspiracy theorist in me says there’s major dirt on K and in order to punish but not kick dirt all over the program this exit was done by school and NCAA behind the scenes, and the “game changing” excuse created to push a narrative, but also allow the NCAA to use it and say, “see, we are losing our best coaches because they don’t believe in pay-for-play and believe amateur basketball should be for the love of the game.”

It all happened too quickly, too cleanly, and coming off multiple evidences benefit links to Duke players, too conveniently to happen organically.

[JMarkJohns]

Long story short, when has anything wirh a major college coaching change happened that suddenly, that quickly, that cleanly?

Within the first few hours of the Retirement announcement Duke had rubber-stamped Ks choice for the transition.

Almost like “I will only agree to this if you give Scheyer the position and no recruiting violations/penalties so he can start with a clean slate” edict was made behind the scenes.

Like there was zero pushback.

Feels too orchestrated to be organic and with the timing coming just weeks after linked proof of payment to Zion after months of mouthed accusations of Zion’s family getting paid, it’s all too convenient.

[EastCoastCat]

Exactly JMJ. That's why I posted that's the real conspiracy playing out.

It's a Hollywood script with the puppet masters being the NCAA, ESPN, Coach K and one of college basketball's flagship brands.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Want to watch arguably the whitest video of all time, as well as one that I feel justifies decades of hating Duke?

https://mobile.twitter.com/stoolpreside ... 30215?s=10

[UofAlum05]

They might have kicked the tires on a guy like Brad Stevens but I’m sure it was unofficial back channel shit. Duke would never allow it to come out publicly that a coach told them to go kick rocks.

This kind of relates to the question I posed: if Duke can't pick their next coach, can anyone? I mean, we've seen UCLA hire their 3rd or 4th choice (twice). UNC has a pretty nice roster of former Tar Heels who became coaches to choose from. Kentucky blew it with Gillespie, but Calipari has more than made up for it. It's interesting to me if the most storied programs in college hoops history can't go out and hire a legit star from the coaching ranks. If you'd told me last year that Jon Scheyer would succeed K, I'd have laughed.

I wouldn’t have. He’s the coaching alum with the best handle on the current team & recruiting.

They were always going to hire an alum. The question was which one.

Hurley, Wojo, Collins, and Paulus were all probably in the same group. All have run their own programs, but were pretty removed from what was happening within Duke currently.

Dawkins, Capel, Brey, and Bender disqualified themselves by either being too old or not having recent success.

Amaker and Snyder would probably be top of the list along with his head assistant (Scheyer) but might be really expensive AND want to hire their own staff, implement their own system, etc.

The Scheyer choice doesn’t mean they can’t get anyone they want. It actually means they are super choosy.

There is a conspiracy theory floating around that that some major dirt was about to blow up about Duke. This was orchestrated between the NCAA and Duke to mitigate damage. If there is an ounce of truth to that, and I hate Conspiracy shit, then there is no way Capel is even considered for the gig.

I know I off-handedly mentioned on Twitter and WA that I believe there’s more to it, but it is a believe absent proof. Still, this was my post/tweet:

Conspiracy theorist in me says there’s major dirt on K and in order to punish but not kick dirt all over the program this exit was done by school and NCAA behind the scenes, and the “game changing” excuse created to push a narrative, but also allow the NCAA to use it and say, “see, we are losing our best coaches because they don’t believe in pay-for-play and believe amateur basketball should be for the love of the game.”

It all happened too quickly, too cleanly, and coming off multiple evidences benefit links to Duke players, too conveniently to happen organically.

Yep I saw you and a few others float the idea. Whatever the case I think Capel has too much baggage (literally) inside the college basketball Universe to ever be considered. I've also heard that programs won't touch Altman for another type of baggage.

[YoDeFoe]

JMJ with the "Jordan was forced to take a break from basketball due to gambling" level of conspiracy and I love it.

[Chicat]

I’d love to believe in that conspiracy but I honestly think that some of the changes coming down the pike, namely kids being able to be compensated for their likeness and the new leagues that are popping up, we’re going to make it a lot harder for Shevshevsky to stay on top of the recruiting game.

If Nike money and the Duke name was no longer the best way to get paid to play and get a ton of national exposure right out of high school, Ol’ Ratface was no longer going to be able to pull in classes where he gets three of the top five players in America and lead them to a Sweet Sixteen loss.

