UCLA Basketball in trouble!

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:07 am

MrBug708 wrote:So prince Ali has been cleared but has chosen not to play this year and instead sit out. Weird situation considering if he leaves, he needs to sit out another year. Who needs depth?

Can't be concerned about not getting shots. Seems like there are plenty to go around.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:53 pm

First road sweep in 4 years

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:55 pm

This is where BeachBruin tries to convince everyone that Utah game was never in doubt.

Shine on you crazy diamond. The floor is yours...

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:28 pm

Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:45 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.

Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:55 pm

Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.
Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.

Let's see. If rooting against ucla makes me a ucla fan, I guess rooting against AZ would have the same effect? Or would rooting for ucla make me a ucla hater? How do we straighten this out, Chi Phi?

Oh whatever. Here's hoping AZ shocks the nation next Saturday. Bear down and beat the Bruins! And the Trojans on Thursday!

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:02 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.
Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.
Let's see. If rooting against ucla makes me a ucla fan, I guess rooting against AZ would have the same effect? Or would rooting for ucla make me a ucla hater? How do we straighten this out, Chi Phi?

Oh whatever. Here's hoping AZ shocks the nation next Saturday. Bear down and beat the Bruins! And the Trojans on Thursday!

It will be a surprise, maybe even a bit more than a mild upset, if we win next week... but you will be the only one I am aware of who is shocked.

Are you a UCLA fan? Maybe not, but you have some serious UCLA-envy going on, and you always have.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:15 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.

Us?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:15 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:Are you a UCLA fan? Maybe not, but you have some serious UCLA-envy going on, and you always have.

What's there to envy? Seriously? We are the better program since the 80s, which is to say my lifetime. I don't envy a program whose greatest glories are only available in black and white.

So, no, Harvey. I'm not, nor have ever been, nor will ever be, a UCLA fan. It's proven to be incredibly difficult to get this across.

As always, go Cats!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:17 pm

MrMeow wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.

Us?

Yeah, you know...Arizona. We played Utah recently. Game was at McKale Center, which is located in Tucson, Arizona.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:17 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:So, no, Harvey. I'm not, nor have ever been, nor will ever be, a UCLA fan. It's proven to be incredibly difficult to get this across.

Jeepers, I cannot imagine why....

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:59 pm

Chicat wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:So prince Ali has been cleared but has chosen not to play this year and instead sit out. Weird situation considering if he leaves, he needs to sit out another year. Who needs depth?
Can't be concerned about not getting shots. Seems like there are plenty to go around.

@bug - interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the ali situation. you think it's likely that he transfers out? even with little alf gone next year?

as for this season, i get that ali may want to rs and maximize eligibility, but this year's ucla squad has a legit chance at a possible natty run in march. tough to imagine any player not wanting to be a part of that.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:14 pm

I really don't know what he is thinking. I agree with your logic and if he transfers, he sits again. And if Holiday goes, we have no guard depth, worse than this year. He could just be sick of the situation and want gone either way, but a mid year transfer would have made sense then.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:31 pm

UCLA has 40 with like 8 minutes to go and Bryce hasn't even taken a shot.

ASU is bad

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:56 pm

Should be a good game today. I think you'll see Arizona get sucked into playing UCLA's style. A win by Arizona puts them in the drivers seat for the PAC-12

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:06 pm

MrBug708 wrote:Should be a good game today. I think you'll see Arizona get sucked into playing UCLA's style. A win by Arizona puts them in the drivers seat for the PAC-12

Not if the #1 defense in Pac12 shows up and it becomes more of a half court game or if UCLA plays zone like everyone else has.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:03 pm

EastCoastCat wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:Should be a good game today. I think you'll see Arizona get sucked into playing UCLA's style. A win by Arizona puts them in the drivers seat for the PAC-12
Not if the #1 defense in Pac12 shows up and it becomes more of a half court game or if UCLA plays zone like everyone else has.

UCLA's zone is much better than their man to man.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Uggh. Hurts to lose, but you guys had an excellent game plan. Other factors were involved, but in the end, Alford sticking with man for so long, our inability to rebound, to defend the post, attacking IHam and Bryce defensively, and choosing to trail Bryce and Iham so tough, was just too much for us today. Ball was excellent, but I couldn't even pick who our second best player was this game, it was pretty bad for us otherwise. IIw ould have said if we score more than 80, we win easily. Oops. Can't do anything but tip your hat and just hope Alford works on rebounding a bit more. This puts UCLA behind the 8-ball in the PAC-12.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Ucla sure as shit was in trouble today.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:07 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.
Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.
Let's see. If rooting against ucla makes me a ucla fan, I guess rooting against AZ would have the same effect? Or would rooting for ucla make me a ucla hater? How do we straighten this out, Chi Phi?

