Bear Down Wildcats

Nice try

Chicat wrote:Thank you Sean Miller and staff...

thank you for posting that

Puerco wrote:RG, who are you arguing with? No one here has a different opinion.

Eh, there are too many "elite mid-major" and "Mark Few" referencing posts for me to really say we're all on the same page here.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Puerco wrote:RG, who are you arguing with? No one here has a different opinion.

Eh, there are too many "elite mid-major" and "Mark Few" referencing posts for me to really say we're all on the same page here.

Kindly locate and explain how Puerco or I ever indicated in any way, shape, or form, that Miller is doing a poor job or that we forgot where the program was. Because that's kind of how the collective (not targeting this at you directly, Spaceman) response is reading.

The Mark Few numbers I posted were an attempt to understand and illustrate the comparison that Puerco made. It was this thing called furthering a discussion. He made a fair assessment of Miller's resume. He offered reasons to support his claim. I disagree that it's an elite midmajor resume, but I'm reasonable adult capable of entertaining someone's perspective before questioning the core of their dedication or their memory.

Puerco has always been a solid poster. Always. So when he's getting drilled before having a chance to explain himself, I elaborated on his thoughts.

I posted those initial numbers because it was tournament-related, Arizona-related, Miller-related content. I thought fans might enjoy it since you can't get it all together anywhere else unless you dig it up yourself. I thought it had value because it wasn't just a pontificated expression my opinion or basketball knowledge. It wasn't me pandering this audience with all I know about the game, feeling the need to educate you on stuff you already know. Enough of that on sites like this already. It was actual data and fact! But instead of actually reading the data and contextual commentary, which is pro-Miller but also fair and doesn't avoid the negatives, people immediately start bitching about one comment without trying to figure out what someone meant -- and ends with allusions to some apparent dislike we have for Miller, what he's done, or our act of misremembering the past.

FTR, I know exactly where we have come from, exactly how good we have been under Miller, and exactly how good of shape we are in going forward.

Evcat, I love your posts. You're insightful, timely, and communicate concisely. Along with Gumby and SHB, you're one of the greatest reads on this or any Cats site in terms of language. Your assessments are usually very spot-on, as well. And, you are usually fair, too. I don't think you're being fair on this one, though. Puerco makes a claim that can be disputed, but he is offering logical reasons to support what he considers an elite midmajor coach's resume. There is nothing wrong with holding that point of view. Instead of questioning his memory, let's question the actual points he is making. I believe he would be open to changing his mind if approached civilly and with logic. Nothing in his past indicates otherwise.

I disagree with his claim, starting with that 15-1 record vs non-top 10 teams. I also posted the margin of victory in those top 10 losses to indicate just how close the majority of those losses were to those quality opponents. Since losing in the first round to Gonzaga in his first year in the tournament, 5 of the 7 teams Miller lost to went on to the Final Four or further. Three of them went to the title game, and one of them won the whole thing. Like RGD says, it was bad timing. Miller has almost always run into the teams that are good and hot, and those losses are nothing to be ashamed of. On the surface, maybe that resume does look like an elite midmajor's (like that of Mark Few), but when you look at the details, you see that the only real resemblance is in the raw appearance of that 1-8 record vs top 10 teams. Dig deeper, and the resemblance fades. Not sure why we can't just say that to Puerco without blowing up about it. Like, is there some award for winning the message board? We're all Cats fans here. I hope we all treat people in our daily lives with a little more freaking respect.

Further, Puerco CLEARLY states that he believes Miller has lofty goals of winning the title himself, that he has no doubt that Miller will accomplish that, and that he by no means believes Arizona can or should get a better coach. He is not ungrateful. He is simply interpreting the resume to-date. How have we gotten to a point where you can't even let a guy have a differing opinion without jumping down his back? Let's have a conversation and save the quick darts for another time, or at least a more justifiable situation/conversation.

As for Cats101, one can disagree with parts of his claim. I certainly think 2011 was an overachievment. But he defined what expectations meant as he used the term, which is talent and pre-season expectations. Other than 2011, he's pretty much right. I would expect a top 10-15 team to make the Sweet 16 or beyond, and that's exactly what '13, '14, and '15 did.

Kind of pisses me off that I have to spend part of my morning defending myself and others who have really done nothing but express and support (perhaps incorrect but) reasonable enough interpretations of numbers and situations. But I'm done. Go Cats. Enjoy winning the message board. I'll refrain from trying to add content to the community in the future.

