Sean Miller

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:58 pm

Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.

I think that's the fermented yak's milk talking.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:15 pm

michcat wrote:My only problem with coaching in this game is that they never really tried doubling the post and it killed them all game.

Double him and get burned with the 3, or an extra pass and a layup. The team defense and rotations arent to snub. Dusan and Chance need to learn how to defend him, we may see them again in March; give him his 18 and focus on defending everyone else and let the fat fuck wear himself out and make your run when hes on the bench or sucking wind. Millers hands are tied there. Sometimes you let one man get his and focus on the other four

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:17 pm

He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:24 pm

Longhorned wrote:He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.

Ray Smith is what happened. Kid is an incredible player, but losing him for both last year and this year is devastating. Think how close Miller's team was prior to a year ago. We never recovered from Ray's injury last year, and without Trier I don't know how we can recover this year. Miller might have recruited the spot as much as any other, but guys knew they would be competing against Smith. I feel 1000 times worse for Smith than for the team and us fans, but his injury truly impacted this team more than we know ... both last year and this year.

Go Cats!!

michcat · Post by **michcat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:27 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
michcat wrote:My only problem with coaching in this game is that they never really tried doubling the post and it killed them all game.
Double him and get burned with the 3, or an extra pass and a layup. The team defense and rotations arent to snub. Dusan and Chance need to learn how to defend him, we may see them again in March; give him his 18 and focus on defending everyone else and let the fat fuck wear himself out and make your run when hes on the bench or sucking wind. Millers hands are tied there. Sometimes you let one man get his and focus on the other four

I understand that that was the risk but to not even try it a few times to pressure the fat fck to pass out of there was a mistake. He was just getting too easy shots down there.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:27 pm

Longhorned wrote:He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.

Wow. I hope Sean is our coach for the next 20 years. So I guess we see things a bit differently

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:28 pm

I like you a lot Longhorned. Ive had a few beers so im gonna sit this one out

I will say this tho, We got lucky with Lute and we got lucky with Miller. Eventually you get a Tubby Smith and we arent no Kentucky

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:42 pm

We played without 3 of our projecfed starters entering the year, including our leading returning scorer and pg. I do not understand anything but happiness with Miller. He's not perfect, no one is, but this lineup has been decimated.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:45 pm

cats101 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
How many 5 stars do you need to make a damn final four

2014 was the year. It was a down year for college basketball when all of the bluebloods were reloading. It's pretty obvious we would have went to a FF and probably won it all if Ashley doesn't go down.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:47 pm

dcZONAfan wrote:
Longhorned wrote:He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.
Wow. I hope Sean is our coach for the next 20 years. So I guess we see things a bit differently

It could happen but it would be very rare. Coaches these days don't stay in a single job for an entire career. Regardless, Miller has raised Arizona to an elite program. As much as Lute did for Arizona, it was Miller who has cemented it as a destination job in an elite program, and not just a program defined by a single legendary coach. I'm pretty secure on that.

I feel like Arizona is unlikely to make it to a Final Four with Miller. Honestly, two years ago I also felt like Wright would never take Villanova to where it needed to be, so there's that. But this is just the point I've reached with my feelings as a very long-term fan: kind of done and ready for what's next when the time comes. Even it's just pure awful luck, something just seems off to me with the point guard recruiting, the refusal to vary up the defense, and the ridiculous amount of injuries. I wonder if I'm really alone on this sentiment.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:48 pm

loomer wrote:
cats101 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
How many 5 stars do you need to make a damn final four
2014 was the year. It was a down year for college basketball when all of the bluebloods were reloading. It's pretty obvious we would have went to a FF and probably won it all if Ashley doesn't go down.

I truly believe it was 50/50 for an undefeated season. I'd say 80% we would have won it all.

Then Ashley went down.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:48 pm

Longhorned wrote:
It could happen but it would be very rare. Coaches these days don't stay in a single job for an entire career. Regardless, Miller has raised Arizona to an elite program. As much as Lute did for Arizona, it was Miller who has cemented it as a destination job in an elite program, and not just a program defined by a single legendary coach. I'm pretty secure on that.