Oh whatever. Here's hoping AZ shocks the nation next Saturday. Bear down and beat the Bruins! And the Trojans on Thursday!

Hopefully they are getting ready to deploy the National Guard to quell the rioting that will be going on all across America as a result of this unthinkable upset.

Thankfully the media can transition from coverage of the Inauguration to discussing this shocker. Is is bigger than USA Hockey in 1980?

I would guess that should qualify as a quality win.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:08 pm

Harvey Specter wrote: Is is bigger than USA Hockey in 1980?

Do you believe in miracles?!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:08 pm

Enjoy your exile Beachcat.

I called it 1 week ago on your ass that we were winning this game.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.
Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.
Let's see. If rooting against ucla makes me a ucla fan, I guess rooting against AZ would have the same effect? Or would rooting for ucla make me a ucla hater? How do we straighten this out, Chi Phi?

Oh whatever. Here's hoping AZ shocks the nation next Saturday. Bear down and beat the Bruins! And the Trojans on Thursday!
Hopefully they are getting ready to deploy the National Guard to quell the rioting that will be going on all across America as a result of this unthinkable upset.

Thankfully the media can transition from coverage of the Inauguration to discussing this shocker. Is is bigger than USA Hockey in 1980?

I would guess that should qualify as a quality win.

To be fair, this was a pretty historical win as it's the first time Arizona has beaten a Top 10 UCLA team in Pauley. They were 0-16 before this.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Gotta play defense at some point and get stops, don't you "Coach" Alford?

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:10 pm

MrBug708 wrote:Uggh. Hurts to lose, but you guys had an excellent game plan. Other factors were involved, but in the end, Alford sticking with man for so long, our inability to rebound, to defend the post, attacking IHam and Bryce defensively, and choosing to trail Bryce and Iham so tough, was just too much for us today. Ball was excellent, but I couldn't even pick who our second best player was this game, it was pretty bad for us otherwise. IIw ould have said if we score more than 80, we win easily. Oops. Can't do anything but tip your hat and just hope Alford works on rebounding a bit more. This puts UCLA behind the 8-ball in the PAC-12.

Hamilton was pretty good in the 2nd half. Pretty much unstoppable for a good 7-10 minutes or more.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:10 pm

MrBug708 wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.
Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.
Let's see. If rooting against ucla makes me a ucla fan, I guess rooting against AZ would have the same effect? Or would rooting for ucla make me a ucla hater? How do we straighten this out, Chi Phi?

Oh whatever. Here's hoping AZ shocks the nation next Saturday. Bear down and beat the Bruins! And the Trojans on Thursday!
Hopefully they are getting ready to deploy the National Guard to quell the rioting that will be going on all across America as a result of this unthinkable upset.

Thankfully the media can transition from coverage of the Inauguration to discussing this shocker. Is is bigger than USA Hockey in 1980?

I would guess that should qualify as a quality win.
To be fair, this was a pretty historical win as it's the first time Arizona has beaten a Top 10 UCLA team in Pauley. They were 0-16 before this.

No shit? We'll take it.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:11 pm

Chicat wrote:Gotta play defense at some point and get stops, don't you "Coach" Alford?

Yep. Ucla is a pretty darn good team...just are dragged down by their coach.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:15 pm

84Cat wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:Uggh. Hurts to lose, but you guys had an excellent game plan. Other factors were involved, but in the end, Alford sticking with man for so long, our inability to rebound, to defend the post, attacking IHam and Bryce defensively, and choosing to trail Bryce and Iham so tough, was just too much for us today. Ball was excellent, but I couldn't even pick who our second best player was this game, it was pretty bad for us otherwise. IIw ould have said if we score more than 80, we win easily. Oops. Can't do anything but tip your hat and just hope Alford works on rebounding a bit more. This puts UCLA behind the 8-ball in the PAC-12.
Hamilton was pretty good in the 2nd half. Pretty much unstoppable for a good 7-10 minutes or more.

We had closed the gap to two, then a terrible decision for GG to shoot a 3, Arizona came back hit a three, we had another bad shot by Bryce, another basket, then two turnovers by Holiday, and the lead was 8 again and the momentum was gone. But I was speaking more defensively, they were attacking both him and Bryce

Every time Ball would drive to the basket, Arizona didn't leave the perimeter. Ball would either score or pass it out, but nobody was open when they got the ball. Perfect game plan executed perfectly

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:37 pm

MrBug708 wrote:Uggh. Hurts to lose, but you guys had an excellent game plan. Other factors were involved, but in the end, Alford sticking with man for so long, our inability to rebound, to defend the post, attacking IHam and Bryce defensively, and choosing to trail Bryce and Iham so tough, was just too much for us today. Ball was excellent, but I couldn't even pick who our second best player was this game, it was pretty bad for us otherwise. IIw ould have said if we score more than 80, we win easily. Oops. Can't do anything but tip your hat and just hope Alford works on rebounding a bit more. This puts UCLA behind the 8-ball in the PAC-12.