Chi, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't consider K to be the greatest coach of all time. Where would he rank? Top 5? Lower?

He’s #1 in my list of sanctimonious pricks.

[Beachcat97]

I’d love to believe in that conspiracy but I honestly think that some of the changes coming down the pike, namely kids being able to be compensated for their likeness and the new leagues that are popping up, we’re going to make it a lot harder for Shevshevsky to stay on top of the recruiting game.

If Nike money and the Duke name was no longer the best way to get paid to play and get a ton of national exposure right out of high school, Ol’ Ratface was no longer going to be able to pull in classes where he gets three of the top five players in America and lead them to a Sweet Sixteen loss.

Chi, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't consider K to be the greatest coach of all time. Where would he rank? Top 5? Lower?

He’s #1 in my list of sanctimonious pricks.

But if you had to take the question seriously?

[Chicat]

I’d love to believe in that conspiracy but I honestly think that some of the changes coming down the pike, namely kids being able to be compensated for their likeness and the new leagues that are popping up, we’re going to make it a lot harder for Shevshevsky to stay on top of the recruiting game.

If Nike money and the Duke name was no longer the best way to get paid to play and get a ton of national exposure right out of high school, Ol’ Ratface was no longer going to be able to pull in classes where he gets three of the top five players in America and lead them to a Sweet Sixteen loss.

Chi, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't consider K to be the greatest coach of all time. Where would he rank? Top 5? Lower?

He’s #1 in my list of sanctimonious pricks.

But if you had to take the question seriously?

He’s probably Top 15. I have to grade him on a sliding scale since he’s had free unlimited national marketing from ESPN for decades now. Pretty easy to recruit when you have “journalists” calling you the greatest thing that’s ever happened to college sports.

[JMarkJohns]

JMJ with the "Jordan was forced to take a break from basketball due to gambling" level of conspiracy and I love it.

I mean, what other athlete at the heights of heights of their Greatest Of All Time trajectory career retires to toil in the minor leagues of a sport he isn’t very good at right after his father was mysteriously murdered right after it was revealed he was an insane gambling junkie?

The answer is nobody ever.

JUST BECAUSE YOURE CRAZY DOESNT MEAN THERES NOT A SPORT-ALTERING CONSPIRACY RUN AMOK!

[Beachcat97]

I’d love to believe in that conspiracy but I honestly think that some of the changes coming down the pike, namely kids being able to be compensated for their likeness and the new leagues that are popping up, we’re going to make it a lot harder for Shevshevsky to stay on top of the recruiting game.

If Nike money and the Duke name was no longer the best way to get paid to play and get a ton of national exposure right out of high school, Ol’ Ratface was no longer going to be able to pull in classes where he gets three of the top five players in America and lead them to a Sweet Sixteen loss.

Chi, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't consider K to be the greatest coach of all time. Where would he rank? Top 5? Lower?

He’s #1 in my list of sanctimonious pricks.

But if you had to take the question seriously?

He’s probably Top 15. I have to grade him on a sliding scale since he’s had free unlimited national marketing from ESPN for decades now. Pretty easy to recruit when you have “journalists” calling you the greatest thing that’s ever happened to college sports.

I mean, his track record is pretty undeniable. Who knows how much cheating has gone on there, aside from what we already know? He absolutely had some years where the on-court results didn't hit anywhere near expectations. But 12 FFs is kinda nuts.

If he's only in the top 15, I'd be curious who your top 5 are.

[midnightx]

Chi, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't consider K to be the greatest coach of all time. Where would he rank? Top 5? Lower?

He’s #1 in my list of sanctimonious pricks.

But if you had to take the question seriously?

He’s probably Top 15. I have to grade him on a sliding scale since he’s had free unlimited national marketing from ESPN for decades now. Pretty easy to recruit when you have “journalists” calling you the greatest thing that’s ever happened to college sports.

I mean, his track record is pretty undeniable. Who knows how much cheating has gone on there, aside from what we already know? He absolutely had some years where the on-court results didn't hit anywhere near expectations. But 12 FFs is kinda nuts.

If he's only in the top 15, I'd be curious who your top 5 are.

