Bear Down Wildcats

dmjcat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Yes to Beilein. That’s a homerun hire and a half.

Beilein is 66 years old..........not a long term solution (or even medium term) .

Greg Marshall

(or Sean Miller if we are able to (somehow) skate past the NCAA mess unscathed)

Don't need a long term solution, just the best solution for the next decade or so.

Also Gregg Marshall is literally the biggest asshole in college basketball. The answer for Arizona (a major program as compared to Wichita where you can get away with a super colossal asshole) isn't to hire a bigger asshole than the one they've already got.

ChooChooCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Yes to Beilein. That’s a homerun hire and a half.

Beilein is 66 years old..........not a long term solution (or even medium term) .

Greg Marshall

(or Sean Miller if we are able to (somehow) skate past the NCAA mess unscathed)

Don't need a long term solution, just the best solution for the next decade or so.

Also Gregg Marshall is literally the biggest asshole in college basketball. The answer for Arizona (a major program as compared to Wichita where you can get away with a super colossal asshole) isn't to hire a bigger asshole than the one they've already got.

If Marshall were to come to AZ and consistently win NOBODY would care what kind of asshole he is

Indiana had the biggest A-Hole in College Basketball for decades (Bobby Knight) and the fans were VERY happy with him

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Yes to Beilein. That’s a homerun hire and a half.

Beilein is 66 years old..........not a long term solution (or even medium term) .

Greg Marshall

(or Sean Miller if we are able to (somehow) skate past the NCAA mess unscathed)

Don't need a long term solution, just the best solution for the next decade or so.

Also Gregg Marshall is literally the biggest asshole in college basketball. The answer for Arizona (a major program as compared to Wichita where you can get away with a super colossal asshole) isn't to hire a bigger asshole than the one they've already got.

If Marshall were to come to AZ and consistently win NOBODY would care what kind of asshole he is

Indiana had the biggest A-Hole in College Basketball for decades (Bobby Knight) and the fans were VERY happy with him

If he did, but I'm not convinced he would. Some guys just work out better at small programs. There's a reason he hasn't left Wichita and more of a reason most bigger schools don't pursue him.

Absolutely Bobby was the king of assholes and he won, but that was a different generation of player. Like I said you can get away with being a major asshole with players nobody big really wants. You can't pull that off at a major school, at least not any more. If he came here and recruited like he did at Wichita then fine he could work, but if he wants to recruit at the level Arizona is capable of recruiting at yeah...no.

Beilein >>>>>>> Marshall

I'd consider Beilein but a couple caveats. He was critical of the revolving door of CBB and might not want to return. He signed a five-year contract with the Cavs and if fired might call it a career. Finally, the reason he could get fired is because he is out of touch with today's players. Just this month he scolded his locker room for "playing like a bunch of thugs" and later told the media he meant "slugs." If we hire the right assistants to do the recruiting and massage egos this might not be a problem. But by all accounts he's running the Cavs like a college team with two-a-days, film study, and that's wearing thin.

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/es ... e-michigan" target="_blank

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/20 ... gs-he-says" target="_blank

Get pitino.

It would be worth it just to have One Eye lose what’s left of his mind.

Lol. I love Pitino.

Let him coach, let his guide the team while it take its lumps, low risk, high reward.

There’s some good Italian up near oro valley he could escape to.

How sturdy are the tables at those restaurants?
Asking for a friend.

ChooChooCat wrote:I'm done guys. You can see me in the baseball/softball forum because that's all I give a shit about now. There's no coming back from a 22 point lead blown against your rivals who are fucking terrible. Miller has lost me for good.

Love that Choo can't stop posting after he say's he's done.

I'm not calling Choo out. Its just that Arizona basketball is more addicting than Meth.

The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

Alieberman wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I'm done guys. You can see me in the baseball/softball forum because that's all I give a shit about now. There's no coming back from a 22 point lead blown against your rivals who are fucking terrible. Miller has lost me for good.

Love that Choo can't stop posting after he say's he's done.

I'm not calling Choo out. Its just that Arizona basketball is more addicting than Meth.

