Bear Down Wildcats

I'm in the boat this is a loss mitigation meeting for them. they don't see a plausible exit strategy. Hope Miller goes balls deep and finishes the season with this team. then we can enter the next phase.

It may not be firing but instead mutually agreeing to part ways. Look, I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen or what I think should happen. I just think it's a possibility. Unfortunately, regardless of truth there is a cost to this thing the longer it plays out and the more uncertainty there is. Now that ESPN tossed a hand grenade, Arizona's program is dead in the water as long as Sean Miller is coach and the investigation is open. Recruiting can't move forward. And Miller would agree that until he's proven guilty or innocent, he has no traction to recruit and steer the program. It sucks terribly. And ESPN is to blame because up until this weekend, everything was playing out legally. If I was the judge presiding over this case, I'd want the leaker's ass in a jail cell for a very long time.

Newportcat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Additionally if the terminate Miller there are implying there is some truth to the Schlabach report. Which if it is false they not only lose their chance the sue but will be sued heavily by team Miller.

He may not coach another game at Arizona but Miller holds all the cards right now.

Definitely does but never trust ABOR yo do the right thing

God I love Arizona basketball fans. Truly amazing to see the passion we have for our program

I don’t trust the ABOR that’s why I feel I’m going to bed tonight and waking up for a funeral tomorrow

Can I maybe make you feel a tad bit better before bed?/

Olsondogg wrote:Can I maybe make you feel a tad bit better before bed?/

Por favor.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Additionally if the terminate Miller there are implying there is some truth to the Schlabach report. Which if it is false they not only lose their chance the sue but will be sued heavily by team Miller.

He may not coach another game at Arizona but Miller holds all the cards right now.

Definitely does but never trust ABOR yo do the right thing

God I love Arizona basketball fans. Truly amazing to see the passion we have for our program

I don’t trust the ABOR that’s why I feel I’m going to bed tonight and waking up for a funeral tomorrow

Like someone just mentioned though, these ABOR types tend to be risk averse and the safest thing seems to be holding off until they have more information (unless they know something we don't).

So the chair of ABOR is a UA grad and former chair of the PHX U of A Alumni Association.

Hope you sleep a bit better, maybe.

https://www.azregents.edu/regents/bill-ridenour" target="_blank

zonagrad wrote:It may not be firing but instead mutually agreeing to part ways. Look, I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen or what I think should happen. I just think it's a possibility. Unfortunately, regardless of truth there is a cost to this thing the longer it plays out and the more uncertainty there is. Now that ESPN tossed a hand grenade, Arizona's program is dead in the water as long as Sean Miller is coach and the investigation is open. Recruiting can't move forward. And Miller would agree that until he's proven guilty or innocent, he has no traction to recruit and steer the program. It sucks terribly. And ESPN is to blame because up until this weekend, everything was playing out legally. If I was the judge presiding over this case, I'd want the leaker's ass in a jail cell for a very long time.

Zona you just nailed some I’ve ideas I’ve been wresting with and clearly articulated the case form Miller going. I’m wouldn’t like it, and wouldn’t agree, but this is a very reasonable process i could see happening.

ESPN done fucked our program for about 3 seasons at a minimum.

Olsondogg wrote:So the chair of ABOR is a UA grad and former chair of the PHX U of A Alumni Association.

Hope you sleep a bit better, maybe.

https://www.azregents.edu/regents/bill-ridenour" target="_blank

Thanks man that just might do it, regarding getting some sleep tonight.

Olsondogg wrote:So the chair of ABOR is a UA grad and former chair of the PHX U of A Alumni Association.

Hope you sleep a bit better, maybe.

https://www.azregents.edu/regents/bill-ridenour" target="_blank

Wow. Talk about being in a tough spot. If he's the leader of the committee who fires Sean Miller, he'll live out his remaining years eliciting sneers and boos from fellow alums.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:So the chair of ABOR is a UA grad and former chair of the PHX U of A Alumni Association.

Hope you sleep a bit better, maybe.

https://www.azregents.edu/regents/bill-ridenour" target="_blank

Thanks man that just might do it, regarding getting some sleep tonight.

Bill.is a really good guy. I have complete faith he will do the right thing

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:So the chair of ABOR is a UA grad and former chair of the PHX U of A Alumni Association.

Hope you sleep a bit better, maybe.

https://www.azregents.edu/regents/bill-ridenour" target="_blank

Thanks man that just might do it, regarding getting some sleep tonight.

