Bear Down Wildcats

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Listen, I really like most of the posters here but why do you guys argue with a tool like SquatAndPee? It's like stepping in crap....you can mush the hell out of it but you're still left with a dirty shoe....put that tool on ignore instead .

Anyways, back to Miller-humping.....I loved / love Lute and there's no comparison to that legend BUT with the internet and getting to hear CSM speak....I keep getting more and more enthralled with the Dude.....I get why big time recruits who are chased by everyone commit to him, 'A Player's Program' as he IS 'A Player's Coach'.

Love, love, love Miller....pisses me off when these dbags from other programs dump on him unfairly.....I know most of them are just envious.

Thank God for Miller! BTFD.

I live in Indiana, right on the border or Louisville, KY. All of the programs around here (UK, Louisville, IU, etc.) all wish they either had him now, or when their coach leaves. Never heard a bad word about the guy out here. I LOVE CSM, and would be devistated if he ever left. In my eyes, there isn't a better coach in the country right now. BEAR DOWN FOREVER, COACH!!!!

IZF, I was the same when I was living in the research triangle, Raleigh Durham chapel hill.

Harvey Specter wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:We don't actually have to guess if Lute would have done something so trifling because in 29 seasons he never did
(He once stuck it to some ASU hecklers for invoking Bobbi's name - justified and not remotely even close to the same.)

Strange that none of the Miller-humpers here all over my shit can point to *any* posts they made mentioning Alfords timeout, complaining about it, feeling disrespected about it. Chicat, LH, eebs, where are your posts complaining about Alfords "victory lap" timeout that so wronged the sanctity of Senior Day at McKale that you vowed eternal revenge on UCLA?

oh that's right there are none, so wierd!

im done with this topic until you can provide me posts/stories etc from any source about Alfords supposed "victory lap" timeout

You obviously don't have a fucking clue what Lute did in his 29 seasons here. He was not the way many would have you believe.

How about when he refused to shake K's hand after the 2001 Natty game?
Or when he responded to a (portly) UO heckler as he walked off Mac Court with a recommendation of a gym he should join?
Or when we were playing Ole Miss in the NCAA tourney and someone suggested that Rob Evans was giving the Rebs tips on how to play the Cats and he said "What is he going to tell them. Did you see our games vs ASU this year?" (We waxed them both times)
Or when he barbed a few Duke players (and he and K got into it as a result) during a regular season game?
How about when he kept calling Bruce Pascoe "Colombo" during a presser?

Despite what people want to remember about Lute, he could be petty as hell... And most of the time - I LOVED IT! He was a competitor whose fire got the best of him sometimes. Bobbi kept him in check... But he was WAY more thin-skinned than Miller. Not even close.

Miller is generally very gracious & restrained - He is a very classy dude... But he'll pull out a switchblade when he needs to - and I would not have it any other way.

That's how I remember it too Harvey. The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me. He had a temper and was competitive as anybody. I remember many testy after game radio interviews. He would try to hide how mad he was but ultimately he couldn't. People just have selective memories I guess.

84Cat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:We don't actually have to guess if Lute would have done something so trifling because in 29 seasons he never did
(He once stuck it to some ASU hecklers for invoking Bobbi's name - justified and not remotely even close to the same.)

Strange that none of the Miller-humpers here all over my shit can point to *any* posts they made mentioning Alfords timeout, complaining about it, feeling disrespected about it. Chicat, LH, eebs, where are your posts complaining about Alfords "victory lap" timeout that so wronged the sanctity of Senior Day at McKale that you vowed eternal revenge on UCLA?

oh that's right there are none, so wierd!

im done with this topic until you can provide me posts/stories etc from any source about Alfords supposed "victory lap" timeout

You obviously don't have a fucking clue what Lute did in his 29 seasons here. He was not the way many would have you believe.

How about when he refused to shake K's hand after the 2001 Natty game?
Or when he responded to a (portly) UO heckler as he walked off Mac Court with a recommendation of a gym he should join?
Or when we were playing Ole Miss in the NCAA tourney and someone suggested that Rob Evans was giving the Rebs tips on how to play the Cats and he said "What is he going to tell them. Did you see our games vs ASU this year?" (We waxed them both times)
Or when he barbed a few Duke players (and he and K got into it as a result) during a regular season game?
How about when he kept calling Bruce Pascoe "Colombo" during a presser?

Despite what people want to remember about Lute, he could be petty as hell... And most of the time - I LOVED IT! He was a competitor whose fire got the best of him sometimes. Bobbi kept him in check... But he was WAY more thin-skinned than Miller. Not even close.

Miller is generally very gracious & restrained - He is a very classy dude... But he'll pull out a switchblade when he needs to - and I would not have it any other way.

That's how I remember it too Harvey. The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me. He had a temper and was competitive as anybody. I remember many testy after game radio interviews. He would try to hide how mad he was but ultimately he couldn't. People just have selective memories I guess.

Yet in spite of his detractors, which apparently includes you, Lute is still the gold standard. No myth. As good a coach as Miller is, he is still JFK (or name your choice) to Lute's Lincoln.

MrMeow wrote:

84Cat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:We don't actually have to guess if Lute would have done something so trifling because in 29 seasons he never did
(He once stuck it to some ASU hecklers for invoking Bobbi's name - justified and not remotely even close to the same.)

Strange that none of the Miller-humpers here all over my shit can point to *any* posts they made mentioning Alfords timeout, complaining about it, feeling disrespected about it. Chicat, LH, eebs, where are your posts complaining about Alfords "victory lap" timeout that so wronged the sanctity of Senior Day at McKale that you vowed eternal revenge on UCLA?

oh that's right there are none, so wierd!

im done with this topic until you can provide me posts/stories etc from any source about Alfords supposed "victory lap" timeout

You obviously don't have a fucking clue what Lute did in his 29 seasons here. He was not the way many would have you believe.

How about when he refused to shake K's hand after the 2001 Natty game?
Or when he responded to a (portly) UO heckler as he walked off Mac Court with a recommendation of a gym he should join?
Or when we were playing Ole Miss in the NCAA tourney and someone suggested that Rob Evans was giving the Rebs tips on how to play the Cats and he said "What is he going to tell them. Did you see our games vs ASU this year?" (We waxed them both times)
Or when he barbed a few Duke players (and he and K got into it as a result) during a regular season game?
How about when he kept calling Bruce Pascoe "Colombo" during a presser?