Choo's fine. He's just trying to hang in there and keep perspective. This season has *not* gone as expected, not even close, and it's never good when we're talking about a coaching change in freaking January.

I was having lunch with my dad today, and he told me his minister mentioned the game during his sermon today.

I mean if even church is saying the loss was bad, that's not a good sign for Tucson as a whole. Miller might lose the city if he can't get it together next week.

Beilein will be 67 in a week. I imagine he went to the league to avoid the grind of recruiting, which is tough on anyone, along with dealing the NCAA.

Merkin wrote:Beilein will be 67 in a week. I imagine he went to the league to avoid the grind of recruiting, which is tough on anyone, along with dealing the NCAA.

Totally, Merk. Beilein's name was first mentioned by Choo, who tends to be our best resource for AZ hoops news, so some of us took it and ran.

The reality, though, is that yes, he's no spring chicken, and there could be aspects of the college game he's happy to be done with.

If this season continues to sputter and Miller's dismissal grows more likely, we could work on a more realistic list of possible successors. Would Marshall be on that list? Not sure. Maybe Drew? Beard? A lot of the names likely to come up are under contract, and it's never easy to negotiate a buyout with another institution. Think it's what killed Rick Barnes to UCLA.

For a while now, I've been reluctant to choose a dicey coaching search over more years of Miller, but I'm just about ready to accept the former. It's just time.

Azcatgirl, curious, did you dad say how the pastor worked the cats game into the sermon?

Story of Job?
Jonah and the whale?
The resurrection?

Jokes aside, I am genuinely interested to see how it was worked into Sunday service

Alieberman wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I'm done guys. You can see me in the baseball/softball forum because that's all I give a shit about now. There's no coming back from a 22 point lead blown against your rivals who are fucking terrible. Miller has lost me for good.

Love that Choo can't stop posting after he say's he's done.

I'm not calling Choo out. Its just that Arizona basketball is more addicting than Meth.

Lol

I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

ChooChooCat wrote:I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

Increasingly, this is where most of us are at.

CalStateTempe wrote:Azcatgirl, curious, did you dad say how the pastor worked the cats game into the sermon?

Story of Job?
Jonah and the whale?
The resurrection?

Jokes aside, I am genuinely interested to see how it was worked into Sunday service

Moses, wandering in the wilderness for forty years and never getting to the promised land?

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

Increasingly, this is where most of us are at.

I can say I was an early adopter of this notion after Xavier and buffalo.

Beachcat97 wrote:As calls for a coaching change grow louder, I’m really feeling the weight of Lute’s legacy. For those old enough to have attended (or just rooted for) UofA during the Olson years, the feeling set in at some point that we had “arrived” as an elite program. But after 19 years of no FFs, the reality is that we’re not in that rarefied space occupied by the true elites. We continue to attract excellent players year after year, but the actual success of a program is measured in wins. Not just any wins, either. Wins in March. Wins in big games. Miller deserves credit for the big wins he’s had, and there have indeed been some. But they’re happening less frequently, and for a while now, the team seems to be stagnating rather than thriving as the season wears on.

Like everyone, I wanted Miller’s tenure to resemble Lute’s: multiple decades at the helm, multiple FFs, an adoring fan base and campus community. It hasn’t happened. And maybe it’s silly to imagine that any coach could approximate Lute’s success. But I’m at the point where I’m ready to give someone else a chance. I respect Sean Miller and wish him nothing but the best, but it’s time to part ways.

You have no idea what you are talking about. After 1st round NCAA losses people wanted Lute fired. He underachieved according to many. You want to total the wins we have had under Miller (10 yrs)....add them up and compare to any coach in CBB. He will be in the top 6 or 7. Why don't you tell me how many times Lute won the PAC-10/12 in any 10 year history, then tell me Miller. We have two losses in league that are disappointing ASU and OSU. Always hurts to lose but ask the players who lost that game. I don't think any will say Miller. Will Green a 5 star recruit? This is the same coach that got a 22 pt lead did he forget to coach in the second? This game turned in about 90 seconds at the end of the first half. Combine that with Nico's fouls and Green's no show. MAx was benched because essentially he's quick selfish shot at the end of the half along with ASU counter was enough to lose us the game. He should sit and think. How many on this board didn't think we were holding the ball till the last shot. What do you think Miller's orders were? Say what you want and Choo is welcome to abandon the team but I will stay....be elated, be disappointed, be angry, be ecstatic but most of all be a real fan of young men developing their craft.

