Sean Miller

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:54 am

I agree there's something weird going on here. Miller doesn't deny the report (so he did say it?, he's not allowed to discuss?) but yet says he will be vindicated.

Tells Heeke and Robbins the whole story (apparently) and they back him.

Things that make you go hmmmm.......

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:56 am

Why did the leaker of this story go to a cable sports network?

ESPN would have covered it just as vigorously if the story had been broken by the New York Times.

What about the behind-the-scenes process of breaking a story with anonymous sources was more appealing at ESPN?

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:57 am

Longhorned wrote:Does anybody know how good ESPN is with editorial management? How much are they in the business of maintaining journalistic standards when approving of sources? I ask because they are obviously a cable TV sports network. Why did the leaker of this information go to ESPN, and not the Washington Post, for example?

It's the wild west. They don't have any standards. When they mess up in a major way, they post an "ombudsman" post low on the front page. But that's rare. In the last 2 weeks they've posted names of college athletes under Title IX investigation which is a big no-no. It's a clown show.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:12 am

prh wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Does anybody know how good ESPN is with editorial management? How much are they in the business of maintaining journalistic standards when approving of sources? I ask because they are obviously a cable TV sports network. Why did the leaker of this information go to ESPN, and not the Washington Post, for example?
It's the wild west. They don't have any standards. When they mess up in a major way, they post an "ombudsman" post low on the front page. But that's rare. In the last 2 weeks they've posted names of college athletes under Title IX investigation which is a big no-no. It's a clown show.

And so that's whom the leaker(s) presented this information and sources to? It's the managing editors who approve of sources and clear stories for release. Now there are inconsistencies in the timeline of events and strong denials by those implicated, and the only professionals who are doubling down on the certainty of the story work for ESPN or other sports reporting outlets.

This whole thing is a little beyond the range of sports journalism, especially for a cable TV sports network with an appended website.

The pushback from Ayton's family, and the assertive denial from Miller, may be interesting.

And is there still word that Dawkins' camp may be who provided these "sources familiar with the investigation" to ESPN?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:13 am

The Star writers are licking their chops that they've got a scandal to cover and are coming for the 'Cats. Look at Finley's comment:

(This is regarding Brian Jefferies comment below)

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:21 am

tucsonsean wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
tucsonsean wrote:It has probably been said before. I don't lurk or participate like I used to.

What if Miller is involved in the FBI investigation? He may not be able to say anything right now. That's my best guess amongst all this, especially Miller's "vindication" statement. He may not be ABLE to say anything right now as the FBI continues its investigation and he plays whatever role he is playing in it.

Something just doesn't add up to me in all this. My "crazy" speculation is maybe Miller was asked by the FBI to play a role if Dawkins called him. So the wiretaps? Sure they have him saying something. What Dawkins attorney does not know is that Miller was playing state's witness.
It wouldn't support 97Cats original assertion last year that Miller had gotten ahead of this (or something along those liens)... but he has not suggestied anything since that supports that narrative.

There is no doubt that Strange Things are afoot at the Circle K....
Is getting ahead of it in line with working with the FBI? Suppose Miller gets asked to say certain things or "go along" with Dawkins when he calls. Seems to me Miller's "ill be vindicated in the end" comment would support his current state of the FBI saying you can't say shit about an ongoing investigation you were involved in.... Maybe I am reaching but I certainly feel like reaching for whatever reason...

Your comment would certainly make sense of the alleged suggestion that Miller directed the agent that "All discussions about money go through HIM".

It would also explain why he did not deny that the conversation ever took place... or why ESPN's source (agent's JD) believed that Miller was involved. (Maybe fishing because they suspect Miller set him up?)

But I'm not ready to believe that... if it were true, then life really does imitate art and A Player's Program should be the title of Grisham's next novel...

KillerKlown · Post by **KillerKlown** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:33 am

What if Miller did offer a hundred grand but the money never exchanged hands or went anywhere? How bad would that be? I know it's still a very bad look but if the money never went anywhere what would be the sanctions that would be dropped on us?

