Bear Down Wildcats

CalStateTempe wrote:It’s happening folks, this is really happening

What? You can't just say that...

I’m just digging the support coming out today that’s all.

For sure get Simmons on the line.

The ESPN article is so poorly worded as to allow any spin. Doesn't this interchange cover all the bases per the article:

Dawkins: "Coach, how do I do the do Book and I cooked up, it's time to finalize?"

Miller: "The fuck you jacking your jaw about? Stay the fuck away from Book, motherfucker, I'm the head coach so direct your bullshit to me. Take your 100 and shove it. How's that for finalization?"

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:Spaceman always asking the thought provoking questions. Greatly appreciate your contributions my friend

Thank you.

Here's one last question provoked by Iggy:

The FBI was obviously not shy in charging coaches who participated in conspiracies to land players. They have the wire of Miller, yet don't charge him (like Book) or even identify the incident in the complaint.

It's not like you'd think the FBI would cover for Miller. So if he isn't included, and the incident isn't either, what was the reason? On its face, you'd assume (like Iguodala) that Miller would have been in cuffs if this were true, or at the very least, tied to the consipracy even if not charged.

I'm such a homer and probably get too many boners from conspiracy theories; however, I find it interesting that based on the email transcripts that state that UA coaches weren't initially down to play ball, and then were suddenly apologetic leads my imagination to think that perhaps CSM was indeed a cooperating witness hence.

CalStateTempe wrote:It would not be surprising to have ESPN get the purpose of the payment incorrect.

Maybe they’d like to issue a third correction.

If they do that then ESPN loses tens of Millions of dollars in lawsuits.

But that is where I would put my bet on this now.

Dawkins offered to pay Miller the 100k to try to get Ayton to the ASM team. This works no matter if the call is 2016 or 2017 and even before or after Ayton commits to UA. ESPN reports it the wrong way. And it makes sense if Miller was aware of the FBI before that he would direct money to him and not book. And it makes sense if Miller had worries about Book but before he knew about the FBI into Book that he would want things to run through him. And Miller isnt dumb so he isnt offering money himself.

I dont think there has ever been a better time to throw on my Sean Miller for President TShirt.

Doug Gotlieb has caught wind

Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

They only way it makes sense is the following:

The FBI tipped Miller that Book was under investigation for accepting money from agents to direct players.

Ayton signed with Arizona

Dawkins and Miller talk about the scheme. Directed by the FBI or not, Miller tells Dawkins “all money comes through me.” Meaning, if you want to give the staff money for favorable treatment, don’t give it to Book.

Arrests made, not including Miller because no evidence supports his wrongdoing.

After months, Dawkins’ attorney peddles a story to Yahoo/ESPN that the wiretap includes Miller speaking to Dawkins about money. No outlet runs with it but Schlabach and ESPN. Whether Dawkins lied or ESPN implied that the money was from Miller to Ayton, ESPN just didnt verify.

That’s why Yahoo, who has been in the weeds with the story and ran only credible info, didnt report it.

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:Spaceman always asking the thought provoking questions. Greatly appreciate your contributions my friend

Thank you.

Here's one last question provoked by Iggy:

The FBI was obviously not shy in charging coaches who participated in conspiracies to land players. They have the wire of Miller, yet don't charge him (like Book) or even identify the incident in the complaint.

It's not like you'd think the FBI would cover for Miller. So if he isn't included, and the incident isn't either, what was the reason? On its face, you'd assume (like Iguodala) that Miller would have been in cuffs if this were true, or at the very least, tied to the consipracy even if not charged.

I'm such a homer and probably get too many boners from conspiracy theories; however, I find it interesting that based on the email transcripts that state that UA coaches weren't initially down to play ball, and then were suddenly apologetic leads my imagination to think that perhaps CSM was indeed a cooperating witness hence.

My opinions are all speculation.

I have a hard time buying Miller as a cooperator. If the FBI had a wire on the ASM people, they didn't need a cooperator at that point. They had independent confirmation of all call content, so Miller doesn't really add anything.

I have other reasons, but they're not message board stuff.