I'm not slamming anyone. I just do not see Miller associated with either midmajor or Few in any way. A "few" of the distinctions I see between Miller and Few.

-Few took over a program that was humming along. Miller took over a program falling apart.
-Few has never had 3 EE's in 5 years.
-Few has fairly consistently underperformed vs his tourney seed. The biggest Miller knock is no FF yet.
-Miller's recruiting is not comparable with Few's in any way, shape, form.

I get that comparisons can be made, but I side with RG that it is as easy to see us as a major power that just hasn't made a FF yet. For instance, we have outperformed UNC during Miller's tenure here, and no one would say Roy is an elite midmajor.

Again, not ripping anyone, just saying that I do think there is disagreement about how to view SM.

I don't think Puerco was commenting on Miller's ability as a coach. He says that without a doubt he believes Miller will win a title some day. I think his comments were strictly about Miller's resume looking like that of a midmajor coach and nothing more, so I don't think the state of the program before Miller arrived or recruiting ability are very relevant to this conversation. If I felt that Puerco were using the data to say that Miller is actually a midmajor level coach, I would think state of inherited program, details of the losses, and other tertiary examples would be more applicable to the conversation. In fact, they would be. This is where I keep getting a little frustrated. Poster X says one thing, Poster Y interprets it for another, comes back with a response that doesn't really apply, and then we're off to a shouting match. I know how smart everyone here is, so I don't want to question reading comprehension skills, but I think when you spend all year talking about the Cats, rooting for the Cats, etc., sometimes it can be easy to jump the gun on someone's commentary without fully understanding the point they are trying to make. It's hard to communicate completely on a message board. I know for myself, I post almost exclusively from my phone, and can hardly even see what I'm writing, so of course I'm going to miss details, and I would hope if there are holes in my arguments, people point them out civilly so I can have an opportunity to elaborate before having my dedication or memory called into question. And if I'm wrong after having that conversation, I will acknowledge, grow, and move on considering myself smarter and better for having that conversation. If Puerco were some dipshit idiot like Salty (no offense, Salty), I wouldn't react this way. But I have always thought he adds thoughtful commentary, and am more than willing to hear the man out.

thenewazcats wrote:I don't think Puerco was commenting on Miller's ability as a coach. He says that without a doubt he believes Miller will win a title some day. I think his comments were strictly about Miller's resume looking like that of a midmajor coach and nothing more, so I don't think the state of the program before Miller arrived or recruiting ability are very relevant to this conversation. If I felt that Puerco were using the data to say that Miller is actually a midmajor level coach, I would think state of inherited program, details of the losses, and other tertiary examples would be more applicable to the conversation. In fact, they would be. This is where I keep getting a little frustrated. Poster X says one thing, Poster Y interprets it for another, comes back with a response that doesn't really apply, and then we're off to a shouting match. I know how smart everyone here is, so I don't want to question reading comprehension skills, but I think when you spend all year talking about the Cats, rooting for the Cats, etc., sometimes it can be easy to jump the gun on someone's commentary without fully understanding the point they are trying to make. It's hard to communicate completely on a message board. I know for myself, I post almost exclusively from my phone, and can hardly even see what I'm writing, so of course I'm going to miss details, and I would hope if there are holes in my arguments, people point them out civilly so I can have an opportunity to elaborate before having my dedication or memory called into question. And if I'm wrong after having that conversation, I will acknowledge, grow, and move on considering myself smarter and better for having that conversation. If Puerco were some dipshit idiot like Salty (no offense, Salty), I wouldn't react this way. But I have always thought he adds thoughtful commentary, and am more than willing to hear the man out.

I'm not just ripping him. That's why I closed with UNC's record over the same period as Miller's been here. There are midmajors who you can compare him to, but equally as many bluebloods we have exceeded lately. In addition to UNC, UCLA and Indiana (off the top of my head only) have had less success than we have under Miller.

I don't have any issues with anyone's opinion. I just think Miller is judged harshly by our fanbase sometimes because of expectations that were set in large part by him being so quick to resurrect our program. If you had told me in 2009 that we'd be in the Elite Eight in 2011, 2014, and 2015, I would have laughed. We were truly a crater and on the edge of total disaster. So this magical Final Four level is, to me, a coming attraction that I am amazed we had a shot at so quickly in the rebuild. And I truly believe 2014 was taken from us by Bash's injury.

