Bear Down Wildcats

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:43 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:37 am
Firing Miller would make me stop following Arizona basketball altogether. So I guess I'll never get to know whoever this guy is.

What's crazy is that I know people who feel the exact opposite: they won't continue following AZ hoops unless we fire Miller.

Yeah, but that's BS, or they weren't really in it to begin with. If you think he hasn't done well the last 3 years, we're primed next year.

That's the hilariously dumb part of the Lloyd idea for me. We have an HC with a career winning % of .730 who has a top 20 preseason ranking.

We're looking at firing him (and probably gutting the roster) for a guy who has a career win % of .000, in hopes that guy can build us a level of success. Maybe, if we give him a few years, he can get us to markers of success like a .730 career win % and a preseason top 20 roster.

To use an analogy Robbins would understand, it's like giving yourself a heart attack because you think your new heart surgeon is so great he can restore you to just as healthy as you were before you intentionally gave yourself a heart attack.

People on TOS think if we get Lloyd we'd get Chet H. No way in hell that is happening.

And look, I know I'm melting a little, but one last thing.

One of the many crazy parts, I'd bet you money if Robbins fires Miller now, part of it is that Miller is he has to do it before Miller returns a loaded roster, wins a lot next year and makes himself unfireable.

We're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:26 am

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:18 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:37 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:00 pm Is there anyone other than that one Twitter account suggesting Lloyd is actually an option?

He’s very much an option.

Although I don't love the way this entire fire/extension situation has gone down, I wouldn't mind that outcome...

I don't mean to flame, this is a serious question. Were you aware of him before he got rumored as an option here?

I put this out seriously on the whole to the board. I had no clue who he was, but I'm not the only person. Maybe I'm missing how well known he is/was.

No offense or anything taken. Yes, I was aware of him, ESPN wrote a long-form article about him a little over a year ago that was pretty illuminating and I've heard from Gonzaga fans in the past just how integral he is to their success. He is pretty clearly, in my opinion, the top assistant coach in college basketball.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:22 am People on TOS think if we get Lloyd we'd get Chet H. No way in hell that is happening.

In addition to the fact it isn't happening, it's hilarious people ripped on Miller for OAD's and want a guy who is a guaranteed OAD.

so as someone who hasnt been following this at all really, i just have to wonder aloud, this shit is a joke right?

I would much rather have Miller + our entire roster back than Lloyd + Holmgren and whatever other freshmen he brings.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 amWe're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Not that that’s unprecedented. But I’m struggling to remember when that’s ever worked out in the team’s favor. Maybe all the way back when the Bulls fired Doug Collins and replaced him with Phil Jackson?

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:22 am People on TOS think if we get Lloyd we'd get Chet H. No way in hell that is happening.

In addition to the fact it isn't happening, it's hilarious people ripped on Miller for OAD's and want a guy who is a guaranteed OAD.

I just got a free trial to see what Jason has been saying about this whole thing but I can't stop reading the moronic takes these folks have. Not a lot of intellectual conversation over there

PieceOfMeat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:32 am so as someone who hasnt been following this at all really, i just have to wonder aloud, this shit is a joke right?

Unfortunately it does seem so. Choo said a page or two ago that Lloyd is a legitimate possibility

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 amWe're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Not that that’s unprecedented. But I’m struggling to remember when that’s ever worked out in the team’s favor. Maybe all the way back when the Bulls fired Doug Collins and replaced him with Phil Jackson?

Actually, bringing up the Bulls makes me think of a comparison.

This feels like when Krause forced out MJ, Pippen, Rodman and Jackson because he was certain he was a genius and would rebuild a contender.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 amWe're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Not that that’s unprecedented. But I’m struggling to remember when that’s ever worked out in the team’s favor. Maybe all the way back when the Bulls fired Doug Collins and replaced him with Phil Jackson?

Actually, bringing up the Bulls makes me think of a comparison.

This feels like when Krause forced out MJ, Pippen, Rodman and Jackson because he was certain he was a genius and would rebuild a contender.