Despite what people want to remember about Lute, he could be petty as hell... And most of the time - I LOVED IT! He was a competitor whose fire got the best of him sometimes. Bobbi kept him in check... But he was WAY more thin-skinned than Miller. Not even close.

Miller is generally very gracious & restrained - He is a very classy dude... But he'll pull out a switchblade when he needs to - and I would not have it any other way.

That's how I remember it too Harvey. The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me. He had a temper and was competitive as anybody. I remember many testy after game radio interviews. He would try to hide how mad he was but ultimately he couldn't. People just have selective memories I guess.

Yet in spite of his detractors, which apparently includes you, Lute is still the gold standard. No myth. As good a coach as Miller is, he is still JFK (or name your choice) to Lute's Lincoln.

I see Lute as Washington and Miller as Lincoln. Lute is the one who built this, Miller is the one who kept it together in its greatest time of crisis.

Is that violating our separation of sports and politics?

It's simple for me: If you don't like Sean Miller, I don't like you.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MrMeow wrote:

84Cat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:We don't actually have to guess if Lute would have done something so trifling because in 29 seasons he never did
(He once stuck it to some ASU hecklers for invoking Bobbi's name - justified and not remotely even close to the same.)

Strange that none of the Miller-humpers here all over my shit can point to *any* posts they made mentioning Alfords timeout, complaining about it, feeling disrespected about it. Chicat, LH, eebs, where are your posts complaining about Alfords "victory lap" timeout that so wronged the sanctity of Senior Day at McKale that you vowed eternal revenge on UCLA?

oh that's right there are none, so wierd!

im done with this topic until you can provide me posts/stories etc from any source about Alfords supposed "victory lap" timeout

You obviously don't have a fucking clue what Lute did in his 29 seasons here. He was not the way many would have you believe.

How about when he refused to shake K's hand after the 2001 Natty game?
Or when he responded to a (portly) UO heckler as he walked off Mac Court with a recommendation of a gym he should join?
Or when we were playing Ole Miss in the NCAA tourney and someone suggested that Rob Evans was giving the Rebs tips on how to play the Cats and he said "What is he going to tell them. Did you see our games vs ASU this year?" (We waxed them both times)
Or when he barbed a few Duke players (and he and K got into it as a result) during a regular season game?
How about when he kept calling Bruce Pascoe "Colombo" during a presser?

Despite what people want to remember about Lute, he could be petty as hell... And most of the time - I LOVED IT! He was a competitor whose fire got the best of him sometimes. Bobbi kept him in check... But he was WAY more thin-skinned than Miller. Not even close.

Miller is generally very gracious & restrained - He is a very classy dude... But he'll pull out a switchblade when he needs to - and I would not have it any other way.

That's how I remember it too Harvey. The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me. He had a temper and was competitive as anybody. I remember many testy after game radio interviews. He would try to hide how mad he was but ultimately he couldn't. People just have selective memories I guess.

Yet in spite of his detractors, which apparently includes you, Lute is still the gold standard. No myth. As good a coach as Miller is, he is still JFK (or name your choice) to Lute's Lincoln.

I see Lute as Washington and Miller as Lincoln. Lute is the one who built this, Miller is the one who kept it together in its greatest time of crisis.

Is that violating our separation of sports and politics?

Nah. Could use any analogy. The JFK/Lincoln one came to mind because it was easy. Lincoln is widely considered the gold standard of presidents. JFK is also widely admired, as is FDR and Washington, but no one is Lincoln but Lincoln. Could have also gone the entertainer route: Sinatra to ?, Brando to ?, etc.

Olsondogg wrote:It's simple for me: If you don't like Sean Miller, I don't like you.

No need to get your panties in a wad. No one said anything about not liking Miller.

Olsondogg wrote:It's simple for me: If you don't like Sean Miller, I don't like you.

lmmfao

MrMeow wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:It's simple for me: If you don't like Sean Miller, I don't like you.

No need to get your panties in a wad. No one said anything about not liking Miller.

And it needs to stay that way.

Olsondogg wrote:It's simple for me: If you don't like Sean Miller, I don't like you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qejcEYvJVvo" target="_blank

How the hell do I embed youtube vids here again?

(you have to use the "youtube" button and copy the embed code and paste in between if that makes sense).

I also endorse your video as my thoughts on the matter.

I've said it time and time again - the people who bash Miller now and look back at Lute like he was God are the same people who bashed Lute when he was on the sidelines. People also largely ignore that Miller is not playing with the same hand Lute was. Before the high school players and foreign players really started invading the NBA Draft, think of the amount of talent that stayed at their schools at least three years... Shaq, Mourning, Laettner, Jim Jackson, Penny Hardaway, Mashburn, Larry Johnson, Steve Smith, Dikembe, Gary Payton, Glen Rice, Pervis Ellison, Danny Manning, Mitch Richmond, Glen Robinson, Grant Hill, Donyell Marshall, Juwan Howard, Marcus Camby, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horn, Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison. There is also a nice list of some all-time greats who at least gave their schools two years. It was an anomaly to see a one and done -Abdur-Rahim, Marbury and Sean Bradley were the only ones from that era. These players played during most of Lute's prime.

Remember that feeling in 1999 and 2002 when Arizona lost nearly the entire house? Miller goes through that on an almost annual basis. Not too many, "well we lost chris Mills and Ed stokes, but we still got Stoudamire, Reeves, Ray Owes and Joe Blair" type of seasons in the Miller era. Arizona was the butt of jokes in the 90s and were considered chokers in those days. When you had to pick a 15/2 or 14/3 upset for your bracket, Arizona was the safest bet for many. This was before losing to mid-majors was fashionable, and there was not much parity in general in the 90s. Now, mid-majors are beating anyone because the blue bloods generally lose almost all their best talent each year and the small schools get loaded up with 3- and 4-year talent and strike when the right group is together at the right time.

In the days when there wasnt social media, the internet wasnt big, and you didnt get as close to the players and coaches via youtube, streaming pressers, etc., I heard several "unpleasant" Lute interactions with the public. I haven't heard a single one of Sean Miller. Lute whined about officials. Lute whined about the conference. Most of it was just, but still.

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Listen, I really like most of the posters here but why do you guys argue with a tool like SquatAndPee? It's like stepping in crap....you can mush the hell out of it but you're still left with a dirty shoe....put that tool on ignore instead .

For me, I am never actually talking to that poster. It is more for that "hang in the back of the room" lurker guy who starts hearing that crap and regurgitating it. I know a couple of guys who are suddenly spouting the "big game" bullshit....and that came straight from message boards. They peek here and there, and just read something and go with it...the contrarian type that will automatically think there is something to it if everyone else just starts insulting the OP. They are "woke" or whatever...