I feel like Arizona is unlikely to make it to a Final Four with Miller. Honestly, two years ago I also felt like Wright would never take Villanova to where it needed to be, so there's that. But this is just the point I've reached with my feelings as a very long-term fan: kind of done and ready for what's next when the time comes. Even it's just pure awful luck, something just seems off to me with the point guard recruiting, the refusal to vary up the defense, and the ridiculous amount of injuries.

This is where the palm to the face emoji would be, well, perfect.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:05 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
loomer wrote:
cats101 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
How many 5 stars do you need to make a damn final four
2014 was the year. It was a down year for college basketball when all of the bluebloods were reloading. It's pretty obvious we would have went to a FF and probably won it all if Ashley doesn't go down.
I truly believe it was 50/50 for an undefeated season. I'd say 80% we would have won it all.

Then Ashley went down.

... and nearly 100% we were going to the Final Four.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:07 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
loomer wrote:
cats101 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
How many 5 stars do you need to make a damn final four
2014 was the year. It was a down year for college basketball when all of the bluebloods were reloading. It's pretty obvious we would have went to a FF and probably won it all if Ashley doesn't go down.
I truly believe it was 50/50 for an undefeated season. I'd say 80% we would have won it all.

Then Ashley went down.
... and nearly 100% we were going to the Final Four.

ugh, what a depressing thread in these posts.

And I agree completely wrt the 2014 season, except for the point of wishing Miller would move on.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:25 pm

cats101 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
How many 5 stars do you need to make a damn final four

It's probably less about how many 5 stars and more about getting the right ones.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:26 pm

I do sometimes think that the 5 stars we get are different that ones going to UNC, DUKE, Kentucky, etc...

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:32 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:I do sometimes think that the 5 stars we get are different that ones going to UNC, DUKE, Kentucky, etc...

There is difference between recruits ranked in the top ten, sometimes in the top five, sometimes one or two or three in their class as compared to the 15-25 range in the class.

We say both of these groups are "5 stars", but they are not the same.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:39 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:I do sometimes think that the 5 stars we get are different that ones going to UNC, DUKE, Kentucky, etc...

For sure, though Markannen and Ayton are as elite as they come, as was Gordon, and Stanley Johnson was no slouch. In a different era, Lute was a master evaluator of talent and upside in the kind of players that weren't bound for UCLA, UNC, Duke, etc. But Lute's strength doesn't readily translate to this era of one-and-done talent. Miller has had some misses on evaluation, but for the most part has assembled teams that could beat anyone in a one-and-out tourney game. The question remains whether he can get enough low-risk, high talent and coach it to a Final Four.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:55 pm

Longhorned wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:I do sometimes think that the 5 stars we get are different that ones going to UNC, DUKE, Kentucky, etc...
For sure, though Markannen and Ayton are as elite as they come, as was Gordon, and Stanley Johnson was no slouch. In a different era, Lute was a master evaluator of talent and upside in the kind of players that weren't bound for UCLA, UNC, Duke, etc. But Lute's strength doesn't readily translate to this era of one-and-done talent. Miller has had some misses on evaluation, but for the most part has assembled teams that could beat anyone in a one-and-out tourney game. The question remains whether he can get enough low-risk, high talent and coach it to a Final Four.

Agree wholeheartedly with this assessment. He didn't it with TJ and Dwill, but that's really the only two I can think of. Love Miller, but he has shown to have a certain level of RR stubbornness when it come to refusal to play or practice against non-packline types of D.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:58 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:Sean Miller needs to find a way to have two actual point guards on every team from this point forward.

Hardest position to recruit today, apparently. No doubt CSM is looking for the next TJ McConnell as I type this.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:21 pm

I think people underestimate how hard recruiting specific positions are if you are not Duke/Kansas or Kentucky.

Arizona is right there...just a string of bad luck...I fully expected us to get completely blown away today without Trier or PJC.

Millers not going anywhere, nor should he...in todays college hoops world a coach like Miller who can weather adversity, keep his head and still manage to out recruit 90% of the country all the while dealing with student athletes who see college as nothing more than a temporary obstacle on the road to their dreams is worth every penny we pay him.