I just threw up in my mouth.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 amWe're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Not that that’s unprecedented. But I’m struggling to remember when that’s ever worked out in the team’s favor. Maybe all the way back when the Bulls fired Doug Collins and replaced him with Phil Jackson?

Actually, bringing up the Bulls makes me think of a comparison.

This feels like when Krause forced out MJ, Pippen, Rodman and Jackson because he was certain he was a genius and would rebuild a contender.

Jerry Krause and Rob Robbins... That's actually a really good comparison. Two jabronis who can't stay out of their own way. Don't know how to deviate from a plan. Once they have an idea, that's what they're going to do, and won't change based on any rhyme or reason.

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 amWe're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Not that that’s unprecedented. But I’m struggling to remember when that’s ever worked out in the team’s favor. Maybe all the way back when the Bulls fired Doug Collins and replaced him with Phil Jackson?

Maybe when the Cavs fired David Blatt and Tyronn Lue took over and led them to the '16 championship?

But I can't come up with a CBB example. I was thinking and UNC firing Doherty because they could get Roy Williams from KU is maybe an example of firing because THE MAN is out there for you.

You'd have to be room temperature IQ to think Tommy Lloyd and Roy Williams are comparable. You'd also have to be stupid to think Sean Miller and Matt Doherty are comparable.

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:29 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:26 am

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:18 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:37 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:00 pm Is there anyone other than that one Twitter account suggesting Lloyd is actually an option?

He’s very much an option.

Although I don't love the way this entire fire/extension situation has gone down, I wouldn't mind that outcome...

I don't mean to flame, this is a serious question. Were you aware of him before he got rumored as an option here?

I put this out seriously on the whole to the board. I had no clue who he was, but I'm not the only person. Maybe I'm missing how well known he is/was.

No offense or anything taken. Yes, I was aware of him, ESPN wrote a long-form article about him a little over a year ago that was pretty illuminating and I've heard from Gonzaga fans in the past just how integral he is to their success. He is pretty clearly, in my opinion, the top assistant coach in college basketball.

Fair enough. Like I said, no disrespect, I honestly was interested.

I think assistants are ok in some situations, like I get why UNC went with Hubert Davis. I fail to see the logic here at all.

It feels like we went from discussing good mid major coaches or even P5 guys to an assistant who's never had any connections with Arizona or proof he can recruit in connection with Arizona, etc.

Frankly, for most of Lloyd's tenure with Gonzaga, they weren't much noted for recruiting talent, more for developing it.

In Robbins self absorbed brain he is trying to make a Kirby Smart hire in the same fashion that Alabama hired Sark. The problem is that Gonzaga isn't Alabama Football and we don't have Texas type resources.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:04 am Anybody know when Robbin's contract is up? I'd love to voice my opinions on him to the ABOR and whoever else can make sure he doesn't get to stick around

For what it’s worth Robbins is hated on campus and it has nothing to do with sports.

He has put the University in so much unnecessary debt and he likes to surround himself with white men

What's Robbins' play here? Spend time convincing the Davis' that he has a better replacement? Can't see that playing well with the Davis' based on how messed up that would be to leave Miller twisting in the wind only to be canned way too late after the season. Unless something has changed, it appears that the Davis' have Miller's back.

The bigger issue is Robbins is so obtuse that he is completely disregarding the health of the program in the long term by recklessly injecting himself into every decision. Football is one thing but to set off this potential bomb with the basketball program is a death wish.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:01 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:04 am Anybody know when Robbin's contract is up? I'd love to voice my opinions on him to the ABOR and whoever else can make sure he doesn't get to stick around

For what it’s worth Robbins is hated on campus and it has nothing to do with sports.

He has put the University in so much unnecessary debt and he likes to surround himself with white men

As someone who is on campus 5 days a week, I am one in the thousands on campus that are not fans of bobby Robbins. I've heard from many students and staff that I've interacted with that dislike the president. Only thing I've heard anyone praise him for was the vaccine drive through. That's it. Unfortunately Robbins knows my name and always talks to me when I see him around campus, and the amount of things I would love to say when I see him are uncountable. Can't stand the man. Done a pretty bad job doing his job description, as well as Heeke's job description

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:01 am
For what it’s worth Robbins is hated on campus and it has nothing to do with sports.