His numbers may be middle level (though I'd say he is only comparable to a couple of middle level programs that have excelled far beyond expectations), but the level of difficulty has to be considered. He created a monster with 2011. I think he has been an elite coach in recruiting, and a great game coach who suffered a fatal blow in 2014 by way of starter injury. I think Cats fans compressed the timeline to reach the Final Four because of 2011. That's just my opinion.

EVCat wrote:I don't have any issues with anyone's opinion. I just think Miller is judged harshly by our fanbase sometimes because of expectations that were set in large part by him being so quick to resurrect our program. If you had told me in 2009 that we'd be in the Elite Eight in 2011, 2014, and 2015, I would have laughed. We were truly a crater and on the edge of total disaster. So this magical Final Four level is, to me, a coming attraction that I am amazed we had a shot at so quickly in the rebuild. And I truly believe 2014 was taken from us by Bash's injury.

His numbers may be middle level (though I'd say he is only comparable to a couple of middle level programs that have excelled far beyond expectations), but the level of difficulty has to be considered. He created a monster with 2011. I think he has been an elite coach in recruiting, and a great game coach who suffered a fatal blow in 2014 by way of starter injury. I think Cats fans compressed the timeline to reach the Final Four because of 2011. That's just my opinion.

If you told me in 2009 that we'd be in the EE in 2011, 14 and 15 and some of our fans would be disappointed by that, my brain would have exploded. I would have put higher odds that we'd spent at least 50 million trying to clone a backup Sean Miller instead of being disappointed at no FF.

Wtf!

There were fire Sean Miller posts all over the place last night Tucson tries too hard to be knee jerk like Philly fans.

UAEebs86 wrote:

Too bad it isn't possible to inherit a final four. On the upside, Miller's never been accused of rape.

Those were probably the same @$$holes, or their relations, who brought "Fire Lute" signs to the Tucson subregionals after the Santa Clara loss.

Those people need to crawl back under their rocks and stay there.

Local cbs affiliate is reporting Miller is meeting w/ Pitt now.http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/03/ ... an-miller/" target="_blank

I know we all say that bridge has been burned but ...... Are we sure here. I get nervous whenever this comes up and say what u want, it is his alma mater.

Per Scheer on Twitter he's in Tucson.

CBS in Pittsburgh is just making shit up

But for the guys in the know ....... Do we have anything to worry about ???? I'm sure the "better than 50%" is a number the Pitt affiliate pulled out his ass but is there any cause for concern at all? We all know he is prob fed up w this conference but I feel like he is really building a legacy here as well. And entrenches himself more in the community and state the longer he is here.

Hate the off season just for these kind of reasons. I think we can trust 97 when he says zero chance and I would agree that he should just sit back and wait for North Carolina to open

Ok , I'll quit panicking now.

Sean shut that shit down with the quickness.

He cleared it up in Twitter.

catgrad97 wrote:Those were probably the same @$$holes, or their relations, who brought "Fire Lute" signs to the Tucson subregionals after the Santa Clara loss.

Those people need to crawl back under their rocks and stay there.

Lot's of fans were calling for Lute's head on a platter in '97 after the Cats lost their last two games of the regular season in the Bay Area...

... can't seem to find a single one, today - or even a month later....

However, a clue might be those trashing on this year's team and players!!

Ric Flair strut

I knew he lost weight but damn when he isnt wearing a suit, he looks crazy fit. Im sure hes loving the Tucson sunshine and a great campus/laughing at the losers at Pitt.

Chicat wrote:

And now the media is backtracking after the Miller tweet and Goodman picture.

Glad Miller nipped this in the bud so quickly.

Outside of Duke/UNC/Kentucky offering him their jobs in the next year or two, he's at Arizona for the duration. Even then he may still stay here.

Chicat wrote:

Chicat wrote:

That crap made me piss my pants right now!

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Richie Walsh's mentions are the funniest things I've read in a long time

Doubling down on being proven completely wrong usually works.

This is how I picture Rich Walsh right now.

What Miller isn't taking the Pitt job?

Thank the god of messy hamburgers for that piece of luck!

I am sure Miller was in town. Sean's dad that is.

Archie declined the job today too.

Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that @RichieWalsh doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows EXACTLY what he’s doing.

ASUHATER! wrote:Archie declined the job today too.

Did he really lol

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... ng-vacancy" target="_blank

Quick interview with Goodman knocking the Pitt reporter.

For the record, Goodman isn't much better than that reporter.

Goodman is a chode.

Chicat wrote:Goodman is a chode.

MyTwoCents let him know it too: https://twitter.com/thespinzone" target="_blank