Sure Arizona is a brand, Lute did a remarkable job and then several unremarkable guys trashed the entire program for a few years, but Arizona has never had to hang their head in shame or tell anyone they are sorry, we have had no scandals (that were not immediately nipped in the bud) to speak of...

Compare that to Dana Altman who walks in Nike money every year and has the pick of the crop because of shoe deals, NOT because he's a great coach who cares about the players, or Alford who has NBA players pulling recruits to LA in a gym that is rarely 20% of capacity (with the exception of when they play US)...

We're in the fucking desert...Tucson barely has any major market anything going on (unless you count the "gem show" or spring training for some BB club)...think it through...kid see's Rolls Royce in his future...you can't even drive one here...compare that to Rodeo Drive or Rat face Krysznksirisieee or Dick Vitales diaper dandy baby room at Kentucky...it's only been REALLY since Miller that we see ESPN wanting to show our games (and a big Fuck you in your incompetent pee hole to Larry Scott is appropriate here)...so kids want to be seen, play on national tv have the sports writers praising them...you gonna go to the desert for that?

Fuck no...

YET...Miller manages to keep the holster loaded with top 10 recruiting classes...and you guys wanna shit on him because of a string of bad luck?

How many coaches make a FF every year? Hmmmmm?

How long did it take them?

And while we're at it, LUCK figures pretty high in the friggin equation...

You can't seriously fault a guy because he's not "lucky"????

Whatev...

I was glad we didn't lose today by 20...

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:55 pm

We are damned fortunate to have CSM just like we were with Lute. This year has been a clusterfu#k of bad luck with Ferguson, Ray Smith, Alonzo and now PJC. Still, CSM has pulled in a Top '17 Recruiting Class (yet again) and has done soooo many positive things with the program.

This year isn't done yet and once we get Zo and PJC back, we should make some noise BUT it won't be the year it could have / should have with Ray and Ferguson on board.

God forbid we lose CSM, we will take a big step back IMHO. I love CSM and couldn't be a bigger fan. Is he perfect? No. Is he an absolute stud coach? YES!

Just remember, if the refs hadn't screwed us on the Nick Johnson charge call vs. Wiscy, we'd already have that Final Four monkey off our back with CSM. It's only a matter of time until we explode in the NCAA Tourney.

I firmly believe that in Miller, we have one of the best coaches out there and a future HOF'er.

BTFD on these difficult times and this season will be about enjoying unexpected success vs. our normal lofty expectations.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:05 pm

Merkin wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Sean Miller needs to find a way to have two actual point guards on every team from this point forward.

Hardest position to recruit today, apparently. No doubt CSM is looking for the next TJ McConnell as I type this.

Unless you're UCLA where Daddy Ball and the Compton Magic sure love handing over high level point guards there way, as of late at least.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:10 pm

Longhorned wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
Longhorned wrote:He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.
Wow. I hope Sean is our coach for the next 20 years. So I guess we see things a bit differently
It could happen but it would be very rare. Coaches these days don't stay in a single job for an entire career. Regardless, Miller has raised Arizona to an elite program. As much as Lute did for Arizona, it was Miller who has cemented it as a destination job in an elite program, and not just a program defined by a single legendary coach. I'm pretty secure on that.

I feel like Arizona is unlikely to make it to a Final Four with Miller. Honestly, two years ago I also felt like Wright would never take Villanova to where it needed to be, so there's that. But this is just the point I've reached with my feelings as a very long-term fan: kind of done and ready for what's next when the time comes. Even it's just pure awful luck, something just seems off to me with the point guard recruiting, the refusal to vary up the defense, and the ridiculous amount of injuries. I wonder if I'm really alone on this sentiment.

Honestly...you're not, although I'm not 100% there yet, I think he deserves more time. This bad luck of ours has got to come to an end soon.

I'm struggling with the exact time I'd be ok with what you're proposing occurring though. I don't think after two seasons of disappointment and the cupboard possibly being a bit more bare next year (if say he bounced after this year) I would feel comfortable with it. You'd rather see your coach leave with the cupboards more full and after a very successful season. That could be after next year.