I have an easier time believing Miller's conversation is intentionally not mentioned in the complaint because there is a lack of direct proof in comparison to the other solicitations that are mentioned. There's a lot of ways to discuss something like that and not all of them are actionable.

A lot of the complaint does hint that in 2017, ASM was just building a relationship with Arizona. The Ayton offer is high level enough that you think it didn't actually go down if they were still building a year later.

Or I'm wrong.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

I find that to be odd as well. I mean, why would this source just limit the scope to one outlet? Yahoo had several documents that are important to the case. You would have to believe that they had some sort of information similar to that of ESPN.

Unless the leak knew that ESPN would be quick to the trigger... My mind is about to explode

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:It would not be surprising to have ESPN get the purpose of the payment incorrect.

Maybe they’d like to issue a third correction.

If they do that then ESPN loses tens of Millions of dollars in lawsuits.

But that is where I would put my bet on this now.

Dawkins offered to pay Miller the 100k to try to get Ayton to the ASM team. This works no matter if the call is 2016 or 2017 and even before or after Ayton commits to UA. ESPN reports it the wrong way. And it makes sense if Miller was aware of the FBI before that he would direct money to him and not book. And it makes sense if Miller had worries about Book but before he knew about the FBI into Book that he would want things to run through him. And Miller isnt dumb so he isnt offering money himself.

Ayton is going to be the #1 pick in the draft. He can sign with any top notch agent he chooses and will make millions. You think 100,000 is going to get him to sign with some no name 27 year old? And why would Miller get involved? Once Ayton is on the team, it doesn't benefit Miller one way or another... a $100,000 to risk his career?

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

I find that to be odd as well. I mean, why would this source just limit the scope to one outlet? Yahoo had several documents that are important to the case. You would have to believe that they had some sort of information similar to that of ESPN.

Unless the leak knew that ESPN would be quick to the trigger... My mind is about to explode

Who knows if Fox or CBS or Yahoo also got the same thing ESPN got when they ran with it.

The rush to be first isnt always worth it

Because they don't get info from Dawkins trash ass

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

The Yahoo story has been verified and it seems ESPN has not done their due diligence. Not to mention, Jeff Goodman seems to be quiet on the subject.

SabinoDrifter wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

The Yahoo story has been verified and it seems ESPN has not done their due diligence. Not to mention, Jeff Goodman seems to be quiet on the subject.

Jeff Goodman is too busy with the real basketball story of the year over in Lithuania.

Alieberman wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:It would not be surprising to have ESPN get the purpose of the payment incorrect.

Maybe they’d like to issue a third correction.

If they do that then ESPN loses tens of Millions of dollars in lawsuits.

But that is where I would put my bet on this now.

Dawkins offered to pay Miller the 100k to try to get Ayton to the ASM team. This works no matter if the call is 2016 or 2017 and even before or after Ayton commits to UA. ESPN reports it the wrong way. And it makes sense if Miller was aware of the FBI before that he would direct money to him and not book. And it makes sense if Miller had worries about Book but before he knew about the FBI into Book that he would want things to run through him. And Miller isnt dumb so he isnt offering money himself.

Ayton is going to be the #1 pick in the draft. He can sign with any top notch agent he chooses and will make millions. You think 100,000 is going to get him to sign with some no name 27 year old? And why would Miller get involved? Once Ayton is on the team, it doesn't benefit Miller one way or another... a $100,000 to risk his career?

ASM was doing that with a lot of prospects though. See the $43,500 to Dennis Smith Jr. DSJ is worth more than that, but ASM seems to have been dropping low level speculative amounts on a lot of guys.

Like $1,000 on Jaron Blossongame? Tim Quarterman? They were spreading it around.

SabinoDrifter wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

The Yahoo story has been verified and it seems ESPN has not done their due diligence. Not to mention, Jeff Goodman seems to be quiet on the subject.

To be honest, with the exception of Schalbach, Vitale & Bilas early - it's hard to find anyone right now who isn't being quiet on the subject. USA Today ran an editorial piece. SI did a decent piece that pretty much said there are too many holes. Of course Greg Hansen has been enjoying the doom & gloom, but even he's been quiet since midday yesterday.