CalStateTempe wrote:Azcatgirl, curious, did you dad say how the pastor worked the cats game into the sermon?

Story of Job?
Jonah and the whale?
The resurrection?

Jokes aside, I am genuinely interested to see how it was worked into Sunday service

Didn't think to ask. All he really gave me was a quote,

"When you lose a 21 point lead, you know God isn't on your side."

Which really says it all.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

Increasingly, this is where most of us are at.

I can say I was an early adopter of this notion after Xavier and buffalo.

Same as you felt about Lute when he lost in the first rounds? You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I'm done guys. You can see me in the baseball/softball forum because that's all I give a shit about now. There's no coming back from a 22 point lead blown against your rivals who are fucking terrible. Miller has lost me for good.

Love that Choo can't stop posting after he say's he's done.

I'm not calling Choo out. Its just that Arizona basketball is more addicting than Meth.

Lol

I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

See ya when we change coaches then. Until then you are dismissed. Thanks.

TatetheGreat wrote:The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

Please recite his tourney resume. I will wait. Baylor is a really good team and beat us at their place. How many times has Drew won his league? Next candidate please?

TheCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

Increasingly, this is where most of us are at.

I can say I was an early adopter of this notion after Xavier and buffalo.

Same as you felt about Lute when he lost in the first rounds? You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Proof?


Oh yeah, ain't got any. The proof that Miller has hit his ceiling is irrefutable. You don't have any proof. Miller isn't Lute. Comparing two coaches 20 years apart is idiotic.

Lol...miller isn’t fit carry lutes jockstrap.

One’s a system coach and married to it. The other, an artist.

Try again miller fan boy.

CalStateTempe wrote:Lol...miller isn’t fit carry lutes jockstrap.

One’s a system coach and married to it. The other, an artist.

Try again miller fan boy.

Exactly. Lute was a master of using what he had and would adjust accordingly. Miller is a stubborn mule who recruits well but his system just does not work with elite basketball players. Ayton, the best big man in college basketball, out on the 3 point line running hedge screens?

TheCat wrote:Until then you are dismissed. Thanks.

What are you? 12?

TheCat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

Please recite his tourney resume. I will wait. Baylor is a really good team and beat us at their place. How many times has Drew won his league? Next candidate please?

He's a much better coach than Miller. That's really all that matters. I have no doubt he would exceed Miller's resume at Arizona.

ASUHATER! wrote:

TheCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I still have hope for our future as a program. I'm just done with the Sean Miller era quite frankly.

Increasingly, this is where most of us are at.

I can say I was an early adopter of this notion after Xavier and buffalo.

Same as you felt about Lute when he lost in the first rounds? You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Proof?


Oh yeah, ain't got any. The proof that Miller has hit his ceiling is irrefutable. You don't have any proof. Miller isn't Lute. Comparing two coaches 20 years apart is idiotic.

Your right....Miller has won 30 games in a year multiple times and I don't think Lute ever did.....Maybe you have forgotten when Lute last coached but it wasn't 20 years ago.

TatetheGreat wrote:

TheCat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

Please recite his tourney resume. I will wait. Baylor is a really good team and beat us at their place. How many times has Drew won his league? Next candidate please?

He's a much better coach than Miller. That's really all that matters. I have no doubt he would exceed Miller's resume at Arizona.

He has been a major coach at a high level university for what 16 years or so? How many times has he won his conference? Just answer the question. How far has this GREAT coach gone in the tourney. Answer the question. Excuse while I laugh. You would run his ass out after 3 years.

azgreg wrote:

TheCat wrote:Until then you are dismissed. Thanks.

What are you? 12?