Bill.is a really good guy. I have complete faith he will do the right thing

Which is what?

i think given what we all know and don't know up to this point, firing Sean Miller tomorrow would be a mistake.

zonagrad wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:So the chair of ABOR is a UA grad and former chair of the PHX U of A Alumni Association.

Hope you sleep a bit better, maybe.

https://www.azregents.edu/regents/bill-ridenour" target="_blank

Thanks man that just might do it, regarding getting some sleep tonight.

Bill.is a really good guy. I have complete faith he will do the right thing

Which is what?

Depends what is presented to him but if it is what we all know he would see the holes and act accordingly

I would be shocked if he voted to fire Miller based on what we know now

97cats wrote:i think given what we all know and don't know up to this point, firing Sean Miller tomorrow would be a mistake.

Without a doubt. If they want to fire, wait a month. Won’t matter a bit.

Plus money is a factor. Scheer was stating this on the radio. We have RR’s buyout, plus Sumlins new salary, plus some lawsuits, and they wanna tack on Millers buyout?

97cats wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:
Seriously, 97? You're ready to close the book on the Miller era?

ive thought this was the last season for Miller since September - what i didnt know what was the perception of him among many folks that fly at a different altitude than me.

a cocktail party here an xmas party there and its easy for me to understand why Bilas and Greenberg jumped on his ass prematurely, the narrative inside college sports is that Miller is dirty, he just cheats better than anyone else.

is this true? i dont know about to that extent, but as soon as people smelled one drop of blood it was pile on time, and i tell you that because off the record thats the reputation he has inside and around college basketball.

so, am i ready to close the book (no pun intended)? im not sure.

but i can tell you i could care far less about him leaving now than i did any year before this season - i just dont want him to leave like Todd Bozemon with shit stain trail.

thats why im praying he gets through these next few days and finds his way back onto the court...thats what all AZ fans should be hoping for.

Thanks for the color... to me this is a binary, black-and-white issue. If you cheat, you cheat. And you don't get any credit for being shittier at it.

Does that excuse Miller? Nope. But no one else, either.

I'll be very disappointed if he really is such a phony, lying sack of shit with all of the statements he has made about his role of "ensuring a culture of compliance"... very different than who I have perceived him to be - good Midwestern working-class roots, son of a HS BB coach and all. Although the fact that he and Calipari are such good buddies has always given me pause; the only thing, actually.

^^This is all a hypothetical... I am on his bandwagon until he proves to me that I should not be.

97cats wrote:i think given what we all know and don't know up to this point, firing Sean Miller tomorrow would be a mistake.

Agree whole heartedly. But at some point it's about diminishing returns. There's no telling how long it will take to exonerate Miller. It's unconscionable what ESPN did to our program. And Miller and Arizona are powerless to do anything about it until this federal case moves forward. You can't prove your innocence in a case in which you are not even charged. And there are always delays in a court case. Who's to say we're not back in this same boat one year from now?

I don't think it hurts to roll the dice on the rest of the season. If the ABOR, Robbins & Heeke come out with a show of support for Miller based on the evidence available, I think Arizona could very well become the darlings of the dance. I mean, every contrarian and ESPN establishment-hating hoop fan is gonna pull for Arizona to shit can the NCAA. And won't that be a sight to behold?

I can't be the only one who thinks the John Calipari is a dirtbag thing is a bit overdone?

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I can't be the only one who thinks the John Calipari is a dirtbag thing is a bit overdone?

I'll say it again: I like John Calipari.

Postmaster wrote:97, can you elaborate a bit on the well oiled machine?
Not looking for names, just some idea of what miller does better than the others

the game inside big-time recruiting at the top 30(ish) NCAA Basketball programs is simple, the top players get compensated (some more than others) and this has been standard practice for three decades, maybe more depending who you ask and when you ask them.

most of the difference comes with the individuals and the capacity of those individuals who are in charge to make a special impact -- charisma, staying power, success, trust, experience, etc.

when paired with HUGE resources the tandem creates a powerful platform - Kansas, Mich St, Syracuse, Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, UCLA, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Villanova, Indiana, UCONN, Ohio State, Texas are all playing with a stacked deck. they have the infrastructure and leadership to be the top landing spots for the majority of the top players.

then schools that participate but at the next tier down, having support and solid foundations, but one step below in the resources or 'Blue Blood' cache: Wichita State, Maryland, Washington, Florida State, USC, Georgetown, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Alabama, Miami, NC Sate, Utah, Gonzaga, Purdue, Butler, Minnesota, Texas A&M, Auburn, etc.