So, when I look to refute stupid posts from the RFs and the BeachCats, I am really speaking, personally, to the back of the room or to people who might be toeing the line of that thinking. To the quick hitter who doesn't know the ins and outs of why it is difficult to maintain quality results in college basketball, doesn't spend too much of their time obsessing, maybe needs a good fact to use in their own water cooler argument. That fan is mad because we lost or maybe just bored, scanning the page, and could use a couple of reasoned facts, disputed points, or other ways to look at it. A bunch of people just saying "you are an idiot" won't do much there but embolden the worst.

That's maybe more actual thinking than I consciously put into it, but when I ask myself why I bother refuting a dumb BC97 post, it usually comes to "what if someone reads his BS and thinks it is right?"

That's noble as hell, EV, but I gotta ask you this... Who fucking cares about people like that? If they are dumb enough to believe it, how does that in any way effect us?

I'll ask a question based off of my question. I've never lived in Tucson, Arizona, or even the west coast and, unless I am remembering incorrectly, I've never in my life been in the same room (Besides MSG) with a single Arizona fan. So is your reasoning based on the fact that you have to interact with these types of fans regularly? Because I could see the desire to educate them rather than listen to them spout off about sean Miller based on the thoughts of someone who doesn't understand anything about basketball like R&F

rgdeuce wrote:I've said it time and time again - the people who bash Miller now and look back at Lute like he was God are the same people who bashed Lute when he was on the sidelines. People also largely ignore that Miller is not playing with the same hand Lute was. Before the high school players and foreign players really started invading the NBA Draft, think of the amount of talent that stayed at their schools at least three years... Shaq, Mourning, Laettner, Jim Jackson, Penny Hardaway, Mashburn, Larry Johnson, Steve Smith, Dikembe, Gary Payton, Glen Rice, Pervis Ellison, Danny Manning, Mitch Richmond, Glen Robinson, Grant Hill, Donyell Marshall, Juwan Howard, Marcus Camby, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horn, Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison. There is also a nice list of some all-time greats who at least gave their schools two years. It was an anomaly to see a one and done -Abdur-Rahim, Marbury and Sean Bradley were the only ones from that era. These players played during most of Lute's prime.

Remember that feeling in 1999 and 2002 when Arizona lost nearly the entire house? Miller goes through that on an almost annual basis. Not too many, "well we lost chris Mills and Ed stokes, but we still got Stoudamire, Reeves, Ray Owes and Joe Blair" type of seasons in the Miller era. Arizona was the butt of jokes in the 90s and were considered chokers in those days. When you had to pick a 15/2 or 14/3 upset for your bracket, Arizona was the safest bet for many. This was before losing to mid-majors was fashionable, and there was not much parity in general in the 90s. Now, mid-majors are beating anyone because the blue bloods generally lose almost all their best talent each year and the small schools get loaded up with 3- and 4-year talent and strike when the right group is together at the right time.

In the days when there wasnt social media, the internet wasnt big, and you didnt get as close to the players and coaches via youtube, streaming pressers, etc., I heard several "unpleasant" Lute interactions with the public. I haven't heard a single one of Sean Miller. Lute whined about officials. Lute whined about the conference. Most of it was just, but still.

A couple of things to consider:

I have followed UA sports closely, including basketball, long before Lute arrived. I never bashed him. Not ever. Like us all, he isn't perfect, but he's a HOF coach, UA is a national basketball power with a packed stadium every game, and Sean Miller is our present coach primarily due to what Lute achieved. Lute is the gold standard of UA basketball. This is not to detract from Sean Miller. He is obviously an excellent coach with a bright future, but it takes longer that eight years and a couple of "Elite eights" to reach gold standard status.

The other thing to consider is both Lute and Miller have played on level fields. What happened in Lute's day applied to all schools and coaches. The same applies to Miller today. One and done's are everywhere today. Could Lute thrive in today's environment? He was an excellent recruiter, but who knows. Total conjecture.

MrMeow wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:I've said it time and time again - the people who bash Miller now and look back at Lute like he was God are the same people who bashed Lute when he was on the sidelines. People also largely ignore that Miller is not playing with the same hand Lute was. Before the high school players and foreign players really started invading the NBA Draft, think of the amount of talent that stayed at their schools at least three years... Shaq, Mourning, Laettner, Jim Jackson, Penny Hardaway, Mashburn, Larry Johnson, Steve Smith, Dikembe, Gary Payton, Glen Rice, Pervis Ellison, Danny Manning, Mitch Richmond, Glen Robinson, Grant Hill, Donyell Marshall, Juwan Howard, Marcus Camby, Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horn, Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison. There is also a nice list of some all-time greats who at least gave their schools two years. It was an anomaly to see a one and done -Abdur-Rahim, Marbury and Sean Bradley were the only ones from that era. These players played during most of Lute's prime.

Remember that feeling in 1999 and 2002 when Arizona lost nearly the entire house? Miller goes through that on an almost annual basis. Not too many, "well we lost chris Mills and Ed stokes, but we still got Stoudamire, Reeves, Ray Owes and Joe Blair" type of seasons in the Miller era. Arizona was the butt of jokes in the 90s and were considered chokers in those days. When you had to pick a 15/2 or 14/3 upset for your bracket, Arizona was the safest bet for many. This was before losing to mid-majors was fashionable, and there was not much parity in general in the 90s. Now, mid-majors are beating anyone because the blue bloods generally lose almost all their best talent each year and the small schools get loaded up with 3- and 4-year talent and strike when the right group is together at the right time.

In the days when there wasnt social media, the internet wasnt big, and you didnt get as close to the players and coaches via youtube, streaming pressers, etc., I heard several "unpleasant" Lute interactions with the public. I haven't heard a single one of Sean Miller. Lute whined about officials. Lute whined about the conference. Most of it was just, but still.

A couple of things to consider:

I have followed UA sports closely, including basketball, long before Lute arrived. I never bashed him. Not ever. Like us all, he isn't perfect, but he's a HOF coach, UA is a national basketball power with a packed stadium every game, and Sean Miller is our present coach primarily due to what Lute achieved. Lute is the gold standard of UA basketball. This is not to detract from Sean Miller. He is obviously an excellent coach with a bright future, but it takes longer that eight years and a couple of "Elite eights" to reach gold standard status.