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:47 am

UAEebs86 wrote:The Star writers are licking their chops that they've got a scandal to cover and are coming for the 'Cats. Look at Finley's comment:

(This is regarding Brian Jefferies comment below)

Is there breaking news I missed? A player was found guilty or confessed guilt? No? Ok then. There are multiple definitions for innocent. Why does Finley have an issue with the comment? Looking for his big break?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:59 am

USA Today piles on, calling for CSM to step down:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 371014002/

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:06 am

UAEebs86 wrote:USA Today piles on, calling for CSM to step down:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 371014002/

What an absolute trash article

Though it appears we’re a long way from Miller actually being fired — his contract language is complicated, not to mention Arizona can’t cut someone loose just because of something that was written in a report and has yet to be proven true — it’s likely he’s coached his last game at Arizona. In many ways, he’s already been convicted in the court of public opinion.

Because of people like you

Alums have already started to turn on Miller: Friday night when the report of the wire-tapped call published, former Arizona standout Jason Terry tweeted “it’s time to clean house and bring home our own bloodlines to carry on Lutes (sic) Legacy. We have too much pride, too much tradition to allow outsiders to tear down what we built.” (That tweet has since been deleted.)

And that tweet was also prior to the ESPN report

(In responding to how he’s seen Ayton react to everything, Jackson-Cartwright said, in what was undoubtedly an unintentionally poor choice of words, “The last 24 hours have probably been difficult for him, but he’s handled it like a professional.” Face palm.)

GFY

We probably won’t see him again. Arizona and Miller will likely reach some sort of agreement and part ways, and that’ll be that.

Because he's been declared guilty by the media like you

Watching this play out over the last 48 hours has reminded me, in some ways, of the Lance Armstrong situation.

GFY #2

At some point, you become enough of a distraction that the professional thing to do is step away. Miller has already crossed that line.

You crossed that line for him

EDIT: Sounds like she didn't even watch the game. Sounds like a clown. https://twitter.com/Lindsay_Schnell" target="_blank

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:12 am

tucsonsean wrote:It has probably been said before. I don't lurk or participate like I used to.

What if Miller is involved in the FBI investigation? He may not be able to say anything right now. That's my best guess amongst all this, especially Miller's "vindication" statement. He may not be ABLE to say anything right now as the FBI continues its investigation and he plays whatever role he is playing in it.

Something just doesn't add up to me in all this. My "crazy" speculation is maybe Miller was asked by the FBI to play a role if Dawkins called him. So the wiretaps? Sure they have him saying something. What Dawkins attorney does not know is that Miller was playing state's witness.

That may certainly be a possibility, especially since Miller has said he is confident he will be "vindicated." If he knew he had spoken to Dawkins about Ayton or another player, and knew there was a likelihood it was captured on tape by the FBI, why would he publicly profess innocence rather than stay quiet like he has so many other times? There is probably more to his story. We live in an era where people are immediately ruined and given a public verdict without being afforded an opportunity to mount a reasonable defense and let investigations come to their natural conclusion. Miller is ruined, even if there is an explanation for why he may have been on a FBI tape, such as coopering with the FBI. Even if he is ultimately "vindicated," his days at Arizona are numbered.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:20 am

3goggles wrote: Well ESPN is making us look better and better with there shitty reporting

ESPN is no different than all the other cable news networks; they want a sensationalistic story and scandal to report on. Their sports broadcasters sit around and play the speculation game, salivating at worst-case scenarios, hopeful more dirt will surface to perpetuate the story. What better story is there than a major college basketball program, not named Duke, having a major scandal with a player suspended for doping allegations, a major recruit decommitting, an assistant coach arrested by the FBI, allegations of players taking money from agents, and a head coach allegedly caught on an FBI wiretap soliciting money? Make no mistake, ESPN LOVES this story.

CatMG · Post by **CatMG** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:21 am

midnightx wrote:
tucsonsean wrote:It has probably been said before. I don't lurk or participate like I used to.

What if Miller is involved in the FBI investigation? He may not be able to say anything right now. That's my best guess amongst all this, especially Miller's "vindication" statement. He may not be ABLE to say anything right now as the FBI continues its investigation and he plays whatever role he is playing in it.

