Bear Down Wildcats

Miller is not going to quit, why would he give up that money.

Longhorned wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Furthermore what does resigning do to Aytons statement? You are all in at this point and Arizona should be as well

It wouldn't affect Ayton's continuing eligibility because Miller's alleged conversation about Ayton doesn't equal Ayton allegedly receiving anything. But you're absolutely right: In the court of public opinion and all the stupid things the media is willing to say and people are willing to believe, a forced resignation would be the ABOR's invitation to the world to pile on a student athlete whose innocence has already been established. And that goes for any accompanying language on the matter.

So, Miller's absence since Saturday has never been characterized as a "suspension" - it's a "mutual agreement". What's to prevent a "mutual agreement" to part ways?

Right now, both Miller and the U of A share strong desires/needs for damage control. A "mutual agreement" to end his employment allows both sides to pursue future damage control without any blame and/or costly legal complications....

None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes now, but, given the fact that any true resolution of the allegations against Miller will/would be very difficult to definitively resolve in the short term, this type of resolution would allow each side to be in full control of its own "damage control"....

Isn't this the kind of deal that lawyers and public relations experts negotiate in many situations?

pc in NM wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Furthermore what does resigning do to Aytons statement? You are all in at this point and Arizona should be as well

It wouldn't affect Ayton's continuing eligibility because Miller's alleged conversation about Ayton doesn't equal Ayton allegedly receiving anything. But you're absolutely right: In the court of public opinion and all the stupid things the media is willing to say and people are willing to believe, a forced resignation would be the ABOR's invitation to the world to pile on a student athlete whose innocence has already been established. And that goes for any accompanying language on the matter.

So, Miller's absence since Saturday has never been characterized as a "suspension" - it's a "mutual agreement". What's to prevent a "mutual agreement" to part ways?

Right now, both Miller and the U of A share strong desires/needs for damage control. A "mutual agreement" to end his employment allows both sides to pursue future damage control without any blame and/or costly legal complications....

No of us really know what is going on behind the scenes now, but, given the fact that any true resolution of the allegations against Miller will/would be very difficult to definitively resolve, this type of resolution would allow each side to be in full control of its own "damage control"....

Isn't this the kind of deal that lawyers and public relations experts negotiate in many situations?

I can only go by what I see but here in Phoenix everyone knows the story has holes even thr ESPN radio affiliate. National people saying the same. Only ESPN is what you worry about and thru know they have holes in their story

97cats wrote:Sean Miller will not resign, he may get fired but will not resign.

and given what we know and don’t know up to this point, firing Sean Miller would be a mistake.

Wouldn't you assume the UofA and their legal counsel know more then we do?

Putting this here so I can remember to listen to the interview when posted

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.

100%.

We shouldn't act on ESPN's demands. I would be heartened if our Admin called them out by name (Bilas, Vitale, etc...) about their rush to judge. If ESPN has more info than they're reporting, then they need to release it. Otherwise, STFU.

Olsondogg wrote:Furthermore what does resigning do to Aytons statement? You are all in at this point and Arizona should be as well

Yup, Arizona already staked their claim and pushed their chips in with the letterhead release on Sat. Not to mention outside counsel going to bat for ayton they say they did.

However ABOR is a different entity (bean counters with no stones) so we’ll see how risk adverse they are today. I hope I am surprised.

zonagrad wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.

100%.

We shouldn't act on ESPN's demands. I would be heartened if our Admin called them out by name (Bilas, Vitale, etc...) about their rush to judge. If ESPN has more info than they're reporting, then they need to release it. Otherwise, STFU.

If I was U of A admin, I wouldn't wait on ESPN to release. I'd have asked them to provide information to assist our internal investigation and decision.

If they refuse or say there's no more, I wouldn't go at anyone in particular, I would point out the refusal hampers our ability to reach a timely conclusion. If they say there isn't more, I'd point out the 24/7 report and say that the discrepancies require further investigation.

Put it on them to respond.

phxcat23 wrote:I think before that 247 article started circulating ABOR might have been more concerned about the Arizona perception, because a majority of fans not looking into this as much as the people on this board, they would have been concerned that we would be sending the wrong message by having Miller coach. But I think now that the ESPN story is being questioned, and more people are catching wind with the possibility of this not being true, it gives Miller a better chance of hopefully finishing out the year.

I asked my best friend yesterday what the pulse was like in Tucson and he said people are “shocked that Arizona could be involved with things like this and where there is smoke there is fire”

That’s what concerns me that even general Arizona fan was swayed by this report.