I recall Longhorned and BJBJ stating the same thing, from first hand experience.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 am And look, I know I'm melting a little, but one last thing.

One of the many crazy parts, I'd bet you money if Robbins fires Miller now, part of it is that Miller is he has to do it before Miller returns a loaded roster, wins a lot next year and makes himself unfireable.

We're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Exactly. He just wants his fingerprint on everything to say “see what I did?” And will risk putting the program 4 steps down so it can come 2 steps up from there in about 4 years. But that’s still 2 steps down Bub.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 am

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:01 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:04 am Anybody know when Robbin's contract is up? I'd love to voice my opinions on him to the ABOR and whoever else can make sure he doesn't get to stick around

For what it’s worth Robbins is hated on campus and it has nothing to do with sports.

He has put the University in so much unnecessary debt and he likes to surround himself with white men

As someone who is on campus 5 days a week, I am one in the thousands on campus that are not fans of bobby Robbins. I've heard from many students and staff that I've interacted with that dislike the president. Only thing I've heard anyone praise him for was the vaccine drive through. That's it. Unfortunately Robbins knows my name and always talks to me when I see him around campus, and the amount of things I would love to say when I see him are uncountable. Can't stand the man. Done a pretty bad job doing his job description, as well as Heeke's job description

In person does it seem like his health is deteriorating as rapidly as it appears in TV interviews?

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:08 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 am And look, I know I'm melting a little, but one last thing.

One of the many crazy parts, I'd bet you money if Robbins fires Miller now, part of it is that Miller is he has to do it before Miller returns a loaded roster, wins a lot next year and makes himself unfireable.

We're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Exactly. He just wants his fingerprint on everything to say “see what I did?” And will risk putting the program 4 steps down so it can come 2 steps up from there in about 4 years. But that’s still 2 steps down Bub.

Pretty much. This seems like success isn't the goal, the goal is success directly attributable to Robbins.

Of course, Robbins also hired Kevin Sumlin. And it's not like he expended a ton of energy taking responsibility for that one.

He wants his fingerprints on it...unless it goes bad. In which case, we'll pay another buyout, hope a better candidate is available and enter Indiana Hoosier land.

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:09 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 am

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:01 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:04 am Anybody know when Robbin's contract is up? I'd love to voice my opinions on him to the ABOR and whoever else can make sure he doesn't get to stick around

For what it’s worth Robbins is hated on campus and it has nothing to do with sports.

He has put the University in so much unnecessary debt and he likes to surround himself with white men

As someone who is on campus 5 days a week, I am one in the thousands on campus that are not fans of bobby Robbins. I've heard from many students and staff that I've interacted with that dislike the president. Only thing I've heard anyone praise him for was the vaccine drive through. That's it. Unfortunately Robbins knows my name and always talks to me when I see him around campus, and the amount of things I would love to say when I see him are uncountable. Can't stand the man. Done a pretty bad job doing his job description, as well as Heeke's job description

In person does it seem like his health is deteriorating as rapidly as it appears in TV interviews?

He's definitely a bit more shaky nowadays. Still speaks the same as he has for the past couple years but he's a bit shaky and bit jumpy if that makes sense. Wouldn't be surprised if something was up with his health. Don't know him on that level, more of an acquaintance kind of deal. He stops at talks to quite a few people. If he knows who you are and what you do on campus, odds are he'll stop and talk for 5 or 10 minutes. Or at basketball games he'll say hi if we see each other. I wouldn't say I know him to the level where I could speculate his health but from my experience I he's definitely more shaky and maybe flustered is the way to put it. Hard to articulate it but something health related is probably there

We need Mathurin to tweet out that "he didn't come to Arizona to play Zone Defense" in order to get through too Robbins.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:13 am

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:08 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 am And look, I know I'm melting a little, but one last thing.

One of the many crazy parts, I'd bet you money if Robbins fires Miller now, part of it is that Miller is he has to do it before Miller returns a loaded roster, wins a lot next year and makes himself unfireable.

