UCLA Basketball in trouble!

[Winger]

4 kids BC97. All recently graduated or currently enrolled in universities in southern CA, including USC.

Admission rate: UCLA 8.8% USC 10.0%
Average SAT: UCLA 1405 USC 1440
Average GPA: UCLA 3.93 USC 3.83

Those numbers are in line with my personal experience of late, which says that there is zero meaningful difference, with both schools being reach for everyone who applies.

Only material difference is the preference given to CA residents by UCLA.

Course how hard a university is to get in to has just about nothing to do with getting your basketball recruits enrolled. And, accordingly, this isn't the explanation for why it has been harder to win at SC (would note that UCLA hasn't been great since Howland, and wasn't before Howland, as well).

Welp, consider me staggered. I had no idea USC's admissions rate and other metrics had moved this much. When I graduated from HS, anyone with a 3.0 and a lot of money could go there. And the average SAT score was probably closer to 1000.

This is from last year. Data looks a little different:

https://www.bestcolleges.com/united-sta ... c-vs-ucla/

Yeah it is insane what has transpired. As I understand it there was a SC President in the 1990s (I think) who made it his mission to improve the academic standing and profile of the school. It obviously took some time but now SC is ranked about 25th and UCLA about 20th nationally and their admission requirements reflect that reality.

Enjoyed the discussion BC97. Don't want to lose the forest for the tree of me harping on admission requirements lol.

I appear to think less of Mussleman as a coach than you (note that I don't like the dude at all which colors my take I am sure) but it is going to be interesting to see what happens to UCLA/Cronin and SC/Mussleman with the move in to the B1G.

Recruiting, rankings, tournament performance, all of it. I don't know how it is going to turn out but I don't think either coach is the answer to getting either program to elite status.

FWIW I have heard some stuff the past say 18 months regarding Cronin losing his recruiting fields. Similar to what happened to Alford.

To get more toward what you were posting above I am sure that Muss will not be able to get the same types of young men in to SC as he did Arkansas. One can do things in the SEC that one can't elsewhere and especially not at a place like SC.

[Merkin]

UCLA athletics has their own admissions department. Scholarship athletes do not have to apply like normal students do.


UCLA does not require NCAA athletes to apply through the normal admissions process. UCLA uses a holistic review process that assesses athletic talent and academic qualifications, and does not adhere to the standard UCLA procedures that use the common UC application. The admissions process also does not hold student-athletes to the same academic or application review standards as the general applicant pool.

[Beachcat97]

UCLA athletics has their own admissions department. Scholarship athletes do not have to apply like normal students do.


UCLA does not require NCAA athletes to apply through the normal admissions process. UCLA uses a holistic review process that assesses athletic talent and academic qualifications, and does not adhere to the standard UCLA procedures that use the common UC application. The admissions process also does not hold student-athletes to the same academic or application review standards as the general applicant pool.

Do you happen to know if it's always been this way, Merk, or if this is a more recent change? The latter would make more sense to me, but who knows.

[Beachcat97]

FWIW I have heard some stuff the past say 18 months regarding Cronin losing his recruiting fields. Similar to what happened to Alford.

To get more toward what you were posting above I am sure that Muss will not be able to get the same types of young men in to SC as he did Arkansas. One can do things in the SEC that one can't elsewhere and especially not at a place like SC.

Cronin is not a good recruiter, but ucla will always attract players because of its history, location and visibility. ucla has tried unsuccessfully for years to hire a better coach, but the reality is that only second/third tier coaches like Alford and Cronin will have interest. It's obviously a step up from New Mexico and Cincinnati.

Now they're in a weird spot with all these new players coming in. Good luck with that.

I'm not sure why you think Muss can't recruit at USC. Andy freaking Enfield got the Mobleys, Collier, Bronny and a bunch of other top 50 guys over the last decade. If he can do it, I'm unsure why Muss can't. You actually think some of those high level midwestern players (ie: Big 10 country) wouldn't want to play in SoCal?

[Merkin]

UCLA athletics has their own admissions department. Scholarship athletes do not have to apply like normal students do.


UCLA does not require NCAA athletes to apply through the normal admissions process. UCLA uses a holistic review process that assesses athletic talent and academic qualifications, and does not adhere to the standard UCLA procedures that use the common UC application. The admissions process also does not hold student-athletes to the same academic or application review standards as the general applicant pool.