The other thing to consider is both Lute and Miller have played on level fields. What happened in Lute's day applied to all schools and coaches. The same applies to Miller today. One and done's are everywhere today. Could Lute thrive in today's environment? He was an excellent recruiter, but who knows. Total conjecture.

Just to put Lute in perspective - In 1984, the U of A had had some regional success under Snowden, but was no more than what UNM continues to be to this day....

The day it was announced that he'd been hired at the U of A, my close friends and I immediately responded with high-fives and: "We're going to the Final Four!!!" He was already that well known and respected among basketball cognoscenti....

dcZONAfan wrote:That's noble as hell, EV, but I gotta ask you this... Who fucking cares about people like that? If they are dumb enough to believe it, how does that in any way effect us?

I'll ask a question based off of my question. I've never lived in Tucson, Arizona, or even the west coast and, unless I am remembering incorrectly, I've never in my life been in the same room (Besides MSG) with a single Arizona fan. So is your reasoning based on the fact that you have to interact with these types of fans regularly? Because I could see the desire to educate them rather than listen to them spout off about sean Miller based on the thoughts of someone who doesn't understand anything about basketball like R&F

It's a message board. We message.

Sometimes to people we like. Sometimes not.

And, yeah...I gotta hear the stupid shit almost every time I am in Tucson. Everyone in town is addicted to the team, and they take whatever information they can get. And there is a small but vocal "Miller can't do shit in big games" contingent.

I think it is fair to point out their lack of validity.

it's like open source for the argument. We can all put some in and take some from here and use IRL

I don't know what your talking about MrMeow, I love Lute Olson! He was a competitor who loved to win and he built AZ BB into a national power. CSM has continued the tradition and hopefully will take us even higher.

84Cat wrote:I don't know what your talking about MrMeow, I love Lute Olson! He was a competitor who loved to win and he built AZ BB into a national power. CSM has continued the tradition and hopefully will take us even higher.

"The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me." I guess that's what I based my statement on, but I'm glad to hear otherwise. Your post above is how I see it, exactly.

Ugh, that was gut wrenching just reading that

TheBlackLodge wrote:

After the fourth, though …

“I would just say that of all the games that I’ve lost in the tournament, that one right there was the one that probably had a different meaning for me,” Miller said of the 85-78 loss in 2015 to Wisconsin and its 10 second-half three-point shots in 2015, five by Sam Dekker, embodying another Madness ghoul: the smack into the hot shooter.

“Now you’re at your fourth one, and it doesn’t matter what anyone says, you just don’t want to hear it. You don’t want to hear, ‘That’s a great season.’ You don’t want to hear, ‘Hey, your time’s gonna come.’ You don’t want to hear, ‘When you least expect it, you’re gonna be there.’ You just say to yourself, ‘This is the fourth time. I wish I would have lost in the first round.’”

Miller deserves the easier path this year he got in the West, but man is it going to hurt if he loses again, even if it's to give Few his first.

As always, the only certain thing about Arizona's path is they will play every highest seed possible for as far as they go:

7 Saint Mary's
3 FSU
1 Gonzaga
1 Villanova
1 Kansas

UConn isn't in the field, but I'm still picking them to win the title against a sequence of just about the lowest seeds you can imagine.

NYCat wrote:

TheBlackLodge wrote:

After the fourth, though …

“I would just say that of all the games that I’ve lost in the tournament, that one right there was the one that probably had a different meaning for me,” Miller said of the 85-78 loss in 2015 to Wisconsin and its 10 second-half three-point shots in 2015, five by Sam Dekker, embodying another Madness ghoul: the smack into the hot shooter.

“Now you’re at your fourth one, and it doesn’t matter what anyone says, you just don’t want to hear it. You don’t want to hear, ‘That’s a great season.’ You don’t want to hear, ‘Hey, your time’s gonna come.’ You don’t want to hear, ‘When you least expect it, you’re gonna be there.’ You just say to yourself, ‘This is the fourth time. I wish I would have lost in the first round.’”

Miller deserves the easier path this year he got in the West, but man is it going to hurt if he loses again, even if it's to give Few his first.

I think he has the easier path this year. IMO there isn't a team in UA's bracket as good as Oregon (even without Boucher) and perhaps UCLA. What we who follow our team closely know, and what most sports writers, especially Clown Vitale, don't know, is how different this UA team is now than the one that lost to Gonzaga earlier, and more importantly, why. How many, outside of diehard UA fans, watched every UA game and saw every little change, saw the progression? We know, they don't, and that's a good thing. Shhh...

Trier? Of course, everyone knows that. How about Laurie's improved inside game? How about PJC's emergence? How about improved team chemistry with Trier fully blended in? How about Miller's better knowledge of how to employ his personnel? How about Rawle's growth? How about how tough this team is? And more. Little, generally overlooked, things that only those paying close attention know. The team that won the PAC 12 conference is an entirely different team than the one the one that lost to Gonzaga.

I think we are looking at Miller's first Final Four team. Thank you selection committee. It also wouldn't surprise me to see an all PAC 12 final. Would two out of three disappoint anyone outside of Eugene?

You shootv58% in the second half against UCLA and no one would say much given their defense.

You shout that same %againse Oregon the next night and you say, wow that group can beat anyone.

On to another gut wrenching elite 8 game people

MrMeow wrote:

84Cat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:We don't actually have to guess if Lute would have done something so trifling because in 29 seasons he never did
(He once stuck it to some ASU hecklers for invoking Bobbi's name - justified and not remotely even close to the same.)

Strange that none of the Miller-humpers here all over my shit can point to *any* posts they made mentioning Alfords timeout, complaining about it, feeling disrespected about it. Chicat, LH, eebs, where are your posts complaining about Alfords "victory lap" timeout that so wronged the sanctity of Senior Day at McKale that you vowed eternal revenge on UCLA?

oh that's right there are none, so wierd!

im done with this topic until you can provide me posts/stories etc from any source about Alfords supposed "victory lap" timeout

You obviously don't have a fucking clue what Lute did in his 29 seasons here. He was not the way many would have you believe.

How about when he refused to shake K's hand after the 2001 Natty game?
Or when he responded to a (portly) UO heckler as he walked off Mac Court with a recommendation of a gym he should join?
Or when we were playing Ole Miss in the NCAA tourney and someone suggested that Rob Evans was giving the Rebs tips on how to play the Cats and he said "What is he going to tell them. Did you see our games vs ASU this year?" (We waxed them both times)
Or when he barbed a few Duke players (and he and K got into it as a result) during a regular season game?
How about when he kept calling Bruce Pascoe "Colombo" during a presser?