Something just doesn't add up to me in all this. My "crazy" speculation is maybe Miller was asked by the FBI to play a role if Dawkins called him. So the wiretaps? Sure they have him saying something. What Dawkins attorney does not know is that Miller was playing state's witness.
That may certainly be a possibility, especially since Miller has said he is confident he will be "vindicated." If he knew he had spoken to Dawkins about Ayton or another player, and knew there was a likelihood it was captured on tape by the FBI, why would he publicly profess innocence rather than stay quiet like he has so many other times? There is probably more to his story. We live in an era where people are immediately ruined and given a public verdict without being afforded an opportunity to mount a reasonable defense and let investigations come to their natural conclusion. Miller is ruined, even if there is an explanation for why he may have been on a FBI tape, such as coopering with the FBI. Even if he is ultimately "vindicated," his days at Arizona are numbered.

This. If he is on tape saying this, and he knows this out there why would he even bother fighting it? And if he is on tape soliciting $100K, why wasn't he included in the FBI charges?

CatHoops · Post by **CatHoops** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:35 am

I would think Miller is done for this year unless he has a he'll if a story. Ayton on the other hand should be cleared for two people using his name. No kid should endure wheat he got last night. Glad that was our last away game home games and neutral floors rest of the way. Get trier back unite together and make some tournament noise

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:36 am

CatMG wrote:
midnightx wrote:
tucsonsean wrote:It has probably been said before. I don't lurk or participate like I used to.

What if Miller is involved in the FBI investigation? He may not be able to say anything right now. That's my best guess amongst all this, especially Miller's "vindication" statement. He may not be ABLE to say anything right now as the FBI continues its investigation and he plays whatever role he is playing in it.

Something just doesn't add up to me in all this. My "crazy" speculation is maybe Miller was asked by the FBI to play a role if Dawkins called him. So the wiretaps? Sure they have him saying something. What Dawkins attorney does not know is that Miller was playing state's witness.
That may certainly be a possibility, especially since Miller has said he is confident he will be "vindicated." If he knew he had spoken to Dawkins about Ayton or another player, and knew there was a likelihood it was captured on tape by the FBI, why would he publicly profess innocence rather than stay quiet like he has so many other times? There is probably more to his story. We live in an era where people are immediately ruined and given a public verdict without being afforded an opportunity to mount a reasonable defense and let investigations come to their natural conclusion. Miller is ruined, even if there is an explanation for why he may have been on a FBI tape, such as coopering with the FBI. Even if he is ultimately "vindicated," his days at Arizona are numbered.
This. If he is on tape saying this, and he knows this out there why would he even bother fighting it? And if he is on tape soliciting $100K, why wasn't he included in the FBI charges?

The other option to Millers vindication here is that he knows there is proof everyone else is doing it...I know that might not meet the technical term for vindication but if it is a systemic issue then it's not exactly an isolated individual issue...vindication via mass guilt, ie "Everyone is guilty shut the fuck up"

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:10 am

PHXCATS wrote:
NYCat wrote:Can't imagine Miller fighting back unless he's delusional and stupid, otherwise must be confident enough to fight and be vindicated even if his reputation is shot. But I just can't see how I can't see how discussing $100k to secure Ayton's commitment could be misinterpreted. Miller discussed it but never took the money? Miller took the money and pocketed it? Dawkins offered a $100k bribe to Miller to get Ayton to sign with ASM? $100k to keep Ayton from going playing overseas? Miller was working with the FBI and that's why he told Dawkins to deal with Miller not Book on money issues/set-up?

Unfortunately I think it might be $100k to keep Ayton from going overseas. Think Jerry Meyer said repeatedly before Ayton's commitment that he would never play college hoops. The ESPN article said this call supposedly happened after Ayton already had committed and this money would be needed to keep him from going overseas.
If the bold is true which timing wise it could be ESPN could be done for

Could be who knows. That is what the original FBI probe was about right, steering kids to financial advisors, agents with bribe money to the asst coaches. But I doubt thats true unless the whole ESPN report is completely wrong, because it says they discussed $100k to secure Ayton's commitment, of course that's giving ESPN and it's reporter the benefit of the doubt.

Below is pretty much the whole report, the rest is filler.