Thanks bug, you ARE always a classy poster and I get a little unhinged in the in-game threads. its not personal.

Both are legit FF teams and today, we got the best of you. We were due.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:39 pm

MrBug708 wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Utah is tough, Chi. They played us close.
Yeah but your boys came away with the big win tonight BeachBruin. You must be proud.
Let's see. If rooting against ucla makes me a ucla fan, I guess rooting against AZ would have the same effect? Or would rooting for ucla make me a ucla hater? How do we straighten this out, Chi Phi?

Oh whatever. Here's hoping AZ shocks the nation next Saturday. Bear down and beat the Bruins! And the Trojans on Thursday!
Hopefully they are getting ready to deploy the National Guard to quell the rioting that will be going on all across America as a result of this unthinkable upset.

Thankfully the media can transition from coverage of the Inauguration to discussing this shocker. Is is bigger than USA Hockey in 1980?

I would guess that should qualify as a quality win.
To be fair, this was a pretty historical win as it's the first time Arizona has beaten a Top 10 UCLA team in Pauley. They were 0-16 before this.

A great win and certainly an upset... but the way he posted it was an unequivocal impossibility because we were so inferior. (He did not seem to think we had a chance at McKale - suggesting we would go winless vs UCLA and UO).

PS - Thanks for the added color - I did not know that.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:41 pm

Great game and great analysis Bug. You might have lost the game but you won the war with Beachbitch LOL

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:53 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:Uggh. Hurts to lose, but you guys had an excellent game plan. Other factors were involved, but in the end, Alford sticking with man for so long, our inability to rebound, to defend the post, attacking IHam and Bryce defensively, and choosing to trail Bryce and Iham so tough, was just too much for us today. Ball was excellent, but I couldn't even pick who our second best player was this game, it was pretty bad for us otherwise. IIw ould have said if we score more than 80, we win easily. Oops. Can't do anything but tip your hat and just hope Alford works on rebounding a bit more. This puts UCLA behind the 8-ball in the PAC-12.
Thanks bug, you ARE always a classy poster and I get a little unhinged in the in-game threads. its not personal.

Both are legit FF teams and today, we got the best of you. We were due.

Harvey Specter wrote: A great win and certainly an upset... but the way he posted it was an unequivocal impossibility because we were so inferior. (He did not seem to think we had a chance at McKale - suggesting we would go winless vs UCLA and UO).

PS - Thanks for the added color - I did not know that.

azcat49 wrote:Great game and great analysis Bug. You might have lost the game but you won the war with Beachbitch LOL

Someone just recently PM'ed me, apologizing for RC97, but he's truly never bothered me. When you make a name as the "respectful poster" on other boards, it cracks you me seeing posters try to rile people up. On. A. Message. Board. The new trollish thing to do is to take other takes and echo what they say. When pressed further, they always just disappear or hope someone else bails them out. I just laugh. I have a kid and all of this is just the small stuff. I don't need to be bothered by millennial always talking about how old they are.

I'm also not dumb enough to know the tone would be different had UCLA won

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:06 pm

I'm glad for you that RiversideBruin has never bothered you, Mr. Bug, but I'm still happy for you that he's gone forever.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:35 am

What I still can't understand is why UCLA's defense is so bad. The rim protection is pretty good, but that's about individual athleticism and timing. Bryce Alford is one of the worst defenders in Division 1, but I can't understand why the team defense generally can't do a little more in man-to-man. Is it primarily a coaching problem? And does the showcasing of Bryce send the wrong message to the team as a whole? UCLA's defense can't hold a candle to Cal or USC, let alone elite teams like Oregon. Is it possible to turn around something so bad a month into conference play?

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:45 am

Longhorned wrote:What I still can't understand is why UCLA's defense is so bad. The rim protection is pretty good, but that's about individual athleticism and timing. Bryce Alford is one of the worst defenders in Division 1, but I can't understand why the team defense generally can't do a little more in man-to-man. Is it primarily a coaching problem? And does the showcasing of Bryce send the wrong message to the team as a whole? UCLA's defense can't hold a candle to Cal or USC, let alone elite teams like Oregon. Is it possible to turn around something so bad a month into conference play?

So I listened to Alford's postgame comments. It's not like they don't work on their D in fact he said basically that defensive breakdowns is what they work on a majority of the time in practice. It sounded like there is an overall lack of defensive trust collectively - he gave an example of the many isolations that occurred during the game that they never want to have happen.

At the end of the day it's on Alford to get the team to play collective defense and that's the difference between our coach and the one in Westwood.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:53 am

If I looked at the defensive effort of the coach's son and how much playing time he gets, I would start to think that playing defense is not a requirement for getting time on the court.