Despite what people want to remember about Lute, he could be petty as hell... And most of the time - I LOVED IT! He was a competitor whose fire got the best of him sometimes. Bobbi kept him in check... But he was WAY more thin-skinned than Miller. Not even close.

Miller is generally very gracious & restrained - He is a very classy dude... But he'll pull out a switchblade when he needs to - and I would not have it any other way.

That's how I remember it too Harvey. The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me. He had a temper and was competitive as anybody. I remember many testy after game radio interviews. He would try to hide how mad he was but ultimately he couldn't. People just have selective memories I guess.

Yet in spite of his detractors, which apparently includes you, Lute is still the gold standard. No myth. As good a coach as Miller is, he is still JFK (or name your choice) to Lute's Lincoln.

What the fuck are you talking about? Can you read?

Who in this thread is a Lute detractor? None that I have seen.... it's just that some of us are not revisionist historians.

Acknowledging the reality of his personality & demeanor does not detract in the slightest from his greatness or the unquestionable contributions he made to this university and program - which will never be replicated.

The people who bitch about Miller are the same dbag types that whined about Lute's early round exits. Denigrating excellence because it isn't perfection.

I love both men, despite (and in some cases in part because of) their imperfections.

You know what's sad is that it seems too many folks seem to only care about the NCAA Tourney....which winning it is HUGE but makes people forget about all the regular season wins and conference tourney wins.....Beloved Lute had some horribly sad early NCAA flameouts and under-performances as well as his Championship BUT he had sooooo many successes during the season and conference tourneys as well.

He made Arizona a great, dominant program and Sean is continuing that proud tradition of excellence.....there is a reason why teams are scared to play is at McKale as well as other venues.

A good example of, what I consider the over-valuation of the NCAAs is Uconn.....they've stunk up the regular season often yet have over-performed at the NCAAs......Obviously I'm biased but I can't see any metric that makes them a better program than us.

Anyways, PEACE guys....this thread, especially at this time of year, should be a uniting one....not dividing us. Let's BTFD and enjoy CSM......now how about that UCLA P12 Tourney Timeout, lol. #SavageLife, #Payback'sAbitch, #LoveKadeem

Harvey Specter wrote:

MrMeow wrote:

84Cat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:We don't actually have to guess if Lute would have done something so trifling because in 29 seasons he never did
(He once stuck it to some ASU hecklers for invoking Bobbi's name - justified and not remotely even close to the same.)

Strange that none of the Miller-humpers here all over my shit can point to *any* posts they made mentioning Alfords timeout, complaining about it, feeling disrespected about it. Chicat, LH, eebs, where are your posts complaining about Alfords "victory lap" timeout that so wronged the sanctity of Senior Day at McKale that you vowed eternal revenge on UCLA?

oh that's right there are none, so wierd!

im done with this topic until you can provide me posts/stories etc from any source about Alfords supposed "victory lap" timeout

You obviously don't have a fucking clue what Lute did in his 29 seasons here. He was not the way many would have you believe.

How about when he refused to shake K's hand after the 2001 Natty game?
Or when he responded to a (portly) UO heckler as he walked off Mac Court with a recommendation of a gym he should join?
Or when we were playing Ole Miss in the NCAA tourney and someone suggested that Rob Evans was giving the Rebs tips on how to play the Cats and he said "What is he going to tell them. Did you see our games vs ASU this year?" (We waxed them both times)
Or when he barbed a few Duke players (and he and K got into it as a result) during a regular season game?
How about when he kept calling Bruce Pascoe "Colombo" during a presser?

Despite what people want to remember about Lute, he could be petty as hell... And most of the time - I LOVED IT! He was a competitor whose fire got the best of him sometimes. Bobbi kept him in check... But he was WAY more thin-skinned than Miller. Not even close.

Miller is generally very gracious & restrained - He is a very classy dude... But he'll pull out a switchblade when he needs to - and I would not have it any other way.

That's how I remember it too Harvey. The Legend of Lute never ceases to amaze me. He had a temper and was competitive as anybody. I remember many testy after game radio interviews. He would try to hide how mad he was but ultimately he couldn't. People just have selective memories I guess.

Yet in spite of his detractors, which apparently includes you, Lute is still the gold standard. No myth. As good a coach as Miller is, he is still JFK (or name your choice) to Lute's Lincoln.

What the fuck are you talking about? Can you read?

Who in this thread is a Lute detractor? None that I have seen.... it's just that some of us are not revisionist historians.

Acknowledging the reality of his personality & demeanor does not detract in the slightest from his greatness or the unquestionable contributions he made to this university and program - which will never be replicated.

The people who bitch about Miller are the same dbag types that whined about Lute's early round exits. Denigrating excellence because it isn't perfection.

I love both men, despite (and in some cases in part because of) their imperfections.

Can you read, and if you can do you bother. Go back and review this thread, smartass.

To get a sense of Miller's pure genius, take a look at the players faces, especially Kobi during the .9 timeout - pure joy.

Miller's latest press conferences and interviews should get all Cat fans very excited for the future. His leadership skills have gone "off the charts" with statements like "we love Kadeem, we wanted to show him appreciation, we just want to be at our best, we don't care about being a number 1 seed, we just need to be at our best, be in the moment". These are all anti-ego statements, and the players represent an anti-ego attitude. Anti-ego drives greatness.

Love love love Miller!!! S&P's jealously is hilarious (squat and pee).

I don't see honest talk of both Lute or Sean's era as being detracting.

In fact, Lute's personal fire, that sometimes got him in a bit of trouble in the press, was endearing to me.

He wasn't perfect. His teams lost far too often in the 1st round, and he took his every major win to teach the media a lesson. The first round losses were never fun, but it was very satisfying as a fan to know Lute not only had our back, Arizona's back, but the entire region's back, and had no problem bringing the heat to those back east who dared to ignore us. Lute's teams were regular season juggernauts that were taught to prepare and win like a Wooden team. Sometimes, that lack of on court urgency hurt us in the one and done NCAA tournament. And too many judge teams by only what they did in the tournament. Top to bottom, from day 1 to the end, Lute Olson's tenure at Arizona is Hall of Fame material and is absolutely jaw dropping when you add all the accomplishments together, and the longevity of excellence...when your "down" year is losing in the 1st round over a quarter of a century lookback, that is pretty remarkable.