FBI wiretaps intercepted telephone conversations between Arizona coach Sean Miller and Christian Dawkins, a key figure in the FBI's investigation into college basketball corruption, in which Miller discussed paying $100,000 to ensure star freshman Deandre Ayton signed with the Wildcats, sources familiar with the government's evidence told ESPN.

According to people with knowledge of the FBI investigation, Miller and Dawkins, a runner working for ASM Sports agent Andy Miller, had multiple conversations about Ayton. When Dawkins asked Sean Miller if he should work with assistant coach Emanuel "Book" Richardson to finalize their agreement, Miller told Dawkins he should deal directly with him when it came to money, the sources said.

Now there's a couple of ways Schlabach could've been made aware of the wiretap leaked from Dawkins' lawyer.

A) someone played him the tape and he heard it
B) he read a transcript
C) someone read to him a transcript
D) the leaker described (vaguely) the wiretap and mentioned Miller, Dawkins discussing $100k to secure Ayton - but left out to sign with ASM not Arizona

If it's any one but D) it's bad for Miller no matter what, if it is D) it's massive malpractice by ESPN. Although it doesn't explain Miller saying to deal with him not his assistants with money issues, at least I can't come up with one.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:19 am

Question: if Miller is clean, how come former players and associates aren’t coming out publicly to support him, maybe just via Twitter?

His current and former players absolutely know if the program is dirty. So it would be nice to hear from TJ or AG or SJ or anyone who’s had a fruitful relationship with AZ hoops during Miller’s tenure.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:26 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Question: if Miller is clean, how come former players and associates aren’t coming out publicly to support him, maybe just via Twitter?

His current and former players absolutely know if the program is dirty. So it would be nice to hear from TJ or AG or SJ or anyone who’s had a fruitful relationship with AZ hoops during Miller’s tenure.

Not sure that makes any difference or is indicative of Miller being dirty. Two of those guys only played one year and as in many instances people just don't want to involve themselves in anything that could be detrimental to their own lives/careers.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:28 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Question: if Miller is clean, how come former players and associates aren’t coming out publicly to support him, maybe just via Twitter?

His current and former players absolutely know if the program is dirty. So it would be nice to hear from TJ or AG or SJ or anyone who’s had a fruitful relationship with AZ hoops during Miller’s tenure.

SJ pushed back on Trey Mason's tweet.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 am

Cannot possibly be A)...

Reason: THAT is sealed evidence not available if a lawyer is allowing a news agency to listen to wiretaps they are done lawyering...they are headed to jail themselves, it would be like taking a hit off of pot in the evidence locker.

B) pretty close to A) but possibly available since the lawyers would have a copy of the actual transcripts, but again not likely since that would require either "Emailing/faxing/snail mail" of actual court evidence which would land fairly close to the evidence locker issue as well...no smart lawyer would leave a paper trail when leaking evidence that is considered a felony...so barely possible.

C) Quite possible but again, if you are a lawyer LEAKING sealed court evidence to a KNOWN news agency the chances YOUR conversation is being taped are pretty damn high...so this is still possible but not likely if you want to keep your job.

D) Most probable out of all...the evidence reads like a paraphrase anyway...it does not read like redacted info leaked...this falls into enough vagueness that any lawyer leaking could say "I have no idea maybe they overheard something in the background" and there owuld be no paper trail or enough evidence to have then disbarred.

So ask yourself WHY SEAN MILLER?

Why leak this particular evidence with vagueness?

At this point in the game Dawkins lawyer has only one or two cards to play, one get the other defendants to turn on the coaches and join Dawkins team (plea deal with feds) OR a campaign of public support by naming high profile individuals in such a way as to create sympathy for his client, or possibly contaminate the jury pool hoping for a mistrial.

This leak does all three.

It doesn't even have to be true evidence, i could be complete bullshit, but since t is a leak there is no way to trace it back.

It's a no brainer move played by a high profile defense attorney.

It's actually kind of brilliant since Dawkins is going to jail no matter what the evidence against him is insurmountable...you have to play the legal corners here the other parts are unwinnable.

phxcat23 · Post by **phxcat23** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:37 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Question: if Miller is clean, how come former players and associates aren’t coming out publicly to support him, maybe just via Twitter?