I'm for sure missing relevant programs, but this top 30(ish) or so all participates, just on different levels.

where Sean Miller and Arizona were able to separate at times and compete with the top tier and WIN was from the support of the program.

Arizona is attractive to coach for a number of reasons, resources are a bug part of that. Olson built the program on it and everyone out WEST was terrified of Arizona for two decades. Calipari was attracted to its potential and Sean Miller and Co took it to a whole new level.

the Andy Enfield's of the world in college bball know when Bill Self, Tom Izzo, Roy Williams or John Calipari really engages that his chances of success with that said recruit diminish considerably - Sean Miller was able to penetrate that veil and have success and the Arizona brand was/is the real reason why.

Longhorned wrote:

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I can't be the only one who thinks the John Calipari is a dirtbag thing is a bit overdone?

I'll say it again: I like John Calipari.

Glad I have some company.

97cats wrote:

Postmaster wrote:97, can you elaborate a bit on the well oiled machine?
Not looking for names, just some idea of what miller does better than the others

the game inside big-time recruiting at the top 30(ish) NCAA Basketball programs is simple, the top players get compensated (some more than others) and this has been standard practice for three decades, maybe more depending who you ask and when you ask them.

most of the difference comes with the individuals and the capacity of those individuals who are in charge to make a special impact -- charisma, staying power, success, trust, experience, etc.

when paired with HUGE resources the tandem creates a powerful platform - Kansas, Mich St, Syracuse, Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, UCLA, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Villanova, Indiana, UCONN, Ohio State, Texas are all playing with a stacked deck. they have the infrastructure and leadership to be the top landing spots for the majority of the top players.

then schools that participate but at the next tier down, having support and solid foundations, but one step below in the resources or 'Blue Blood' cache: Wichita State, Maryland, Washington, Florida State, USC, Georgetown, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Alabama, Miami, NC Sate, Utah, Gonzaga, Purdue, Butler, Minnesota, Texas A&M, Auburn, etc.

I'm for sure missing relevant programs, but this top 30(ish) or so all participates, just on different levels.

where Sean Miller and Arizona were able to separate at times and compete with the top tier and WIN was from the support of the program.

Arizona is attractive to coach for a number of reasons, resources are a bug part of that. Olson built the program on it and everyone out WEST was terrified of Arizona for two decades. Calipari was attracted to its potential and Sean Miller and Co took it to a whole new level.

the Andy Enfield's of the world in college bball know when Bill Self, Tom Izzo, Roy Williams or John Calipari really engages that his chances of success with that said recruit diminish considerably - Sean Miller was able to penetrate that veil and have success and the Arizona brand was/is the real reason why.

Something about rep... I'd give you some... ha.

Also 97 seemingly explains why Boyle is a whiny pissy pants bitch.

If we need a new coach, that second tier is where we would go for one I would hope.

97cats wrote:

Postmaster wrote:97, can you elaborate a bit on the well oiled machine?
Not looking for names, just some idea of what miller does better than the others

the game inside big-time recruiting at the top 30(ish) NCAA Basketball programs is simple, the top players get compensated (some more than others) and this has been standard practice for three decades, maybe more depending who you ask and when you ask them.

most of the difference comes with the individuals and the capacity of those individuals who are in charge to make a special impact -- charisma, staying power, success, trust, experience, etc.

when paired with HUGE resources the tandem creates a powerful platform - Kansas, Mich St, Syracuse, Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, UCLA, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Villanova, Indiana, UCONN, Ohio State, Texas are all playing with a stacked deck. they have the infrastructure and leadership to be the top landing spots for the majority of the top players.

then schools that participate but at the next tier down, having support and solid foundations, but one step below in the resources or 'Blue Blood' cache: Wichita State, Maryland, Washington, Florida State, USC, Georgetown, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Alabama, Miami, NC Sate, Utah, Gonzaga, Purdue, Butler, Minnesota, Texas A&M, Auburn, etc.

I'm for sure missing relevant programs, but this top 30(ish) or so all participates, just on different levels.

where Sean Miller and Arizona were able to separate at times and compete with the top tier and WIN was from the support of the program.