Sean Miller is a phenomenal young coach coaching in an environment that differs greatly from Lute. Lute developed teams and players over time...Miller recruits much better than Lute in national rankings, but sometimes only gets his Sean Elliott for one year. IT's a different world, but Miller is perfectly designed for it, as we see in his consistent recruiting prowess. Lute grabbed a couple of banner classes, but mostly took top 25 classes and developed them over the 3 or 4 years we don't get today into NBA capable stars.

The only comparison is the program they are at. And anyone wanting to make this into a "Lute was better" or "Sean is better" battle simply doesn't have the best for this program in mind and should be ignored. What Lute did was legendary. And also had its periods of great desert...the 1st round losing lasted as long as Miller's ELite Eight run. The difference is Lute had not yet created the expectation of Final Fours. That exists now, and some fans don't understand just how fucking hard it was for Lute to get there, and I am sure Lute would be the first to tell them that what Sean has done with where the program was when he started is a hall of fame trajectory and to just back off, this kid is getting us there and he is still a young coach.

But some cannot be happy with two lightning strikes of coaching prowess back to back. No...they have to compare the power of the strike and make one better than the other. Simply pointing out that the issue Miller faces here or there are not that much different than troubles Lute had at times is not denigrating Lute. Lute Olson built this house, then let it fall into disrepair due to medical issues and a bit of an expiration date anyway (since 2005, there were questions with how we were building). Sean Miller has restored this house, and it looks awesome and is easy to fix because Lute's construction has made it far easier to restore. They work well together despite being a perfect example of a potential war of the old and new that you see at most programs. They respect each other. Why can't we?

(and I know...the vast majority of us do. It's the ones who try to make this into a Lute vs Sean battle, from either side, that get off on the fight)..

EVCat wrote:I don't see honest talk of both Lute or Sean's era as being detracting.

In fact, Lute's personal fire, that sometimes got him in a bit of trouble in the press, was endearing to me.

He wasn't perfect. His teams lost far too often in the 1st round, and he took his every major win to teach the media a lesson. The first round losses were never fun, but it was very satisfying as a fan to know Lute not only had our back, Arizona's back, but the entire region's back, and had no problem bringing the heat to those back east who dared to ignore us. Lute's teams were regular season juggernauts that were taught to prepare and win like a Wooden team. Sometimes, that lack of on court urgency hurt us in the one and done NCAA tournament. And too many judge teams by only what they did in the tournament. Top to bottom, from day 1 to the end, Lute Olson's tenure at Arizona is Hall of Fame material and is absolutely jaw dropping when you add all the accomplishments together, and the longevity of excellence...when your "down" year is losing in the 1st round over a quarter of a century lookback, that is pretty remarkable.

Sean Miller is a phenomenal young coach coaching in an environment that differs greatly from Lute. Lute developed teams and players over time...Miller recruits much better than Lute in national rankings, but sometimes only gets his Sean Elliott for one year. IT's a different world, but Miller is perfectly designed for it, as we see in his consistent recruiting prowess. Lute grabbed a couple of banner classes, but mostly took top 25 classes and developed them over the 3 or 4 years we don't get today into NBA capable stars.

The only comparison is the program they are at. And anyone wanting to make this into a "Lute was better" or "Sean is better" battle simply doesn't have the best for this program in mind and should be ignored. What Lute did was legendary. And also had its periods of great desert...the 1st round losing lasted as long as Miller's ELite Eight run. The difference is Lute had not yet created the expectation of Final Fours. That exists now, and some fans don't understand just how fucking hard it was for Lute to get there, and I am sure Lute would be the first to tell them that what Sean has done with where the program was when he started is a hall of fame trajectory and to just back off, this kid is getting us there and he is still a young coach.

But some cannot be happy with two lightning strikes of coaching prowess back to back. No...they have to compare the power of the strike and make one better than the other. Simply pointing out that the issue Miller faces here or there are not that much different than troubles Lute had at times is not denigrating Lute. Lute Olson built this house, then let it fall into disrepair due to medical issues and a bit of an expiration date anyway (since 2005, there were questions with how we were building). Sean Miller has restored this house, and it looks awesome and is easy to fix because Lute's construction has made it far easier to restore. They work well together despite being a perfect example of a potential war of the old and new that you see at most programs. They respect each other. Why can't we?

(and I know...the vast majority of us do. It's the ones who try to make this into a Lute vs Sean battle, from either side, that get off on the fight)..

Lute and Miller are both outstanding coaches. We are lucky to have them back to back. I completely agree that the ease with which they relate to each other is very underrated. Having Lute at home games never comes off as undercutting Miller's leadership of our program, but instead as supporting it.

They're different in a lot of ways, but that isn't bad. Arizona is a non-traditional program in a lot of ways. We aren't a program like UNC or Michigan football, where fans really care about a coach being an alum.

Lute was the right guy for his era at Arizona. Miller is the right guy for his era here. They've melded well and the transition has been better than 2007-9 would have made you believe was possible.

EVCat wrote:I don't see honest talk of both Lute or Sean's era as being detracting.

In fact, Lute's personal fire, that sometimes got him in a bit of trouble in the press, was endearing to me.

He wasn't perfect. His teams lost far too often in the 1st round, and he took his every major win to teach the media a lesson. The first round losses were never fun, but it was very satisfying as a fan to know Lute not only had our back, Arizona's back, but the entire region's back, and had no problem bringing the heat to those back east who dared to ignore us. Lute's teams were regular season juggernauts that were taught to prepare and win like a Wooden team. Sometimes, that lack of on court urgency hurt us in the one and done NCAA tournament. And too many judge teams by only what they did in the tournament. Top to bottom, from day 1 to the end, Lute Olson's tenure at Arizona is Hall of Fame material and is absolutely jaw dropping when you add all the accomplishments together, and the longevity of excellence...when your "down" year is losing in the 1st round over a quarter of a century lookback, that is pretty remarkable.

Sean Miller is a phenomenal young coach coaching in an environment that differs greatly from Lute. Lute developed teams and players over time...Miller recruits much better than Lute in national rankings, but sometimes only gets his Sean Elliott for one year. IT's a different world, but Miller is perfectly designed for it, as we see in his consistent recruiting prowess. Lute grabbed a couple of banner classes, but mostly took top 25 classes and developed them over the 3 or 4 years we don't get today into NBA capable stars.