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

SabinoDrifter wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

The Yahoo story has been verified and it seems ESPN has not done their due diligence. Not to mention, Jeff Goodman seems to be quiet on the subject.

To be honest, with the exception of Schalbach, Vitale & Bilas early - it's hard to find anyone right now who isn't being quiet on the subject. USA Today ran an editorial piece. SI did a decent piece that pretty much said there are too many holes. Of course Greg Hansen has been enjoying the doom & gloom, but even he's been quiet since midday yesterday.

My point is I would trust it coming from Goodman over Schlabach, who is CFB reporter and not really an investigative reporter.

NYCat wrote:

This tweet, along with the complete silence on this story from the media in the last 16+ hours, makes me think there is serious digging going on right now.

In the words of a once great thread at GOAZCATS...

STAY TUNED....

The Reddit link yields great stuff.

Just thought you all should know that I am foaming at the mouth.

Could it be the legal team at UofA has made some calls to Bristol and are ready for war

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

SabinoDrifter wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Here's another question to go on the pile...

Yahoo obviously has plenty of the same information (and maybe even more), there is a high probability here that they have the wiretap transcript or at least hints of it, yet they did not run with the Sean Miller/buy Ayton angle AT ALL...

Why is that?

The Yahoo story has been verified and it seems ESPN has not done their due diligence. Not to mention, Jeff Goodman seems to be quiet on the subject.

To be honest, with the exception of Schalbach, Vitale & Bilas early - it's hard to find anyone right now who isn't being quiet on the subject. USA Today ran an editorial piece. SI did a decent piece that pretty much said there are too many holes. Of course Greg Hansen has been enjoying the doom & gloom, but even he's been quiet since midday yesterday.

It's being talked about amongst media members apparently

We know from this weekend that Ayton was questioned by the FBI (and others)...

So there is substance that a wiretap included his name...

The timelines of the wiretap and his commitment do not add up...So its very possible Dawkins was bullshitting on the wiretap, with or without MIller.

So what are the options here?

Miller and Dawkins spoke, but not about Aytons initial commitment but instead about steering him to the agency...in this context Miller saying "All money goes through me" is about HIM getting 100K...

Now step back from that...that would mean that when the FBI interviews Ayton the question would not be "Did you get any money" it would be "Did your coach offer you/pressure you an agent?"

That does not seem to be the context of any of the legal responses at all...I'm ruling it out.

Aytons lawyer made it clear he was not offered money by anyone...the context is procuring his commitment to play for UA, besides failing the eye test ot also fails the timeline test.

At this point I'm calling bullshit on the convo being Miller getting Ayton to go with Dawkins as agent, especially since the line of questioning has not suggested that.

So we are left with a wiretap AFTER Ayton commits that has Miller saying the money goes through me motherfucker.

It is not criminal and it is not a violation of NCAA rules...it is vindicatable.

I wonder if Gottlieb will talk about it on his radio show today?

This just reeks of a news outlet getting their shit pounded in by Yahoo, and a throwaway reporter (not on a beat of importance where he is the #1) getting just enough information that is probably right to trump Yahoo's spreadsheets and emails. You can see Schlabach's wheels turning...this is the big fish, and from the mouth of the beast (Dawkins/Attorney). Book is already indicted...you know this has to be true, right? I mean...no 2nd source corroboration, no physical evidence that can be heard for months...but my gut is this is good. How could it be wrong? Let's go!

And maybe it is right...in some way. Bowen, not Ayton. They sound the same. Whatever. Or maybe it is partially right...Miller directed Dawkins from Book to him because he knew Book would take the money. You can't just piss off Andy Miller and, by extension, Christian Dawkins and keep getting top players. So you talk. And jabber. And nothing happens, because you took the conversation off that path.

If you stroked him and talked about the payment that you wouldn't arrange...you are busted. Sloppy. No way to say "I didn't mean it."