We're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Exactly. He just wants his fingerprint on everything to say “see what I did?” And will risk putting the program 4 steps down so it can come 2 steps up from there in about 4 years. But that’s still 2 steps down Bub.

Pretty much. This seems like success isn't the goal, the goal is success directly attributable to Robbins.

Of course, Robbins also hired Kevin Sumlin. And it's not like he expended a ton of energy taking responsibility for that one.

He wants his fingerprints on it...unless it goes bad. In which case, we'll pay another buyout, hope a better candidate is available and enter Indiana Hoosier land.

I think Scheer put it best on his podcast. It's an ego thing. He saw the Fisch hiring and saw how everyone originally hated him, but a lot have learned to love him before he's even coached a single game. Rob probably thinks the fans will disapprove of whoever he hires for basketball but they'll learn to love him, just based off of the football hiring

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 amWe're literally firing someone to prevent them from winning a lot of games for us.

Not that that’s unprecedented. But I’m struggling to remember when that’s ever worked out in the team’s favor. Maybe all the way back when the Bulls fired Doug Collins and replaced him with Phil Jackson?

Rick Pitino being fired for Chris Mack? Does that qualify?

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 am Rob probably thinks the fans will disapprove of whoever he hires for basketball but they'll learn to love him, just based off of the football hiring

I mean, he's not entirely wrong. We will all, eventually, give some benefit of the doubt to *anyone* given the opportunity to coach our basketball team, even if the last coach was treated badly. This does not, though, mean that our support extends to Robbins as well. A new coach is entirely blameless; the guy who blew up our program in order to hire him...is not.

Off topic but not fer nuthin': Anyone here have in-close history with cardiac surgeons? I've known two of them and both were god's gift to human existence. One of them I had to threaten with manual strangulation in front of support staff in order to get him to perform a life-saving procedure on my mother. The problem was the procedure was far too simple/standard for his majesty, and he wanted to run some alternate, flamboyant, over-licking fleaflicker aneurism repair riff replete with cameras and dancing girls in the OR. With these personality types risk be damned; it's about showboating at someone else's expense..

I’ve seen 7 early top 25s today including ESPN who had the original hit out on miller and none have us lower than 16th. Add in 9th best odds in Vegas to win it all and it’s just laughable at this point that we’re even having these conversations. I don’t care who Lloyd or anyone else can bring along I want Miller and this core back and see what we can do next year. It’s not that hard Bobby!

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 am
I think Scheer put it best on his podcast. It's an ego thing. He saw the Fisch hiring and saw how everyone originally hated him, but a lot have learned to love him before he's even coached a single game. Rob probably thinks the fans will disapprove of whoever he hires for basketball but they'll learn to love him, just based off of the football hiring

I don't hate Fisch, he is just cashing them checks. I hate Bob Rob because of the hiring process and that will continue even if Fisch makes a rose bowl. I also hate any sort of micro manager who doesn't allow people to do their jobs especially if he uses school funds to pay people to do nothing but be his yes men with a title.

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 am I’ve seen 7 early top 25s today including ESPN who had the original hit out on miller and none have us lower than 16th. Add in 9th best odds in Vegas to win it all and it’s just laughable at this point that we’re even having these conversations. I don’t care who Lloyd or anyone else can bring along I want Miller and this core back and see what we can do next year. It’s not that hard Bobby!

9th "best vegas odds" is very misleading when there are 26 teams ahead of us, but other than that I agree.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 am Rob probably thinks the fans will disapprove of whoever he hires for basketball but they'll learn to love him, just based off of the football hiring

I mean, he's not entirely wrong. We will all, eventually, give some benefit of the doubt to *anyone* given the opportunity to coach our basketball team, even if the last coach was treated badly. This does not, though, mean that our support extends to Robbins as well. A new coach is entirely blameless; the guy who blew up our program in order to hire him...is not.

If Mathurin, Akinjo, Tubellis, Terry, Kerr, Koloko, & Brown leave the program because Miller isn't there, I don't see anyone be treated very nicely by our fan base.