Arizona is attractive to coach for a number of reasons, resources are a bug part of that. Olson built the program on it and everyone out WEST was terrified of Arizona for two decades. Calipari was attracted to its potential and Sean Miller and Co took it to a whole new level.

the Andy Enfield's of the world in college bball know when Bill Self, Tom Izzo, Roy Williams or John Calipari really engages that his chances of success with that said recruit diminish considerably - Sean Miller was able to penetrate that veil and have success and the Arizona brand was/is the real reason why.

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I can't be the only one who thinks the John Calipari is a dirtbag thing is a bit overdone?

Nope I'm there with you, I think the entire cultural perspective that everyone does this shit and all players are paid is ridiculous, it borders on the moon landing being faked level of conspiracy...

I think a lot of guys are straight shooters Calapari fears no one, I even respect the way Larry Krystkowiak talks straight and defends Utah, as much as I want to believe Duke is dirty there is a part of me that says it is just possible that even there they have simply built a program over the years...

This does not mean that some players have not been paid or that seedy agents have not side-stepped the rules and that some level of pay-for-play does not exists but so far the FBI has managed to nab a handful of assistant coaches and that is all...we are talking the most resourced investigation unit on the planet and they have not cracked up the "systemic graft" we all fall into lock step believing...

At some point pure data takes over in my thinking...and so far out of over 330+ college basketball teams with thousands of players and coaches we have a grand total of what 6-8 indictments a handful of players in the last many years RUMORED to have taken money and that is ALL.

I lean more into data and less into emotion these days.

97cats wrote: "...Sean Miller was able to penetrate that veil and have success and the Arizona brand was/is the real reason why."

You wonder if what is going on will cause irreparable damage to that brand or if Lute's foundation can keep the house standing. Thanks to Miller we are no longer a "one-coach school" like Uconn or Syracuse and that's what made the Miller hire and his quick success so important. Always thought the next hire would be that much easier but couldn't in a million years have expected anything like this would go down.

Sean Olson wrote:
You wonder if what is going on will cause irreparable damage to that brand or if Lute's foundation can keep the house standing. Thanks to Miller we are no longer a "one-coach school" like Uconn or Syracuse and that's what made the Miller hire and his quick success so important. Always thought the next hire would be that much easier but couldn't in a million years have expected anything like this would go down.

I think if Sean Miller is "vindicated" (as he calls it) the brand is protected.

I do believe he should be allowed to coach the team immediately and make a final run this season - what ESPN did, unless more comes out implicating Miller, was irresponsible and wrong on every level.

maybe a "fresh start" is just what the Dr. ordered, that could very well be the case, but if Arizona can move on to the next guy from this guy the brand should survive and thrive.

however, if he is fired tomorrow I do think the perception makes things more difficult -- that's just my opinion tho.

Re: the well oiled machine.
Ok, thank you.

Dude, 97. Great damn posts and info. Miller's rep may be taking a hit, but yours is soaring.

Wow.
Against my better judgement on the drive to work today I listen to ESPN FM's morning radio show.
There was plenty of coverage of the Sean Miller situation, but not a single mention of the possibility that the allegations are false or at the very least unsubstantiated at this point. They spent the entire time acting shocked that Sean Miller hadn't been fired yet and saying that clearly he would never coach another game at Arizona. Basically, they are taking the article as gospel at this point. It is very discouraging but I guess not surprising.

Of course they are taking it as gospel. If it was from any other sports news outlet they would be poking holes in it, but since it was reported from them they will not saying anything negative about it.

They know something is going on with it, which is why it has become a buried story on their website and they barely mention it during halftime of any games. The whole premise behind them releasing this article was that Yahoo got the upper hand on the story, and they were upset that it wasn't them, so ESPN has to put some kind of story out there.

No journalistic integrity in that company.

This shouldn't come as a shocker, but I agree completely with 97 in regards to how Arizona should handle this.

Mark Schlabach has been missing in action for 36 hours now.

Did the Deep State shut him up? The Pittsburgh mafia? Aliens?

97cats wrote:

Sean Olson wrote:
You wonder if what is going on will cause irreparable damage to that brand or if Lute's foundation can keep the house standing. Thanks to Miller we are no longer a "one-coach school" like Uconn or Syracuse and that's what made the Miller hire and his quick success so important. Always thought the next hire would be that much easier but couldn't in a million years have expected anything like this would go down.