His current and former players absolutely know if the program is dirty. So it would be nice to hear from TJ or AG or SJ or anyone who’s had a fruitful relationship with AZ hoops during Miller’s tenure.

Well as stated in previous posts when the investigation first happened, it was mentioned that we were doing this stuff, just a lot better than other programs. Therefore, I’m sure players/families were getting paid but just not as obvious and probably not dealin directly with CSM. That may be why players aren’t defending him, but I feel Miller would never directly be involved with doing the deals...at least not discussing it over the phone.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:37 am

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:40 am

Where not going to here this wirtap until after October 1st

NYCat wrote:2019???

Can Miller & Arizona hold out that long if he's going to be vindicated?

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:41 am

Arizona Daily Star is basically disavowing Hansen's article calling for Miller to be fired:

"CORRECTION: Greg Hansen's column on page B-1 on Saturday "Arizona's program has gone way out of bounds: Miller must go" should have read that coach Sean Miller was implicated in an FBI wiretap. Miller has not been accused of any wrongdoing".

UA lawyers busy at work?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:42 am

BBQ wildcat wrote:Arizona Daily Star is basically disavowing Hansen's article calling for Miller to be fired:

"CORRECTION: Greg Hansen's column on page B-1 on Saturday "Arizona's program has gone way out of bounds: Miller must go" should have read that coach Sean Miller was implicated in an FBI wiretap. Miller has not been accused of any wrongdoing".

UA lawyers busy at work?

Holy backtrack Batman!

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:43 am

After piling on Miller all morning Finley posted this:

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:46 am

UAEebs86 wrote:After piling on Miller all morning Finley posted this:

It's embarrassing how Finley, Hansen, and his crew have been flaunting their boners everywhere since this all started.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 am

You got a link to that correction?

CatMG · Post by **CatMG** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:51 am

NYCat wrote:Where not going to here this wirtap until after October 1st

NYCat wrote:2019???

Can Miller & Arizona hold out that long if he's going to be vindicated?

I noticed in that Tweet, a name was missing. If Miller is on wiretap apparently committing a crime, why isn't he included?

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:57 am

UAEebs86 wrote:After piling on Miller all morning Finley posted this:

What evidence do we have that Millers lawyers are not drawing up a case right now?

Here's what we know...Millers lawyer needs to work with the UA legal team they need to protect him but do not want to get into an adversarial role against the Uni (yet that we know of)...the UA legal team has turned everything over to the special legal team they hired to do the internal investigation...the internal investigation was told to hold off by the FBI...

Everything is dependant on the FBI investigation which apparently is in no hurry...

I suspect the leak this week was intentional by Dawkins lawyer because they know they can't win and want the case to move forward...the best way to do that is throw some piss and poop on the fire and smell up the camping trip...the FBI will HAVE to get come back from their fishing expedition to deal with all the smell...

Millers lawyers are last in line, even with ESPN...if he is under a NDA or instructions from the Feds there isn't a lot his team can do right now...except advise him that he will be vindicated.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:58 am

CatMG wrote:
NYCat wrote:Where not going to here this wirtap until after October 1st

NYCat wrote:2019???

Can Miller & Arizona hold out that long if he's going to be vindicated?
I noticed in that Tweet, a name was missing. If Miller is on wiretap apparently committing a crime, why isn't he included?

Talking about paying to get a player is not a federal crime its an NCAA violation. The Feds cannot enforce NCAA rules only federal ones.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:00 am

CatFanOneMil wrote:
CatMG wrote:
NYCat wrote:Where not going to here this wirtap until after October 1st

NYCat wrote:2019???

Can Miller & Arizona hold out that long if he's going to be vindicated?
I noticed in that Tweet, a name was missing. If Miller is on wiretap apparently committing a crime, why isn't he included?
Talking about paying to get a player is not a federal crime its an NCAA violation. The Feds cannot enforce NCAA rules only federal ones.

Agree, talking about it is not a crime but is probably an NCAA violation. But if money did change hands, they could probably get him and/or Ayton's family on some kind of tax evasion charges.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:18 am

Olsondogg wrote:You got a link to that correction?