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 am I’ve seen 7 early top 25s today including ESPN who had the original hit out on miller and none have us lower than 16th. Add in 9th best odds in Vegas to win it all and it’s just laughable at this point that we’re even having these conversations. I don’t care who Lloyd or anyone else can bring along I want Miller and this core back and see what we can do next year. It’s not that hard Bobby!

But if we get rid of Miller and things go really well, in like 2-3 years, we could be a top 16 team!

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 am I’ve seen 7 early top 25s today including ESPN who had the original hit out on miller and none have us lower than 16th. Add in 9th best odds in Vegas to win it all and it’s just laughable at this point that we’re even having these conversations. I don’t care who Lloyd or anyone else can bring along I want Miller and this core back and see what we can do next year. It’s not that hard Bobby!

It just seems so simple. If Miller under performs next season then we will ALL agree that it is time to move on. Even if you extend him right now the buyout on firing him after next season would be low and we would be doing a coaching search in a post covid world.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 am Rob probably thinks the fans will disapprove of whoever he hires for basketball but they'll learn to love him, just based off of the football hiring

I mean, he's not entirely wrong. We will all, eventually, give some benefit of the doubt to *anyone* given the opportunity to coach our basketball team, even if the last coach was treated badly. This does not, though, mean that our support extends to Robbins as well. A new coach is entirely blameless; the guy who blew up our program in order to hire him...is not.

I don't see myself doing that.

In football, the outgoing guy was an alcoholic who had a winless season he capped by losing 157-1 to ASU. So, I disliked how the Fisch hiring went down, but in the end, it's gonna be hard to be worse than Sumlin.

In basketball, we would have made the tourney the last two years if not for the cancellation and ban. Miller has never been under .500 here, has 5 Pac titles, 3 Elite Eights and a bunch of W's.

In football, we had nothing to lose. In basketball, we have a decent amount to lose.

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:35 am

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 am Rob probably thinks the fans will disapprove of whoever he hires for basketball but they'll learn to love him, just based off of the football hiring

I mean, he's not entirely wrong. We will all, eventually, give some benefit of the doubt to *anyone* given the opportunity to coach our basketball team, even if the last coach was treated badly. This does not, though, mean that our support extends to Robbins as well. A new coach is entirely blameless; the guy who blew up our program in order to hire him...is not.

If Mathurin, Akinjo, Tubellis, Terry, Kerr, Koloko, & Brown leave the program because Miller isn't there, I don't see anyone be treated very nicely by our fan base.

I hear ya, but still, that's on Robbins, not the new coach.

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:37 am

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 am I’ve seen 7 early top 25s today including ESPN who had the original hit out on miller and none have us lower than 16th. Add in 9th best odds in Vegas to win it all and it’s just laughable at this point that we’re even having these conversations. I don’t care who Lloyd or anyone else can bring along I want Miller and this core back and see what we can do next year. It’s not that hard Bobby!

It just seems so simple. If Miller under performs next season then we will ALL agree that it is time to move on. Even if you extend him right now the buyout on firing him after next season would be low and we would be doing a coaching search in a post covid world.

I've said the same thing a ton. There's a simple, obvious, glaring solution here.

If Miller underperforms and gets fired, you don't think guys like Lloyd are still possibilities next year? What would we even lose with the token extension and a prove it year plan?

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:41 am

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:37 am

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 am I’ve seen 7 early top 25s today including ESPN who had the original hit out on miller and none have us lower than 16th. Add in 9th best odds in Vegas to win it all and it’s just laughable at this point that we’re even having these conversations. I don’t care who Lloyd or anyone else can bring along I want Miller and this core back and see what we can do next year. It’s not that hard Bobby!

It just seems so simple. If Miller under performs next season then we will ALL agree that it is time to move on. Even if you extend him right now the buyout on firing him after next season would be low and we would be doing a coaching search in a post covid world.

I've said the same thing a ton. There's a simple, obvious, glaring solution here.

If Miller underperforms and gets fired, you don't think guys like Lloyd are still possibilities next year? What would we even lose with the token extension and a prove it year plan?