I think if Sean Miller is "vindicated" (as he calls it) the brand is protected.

I do believe he should be allowed to coach the team immediately and make a final run this season - what ESPN did, unless more comes out implicating Miller, was irresponsible and wrong on every level.

maybe a "fresh start" is just what the Dr. ordered, that could very well be the case, but if Arizona can move on to the next guy from this guy the brand should survive and thrive.

however, if he is fired tomorrow I do think the perception makes things more difficult -- that's just my opinion tho.

I'm saying this as a U of Illinois faculty member, not as a fan:

Whatever decision the ABOR makes, the legal side isn't enough. It also has to be transparent. We shouldn't read their statement and say, "I don't understand. Why is he being terminated?" Or, "I don't understand. What's up with the ESPN stuff if he isn't being terminated?" We can all have our own individual reasons for agreeing with the decision or not, but we can't not have a very clear sense of what's behind it.

And if Miller is fired, we'd better see clarification that assures us that Miller did what ESPN says he did. If they fire him because they don't have his back when there's a lack of evidence, don't believe for a second that it's a legal issue. It's more complicated than that, and what it would add up to is that the ABOR is a contributing part of the problem, and everyone who can and is willing should hold those board members responsible.

It's also possible that Miller resigns today.

Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

I don’t think Miller resigns. Call it him knowing the truth, call it a massive ego, or call it stupid...I don’t see him backing down.

I don't see how Miller resigns based on 97 plus Miller losing out on so much money. He is toxic until it is proven this is bs so he can't get another gig right away

Olsondogg wrote:I don’t think Miller resigns. Call it him knowing the truth, call it a massive ego, or call it stupid...I don’t see him backing down.

I think if the regents vote to fire him, the public message we hear will be from Miller announcing he is stepping down for the good of the team / school. He doesn't want to be a distraction blah, blah, blah

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I don’t think Miller resigns. Call it him knowing the truth, call it a massive ego, or call it stupid...I don’t see him backing down.

I think if the regents vote to fire him, the public message we hear will be from Miller announcing he is stepping down for the good of the team / school.

Fuck that shit. You gonna fire me? Own it.

If I’m innocent to what’s been reported there is no way I do that.

Like I said in the sausage thread (even prior to all the holes opening in this story) burn Rome down on your exit. If he’s fired, I call 60 minutes and schedule an interview for selection Sunday.

Furthermore what does resigning do to Aytons statement? You are all in at this point and Arizona should be as well

I think before that 247 article started circulating ABOR might have been more concerned about the Arizona perception, because a majority of fans not looking into this as much as the people on this board, they would have been concerned that we would be sending the wrong message by having Miller coach. But I think now that the ESPN story is being questioned, and more people are catching wind with the possibility of this not being true, it gives Miller a better chance of hopefully finishing out the year.

I just feel Miller is not the type to resign. Just don't see him quitting or giving up when all hells breaking loose. We all know how close he is to his players so my gut tells me he wants to see his program/team/players through to the end of the year before moving on/

I will be really pissed off if the regents fire him based on what we know now. It would be spineless.

Olsondogg wrote:Furthermore what does resigning do to Aytons statement? You are all in at this point and Arizona should be as well

It wouldn't affect Ayton's continuing eligibility because Miller's alleged conversation about Ayton doesn't equal Ayton allegedly receiving anything. But you're absolutely right: In the court of public opinion and all the stupid things the media is willing to say and people are willing to believe, a forced resignation would be the ABOR's invitation to the world to pile on a student athlete whose innocence has already been established. And that goes for any accompanying language on the matter.

Olsondogg wrote:Furthermore what does resigning do to Aytons statement? You are all in at this point and Arizona should be as well

I think Miller would phrase it as he is not guilty of any wrongdoing, he will be proven innocent, but for the good of the university....

EastCoastCat wrote:I just feel Miller is not the type to resign. Just don't see him quitting or giving up when all hells breaking loose. We all know how close he is to his players so my gut tells me he wants to see his program/team/players through to the end of the year before moving on/

I will be really pissed off if the regents fire him based on what we know now. It would be spineless.

I would call it being way too over protective but regardless I thinking would be a huge mistake at this time

If Miller is fired with the information that is currently out there, I am going to be pissed off.

Sean Miller will not resign, he may get fired but will not resign.

and given what we know and don’t know up to this point, firing Sean Miller would be a mistake.

CalStateTempe wrote:Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.