As far as your Wright comparison, he recruits a totally different player than Miller does, one where they become upperclassmen and are developed. Miller recruits a few of those, but predominantly the most talented guys on the team are not at Arizona for long. It's much easier for a guy who recruits long term players he can develop to eventually succeed than for a guy who recruits a shit ton of one and dones and two and dones. Unless of course he's recruiting like Duke or Kentucky, which obviously we're not.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:34 pm

I only meant to say that I was wrong about Wright, so I certainly can't trust my feelings about Miller's future success. I also thought Coach K was washed up two years before he won another title, so that's more points against me. And now I'm surprised to find myself tiring of the Miller script and ready for whatever is next for Arizona, and suspecting that I'm not alone on this at this point in time.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:54 pm

This fan base never ceases to amaze me. Whether it be the late November/ early December hot takes, or the inability to remember history.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:11 am

Wow. Just the other day, posters in this thread were swearing we're a tourney team and that all is fine and dandy. Now Miller needs to go.

I was at the game today. Just an ugly game. Ristic looked completely helpless vs. their big man, and we barely cracked 50% from the foul line. Our guys also looked frustrated in the 2nd half. On multiple occasions, Kadeem was waiting for Rawle and/or Kobi to cut or run a play, and they were lost, or unsure what play was called. There were some communication issues among Miller and the players. We were slow on defensive rotations, which is why they hit so many threes. And speaking of threes, I don't think we made a single three today. Didn't Lauri hit 5 in the last game?

Anyway, we had no answer for their big man. None. He got whatever he wanted whenever he wanted it. It was bad. The Zags fans behind us were laughing about it. Gonzaga looked good, not great. They have some nice depth.

If we have to go the next 2 months without Trier or PJC, more losses are coming. I like Rawle and Kobi, and KaDeem plays harder than anyone. We have some nice pieces. But we don't have any killers. Lauri is very passive. You could say he's unselfish, but he's sorta unselfish to a fault. We need him to take lots of shots.

It's a down year, guys. Even good programs have them. Even if Trier and PJC make it back, who knows what our record will look like? How badly are we going to lose to UCLA and OR? Will we have anything close to a respectable tourney resume? We did beat MSU, so there's that. Here's hoping we can avoid going into full tailspin, get to the tourney, and lock up 2 more elite players for our '17 class.

For the record, I hope CSM stays put.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:20 am

get back Trier and PJC and I'm sure Sean Elite-Eight Miller can get us to another Elite Eight.

He does need to learn how to not be a one-trick-pony coach though, imo, which is something I've said since he got here. But, that's not gonna change so we are who we always will be. Maybe that next D-Will type player will pop up in the next couple years and we'll avoid injuries and that will be the magic year.

As for him leaving or staying, I do find it amusing when people take a person's apathy over the leaving-staying situation as so insulting. Miller may not be a Rich Rod, but his eyes certainly have strayed in the past and will undoubtedly do so again in the not-too-distant future as a couple of prime jobs open up. Or maybe he'll have the type of Moment Lute had where he said nope, that's it, I'm an AZ guy forever more.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:28 am

I'm with you PoM. A little bit of fan weariness being expressed, and the overreactions begin. Of course people are weary, and yes in December even, when the prospects of a deep run in the tourney diminish with every high ankle sprain and blown ACL. It's been a damned long time for us, and this recent six year run of bad luck is depressing.

For me the weariness comes from the thought that if we can't reach the top with Miller, whom I firmly believe is one of the top five coaches in the country, how will we ever get there?

Just one year where that critical injury doesn't happen, that key player from the year before decides to not leave early, the opponent in the Elite Eight doesn't go all Utah-Wiskey on us... That's what this program needs to get over the hill.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:05 am

Longhorned wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
Longhorned wrote:He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.
Wow. I hope Sean is our coach for the next 20 years. So I guess we see things a bit differently
It could happen but it would be very rare. Coaches these days don't stay in a single job for an entire career. Regardless, Miller has raised Arizona to an elite program. As much as Lute did for Arizona, it was Miller who has cemented it as a destination job in an elite program, and not just a program defined by a single legendary coach. I'm pretty secure on that.