That is what everyone on here acts like after a loss. I thought I would join the crowd. Wanted to wish Choo a happy good bye since he said he was done.....

TheCat wrote:

azgreg wrote:

TheCat wrote:Until then you are dismissed. Thanks.

What are you? 12?

That is what everyone on here acts like after a loss. I thought I would join the crowd. Wanted to wish Choo a happy good bye since he said he was done.....

So you're 12 then.

TheCat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

TheCat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

Please recite his tourney resume. I will wait. Baylor is a really good team and beat us at their place. How many times has Drew won his league? Next candidate please?

He's a much better coach than Miller. That's really all that matters. I have no doubt he would exceed Miller's resume at Arizona.

He has been a major coach at a high level university for what 16 years or so? How many times has he won his conference? Just answer the question. How far has this GREAT coach gone in the tourney. Answer the question. Excuse while I laugh. You would run his ass out after 3 years.

Two EEs at Baylor is an accomplishment. More impressive than at Xavier or Arizona, considering what he was handed when he got to Waco. Also they have been twice ranked #1 in the past couple of seasons. That’s called improvement. I'm sorry you are fine with a stubborn mid-major coach, but more and more of us are ready for a coach who learns and adapts.

TatetheGreat wrote:

TheCat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

TheCat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

Please recite his tourney resume. I will wait. Baylor is a really good team and beat us at their place. How many times has Drew won his league? Next candidate please?

He's a much better coach than Miller. That's really all that matters. I have no doubt he would exceed Miller's resume at Arizona.

He has been a major coach at a high level university for what 16 years or so? How many times has he won his conference? Just answer the question. How far has this GREAT coach gone in the tourney. Answer the question. Excuse while I laugh. You would run his ass out after 3 years.

Two EEs at Baylor is an accomplishment. More impressive than at Xavier or Arizona, considering what he was handed when he got to Waco. Also they have been twice ranked #1 in the past couple of seasons. That’s called improvement. I'm sorry you are fine with a stubborn mid-major coach, but more and more of us are ready for a coach who learns and adapts.

But get you fired at Arizona.....and don't forget that is 2 in 16 years.

No pastor wants to be beaten by a devil.

Here are who the experts think are the top coaches.....tell me which one to hire. https://www.thebiglead.com/2018/04/10/t ... ankings/3/" target="_blank

TatetheGreat wrote:The guy I want most is Scott Drew. I would turn over every couch cushion to pry him from Baylor. That would be my one and only target when the boosters are ready.

I bet it was his all time 46% conference winning record that sold you.

TheCat wrote:But get you fired at Arizona.....and don't forget that is 2 in 16 years.

Who gives a shit? Who is the better coach today? In the same time, Miller has gone to four EEs and has not changed at all. Same guy after 16 years. No growth, no adaptation, nothing. That is with the advantages of coaching at Xavier and Arizona. He's no Thad Matta and certainly no Lute Olson. He hasn't restored Arizona to former glory. He turned it into a mid-major. 11 years in and we're supposed to be happy with that outcome? I'm willing to risk that "success" for a younger coach who does more with less and has experience cleaning up after a scandal. It's only a matter of time until Miller is gone. Get used to it.

Something I have been thinking about is like an effectiveness arc. I have to think in any profession, any career, it resembles something like a bell curve. And I'm wondering if we aren't on the other side of Miller's bell curve. In the NBA coaches are moved around all the time for this reason. 3 years- and the impact is gone and moving around to somewhere else.

I just wonder if a change might be good for Miller and AZ.

To be at the same organization in the same position for over 10 years has to lead to some stagnation. In the TJ era our identity was based on tough, tenacious D. That's who Miller is. Now we are trying to play that way with guys like Nico, and play fast paced like GSW. It just doesn't work.

Miller either needs to change the guys he is recruiting, change his style of play, and his philosophy (something he's proven he won't do), or perhaps go his own way.

and then....

Since taking the Arizona job in 2009, he’s posted a record of 247-73 (.772) and a Pac-12 record of 121-40 (.752). In nine seasons

he’s won five Pac-12 titles, including four of the last five.

that's pretty big.

so maybe we give him some leeway.