Tried to find it, but can't online. It was in the printed paper. I can get a pic and post it if you want.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:21 am

UAEebs86 wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:
CatMG wrote:
NYCat wrote:Where not going to here this wirtap until after October 1st

NYCat wrote:2019???

Can Miller & Arizona hold out that long if he's going to be vindicated?
I noticed in that Tweet, a name was missing. If Miller is on wiretap apparently committing a crime, why isn't he included?
Talking about paying to get a player is not a federal crime its an NCAA violation. The Feds cannot enforce NCAA rules only federal ones.

Agree, talking about it is not a crime but is probably an NCAA violation. But if money did change hands, they could probably get him and/or Ayton's family on some kind of tax evasion charges.

Since they have not charged Miller or Aytons family has never been named in the FBI indictment the real possibility exists that there is no evidence that any money changed hands.

They HAVE DAWKINS financial records, they would HAVE PROOF of Miller sending/receiving $ to Dawkins...he would have been indicted by now.

I think the best move by anyone has been by Aytons family lawyering up...they are not under DNA as far as we can tell and the fact that Ayton told the FBI he was never approached by Miller or shoe companys or agents means that they have already investigated the wiretap leak and found no evidence to support it.

Remember Ayton said he spoke to the FBI last year...do you really think they are going to talk to a kid without his parents present or at least advise him of his rights?

Here's what I think happened...

I think Book screwed Dawkins...book took the money and probably blew it in Vegas...at least some of it...Dawkins got pissed and went to Miller...

Miller takes a phone call from Dawkins who is playing loose and wild with the facts because he has to keep selling ASM product to stay in the good life...

Miller tells him ALL MONEY needs to go through me...because, well he's the head coach...if he was not paying to get Ayton as Aytons family claims, then Miller smells a fish and wants to control the direction things go...its not like he can just say "Fuck off" if Dawkins has dirt on Book...Miller needs to keep him on the line until he can find out wtf is going on...this conversation is taped, but technically (and even by NCAA rules) Miller has done nothing wrong...

So far the majority of the leaked information has proven to be a big nothing burger, more smoke than fire...I watch Larry K from Utak basically tell espn to FUCK OFF we did nothing wrong, and there is no way I do not believe him, he is about as straight a shooter as you are going to get, so all this money to players is being sold to us the viewers in a complete false context...did Kuzma get money? Probably but not under Utahs watch and not in violation of NCAA rules as far as I can tell...

The agents are the real criminals here, they are exploiting the system behind the coaches back and jeopardizing programs by exploiting young athletes with money under the table...and as much as I hate the NCAA the way this has developed is not exactly something they could have controlled...30 years ago no one knew the shoe companies would be the biggest money machines in college sports...if you told me in 1977 that shoe companies would be making BILLIONS off of basketball shoes I would have told you STFU...

There are multiple ways Miller could be innocent here...why not give him the benefit of the doubt until the gavale ends this?

jajoyce · Post by **jajoyce** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:25 am

Does anybody really think Miller is innocent in all this? 97 mentioned in the fall that this happens everywhere, we as fans, just thought Book took the fall due to his stupidity. I think it does happen everywhere. I also think it happened with previous players whether it be recent or as far back with Josiah Turner.

We can shit all over ESPN all we want, but if this was Duke or Kansas we would all be saying I told you so or I knew something was up. I don’t hate ESPN, I hate their talking heads standing on a pedestal.

Money laundering/fraud/tax evasion happens in big money business’. Whether it’s funneling money into other business or through 501(c)3 labeld as some Christian funds then changes hands multiple times before it gets to where it needs to go.

Edit: not trying to be an asshole or argumentative.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:28 am

I will say 2 things I believe to be true.

1. We paid for recruits
2. There is no way Miller was saying what is alleged on wiretap. He isn’t that stupid.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:30 am

So then, if Miller is on the tapes saying what is alleged he’s not only the dumbest coach in the world, he’s also even more stupid to fight it.

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:33 am

Olsondogg wrote:I will say 2 things I believe to be true.