I feel like Arizona is unlikely to make it to a Final Four with Miller. Honestly, two years ago I also felt like Wright would never take Villanova to where it needed to be, so there's that. But this is just the point I've reached with my feelings as a very long-term fan: kind of done and ready for what's next when the time comes. Even it's just pure awful luck, something just seems off to me with the point guard recruiting, the refusal to vary up the defense, and the ridiculous amount of injuries. I wonder if I'm really alone on this sentiment.

You are not alone in your sentiment, Longhorned. It certainly doesn't help that this season has gone south before it really began.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:15 am

Beachcat97 wrote:It's a down year, guys. Even good programs have them. Even if Trier and PJC make it back, who knows what our record will look like? How badly are we going to lose to UCLA and OR? Will we have anything close to a respectable tourney resume? We did beat MSU, so there's that. Here's hoping we can avoid going into full tailspin, get to the tourney, and lock up 2 more elite players for our '17 class. For the record, I hope CSM stays put.

Wasn't last year a down year? I'm not quite at the point where I would want Miller to move on, but I think after two disappointing seasons in a row, it is critical for him to turn things around during the 2017 season.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:10 am

This is a disappointing season already? 8 games in? Jesus fucking christ some of you are dipshits

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:50 am

The Cats played hard with 7 guys. Short on depth, but big hearts. There was no quitting. Zags got out in front in the first 4 mins, and Arizona never got back to control the game. They frustrated LM's game, broke his timing, he was never in sync.

Yet look at the nos. Shot 39%, only 13% 3's, 65% FT's, Ristic had 4 fouls..
It was a bad game against a good team, but the score doesn't reflect a blowout. With Allonzo in the game Lauri's game improves. Add PJC and our depth is very good. Yeah, tough loss, but nothing Cats can't fix. Bad luck,
but not on a death knell.

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball ... os-angeles" target="_blank

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:30 am

I get the feeling that when we look back at this season many people will call it one of Sean's greatest coaching jobs.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:36 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Really reaching the point where I'm ready for Miller to move on.
One thing I can say is that the program certainly seems snakebit under his watch. Ashley in 2014, a Wisconsin who couldn't miss if it tried in 2015, Ray smith in 2016, Trier, Smith, Parker, and every thing else this year.

Don't over react, I want Miller to stay unless all of these snakebites can be pinned on him.
However, Rounds is good at getting body fat down to 5%, but could he use a refresher course in preventing injuries?

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:15 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Sean Miller needs to find a way to have two actual point guards on every team from this point forward.

Is Barcello even a PG?

Puerco wrote:I'm with you PoM. A little bit of fan weariness being expressed, and the overreactions begin. Of course people are weary, and yes in December even, when the prospects of a deep run in the tourney diminish with every high ankle sprain and blown ACL. It's been a damned long time for us, and this recent six year run of bad luck is depressing.

For me the weariness comes from the thought that if we can't reach the top with Miller, whom I firmly believe is one of the top five coaches in the country, how will we ever get there?

Just one year where that critical injury doesn't happen, that key player from the year before decides to not leave early, the opponent in the Elite Eight doesn't go all Utah-Wiskey on us... That's what this program needs to get over the hill.

The 2015 Wisky game wasn't a total aberration. Count in me the group that thinks that the 2015 team was better than the 2014 team because our offense was superior and we had more balance. Unfortunately for us, the 2015 season was a stacked one at the top with Duke, Wisky, and Kentucky. And that Wisky game was emblematic of one of that team's biggest weaknesses, 3FG% defense. It ended up being Miller's 2nd worst 3FG% defense in his tenure at Arizona, just behind the 2013 team with Lyons, Solo, and company. Wisky possessed the most efficient offense in the KenPom era and got hot playing a mediocre 3FG% defense and against a scheme that can be vulnerable against the 3 when rotations aren't crisp. However, even with these deficiencies we walk to the FF in Villanova's bracket.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:53 am

dcZONAfan wrote:This is a disappointing season already? 8 games in? Jesus fucking christ some of you are dipshits

This

Also, this on-demand generation is fantastic. Once Miller gets your beloved final 4 appearance, you'll question if he ever will get a natty. Then he will get one, and you'll wonder if he ever can do it again.