If you were fully willing to pay for Bowen, or Jackson, or whatever, and that is what was talked about...you are busted.

If you took the call to divert anything having to do with direct discussion of payments from Book, and did not say anything, and it is clear no payment was made, and you never discussed doing such a thing? Partial vindication...maybe enough. The world will still talk about why you were talking with such scum, not understanding a little dirty is required.

If the call never happened? Lawsuits.

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:

This tweet, along with the complete silence on this story from the media in the last 16+ hours, makes me think there is serious digging going on right now.

In the words of a once great thread at GOAZCATS...

STAY TUNED....

The quicker the resolution, the worse it is for Miller and Arizona. The more it extends, the more most reasonable people would think there are issues in what looked like a open and shut thing.

Olsondogg wrote:Just thought you all should know that I am foaming at the mouth.

As an I Odogg.

After a weekend of processing. I am more pissed now then when the story broke because it is becoming increasingly clear that Arizona and Miller we done severely and terribly wrong. Especially when the ESPN talking heads decided to pile on.

The joe peschi corn field scene in casino would be too kind for schlabach and the rest at ESPN.m

Edit: yes spiff, ESPN tried to bury Arizona’s corpse, the more this is talked about the more we win over joe fan (which needs to happen given the hit Miller took) and have Miller coaching Arizona on the way to this years national chipper.

The longer Schlabach and ESPN sit quiet without addressing the holes in that story, the more it feels like they got played into making an accusation that’s either lacking any kind of real evidence, or is flat out false.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Just thought you all should know that I am foaming at the mouth.

As an I Odogg.

After a weekend of processing. I am more pissed now then when the story broke because it is becoming increasingly clear that Arizona and Miller we done severely and terribly wrong. Especially when the ESPN talking heads decided to pile on.

The joe peschi corn field scene in casino would be too kind for schlabach and the rest at ESPN.m

Edit: yes spiff, ESPN tried to bury Arizona’s corpse, the more this is talked about the more we win over joe fan (which needs to happen given the hit Miller took) and have Miller coaching Arizona on the way to this years national chipper.

We need to start pounding the pavement as they say. We need hastags and some sort of consistent message to inundate the socials and other media with. We can meme Miller back onto the sidelines, we have accomplished much more difficult tasks with memes.

Meanwhile, Trier wonders if the NCAA remembers his name

I've had my dislikes with Scheer in the past, but I love how he is attacking this one head on. Major props.

splitsecond wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Just thought you all should know that I am foaming at the mouth.

As an I Odogg.

After a weekend of processing. I am more pissed now then when the story broke because it is becoming increasingly clear that Arizona and Miller we done severely and terribly wrong. Especially when the ESPN talking heads decided to pile on.

The joe peschi corn field scene in casino would be too kind for schlabach and the rest at ESPN.m

Edit: yes spiff, ESPN tried to bury Arizona’s corpse, the more this is talked about the more we win over joe fan (which needs to happen given the hit Miller took) and have Miller coaching Arizona on the way to this years national chipper.

We need to start pounding the pavement as they say. We need hastags and some sort of consistent message to inundate the socials and other media with. We can meme Miller back onto the sidelines, we have accomplished much more difficult tasks with memes.

Quite a few of us are. #ESPNTimeline or #AytonTimeline or #freemiller seem reasonable.

At what point can Arizona and millers legal team send a cease and desist letter requesting an high level retraction of the story? Something to the effect of “since we are barred from discussing until the conclusion of the fbi investigation and subsequent trial we request...”

Can they even do it with the ongoing fbi investigation?

Chicat wrote:The longer Schlabach and ESPN sit quiet without addressing the holes in that story, the more it feels like they got played into making an accusation that’s either lacking any kind of real evidence, or is flat out false.

Devil's advocate, the silence could be Miller and Arizona negotiating an exit.

Or it could be that the initial article was trumped up. One of my core beliefs is that Miller knows what he said and knows what happens if the actual comversation leaks. Miller's own actions should tell us how bad this is.

I don’t tweet but those are some awesome hashtags. Get them out into the public and get others to see them and retweet.