Do you happen to know if it's always been this way, Merk, or if this is a more recent change? The latter would make more sense to me, but who knows.

Been that way for a very long time at UCLA. Think we had discussion on it somewhere. Even Cal Poly where I worked at the AD handled their own admissions. The athletes just had to meet the minimum CSU requirements. Believe some schools such as Stanford and Cal required their NCAA athletes to also go through the normal admissions process. Which makes sense for Stanford and Cal as their emphasis is been leaning less on athletics and more on academics.

The NCAA students still have to attend classes and compete with the best and the brightest, but the NCAA athletes have help. They have tutors, a list of skate classes, and keep a copy of all the tests they can on file. I remember one time walking into Anthro 101 at the UA and it was full of athletes and Greeks. Apparently the Greek societies do the same thing. Extremely easy class.

[EastCoastCat]

UCLA athletics has their own admissions department. Scholarship athletes do not have to apply like normal students do.


UCLA does not require NCAA athletes to apply through the normal admissions process. UCLA uses a holistic review process that assesses athletic talent and academic qualifications, and does not adhere to the standard UCLA procedures that use the common UC application. The admissions process also does not hold student-athletes to the same academic or application review standards as the general applicant pool.

Do you happen to know if it's always been this way, Merk, or if this is a more recent change? The latter would make more sense to me, but who knows.

Been that way for a very long time at UCLA. Think we had discussion on it somewhere. Even Cal Poly where I worked at the AD handled their own admissions. The athletes just had to meet the minimum CSU requirements. Believe some schools such as Stanford and Cal required their NCAA athletes to also go through the normal admissions process. Which makes sense for Stanford and Cal as their emphasis is been leaning less on athletics and more on academics.

The NCAA students still have to attend classes and compete with the best and the brightest, but the NCAA athletes have help. They have tutors, a list of skate classes, and keep a copy of all the tests they can on file. I remember one time walking into Anthro 101 at the UA and it was full of athletes and Greeks. Apparently the Greek societies do the same thing. Extremely easy class.

I was in that Anthro class. They used the same tests over and over again. Easy A.

[84Cat]

[Merkin]

Fuck that giving them a home game without one in return.

[AzCatFan2]

If the game in LA is at Crypto.com and not at Pauley, I'm fine with this. There will more more Arizona fans there than UCLA right in their own back yard.

[Beachcat97]

I mean, these will probably just end up being non-conference wins while Cronin is there, so there's that.

[Winger]

Fuck that giving them a home game without one in return.

My understanding is that Cronin would never agree to a game in McKale.

[Beachcat97]

Fuck that giving them a home game without one in return.

My understanding is that Cronin would never agree to a game in McKale.

He's the one whose players spit on fans, so maybe the problem isn't McKale?

He's a coward and a loser. And he'll be unemployed before too long.

[SCCats]

I’d be fine not seeing them for a decade.

Or two.

[pc in NM]

Fuck that giving them a home game without one in return.

My understanding is that Cronin would never agree to a game in McKale.

He's the one whose players spit on fans, so maybe the problem isn't McKale?

He's a coward and a loser. And he'll be unemployed before too long.

All the games will be played on neutral courts.

Tucson does not have a viable "neutral court - so Phoenix it is...

[TheCat]

UCLA athletics has their own admissions department. Scholarship athletes do not have to apply like normal students do.


UCLA does not require NCAA athletes to apply through the normal admissions process. UCLA uses a holistic review process that assesses athletic talent and academic qualifications, and does not adhere to the standard UCLA procedures that use the common UC application. The admissions process also does not hold student-athletes to the same academic or application review standards as the general applicant pool.

Do you happen to know if it's always been this way, Merk, or if this is a more recent change? The latter would make more sense to me, but who knows.

Been that way for a very long time at UCLA. Think we had discussion on it somewhere. Even Cal Poly where I worked at the AD handled their own admissions. The athletes just had to meet the minimum CSU requirements. Believe some schools such as Stanford and Cal required their NCAA athletes to also go through the normal admissions process. Which makes sense for Stanford and Cal as their emphasis is been leaning less on athletics and more on academics.

The NCAA students still have to attend classes and compete with the best and the brightest, but the NCAA athletes have help. They have tutors, a list of skate classes, and keep a copy of all the tests they can on file. I remember one time walking into Anthro 101 at the UA and it was full of athletes and Greeks. Apparently the Greek societies do the same thing. Extremely easy class.