People want to gripe, great. But perhaps look around a bit and realize when the last PAC team won a natty, or when one made a final 4 and let that percolate in the brain.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:02 am

I'm not that disappointed considering were literally missing half of our team that we thought we'd have a few months ago. This team is a battered shell of what it was supposed to be.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:12 am

CalStateTempe wrote:I do sometimes think that the 5 stars we get are different that ones going to UNC, DUKE, Kentucky, etc...

Much different, not all 5*'s are created equal. Kentucky gets kids that should be in the NBA right now but they have to do a year because of the system. Only ones we've gotten that fit that profile were AG, Stanley, and now Lauri. Ayton shows up and he's number 4

UK gets like 2 of those per class

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:16 am

And this season isn't a lost cause at all. Once we get Zo and PJC back I think this team has the goods. Anybody really think we're not undefeated right now if we have Zo and PJC for both games?

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:25 am

Olsondogg wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:This is a disappointing season already? 8 games in? Jesus fucking christ some of you are dipshits
This

Also, this on-demand generation is fantastic. Once Miller gets your beloved final 4 appearance, you'll question if he ever will get a natty. Then he will get one, and you'll wonder if he ever can do it again.

People want to gripe, great. But perhaps look around a bit and realize when the last PAC team won a natty, or when one made a final 4 and let that percolate in the brain.

Olsondogg being Olsondogg. Again.

How DARE you people have a discussion! How DARE you be dissatisfied! We DO NOT ALLOW basketball discussion on this website unless it's mindless blathering about just how great everything is going to be in March.

Don't you people realize that it's been a long time since the PAC won a natty, so therefore we're not allowed to want one.

You're hilarious. But not in a haha-funny kind of way.

Schnebly · Post by **Schnebly** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:37 pm

I think Longhorned is simply trying to channel Meat Loaf here and (obviously) tell us that maybe, just maybe there aint no Coupe De Ville hiding at the bottom of our CrackerJax box.

Schnebly · Post by **Schnebly** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:39 pm

In other news, it's a equally amazing and terrifying that a human being can look ^this^ unhealthy and continue to live for decades.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:41 pm

Main Event wrote:And this season isn't a lost cause at all. Once we get Zo and PJC back I think this team has the goods. Anybody really think we're not undefeated right now if we have Zo and PJC for both games?

This should really be where the current discussion ends. With a full roster, we're fine.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:22 pm

Puerco wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:This is a disappointing season already? 8 games in? Jesus fucking christ some of you are dipshits
This

Also, this on-demand generation is fantastic. Once Miller gets your beloved final 4 appearance, you'll question if he ever will get a natty. Then he will get one, and you'll wonder if he ever can do it again.

People want to gripe, great. But perhaps look around a bit and realize when the last PAC team won a natty, or when one made a final 4 and let that percolate in the brain.
Olsondogg being Olsondogg. Again.

How DARE you people have a discussion! How DARE you be dissatisfied! We DO NOT ALLOW basketball discussion on this website unless it's mindless blathering about just how great everything is going to be in March.

Don't you people realize that it's been a long time since the PAC won a natty, so therefore we're not allowed to want one.

You're hilarious. But not in a haha-funny kind of way.

I didn't say any of that you deranged twat. Keep the hard-on for me and my posts though, it's flattering.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:23 pm

Chicat wrote:I get the feeling that when we look back at this season many people will call it one of Sean's greatest coaching jobs.

Totally. And when we look back at 2016, many people will call it one of Jill Stein's greatest campaigns.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:25 pm

Oh look...beach is trying to sound current, intelligent and ironically hilarious all at the same time.