The only comparison is the program they are at. And anyone wanting to make this into a "Lute was better" or "Sean is better" battle simply doesn't have the best for this program in mind and should be ignored. What Lute did was legendary. And also had its periods of great desert...the 1st round losing lasted as long as Miller's ELite Eight run. The difference is Lute had not yet created the expectation of Final Fours. That exists now, and some fans don't understand just how fucking hard it was for Lute to get there, and I am sure Lute would be the first to tell them that what Sean has done with where the program was when he started is a hall of fame trajectory and to just back off, this kid is getting us there and he is still a young coach.

But some cannot be happy with two lightning strikes of coaching prowess back to back. No...they have to compare the power of the strike and make one better than the other. Simply pointing out that the issue Miller faces here or there are not that much different than troubles Lute had at times is not denigrating Lute. Lute Olson built this house, then let it fall into disrepair due to medical issues and a bit of an expiration date anyway (since 2005, there were questions with how we were building). Sean Miller has restored this house, and it looks awesome and is easy to fix because Lute's construction has made it far easier to restore. They work well together despite being a perfect example of a potential war of the old and new that you see at most programs. They respect each other. Why can't we?

(and I know...the vast majority of us do. It's the ones who try to make this into a Lute vs Sean battle, from either side, that get off on the fight)..

There's one thing that is completely in Sean's control that he still needs to do if he wants to match Lute for real Arizona fans' devotion. He has to say no to UNC when he gets that offer just like Lute turned down everyone else.

Great point LK

MrMeow wrote:
I have followed UA sports closely, including basketball, long before Lute arrived. I never bashed him. Not ever. Like us all, he isn't perfect, but he's a HOF coach, UA is a national basketball power with a packed stadium every game, and Sean Miller is our present coach primarily due to what Lute achieved. Lute is the gold standard of UA basketball. This is not to detract from Sean Miller. He is obviously an excellent coach with a bright future, but it takes longer that eight years and a couple of "Elite eights" to reach gold standard status.

The other thing to consider is both Lute and Miller have played on level fields. What happened in Lute's day applied to all schools and coaches. The same applies to Miller today. One and done's are everywhere today. Could Lute thrive in today's environment? He was an excellent recruiter, but who knows. Total conjecture.

Couple things, for clarity purposes: My post wasn't directed at you specifically, was speaking generally. I'd give a kidney to Lute or CSM without any hesitation and fully realize Arizona basketball is nothing today without Lute. I do, however, look back at Lute's career and realize it wasn't perfect and the man wasn't perfect, and that's fine. There is no perfect coach, but both Lute and Miller are perfect for Arizona.

I think you're only partially correct with the assertion that what applies to Miller today applies to everyone else. Yes, most competitive programs can have issues with the one and done/guys leaving early. However, it only largely affects a handful of schools, us, the Kentuckys, Dukes, UNCs, Kansas, etc. For everyone of us, there are plenty of other elite/historic programs who generally keep most of their guys four years, like Wisconsin, Oregon, Michigan State, Louisville, etc. So it does put Miller at a disadvantage, and the Wisconsin situation is the perfect example:

First year, Wisky beats us with Juniors Kaminsky and Dekker, and a bunch of other upperclassmen, plus a great frosh Nigel Hayes. It's a Lute era type of situation. We had Sophomores Zeus, Ashley (hurt), and York, JRs Nick Johnson and TJ, and Freshmen Aaron Gordon and Rondae. Remember, that team lost Grant Jerrett early to the draft, but who knows, maybe he transfers in the Lute era, rather than declare. So they beat us at the wire. Next year, we get them again and they bring back everyone pretty much, with Seniors Kaminsky and Dekker, again, Lute era type of situation. We lost our best player, 1st team All American Nick Johnson, and Aaron Gordon. Now think of the situation had Miller been in a Lute era situation.

C - Zeus JR
PF- Ashley JR (healthy)
SF- Aaron Gordon SO (All American level likely, best defender in nation)
SG- Nick Johnson SR (1st Team All American)
PG- TJ McConnell SR (All American level)
bench (and we can even assume that Grant Jerrett merely transferred)
SG/SF- Stanley Johnson FR (all pac 12 1st team)
SF/PF- Rondae SO (one of best defenders in nation, all pac 12 1st team)
SG - York JR
C- Dusan FR
PG - PJC

There is no way in hell that team loses to Wisconsin. They get their revenge. People say nobody could have stopped Dekker on that night, but he wouldn't have done what he did against Aaron Gordon. We now have two of the top defending forwards in the league to throw on Dekker and Kaminsky. Matter fact, that team above could have been the greatest defensive NCAA team of all time. I'll take that team over the 88 final four team. So no, the playing field isn't level. Now, would that team smear Kentucky in the semifinal? Probably not, cuz they could have used the same argument we have here. But at least we would have gotten there. I have no doubts a healthy Lute Olson would win well in today's game. All I am saying is, we cant penalize Miller for not doing what Lute did because the circumstances and eras are not the same. There is WAY more parity in today's game and despite that, CSM only has one early exit from the tourney and it was in a dumpster fire of a season due to a max exodus and to a Wichita State team that was way underseeded. To me, the ideal goal is to put a top 25 team on the floor every year, and as many of those years as possible, have a national contender (ie top 5 or 10) team with aim at a title/final four. Lute accomplished this by losing a key piece or two (Chris Mills), and having two key pieces returning (Reeves, Stoudamire) and bringing in a future key piece (Simon). That was how Lute reloaded. Miller has to do it in a much more difficult fashion. His Mills, Reeves, Stoudamires all leave early, so he has to reload with multiple new Mills, Reeves, and Stoudamires each season on the recruiting trail. It's tough to do.

Live presser now via the AZ athletics twitter...at youtube.

Sean Miller should hire Lorenzo Romar as an assistant before dinnertime today.

97cats wrote:Sean Miller should hire Lorenzo Romar as an assistant before dinnertime today.

Romar doesn't want to coach a low mid major?

Hearing NBA assistant possible...Clippers...

97cats wrote:Sean Miller should hire Lorenzo Romar as an assistant before dinnertime today.

I'd take him in a heartbeat. Romar was never a stellar bench coach, but he can recruit, recruit, recruit.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

97cats wrote:Sean Miller should hire Lorenzo Romar as an assistant before dinnertime today.

I'd take him in a heartbeat. Romar was never a stellar bench coach, but he can recruit, recruit, recruit.

this. He does have a ton of experience coaching. i'd take him right away.

97cats wrote:Sean Miller should hire Lorenzo Romar as an assistant before dinnertime today.