Simple, you lose the chance to fire a guy you want gone because he is bigger at this school than you because he had a solid season. Adia better make sure her star doesn't shine to bright.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:43 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:37 am
Firing Miller would make me stop following Arizona basketball altogether. So I guess I'll never get to know whoever this guy is.

What's crazy is that I know people who feel the exact opposite: they won't continue following AZ hoops unless we fire Miller.

These types of fans were very vocal on radio, before the internet, after Lute lost in ‘92 & ‘93 in the first round. Yes, they wanted Lute gone. They thought he was arrogant. Didn’t like his stoicism. Etc...They grew louder when UCLA won it all in’95, even after the ‘94 FF.

And the sensible fans were frustrated but really knew they had a gem of a coach, that the tourney can be fickle and the grass isn’t always greener.

It’s a shame Lute isn’t still alive to speak his mind on this fiasco.

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:11 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:43 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:37 am
Firing Miller would make me stop following Arizona basketball altogether. So I guess I'll never get to know whoever this guy is.

What's crazy is that I know people who feel the exact opposite: they won't continue following AZ hoops unless we fire Miller.

These types of fans were very vocal on radio, before the internet, after Lute lost in ‘92 & ‘93 in the first round. Yes, they wanted Lute gone. They thought he was arrogant. Didn’t like his stoicism. Etc...They grew louder when UCLA won it all in’95, even after the ‘94 FF.

And the sensible fans were frustrated but really knew they had a gem of a coach, that the tourney can be fickle and the grass isn’t always greener.

It’s a shame Lute isn’t still alive to speak his mind on this fiasco.

I appreciate this historical perspective, zg. For real.

I think firing Miller now will set the program back in ways we haven't seen before.

I also think there's going to be a contract extension announced within the next couple weeks, and we can finally talk about something else.

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:11 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:43 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:37 am
Firing Miller would make me stop following Arizona basketball altogether. So I guess I'll never get to know whoever this guy is.

What's crazy is that I know people who feel the exact opposite: they won't continue following AZ hoops unless we fire Miller.

These types of fans were very vocal on radio, before the internet, after Lute lost in ‘92 & ‘93 in the first round. Yes, they wanted Lute gone. They thought he was arrogant. Didn’t like his stoicism. Etc...They grew louder when UCLA won it all in’95, even after the ‘94 FF.

And the sensible fans were frustrated but really knew they had a gem of a coach, that the tourney can be fickle and the grass isn’t always greener.

It’s a shame Lute isn’t still alive to speak his mind on this fiasco.

So that's one of the things I feel is underrated in firing Miller. Coaches are a close fraternity and they know when someone's getting shafted.

So we plan to give Miller the shaft, then hope the new coaching candidates don't notice we sort of hosed the last guy?

Edit: Oh and also, a new guy has to feel like he either makes the Final Four or is on the hot seat, right, at least based on Miller getting canned when not making the FF is basically his only blemish.

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 am When has a P5 school been successful hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience to be their coach? Asking for a friend. I remember a lot that haven't but cant think of one that has.
Mike Davis
Mike Hopkins
Bill Gutheridge
Chris Collins
Steve Lavin

There are certainly programs that have hired extremely successful assistant coaches. Kansas hired Roy Williams who was an assistant with no head coaching experience. Mark Few was hired as an assistant although he was really a next in line type guy. Beard was an assistant and I would tell you his HC experience is very short for Texas to be all crazy about him. Flavor of the month and almost exactly a Shaka clone as far as experience. Guys having two years of success is not proof of being a great coach. See the record of Scott Drew. Scott Drew's record would have gotten him fired at any school where basketball was a priority. He has now got the best players in the country. Holding them together was a great accomplishment in today's portal world.

Just letting things go this long is stupid. We all agree, that if the NCAA/IARP hammer comes, it will take a few years to rebuild. And if this happens, parting with Miller then would be appropriate. But why self-implode before we get the IARP response, especially with a team that is listed in just about every too-early Top-25 for next year? It makes no sense, unless as you say, Dr. Robbins wants to stroke his God complex ego.