Hank of sb · Post by **Hank of sb** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:28 pm

Longhorned wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
Longhorned wrote:He's a really good coach. Wouldn't trade him for anyone over these years (not even Calipari, and I do like Calipari, who may well have brought us some Final Fours). But as with a marriage, it keeps itching you until the realization can hit you at an unexpected moment, and an unfair and downright irrational moment, like an early December game that does absolutely nothing to make or break a season.

Being down so many players, I would have been shocked if Arizona won this game with such a thin roster. Though full of hope, I was imagining how we'd lose: trying to run Karnowski off the court but wearing our players down in the process, getting in foul trouble, etc. But somehow, after all this time, I'm always surprised by yet another helpless looking slow start. That was just what Arizona needed to put the nail in the coffin at the outset: trying to launch a comeback with a thin roster. It isn't just that -- it's the feeling as a fan. The feeling that it's just at that point where I'm ready for a new script. It's been a while coming.

I'm not saying he should be fired. That would be ridiculous. I'm just saying I'm ready for whatever comes next if he's like most college coaches nowadays and moves on. The only college coaches I've ever rooted for are Lute Olson and Sean Miller, and this is the first time I've started to feel fatigue for a coach. One of many things I'm grateful for is the way he's positioned the program for the future.
Wow. I hope Sean is our coach for the next 20 years. So I guess we see things a bit differently
It could happen but it would be very rare. Coaches these days don't stay in a single job for an entire career. Regardless, Miller has raised Arizona to an elite program. As much as Lute did for Arizona, it was Miller who has cemented it as a destination job in an elite program, and not just a program defined by a single legendary coach. I'm pretty secure on that.

I feel like Arizona is unlikely to make it to a Final Four with Miller. Honestly, two years ago I also felt like Wright would never take Villanova to where it needed to be, so there's that. But this is just the point I've reached with my feelings as a very long-term fan: kind of done and ready for what's next when the time comes. Even it's just pure awful luck, something just seems off to me with the point guard recruiting, the refusal to vary up the defense, and the ridiculous amount of injuries. I wonder if I'm really alone on this sentiment.

So Longhorned takes it on, then backs it up! I have to like it. I applaud Longhorned who, for me, has never been a lightening rod before. Not that I can remember. But so what. The substance in Longhorned's two posts (seen above) rings true to me.

I am always ready for a change. Sean Miller, a person I, also, have rooted for reminds me of a strict dad who coddles his daughters but figuratively strangles his only son by being much to tough. Sean is stubborn and with the criticism that is sure to come, I see Sean digging in, being yet more defensive minded, more herky jerky in the games, more of the same to come.

It's a mystery. After all, he was a point guard.

But I doubt he will ever change.

I don't see any offense in the guy.

I see continued frustration on building a full (and real) team. Too much drama. Ayton and his 'unqualified status' is next on board.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:37 pm

Imagine Gonzaga without best Pg (Wlliams-Goss), 6-8 forward (Williams) and best scoring guard (Matthews) and staying within 7 of a fully manned Arizona team. They accounted for 30 points yesterday.

Starters would be: Perkins, Melson, Tillie, Collins, Karnowski.

Hank of sb · Post by **Hank of sb** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:03 pm

gumby wrote:Imagine Gonzaga without best Pg (Wlliams-Goss), 6-8 forward (Williams) and best scoring guard (Matthews) and staying within 7 of a fully manned Arizona team. They accounted for 30 points yesterday.

Starters would be: Perkins, Melson, Tillie, Collins, Karnowski.

I'd never say your view (or point) is wrong.

But Gonzaga had it's bad luck last year. When I watched that game yesterday I said to myself: Wow, what a fabulously coached team. (Until yesterday, I had no idea Mark Few had it that much together as a coach.) Gonzaga reminded me of Aaron Gordon's team at Arizona when Miller was younger and his troops were fully bought in to a system which matched, crucially, the personnel on hand.

To Longhorned's point (or maybe its mine), I don't think Miller can adjust his personnel to what he actually has on the bench. I believe it's possible if Miller found he had an offensive juggernaut sitting on his bench, but a team, also, lacking in defensive acumen, he'd wouldn't know what to do.

Indeed, I think SM would continue pounding the square peg into the round hole.

Even harder.

Login • Register