Bordercat wrote:and then....

Since taking the Arizona job in 2009, he’s posted a record of 247-73 (.772) and a Pac-12 record of 121-40 (.752). In nine seasons

he’s won five Pac-12 titles, including four of the last five.

that's pretty big.

so maybe we give him some leeway.

We have for the last 4 years already with the missing the tournament, the Xavier collapse, the Buffalo game, the Wichita State game. Enough losing is enough.

I was fine with the loss at first, because I have seen us play on the road and did not expect much. What really turned me off on Miller was the post game comments. He says this teams problem is they lack confidence and then literally two questions late states how he lost confidence in Max Hazzard because of one stupid shot. Did it ever cross his mind that maybe he is the reason this team has no confidence and why his teams always play tight? When a players career can be over because of one brain fart it is pretty hard to play loose. It is no wonder that other then Ira Lee, who I was sure was another transfer waiting to happen prior to the Colorado game, there has not really been anyone who can handle those high expectations for more than two years. I now feel I have miscast blame on the guys who quit on the team like Simon, Akot, and Doutrive when the real problem was the unreal expectation Sean Miller chooses to set on certain players while others have a free pass (I see you Dylan Smith). Have we once had a bench player grow and become a solid starter under Sean Miller? Gabe York is the only one I can think of and I think we all agree he never reached his ceiling. When a coaches way of teaching is only through negative reinforcement which only tears you down it is hard to succeed.

Back to the ASU game, I am assuming the majority of the halftime was Sean Miller berating the one bad shot instead of highlighting the good things we did and pointing to the things that we need to tighten up. Josh Green was horrendous in that game, Smith was normal Dylan Smith outside of Tucson and Baker couldn't stay in front of anyone, yet the man who has been hot for the last week is sitting there on the bench because of one shot. It is an absolute joke of a power trip that cost us the game against our rival and has been going on way to long. Lute was not the best in game coach, but the way the players grew under him is what the biggest difference between him and Sean is. I am all for bringing someone who is actually interested in helping our players grow instead of ruling with an iron fist and fixing a players problems by recruiting over him with the next great stud.

^ Well said Gronk.

Berating players does not work in 2019. It's not 1975 anymore.

Damn good post gronk!

Leaders position those around them to achieve their best and realize potential.

The "let's part ways with CSM" movement had me with the Book indictment. The recent play of the team and comments are just confirmation.

Epic post, gronk.

gronk4heisman wrote:Gabe York is the only one I can think of and I think we all agree he never reached his ceiling.

Dude, Gabe York hit his ceiling his senior year. That's all he was ever going to be.

ChooChooCat wrote:

gronk4heisman wrote:Gabe York is the only one I can think of and I think we all agree he never reached his ceiling.

Dude, Gabe York hit his ceiling his senior year. That's all he was ever going to be.

Gabe York was the Mustafa Shakur of the Sean Miller era. Someone you did not want with the ball at crunch time. More likely than not, he would dribble the ball off his foot with the game on the line.

For those continuing to defend Miller and argue for patience, I guess I'd just ask what this program's expectations are and whether the culture Miller has created within the program is conducive to greater success.

I don't hear anyone calling Miller a bad coach or saying that his record is embarrassing. It's more that after a decade we're now noticing patterns with this coach. Micromanaging players, questionable understanding of player psychology, slow starts, poor end-of-game strategy, questionable player rotations/starting lineups, general inflexibility with coaching philosophy/strategy (ie: DWWD), multiple tourney losses to teams with less talented players, and I won't even get into the Book stuff.

It's not unreasonable to raise the possibility of a coaching change after a decade. It's also not unreasonable to argue that Miller deserves to remain as coach, given his league titles, outstanding recruiting success and overall winning percentage. I just think that AZ hoops has national championship aspirations, and while many good coaches never reach that level, we're at a point now where we can ask whether Miller ought to be given several more years to get there or if it's better for an amicable parting of ways and a different coach given a chance. There are a lot of good coaches out there, and this is a very, very attractive job.