1. We paid for recruits
2. There is no way Miller was saying what is alleged on wiretap. He isn’t that stupid.

This has been a running theme between my father and I as well. I just wish Miller could come out guns blazing but because number 1 is likely true, he can't do that on 2 as aggressively maybe.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:34 am

jajoyce wrote:Does anybody really think Miller is innocent in all this? 97 mentioned in the fall that this happens everywhere, we as fans, just thought Book took the fall due to his stupidity. I think it does happen everywhere. I also think it happened with previous players whether it be recent or as far back with Josiah Turner.

We can shit all over ESPN all we want, but if this was Duke or Kansas we would all be saying I told you so or I knew something was up. I don’t hate ESPN, I hate their talking heads standing on a pedestal.

Money laundering/fraud/tax evasion happens in big money business’. Whether it’s funneling money into other business or through 501(c)3 labeld as some Christian funds then changes hands multiple times before it gets to where it needs to go.

Edit: not trying to be an asshole or argumentative.

I'm honestly not that cynical...I do think it has been going on but I do not think it is systemic with COACHES...

Think about ow often they change schools...if it is systemic with coaches then each coach would have the same top ten talent regardless of the school they coached at because the funnel is not connected to a university it is connected to the agents...but we see that is not the case.

I think its a small percentage, I think SOME coaches are in on it...but I think it is mostly the shoe companys, clothing/game companys etc working through runners/agents/player reps/etc...

Those guys only have to worry about federal laws, and there are a ton of ways to embellish financial records to avoid jail, these guys do not give a fuck about NCAA rules except where it might affect one of their prospects chances...

They are professional rule benders...

So no I don't have to believe that Miller si dirty to believe that recruits were paid...there are a lot of people around these recruits...and most of them are feeding them a line of bullshit and bling...

The data for corruption would probably be a lot lower than the media exposure wants us to think...context is completely missing in all of this...

Text without context might just be con...

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:39 am

Olsondogg wrote:I will say 2 things I believe to be true.

1. We paid for recruits
2. There is no way Miller was saying what is alleged on wiretap. He isn’t that stupid.

This.

Anyone with any other argument contrary to this is dense.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:40 am

Olsondogg wrote:So then, if Miller is on the tapes saying what is alleged he’s not only the dumbest coach in the world, he’s also even more stupid to fight it.

Also this. Fighting this if he's knowingly guilty only makes this worse for him.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:43 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:So then, if Miller is on the tapes saying what is alleged he’s not only the dumbest coach in the world, he’s also even more stupid to fight it.
Also this. Fighting this if he's knowingly guilty only makes this worse for him.

I think we need to remember that lawyers are involved here.........I'm sure his lawyer is telling him to deny everything and use terms like "vindicated"

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:46 am

Olsondogg wrote:I will say 2 things I believe to be true.

1. We paid for recruits
2. There is no way Miller was saying what is alleged on wiretap. He isn’t that stupid.

I believe #1 is the case, and is also widespread, even for the more prominent mid-majors.

But I stop there. We don't know anything else. And I think it's kind of dumb that people in the sports media are reaching such strongly stated conclusions based on a story broken by a sports network.

I'm pretty sure there are people on this board who know what a news report looks like. It's detailed and specific. It protects its unnamed sources while clarifying the nature of the leak and the evidence and showing the evidence. I thought the piece that broke Friday night was a prelude, but literally no elaboration whatsoever has followed. I have no doubt that the ABOR is noting these oddities. ESPN is showing every indication that they're in over their heads, and somebody needs to answer why ESPN, and not an actual news outlet, broke this "story."

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:48 am

BBQ wildcat wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:You got a link to that correction?
Tried to find it, but can't online. It was in the printed paper. I can get a pic and post it if you want.

Well, isn't that convenient? They put it in the paper no one reads anymore, but not online, and then they can claim they retracted it.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:50 am

UAEebs86 wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:
CatMG wrote:
NYCat wrote:Where not going to here this wirtap until after October 1st

NYCat wrote:2019???

Can Miller & Arizona hold out that long if he's going to be vindicated?
I noticed in that Tweet, a name was missing. If Miller is on wiretap apparently committing a crime, why isn't he included?
Talking about paying to get a player is not a federal crime its an NCAA violation. The Feds cannot enforce NCAA rules only federal ones.