As far as team defense, you are playing a team that has shown it struggles against basic zone defenses and yet you don't break out the 2-3 until there's 10 minutes left in the game even though you have a short bench? And then you abandon it three possessions later? Terrible coaching. They should have switched between man and zone all game long and tried to confuse Arizona as much as possible. Or maybe break out a zone the Cats hadn't seen. Maybe a box-&-1 on Lauri.

The notion that Alford watched film and prepared his team for this game is hard to fathom for me. Felt like he told them, "Lonzo, you do your thing. Bryce, keep shooting. If Leaf gets open try to get it to him. The rest of you clear out and don't get in their way..."

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:18 am

Good points Chi.

But I actually thought Alford wanted to set the tempo of the game by running man-to-man and get the game fast paced which is what they prefer. He just underestimated our offensive capabilities and overestimated his team's ability to get stops.

He finally went to zone but as you said by that point it was too late and then he had no choice when they were chasing possessions at the end of the game.

waysouthcat · Post by **waysouthcat** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:28 am

It seems like this thread needs a memorial service for BC97.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:41 am

EastCoastCat wrote:Good points Chi.

But I actually thought Alford wanted to set the tempo of the game by running man-to-man and get the game fast paced which is what they prefer. He just underestimated our offensive capabilities and overestimated his team's ability to get stops.

He finally went to zone but as you said by that point it was too late and then he had no choice when they were chasing possessions at the end of the game.

I think you're right about him wanting to set tempo, but I haven't seen any evidence he gives a crap about getting stops. His attitude seems to be that if they get a 3 and the other team gets a 2, they win.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:46 am

Bryce should have transferred for himself, his father, and UCLA. As UCLA fans have been saying since before the media started celebrated this year's team, all three are in trouble and this team isn't as good as its offense.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:08 am

I think UCLA's philosophy is to get up more shots than the other team and they will win.

They thought they would have much less turnovers at a quicker tempo and they did not

They thought they could at minimum neutralize the rebounding totals and we crushed them on the glass.

This should be a wake up call for them and it will be interesting how they react to it.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:03 pm

Chicat wrote:If I looked at the defensive effort of the coach's son and how much playing time he gets, I would start to think that playing defense is not a requirement for getting time on the court.

As far as team defense, you are playing a team that has shown it struggles against basic zone defenses and yet you don't break out the 2-3 until there's 10 minutes left in the game even though you have a short bench? And then you abandon it three possessions later? Terrible coaching. They should have switched between man and zone all game long and tried to confuse Arizona as much as possible. Or maybe break out a zone the Cats hadn't seen. Maybe a box-&-1 on Lauri.

The notion that Alford watched film and prepared his team for this game is hard to fathom for me. Felt like he told them, "Lonzo, you do your thing. Bryce, keep shooting. If Leaf gets open try to get it to him. The rest of you clear out and don't get in their way..."

I agree about playing zone more often. Alford could have also been worried about our offensive rebounding and, thus, hesitated in breaking out the zone.

I also think the tone was set from our opening possession when we ran "thumbs up" and Allen gets an easy bucket. I knew right then either UCLA was not properly prepared and/or really don't want to play defense.

ANGCatFan · Post by **ANGCatFan** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Good breakdown by the ucla SB Nation site on the problems in Westwood.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:19 pm

So here's what I'm curious about. We provided a pretty good blueprint on beating UCLA. Let Ball get his but eliminate the easy shots for everyone else. Selectively crash the glass. Take easy baskets but slow it down otherwise.

Will other teams beat UCLA now? I feel like you still need the amount of talent that we have on our roster, and that UCLA will be able to outrun teams without that level of talent. What do you guys think?

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:29 pm

I think Oregon might be there only other team that could get them besides us at least in conference. You can bet come tourney time the tape of this game will be an important blueprint

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:31 pm

Other teams will beat them, but not sure if it will be the same way. I imagine they'll lose on the road once because their shooting will go cold.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:15 pm

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:30 pm

Merkin wrote:

That's a pretty good comparison I think. I'm kind of surprised they've made so many tournaments, but the thing that comes to mind is that the biggest level of success was all in a 3 year span, while ours is spread out through the years. The thing that jumps out is the number of All Americans, wow.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:33 pm

And since Lute came we're 38-34 against them.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:57 pm

prh wrote:So here's what I'm curious about. We provided a pretty good blueprint on beating UCLA. Let Ball get his but eliminate the easy shots for everyone else. Selectively crash the glass. Take easy baskets but slow it down otherwise.

Will other teams beat UCLA now? I feel like you still need the amount of talent that we have on our roster, and that UCLA will be able to outrun teams without that level of talent. What do you guys think?

Utah had the blueprint, they just didn't execute well

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