Ftr my buddy does not share that perspective just relating to me the sense he’s getting for those that are less informed.

Bill will not rush to judgment and will be reasonable with the information presented to him. I am very confident in that. I have zero worries that u less the ABOR knows more than us at this point that Miller will be fine the rest of the year

I just watch PTI to see what Wilbon had to say. Fucking ESPN showed pictures of Akot when they were supposed to show Ayton

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:Sean Miller will not resign, he may get fired but will not resign.

and given what we know and don’t know up to this point, firing Sean Miller would be a mistake.

Wouldn't you assume the UofA and their legal counsel know more then we do?

Yes, of course they do.

Thought Experiment: If you were U of A legal counsel, what questions, specifically, would you ask CSM?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.

100%.

We shouldn't act on ESPN's demands. I would be heartened if our Admin called them out by name (Bilas, Vitale, etc...) about their rush to judge. If ESPN has more info than they're reporting, then they need to release it. Otherwise, STFU.

If I was U of A admin, I wouldn't wait on ESPN to release. I'd have asked them to provide information to assist our internal investigation and decision.

If they refuse or say there's no more, I wouldn't go at anyone in particular, I would point out the refusal hampers our ability to reach a timely conclusion. If they say there isn't more, I'd point out the 24/7 report and say that the discrepancies require further investigation.

Put it on them to respond.

That’s what a smart person/team would do.

Again I’m really hoping the ABOR will surprise me today.

97cats wrote:Sean Miller will not resign, he may get fired but will not resign.

and given what we know and don’t know up to this point, firing Sean Miller would be a mistake.

This!!!

'97 - as always, you are dead on.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.

100%.

We shouldn't act on ESPN's demands. I would be heartened if our Admin called them out by name (Bilas, Vitale, etc...) about their rush to judge. If ESPN has more info than they're reporting, then they need to release it. Otherwise, STFU.

If I was U of A admin, I wouldn't wait on ESPN to release. I'd have asked them to provide information to assist our internal investigation and decision.

If they refuse or say there's no more, I wouldn't go at anyone in particular, I would point out the refusal hampers our ability to reach a timely conclusion. If they say there isn't more, I'd point out the 24/7 report and say that the discrepancies require further investigation.

Put it on them to respond.

Absolutely. ESPN dropped the bomb. It's on them to prove their story.

PHXCATS wrote:I just watch PTI to see what Wilbon had to say. Fucking ESPN showed pictures of Akot when they were supposed to show Ayton

Any screen grabs of that? ESPN hasn't blocked me yet...I need to try harder.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Great post LH. And that is my fear that Miller gets fired because of perception and less on evidence. To you issue of clarity and understanding, that’s what I’m hoping for in the release today: I may not agree with the decision but I’d like to understand the decision making.

The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.

100%.

We shouldn't act on ESPN's demands. I would be heartened if our Admin called them out by name (Bilas, Vitale, etc...) about their rush to judge. If ESPN has more info than they're reporting, then they need to release it. Otherwise, STFU.

If I was U of A admin, I wouldn't wait on ESPN to release. I'd have asked them to provide information to assist our internal investigation and decision.

If they refuse or say there's no more, I wouldn't go at anyone in particular, I would point out the refusal hampers our ability to reach a timely conclusion. If they say there isn't more, I'd point out the 24/7 report and say that the discrepancies require further investigation.

Put it on them to respond.

That’s what a smart person/team would do.

Again I’m really hoping the ABOR will surprise me today.

The head of ABOR is a UA grad who is very very connected and spent years and years giving back to UA

The last thing ABOR wants is lawsuits and more buyouts.

NYCat wrote:Putting this here so I can remember to listen to the interview when posted

You gotta jump on his tweet thread
#BoycottDisneyuntilESPNretracts

phenom5 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I just watch PTI to see what Wilbon had to say. Fucking ESPN showed pictures of Akot when they were supposed to show Ayton

Any screen grabs of that? ESPN hasn't blocked me yet...I need to try harder.

I gotta run for some work thing but I will try later.

If you watch on the ESPN ap yesterdays PTI is is half way through the Sean Miller topic which is their second story so about 3 minutes and change into it. It is Akot from the asu gsme in Tempe

zonagrad wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
The night this all dropped, I did a thread making a case for patience. I think it's more important now than ever.