Yeah, Coach K is a bit despicable, but regardless if he was the media's darling, had an advantage from his Team USA position, or had the fortune of Duke receiving some very favorable draws in the tournament over the years, he won a lot of games on the biggest stage and got his team to the final four a lot. Did his program compete with Kansas and Kentucky in recruiting by playing the money game behind the scenes? It seems likely -- everyone in the sport knows the one-and-dones get paid, and clearly they weren't going to Duke simply because they wanted to play for a legend, therefore passing up on a payday from Cal or Self, Duke clearly started to play that behind the scenes money game, but they played it well and pretty much went unscathed, even though the Zion allegations continue to surface. As a college coach, Coach K has to be a top five guy, as annoying as that may be.

[Beachcat97]

As a college coach, Coach K has to be a top five guy, as annoying as that may be.

I mean, I'm not sure anyone can seriously argue otherwise.

If we're being truly objective, I think there's even a case to be made for K ranking #1. I'm not sure Wooden ever experienced the degree of competition (on and off the court) that K has, and of course Wooden too has a shadow of suspicion from his program's relationship with Sam Gilbert.

Anyway, I don't have the same deep dislike of K that some here have. I just look at his body of work and can't help but give the guy props.

[UofAlum05]

Growing up in North Carolina and having zero rooting interest for either I was always a bit more impressed with Dean Smith's UNC program. It just felt like they were in the Final Four every year and what they ended up putting in the NBA was damn impressive.

[Beachcat97]

Growing up in North Carolina and having zero rooting interest for either I was always a bit more impressed with Dean Smith's UNC program. It just felt like they were in the Final Four every year and what they ended up putting in the NBA was damn impressive.

He didn't coach quite as long at UNC as K has at Duke, but K still has him beat on FFs and NCs.

And Duke players' NBA success has gotten better over the last decade or so. Not sure how much that has to do with K, though. Zion was going to be an NBA phenom regardless of where he went to college. Same with Tatum.

[Chicat]

The Ratface lovefest is nauseating. If I wanted to see the man’s balls get gargled I’d check in on DukieV’s Twitter feed.

[Beachcat97]

https://slate.com/culture/2021/06/mike- ... egacy.html

[EastCoastCat]

The Ratface lovefest is nauseating. If I wanted to see the man’s balls get gargled I’d check in on DukieV’s Twitter feed.

[midnightx]

Growing up in North Carolina and having zero rooting interest for either I was always a bit more impressed with Dean Smith's UNC program. It just felt like they were in the Final Four every year and what they ended up putting in the NBA was damn impressive.

He didn't coach quite as long at UNC as K has at Duke, but K still has him beat on FFs and NCs.

And Duke players' NBA success has gotten better over the last decade or so. Not sure how much that has to do with K, though. Zion was going to be an NBA phenom regardless of where he went to college. Same with Tatum.

Duke's recent NBA success was mostly due to one-and-dones -- Duke was a short layover to the pros. When Coach K had players in his program long-term during the 80's, 90's, and early 00's, he developed very few for lasting NBA careers and success.

[97cats]

certainly Duke is Duke --- they're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver re-runs.

[UAEebs86]

certainly Duke is Duke --- they're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver re-runs.

In my head I hear the NY accent. "Leave it to Beav - uh re-runs"

Had to look up his name: Pete Gillen

[Beachcat97]

Growing up in North Carolina and having zero rooting interest for either I was always a bit more impressed with Dean Smith's UNC program. It just felt like they were in the Final Four every year and what they ended up putting in the NBA was damn impressive.

He didn't coach quite as long at UNC as K has at Duke, but K still has him beat on FFs and NCs.

And Duke players' NBA success has gotten better over the last decade or so. Not sure how much that has to do with K, though. Zion was going to be an NBA phenom regardless of where he went to college. Same with Tatum.

Duke's recent NBA success was mostly due to one-and-dones -- Duke was a short layover to the pros. When Coach K had players in his program long-term during the 80's, 90's, and early 00's, he developed very few for lasting NBA careers and success.

Johnny Dawkins
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner
Grant Hill
Cherokee Parks
Elton Brand
Shane Battier
Corey Maggette
Carlos Boozer
M Dunleavy Jr.
Chris Duhon
JJ Redick

Not sure how you're defining a "lasting NBA career," but this isn't a bad list. All these guys stuck in the league long enough to make a lot of money. Probably not as good as UNC's from that same period.