I posted an article during the UCLA vs Arizona debates that would constantly pop up when they lost. It stated that UCLA had more academic waivers than any other team in the PAC-10 and that most went to athletes. There are also waivers for fine arts but a significant number less. I got pretty heavily involved looking at this when Kevin Love said his favorite class was Masculinity in Sports and they SID said he was joking because the class didn't exist. Later had to correct himself and said it did. The reason he had to correct himself is it would have been an NCAA violation to have setup classes just for athletes. I looked for the class listing in the UCLA class catalog and it was not there.

This isn't the article but read this if you want to know. https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/201 ... d-secrecy/

[Merkin]

This isn't the article but read this if you want to know. https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/201 ... d-secrecy/

Interesting article.

Reads that as long as you meet the minimum requirements to get into an UC you don't need an exception.

Recruits recommended by coaches must be reviewed for admission by exception only if they lack the minimum qualifications for UC. Those include earning a C or better in each of a sequence of college prep courses, including four years of English and three years of math; averaging at least a 3.0 GPA; and taking the SAT or ACT.

Not sure how these exceptions can compete with traditional students.

More than a third had grade point averages below 3.5, well under the 4.25 median GPA for all admitted freshmen that year.

No wonder the Cal programs are less competitive. They decided to stick with being an institute of education, not a pro sports minor leaguue.

The practice is not without risks. UC Berkeley overhauled its admissions process for athletes five years ago after revelations that graduation rates on its men’s football and basketball teams ranked last in the country. But UCLA officials wrote in 2011 that “given UCLA’s highly competitive academic reality for admitting first-year students in general, there is no real alternative…if UCLA is to compete athletically with any success.”

[TheCat]

This isn't the article but read this if you want to know. https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/201 ... d-secrecy/

Interesting article.

Reads that as long as you meet the minimum requirements to get into an UC you don't need an exception.

Recruits recommended by coaches must be reviewed for admission by exception only if they lack the minimum qualifications for UC. Those include earning a C or better in each of a sequence of college prep courses, including four years of English and three years of math; averaging at least a 3.0 GPA; and taking the SAT or ACT.

Not sure how these exceptions can compete with traditional students.

More than a third had grade point averages below 3.5, well under the 4.25 median GPA for all admitted freshmen that year.

No wonder the Cal programs are less competitive. They decided to stick with being an institute of education, not a pro sports minor leaguue.

The practice is not without risks. UC Berkeley overhauled its admissions process for athletes five years ago after revelations that graduation rates on its men’s football and basketball teams ranked last in the country. But UCLA officials wrote in 2011 that “given UCLA’s highly competitive academic reality for admitting first-year students in general, there is no real alternative…if UCLA is to compete athletically with any success.”

What is startling compared to what we have been fed by UCLA homers is that UC Riverside has more difficult admissions than UCLA for athletes.

[CatsbyAZ]

UCLA's full schedule released - Big Ten games listed below. No more steady pace of Thursday/Saturday games. These are all over the weekly map - January: Saturday, then Tuesday, then Friday, then Monday, then Friday, then Tuesday...

[TheCat]

Holy shit. These guys are going to be out of school a lot of time. Look at the dates. Not your typical Thurs/Saturday. Tell me your not going to miss a week of school between some of these games. So much for the "care about the student athlete".

[TheCatInTheHat]

Meanwhile, as far as a Big XII schedule goes, we're like the people at Rick's Cafe Americain...we wait...and wait. I assume the big networks hit the Big Ten, then maybe the ACC for Duke and Carolina, then possibly the SEC over football loyalties, and finally the Big XII, despite the rankings of our teams. Presumably the Big 12 Studios thing doesn't affect it, as they'll just be taking the leftovers. Meanwhile, I've adjusted my TV tier, streaming, and yadda-yadda for the current situation and to add ESPN+. It would be nice (and overdue) if the Big 12 Studios thing is comparable to the networks for the other three P4 leagues. But, it's also a heck of a thing if, after making the changes, people then have to do another jump around and shell out more for B12S. I realize it's a conference decision, but any change is used as an excuse for the delivery types to gouge. (I'd say I'm getting to point of hating TV people, but for me, it actually goes back to the late 70s, so it's really more of a re-affirmation.)