Quick action is all about PR at the expense of best judgment. In real terms, what does Arizona actually stand to lose by delaying a decision on Miller's future until most or all of the facts are known?

The only loss is that we'll get hammered by ESPN, because they want us to corroborate their story for them by firing Miller. We won't lose games or significantly change our national rep. The NCAA is not exactly the fastest agency themselves in decisionmaking, so I doubt they get after us.

Bottom line: decisions always get better with more info. More info comes by not rushing decisions.

100%.

We shouldn't act on ESPN's demands. I would be heartened if our Admin called them out by name (Bilas, Vitale, etc...) about their rush to judge. If ESPN has more info than they're reporting, then they need to release it. Otherwise, STFU.

If I was U of A admin, I wouldn't wait on ESPN to release. I'd have asked them to provide information to assist our internal investigation and decision.

If they refuse or say there's no more, I wouldn't go at anyone in particular, I would point out the refusal hampers our ability to reach a timely conclusion. If they say there isn't more, I'd point out the 24/7 report and say that the discrepancies require further investigation.

Put it on them to respond.

Absolutely. ESPN dropped the bomb. It's on them to prove their story.

I see it more as they've got a right to publish that. We don't have to accept it and they don't need to give us the corroboration. That said, if they want us to side with them, they hold info that can assist that happening.

If they're not just looking to throw bombs and then report on the wreckage, they can potentially make this faster and more convincing.

Or they have no more info, and given the 24/7 article, we should be looking further for confirmation. Either way, ESPN has a chance to answer their own question about why Miller isn't fired.

https://twitter.com/theonlysweeney/stat ... 3639682049" target="_blank

ChooChooCat wrote:

Could we possibly be saved by disgruntled ex-ESPN reporters?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Could we possibly be saved by disgruntled ex-ESPN reporters?

Considering ESPN laid off pretty much all of their quality reporters, I'd say the odds are sure as shit good.

Wow this is just all so crazy

Fuck ESPN

Meanwhile, DIS is down 3% today.

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:Sean Miller will not resign, he may get fired but will not resign.

and given what we know and don’t know up to this point, firing Sean Miller would be a mistake.

Wouldn't you assume the UofA and their legal counsel know more then we do?

But while protecting the university, they still have to be transparent in what's behind their decision. They need to tell Arizona residents what they know so that Arizona residents know what they know, too. If they fire him without a clear justification, that's when we can stop assuming they know more than we know. That's when they become accountable.

PHXCATS wrote:

phenom5 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I just watch PTI to see what Wilbon had to say. Fucking ESPN showed pictures of Akot when they were supposed to show Ayton

Any screen grabs of that? ESPN hasn't blocked me yet...I need to try harder.

I gotta run for some work thing but I will try later.

If you watch on the ESPN ap yesterdays PTI is is half way through the Sean Miller topic which is their second story so about 3 minutes and change into it. It is Akot from the asu gsme in Tempe

Done and done. Thanks for the heads up.

Longhorned wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:Sean Miller will not resign, he may get fired but will not resign.

and given what we know and don’t know up to this point, firing Sean Miller would be a mistake.

Wouldn't you assume the UofA and their legal counsel know more then we do?

But while protecting the university, they still have to be transparent in what's behind their decision. They need to tell Arizona residents what they know so that Arizona residents know what they know, too. If they fire him without a clear justification, that's when we can stop assuming they know more than we know. That's when they become accountable.

Maybe they know more in a general sense, but about the wiretap, they may not know more. There are sources saying what's on it. Beyond that, if Miller hasn't told them anything, they can try to figure out the sources by asking the news org or try to get the wire itself.

Unless that's happened, at least as to the wire, they may be operating from the same place as the casual fan.

Forde was on DP show as well. DP asked if he has heard wiretap to which Forde says “no.” Then DP asks where this came from and Forde just says “it was ESPN.”

Does anyone know what time ABOR is meeting? I need to get work done and refreshing the page every 5 minutes is not helping. I figure a statement would come out a few hours after ABOR starts their meeting.

Can you imagine Millers senior day speech on Saturday....

Forde just roasted ESPN's reporting of the issue:

"I think there is alot of dispute about the ESPN report. There's been a lot of discussion and disagreement about that"

On ESPN Gameday Saturday:

"I thought that was a fairly extreme rush to judgement on that for sure"

Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

On credibility in this particular investigation:

Pat Forde > Matt Schlabach

If he coaches Thursday, he survives this thing. If he doesn't he's most likely done.