Btfd, im with you in the assessment of Scheer.

Someone needs to hook him up with an interview on Rome, finebaum, or cowherd.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:The longer Schlabach and ESPN sit quiet without addressing the holes in that story, the more it feels like they got played into making an accusation that’s either lacking any kind of real evidence, or is flat out false.

Devil's advocate, the silence could be Miller and Arizona negotiating an exit.

Or it could be that the initial article was trumped up. One of my core beliefs is that Miller knows what he said and knows what happens if the actual comversation leaks. Miller's own actions should tell us how bad this is.

In this is game of high stakes poker, Miller and Arizona have already made their bed and staked their position. Aside from going forward, what exit could be made with out the university looking seriously complicit?

Jim Rome is another guy who should hate ESPN deep down. He's remarkably professional talking about other networks but ESPN treated him like shit.

Plus he has the biggest sports radio show in the country, which is now simulcast on CBS Sports Net

The NCAA punted to the school. So unless there's some kind of legal barrier to re-instating Miller, it seems like it's now become a matter of weighing pros/cons of keeping him. Has public opinion turned so decisively against Miller that keeping him is simply untenable? One thinks of Bobby Knight. Different circumstances, yes, but opinion against him was strong, except in Bloomington. We know what happened.

Even if the school decides *not* to fire him, what comes next? Is there no further statement from Miller or the school, except for the same language about being vindicated and maintaining the same position as last fall?

I'm just trying to envision what the next few weeks could look like if he's back on the sidelines for the tourney, or sooner.

I would feel better if I heard an announcement that Miller will be at the presser today at practice and on the bench Thursday. no doubt they will convene at some point today with attorneys on both sides and talk, but about what. Strength in numbers but I am still cautious on the AD's plan

At this point I don't think Miller is leaving. I bet he's coaching the rest of the way.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:

This tweet, along with the complete silence on this story from the media in the last 16+ hours, makes me think there is serious digging going on right now.

In the words of a once great thread at GOAZCATS...

STAY TUNED....

The quicker the resolution, the worse it is for Miller and Arizona. The more it extends, the more most reasonable people would think there are issues in what looked like a open and shut thing.

Sooner rather than later, ESPN is going to have to either confirm or deny if they have actually seen the official transcript or heard the tape. This is a big deal. When this story broke it was assumed they had and that's what most average people assume at this moment in time.

Alieberman wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:

This tweet, along with the complete silence on this story from the media in the last 16+ hours, makes me think there is serious digging going on right now.

In the words of a once great thread at GOAZCATS...

STAY TUNED....

The quicker the resolution, the worse it is for Miller and Arizona. The more it extends, the more most reasonable people would think there are issues in what looked like a open and shut thing.

Sooner rather than later, ESPN is going to have to either confirm or deny if they have actually seen the official transcript or heard the tape. This is a big deal. When this story broke it was assumed they had and that's what most average people assume at this moment in time.

That was certainly the impression I got on Friday evening

The silence from the blowhards at ESPN is deafening.

for those with employer blocks...

Has the Reddit dismantling of this story been completely rehashed here, or is there more worth a cut and paste or digest form?

And can anyone?

PHXCATS wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:

This tweet, along with the complete silence on this story from the media in the last 16+ hours, makes me think there is serious digging going on right now.

In the words of a once great thread at GOAZCATS...

STAY TUNED....

The quicker the resolution, the worse it is for Miller and Arizona. The more it extends, the more most reasonable people would think there are issues in what looked like a open and shut thing.

Sooner rather than later, ESPN is going to have to either confirm or deny if they have actually seen the official transcript or heard the tape. This is a big deal. When this story broke it was assumed they had and that's what most average people assume at this moment in time.

That was certainly the impression I got on Friday evening

As did I.

Everyone did. Everyone thought that a story with this much magnitude had at least one tangible shred of evidence.

Majerle is going to be on Jim Rome at 220 est talking about ncaa issues. Someone from here should call into the Jim Rome show and see if he will talk about the Miller issues.

BTFD have at her

http://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?page=espncscontact" target="_blank