Agree, talking about it is not a crime but is probably an NCAA violation. But if money did change hands, they could probably get him and/or Ayton's family on some kind of tax evasion charges.

My thought is that this could be construed as conspiracy to commit fraud against a state university. I think it is a crime to conspire even if you don't do the deed.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:51 am

phxcat23 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Question: if Miller is clean, how come former players and associates aren’t coming out publicly to support him, maybe just via Twitter?

His current and former players absolutely know if the program is dirty. So it would be nice to hear from TJ or AG or SJ or anyone who’s had a fruitful relationship with AZ hoops during Miller’s tenure.
Well as stated in previous posts when the investigation first happened, it was mentioned that we were doing this stuff, just a lot better than other programs. Therefore, I’m sure players/families were getting paid but just not as obvious and probably not dealin directly with CSM. That may be why players aren’t defending him, but I feel Miller would never directly be involved with doing the deals...at least not discussing it over the phone.

This all makes sense. But come on: the entire college hoops world is walking up Miller’s driveway with torches and pitchforks. They are coming for him, and it’s ugly. If our former players felt connected to him and the program, in ways many players feel connected to Lute, they’d be speaking up. The silence concerns me. But maybe a non-issue.

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:52 am

Longhorned wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:I will say 2 things I believe to be true.

1. We paid for recruits
2. There is no way Miller was saying what is alleged on wiretap. He isn’t that stupid.
I believe #1 is the case, and is also widespread, even for the more prominent mid-majors.

But I stop there. We don't know anything else. And I think it's kind of dumb that people in the sports media are reaching such strongly stated conclusions based on a story broken by a sports network.

I'm pretty sure there are people on this board who know what a news report looks like. It's detailed and specific. It protects its unnamed sources while clarifying the nature of the leak and the evidence and showing the evidence. I thought the piece that broke Friday night was a prelude, but literally no elaboration whatsoever has followed. I have no doubt that the ABOR is noting these oddities. ESPN is showing every indication that they're in over their heads, and somebody needs to answer why ESPN, and not an actual news outlet, broke this "story."

LH - Would you say that this is potentially a lawsuit situation? I mean, it seems like it could have been incredibly mishandled & has done an immeasurable amount of damage. And not only to Sean Miller.

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:59 am

So this case is a full year out, any chance Miller sits out a year til he can talk/be vindicated (assuming he is under an nda and is complying with the fbi) and this is why he brought in Romar? A guy he can trust, good recruiter, serviceable head coach, people like him..... and then when the dust settles he has the option to come back. I mean is there a possibility that Miller's involvement with this goes back to the days of Book/Ace (PGU)? Well, he's either telling the truth or a sociopath.

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:03 pm

U.P. Zona Fan wrote:So this case is a full year out, any chance Miller sits out a year til he can talk/be vindicated (assuming he is under an nda and is complying with the fbi) and this is why he brought in Romar? A guy he can trust, good recruiter, serviceable head coach, people like him..... and then when the dust settles he has the option to come back. I mean is there a possibility that Miller's involvement with this goes back to the days of Book/Ace (PGU)? Well, he's either telling the truth or a sociopath.

Some of the people in the know are saying Miller & UofA are done at the end of this season, if not sooner. But for a lot of reasons, not just this. More on his end even.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:08 pm

U.P. Zona Fan wrote:So this case is a full year out, any chance Miller sits out a year til he can talk/be vindicated (assuming he is under an nda and is complying with the fbi) and this is why he brought in Romar? A guy he can trust, good recruiter, serviceable head coach, people like him..... and then when the dust settles he has the option to come back. I mean is there a possibility that Miller's involvement with this goes back to the days of Book/Ace (PGU)? Well, he's either telling the truth or a sociopath.

This is possible but I would have to gravitate towards extremely improbable. I think Miller will be placed on paid administrative leave and Romar is our coach for the rest of the season. I think this will happen either tomorrow or early in the week. Even if Miller isn't fired I think he and the U of A will part ways in the best interests of both parties. At this point it actually might be the best scenario so the program can plan its future and move on. Whether Miller is guilty or not his reputation has already been irreparably damaged.

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