We should give Miller a 3-year contract extension with an IARP clause, that if punishment includes missing another post-season or Miller receives a show-cause, that Miller can be fired with cause. Miller built the current team, it has a ton of potential, and it would be a shame not to let Miller see what how far he can go with the group. Fire Miller now, and we'll likely see an exodus of players, and will be lucky to be .500 next year. And no guarantee that the next guy can rebuild. Lloyd may be one of the top assistants in the country, and he'll get a shot to run his own program, but how is reloading Gonzaga prepared him for rebuilding Arizona?

Last, as for Fisch winning the press conference and a few fans since he was hired, that's all well and good. But go 2-10 with blow out losses this year, and how far will gimmicks like Bruschi vs. Gronk in the Spring Game carry over to fan support?

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:38 pm

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 am When has a P5 school been successful hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience to be their coach? Asking for a friend. I remember a lot that haven't but cant think of one that has.
Mike Davis
Mike Hopkins
Bill Gutheridge
Chris Collins
Steve Lavin

There are certainly programs that have hired extremely successful assistant coaches. Kansas hired Roy Williams who was an assistant with no head coaching experience. Mark Few was hired as an assistant although he was really a next in line type guy. Beard was an assistant and I would tell you his HC experience is very short for Texas to be all crazy about him. Flavor of the month and almost exactly a Shaka clone as far as experience. Guys having two years of success is not proof of being a great coach. See the record of Scott Drew. Scott Drew's record would have gotten him fired at any school where basketball was a priority. He has now got the best players in the country. Holding them together was a great accomplishment in today's portal world.

Roy Willams was 33 years ago, Mark Few was not at a power 5 school, you have the chance to get your feet wet at a lower tier school and Beard was not an assistant to P5 coach. Tony Bennett is the only assistant to P5 success story I was able to find doing deep research.

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:34 pm

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:38 pm

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 am When has a P5 school been successful hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience to be their coach? Asking for a friend. I remember a lot that haven't but cant think of one that has.
Mike Davis
Mike Hopkins
Bill Gutheridge
Chris Collins
Steve Lavin

There are certainly programs that have hired extremely successful assistant coaches. Kansas hired Roy Williams who was an assistant with no head coaching experience. Mark Few was hired as an assistant although he was really a next in line type guy. Beard was an assistant and I would tell you his HC experience is very short for Texas to be all crazy about him. Flavor of the month and almost exactly a Shaka clone as far as experience. Guys having two years of success is not proof of being a great coach. See the record of Scott Drew. Scott Drew's record would have gotten him fired at any school where basketball was a priority. He has now got the best players in the country. Holding them together was a great accomplishment in today's portal world.

Roy Willams was 33 years ago, Mark Few was not at a power 5 school, you have the chance to get your feet wet at a lower tier school and Beard was not an assistant to P5 coach. Tony Bennett is the only assistant to P5 success story I was able to find doing deep research.

Few was next in line after Monson left for Minnesota. Beard took a job at a P5 school, but on the college pecking order, TTech was below several mid-majors like Gonzaga and Butler. TTech had a NCAA Tournament gap between 2007 and 2016. TTech hired big names, but were mired in mediocrity for years.

Roy Williams is really the only assistant to top Power 5 Head Guy success story out there. Most others have to cut their teeth at a low-major, mid-major, or a P5 also ran, like Bennett, who coached at Washington State before landing the Virginia gig. And you can argue that WSU is the third best basketball program in the state.

Miller signs a top transfer today, gets fired tomorrow?

Sounds about right

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 pm Miller signs a top transfer today, gets fired tomorrow?

Sounds about right

Top transfer? Huh?

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 pm

Beard took a job at a P5 school, but on the college pecking order, TTech was below several mid-majors like Gonzaga and Butler. TTech had a NCAA Tournament gap between 2007 and 2016. TTech hired big names, but were mired in mediocrity for years.

Additionally, Beard was not an assistant before TTech, he coached a little rock and then some DII or DII schools as the head coach before taking that job.