[TheCat]

Really? Parks, Maggette (clearly paid in college), Dunleavy and Duhon on that list?

[Chicat]

Maggette was a 1-&-done, and if memory serves, Saint Shevshevsky screamed at Corey’s mother in front of a bunch of people, “You’re killing my program!!!” when she came to tell him in person that Corey was going to the NBA.

[midnightx]

Growing up in North Carolina and having zero rooting interest for either I was always a bit more impressed with Dean Smith's UNC program. It just felt like they were in the Final Four every year and what they ended up putting in the NBA was damn impressive.

He didn't coach quite as long at UNC as K has at Duke, but K still has him beat on FFs and NCs.

And Duke players' NBA success has gotten better over the last decade or so. Not sure how much that has to do with K, though. Zion was going to be an NBA phenom regardless of where he went to college. Same with Tatum.

Duke's recent NBA success was mostly due to one-and-dones -- Duke was a short layover to the pros. When Coach K had players in his program long-term during the 80's, 90's, and early 00's, he developed very few for lasting NBA careers and success.

Johnny Dawkins
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner
Grant Hill
Cherokee Parks
Elton Brand
Shane Battier
Corey Maggette
Carlos Boozer
M Dunleavy Jr.
Chris Duhon
JJ Redick

Not sure how you're defining a "lasting NBA career," but this isn't a bad list. All these guys stuck in the league long enough to make a lot of money. Probably not as good as UNC's from that same period.

That isn't a great list; hardly one to celebrate considering how widely successful Duke was for a couple of decades prior to entering its one-and-done phase. Hill was the only superstar, but his career was saddled with injuries and he never made a lasting impact. Ferry was a massive bust. Laettner stayed in the league, but was largely irrelevant. Brand, Battier, Meggette, and Dunleavy Jr. had respectable careers. The point was, for all of his great college teams, Coach K never developed a notable amount of quality NBA talent prior to his one-and-done era. Clearly Coach K put a handful of guys into the league, but it isn't as if his program was an assembly line for NBA futures.

[Merkin]

Elton Brand, sophomore William Avery, and freshman Corey Maggette, were the first three players under Mike Krzyzewski to leave early for the draft and not play the full four years at Duke.

Luke had a pretty good run too. Think Brian Williams/Bison Dele was the first UA player to leave early for the NBA. He of course was a transfer anyway.

[84Cat]

You mean not including Eric Money & Coniel Norman

[Merkin]

You mean not including Eric Money & Coniel Norman

You are correct of course, I meant the first UA player under Lute. He had quite the streak, same with K, but it was a lot different game then.

Sean Elliott staying 4 years? Inconceivable today.

[Beachcat97]

The point was, for all of his great college teams, Coach K never developed a notable amount of quality NBA talent prior to his one-and-done era. Clearly Coach K put a handful of guys into the league, but it isn't as if his program was an assembly line for NBA futures.

Was Lute Olson's?

[Irish27]

Jay Williams should do his homework before tweeting, https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-ce ... ted-tweet/.

[UAEebs86]

What an idiot.

[azgreg]

He claimed his account was hacked.

[Merkin]

Why can't people just admit they are wrong?

[Chicat]

Someone hacked his Twitter account to post one inaccurate tweet? Usually it’s to sell sunglasses or diet pills, but maybe this hacker was having an off day or something…

[UAEebs86]

[Chicat]

KC Jones, ML Carr, and Doc Rivers also would like to know what the fuck Williams was smoking.

[gronk4heisman]

KC Jones, ML Carr, and Doc Rivers also would like to know what the fuck Williams was smoking.

I get how you can forget Russell coached (not really) if it was before you were born, but all three of these guys coached in Jay Williams lifetime. Doc was hired while he was supposed to be on his rookie contract but threw it away by riding a motorcycle without a helmet and subsequently getting addicted to pain killers. So maybe that's why everything is a blur.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Duke sucks

[azgreg]

Fuck Duke.

[Beachcat97]

Fuck Duke.

Guess their recruiting isn't gonna fall off too much once K's gone.

[84Cat]

3 top 10 prospects, Jon better deliver some big wins and go deep in the tournament

[Beachcat97]

3 top 10 prospects, Jon better deliver some big wins and go deep in the tournament

With some of those players he's going to have, even a minimally competent coach could stumble into the Sweet 16.