Gotta wait until Pasternack replaces the guy who replaces the guy who replaces Cuonzo.

But you can bring on Romar right now as a consultant and then promote him.

97cats wrote:Sean Miller should hire Lorenzo Romar as an assistant before dinnertime today.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. let me just say again, yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Doesn't really happen that often does it (high major coach taking asst. coach job), maybe when Jeff Capel went back to Duke. I'd rather Book leave and Romar take the position not Pasternak

rgdeuce wrote:

MrMeow wrote:
I have followed UA sports closely, including basketball, long before Lute arrived. I never bashed him. Not ever. Like us all, he isn't perfect, but he's a HOF coach, UA is a national basketball power with a packed stadium every game, and Sean Miller is our present coach primarily due to what Lute achieved. Lute is the gold standard of UA basketball. This is not to detract from Sean Miller. He is obviously an excellent coach with a bright future, but it takes longer that eight years and a couple of "Elite eights" to reach gold standard status.

The other thing to consider is both Lute and Miller have played on level fields. What happened in Lute's day applied to all schools and coaches. The same applies to Miller today. One and done's are everywhere today. Could Lute thrive in today's environment? He was an excellent recruiter, but who knows. Total conjecture.

Couple things, for clarity purposes: My post wasn't directed at you specifically, was speaking generally. I'd give a kidney to Lute or CSM without any hesitation and fully realize Arizona basketball is nothing today without Lute. I do, however, look back at Lute's career and realize it wasn't perfect and the man wasn't perfect, and that's fine. There is no perfect coach, but both Lute and Miller are perfect for Arizona.

I think you're only partially correct with the assertion that what applies to Miller today applies to everyone else. Yes, most competitive programs can have issues with the one and done/guys leaving early. However, it only largely affects a handful of schools, us, the Kentuckys, Dukes, UNCs, Kansas, etc. For everyone of us, there are plenty of other elite/historic programs who generally keep most of their guys four years, like Wisconsin, Oregon, Michigan State, Louisville, etc. So it does put Miller at a disadvantage, and the Wisconsin situation is the perfect example:

First year, Wisky beats us with Juniors Kaminsky and Dekker, and a bunch of other upperclassmen, plus a great frosh Nigel Hayes. It's a Lute era type of situation. We had Sophomores Zeus, Ashley (hurt), and York, JRs Nick Johnson and TJ, and Freshmen Aaron Gordon and Rondae. Remember, that team lost Grant Jerrett early to the draft, but who knows, maybe he transfers in the Lute era, rather than declare. So they beat us at the wire. Next year, we get them again and they bring back everyone pretty much, with Seniors Kaminsky and Dekker, again, Lute era type of situation. We lost our best player, 1st team All American Nick Johnson, and Aaron Gordon. Now think of the situation had Miller been in a Lute era situation.

C - Zeus JR
PF- Ashley JR (healthy)
SF- Aaron Gordon SO (All American level likely, best defender in nation)
SG- Nick Johnson SR (1st Team All American)
PG- TJ McConnell SR (All American level)
bench (and we can even assume that Grant Jerrett merely transferred)
SG/SF- Stanley Johnson FR (all pac 12 1st team)
SF/PF- Rondae SO (one of best defenders in nation, all pac 12 1st team)
SG - York JR
C- Dusan FR
PG - PJC

There is no way in hell that team loses to Wisconsin. They get their revenge. People say nobody could have stopped Dekker on that night, but he wouldn't have done what he did against Aaron Gordon. We now have two of the top defending forwards in the league to throw on Dekker and Kaminsky. Matter fact, that team above could have been the greatest defensive NCAA team of all time. I'll take that team over the 88 final four team. So no, the playing field isn't level. Now, would that team smear Kentucky in the semifinal? Probably not, cuz they could have used the same argument we have here. But at least we would have gotten there. I have no doubts a healthy Lute Olson would win well in today's game. All I am saying is, we cant penalize Miller for not doing what Lute did because the circumstances and eras are not the same. There is WAY more parity in today's game and despite that, CSM only has one early exit from the tourney and it was in a dumpster fire of a season due to a max exodus and to a Wichita State team that was way underseeded. To me, the ideal goal is to put a top 25 team on the floor every year, and as many of those years as possible, have a national contender (ie top 5 or 10) team with aim at a title/final four. Lute accomplished this by losing a key piece or two (Chris Mills), and having two key pieces returning (Reeves, Stoudamire) and bringing in a future key piece (Simon). That was how Lute reloaded. Miller has to do it in a much more difficult fashion. His Mills, Reeves, Stoudamires all leave early, so he has to reload with multiple new Mills, Reeves, and Stoudamires each season on the recruiting trail. It's tough to do.

I appreciate your point of view on player retention, however, I still think today's recruiting/retention ethic applies to all. What are the Wisconsins, Oregons, MSUs, Louisvilles, etc. doing differently within that ethic to better retain players. Seems to me the answer is they are not recruiting at such an initial high level as the Kentuckys, Arizonas, Dukes, etc. Frankly, I think that is because most schools can't for whatever reason (no basketball tradition, coach who can't recruit well, facilities, etc.), and they are forced to rely more heavily on longer term player development of lesser recruits. I don't doubt that they would if they could. Who wouldn't want 5 star recruits? And perhaps this is what gives the game so much parity now ... some 4th or 5th year seniors are as good or better than 5 star freshmen.

But again, today's ethic applies to all schools. Some can take advantage of it, most can't, so they are forced to do something else. In Lute's day it was a different ethic, different rules by which all schools played. Because there are relatively few 5 star kids available, and because every school would like to have them, is it fair to say the schools that can get them have the advantage today? I'm too lazy (actually pressed for time) to do the research, but it seems to me over recent years, that is overall, it's the recruiting advantaged schools, those that are subject to early departures, that have done better.

Sean Miller is one heck of a recruiter, and has said publicly he's going after the "one and done" types. Could he do otherwise and do what the Wisconsins of the world do? Of course. Is he at a disadvantage by taking the "one and done" route? If so, it's by choice.

NYCat wrote:Doesn't really happen that often does it (high major coach taking asst. coach job), maybe when Jeff Capel went back to Duke. I'd rather Book leave and Romar take the position not Pasternak

I would too, but far more opportunities out there for Joe.

Do we get Michael Porter with Romar? But seriously Book for Romar?

Lando05 wrote:Do we get Michael Porter with Romar? But seriously Book for Romar?

Porter Jr. prolly goes where Porter Sr. goes. Soooooo.... Missouri?