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

If they don't have more information, what would administrative leave accomplish?

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.

The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.

There's plenty more room on the train, all aboard!!!!!!

Trickle, trickle...

Blow it up on social media fellas, it's 2018...go all in.

Wait what happened on the drive to work?

Saw the forde and Sweeney stuff anything else?

CalStateTempe wrote:

zonagrad wrote:It may not be firing but instead mutually agreeing to part ways. Look, I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen or what I think should happen. I just think it's a possibility. Unfortunately, regardless of truth there is a cost to this thing the longer it plays out and the more uncertainty there is. Now that ESPN tossed a hand grenade, Arizona's program is dead in the water as long as Sean Miller is coach and the investigation is open. Recruiting can't move forward. And Miller would agree that until he's proven guilty or innocent, he has no traction to recruit and steer the program. It sucks terribly. And ESPN is to blame because up until this weekend, everything was playing out legally. If I was the judge presiding over this case, I'd want the leaker's ass in a jail cell for a very long time.

Zona you just nailed some I’ve ideas I’ve been wresting with and clearly articulated the case form Miller going. I’m wouldn’t like it, and wouldn’t agree, but this is a very reasonable process i could see happening.

ESPN done fucked our program for about 3 seasons at a minimum.

Lets fuck ESPN forever then.

Longhorned wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

If they don't have more information, what would administrative leave accomplish?

Just saying if they're concerned with public perception/distraction. Gives them more time to make a decision. I mean is it logical to think a governing body is just going to say, screw this win and vacate.

Olsondogg wrote:Blow it up on social media fellas, it's 2018...go all in.

Yep I started a #BoycottDisney tag in my response because well...you gotta go over their pointy little heads since they are trying to lay low and hope it doesn't get noticed...

A Boycott Disney until Espn retracts might not make a huge splash but with the stock taking a hit already I can assure you someone in marketing will want a scapegoat...its all about the bottom line with bottom feeders.

Olsondogg wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.

The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.

Look, short of the TV guys' rush to judgement, support for the ESPN story even at ESPN has been tepid to non-existent. The strongest defense has come from Myron Medcalf, whose only defense is that he doesn't want to get himself fired by criticizing the company he works for. Pat Forde, who no longer works for ESPN, has told it like it is, and nobody in the media outside ESPN is supporting the story, let alone publishing any additional details that would expand the story (and obviously they would if they could).

Unless something changes, the only reason you put Miller on administrative leave is fear of misinformed public reaction. That would support the ESPN story that nobody in the media will support. Yeah, we'd have a problem with that.

Olsondogg wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.

The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.

Just trying to be realistic. Can't just ignore all reports. There maybe holes but a governing body has to be sure IMO.

Longhorned wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.

The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.

Look, short of the TV guys' rush to judgement, support for the ESPN story even at ESPN has been tepid to non-existent. The strongest defense has come from Myron Medcalf, whose only defense is that he doesn't want to get himself fired by criticizing the company he works for. Pat Forde, who no longer works for ESPN, has told it like it is, and nobody in the media outside ESPN is supporting the story, let alone publishing any additional details that would expand the story (and obviously they would if they could).

Unless something changes, the only reason you put Miller on administrative leave is fear of misinformed public reaction. That would support the ESPN story that nobody in the media will support. Yeah, we'd have a problem with that.

Spot on LH...the rage I have right now took over for a second.

Firing supports the story, which is foolish to do. Wait a month and fire if you have to.

Man there are some smart savvy and conniving dudes on here.

“Daddy, can we watch frozen tonight?”
“Sorry sweetheart, can’t”
“Why not?”
“Sean millers getting a raw deal by Disney’s partner ESPN”

#boycottdisney. Lol

I love it.

DrWildcat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.

The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.

Just trying to be realistic. Can't just ignore all reports. There maybe holes but a governing body has to be sure IMO.

What does administrative leave protect Arizona against? We'll get criticism from ESPN for anything short of firing. It does nothing relative to our investigation or season.

DrWildcat wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?

If they don't have more information, what would administrative leave accomplish?

Just saying if they're concerned with public perception/distraction. Gives them more time to make a decision. I mean is it logical to think a governing body is just going to say, screw this win and vacate.

They wouldn't be saying "win and vacate." Unless they have additional reasoning to share, the question would be whether they want to support ESPN and a misinformed public perception of something problematic that the media itself doesn't even support, or if they stand by the correct information that they possess.