Re: Sean Miller
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:55 am
I don't agree with Howie. Forde didn't imply any such thing. He just directly stated the fact (it was a report) and an opinion (that the ESPN TV guys rushed to judgement), and he said that of all the documents he's seen as related to the Yahoo story broken earlier that day, none of them corroborate the ESPN report.NYCat wrote:
Great. My wife has booked a Disney World vacation in May. Forgive me fellow fans. I will make sure we all wear Arizona gear every day in Magic Kingdom.CalStateTempe wrote:Man there are some smart savvy and conniving dudes on here.
“Daddy, can we watch frozen tonight?”
“Sorry sweetheart, can’t”
“Why not?”
“Sean millers getting a raw deal by Disney’s partner ESPN”
#boycottdisney. Lol
I love it.
The NCAA, shows the school was at least proactive if it turns out to be true. Shows they looked at all avenues. Otherwise, its you had this information but you did nothing.Spaceman Spiff wrote:What does administrative leave protect Arizona against? We'll get criticism from ESPN for anything short of firing. It does nothing relative to our investigation or season.DrWildcat wrote:Just trying to be realistic. Can't just ignore all reports. There maybe holes but a governing body has to be sure IMO.Olsondogg wrote:Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?
The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.
CalStateTempe wrote:Ariozna wins the national chipper and right before they cut to one shining moment Miller yells “I’m going to universal studios!”
ESPN #MSPN has fucked this up so bad. Why give a crap what they think anywaySpaceman Spiff wrote:What does administrative leave protect Arizona against? We'll get criticism from ESPN for anything short of firing. It does nothing relative to our investigation or season.DrWildcat wrote:Just trying to be realistic. Can't just ignore all reports. There maybe holes but a governing body has to be sure IMO.Olsondogg wrote:Cause a report came out? Fuck that. Altman is still coaching, google him and the word rape for a second. Fuck, google the same with Izzo's name.DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?
The only reason why this fucking "scandal" exists is because of the NCAA. I am so over this fucking shit, and it is so fucking stupid to be going crazy over money that should be put into the athletes pockets.
Relative to win and vacate, Ayton matters more than Miller. A coach can't be ineligible until he is sanctioned. A player can be ineligible when he receives a benefit.Longhorned wrote:They wouldn't be saying "win and vacate." Unless they have additional reasoning to share, the question would be whether they want to support ESPN and a misinformed public perception of something problematic that the media itself doesn't even support, or if they stand by the correct information that they possess.DrWildcat wrote:Just saying if they're concerned with public perception/distraction. Gives them more time to make a decision. I mean is it logical to think a governing body is just going to say, screw this win and vacate.Longhorned wrote:If they don't have more information, what would administrative leave accomplish?DrWildcat wrote:Unless the university/board really has more information, why would they not just put Miller on administrative leave? Seems like it would be hard to fire Miller at this point without more hard evidence. Also, do we even have the money to fire him at this point?
I quoted his fucking audio. Literally all I did...I guess maybe he didn't like the "roasted" part.Longhorned wrote:How is Andy Sweeney's response to Olson Dogg's tweet relevant? What judgement is Olson Dogg's tweet snapping to? Of course Schlabach "could" have a source and be right. The point is that the burden is on ESPN, not everyone else.
Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's 90 days, and the judge has an out. I'll cite U.S. Code § 2518 section d, and below that I'll explain why it could be important:97cats wrote:btw, Jason Scheer has been amazing throughout this entire process, Josh Gershon Brian Snow and Evan Daniels too - these guys have been tremendous.
they have mentioned that anyone who is caught on a federal wire is notified, I believe, 30 days within the capture and nobody at Arizona was notified in 2016 they were heard on a wire - they were however notified in june to august 2017 - but not 2016.
just thought I would leave that tidbit right here...
The reason why the judge's discretion is important is because, if he withholds the wiretap notification from the person recorded, he does so in the interest of justice. That should mean that Miller was under suspicion based on intercepted calls dating from 2016. But that's hard to square with the charges against only Book Richardson in September 2017.U.S. Code § 2518 section d wrote:(d) Within a reasonable time but not later than ninety days after the filing of an application for an order of approval under section 2518(7)(b) which is denied or the termination of the period of an order or extensions thereof, the issuing or denying judge shall cause to be served, on the persons named in the order or the application, and such other parties to intercepted communications as the judge may determine in his discretion that is in the interest of justice, an inventory which shall include notice of—
(1) the fact of the entry of the order or the application;
(2) the date of the entry and the period of authorized, approved or disapproved interception, or the denial of the application; and
(3) the fact that during the period wire, oral, or electronic communications were or were not intercepted.
The judge, upon the filing of a motion, may in his discretion make available to such person or his counsel for inspection such portions of the intercepted communications, applications and orders as the judge determines to be in the interest of justice. On an ex parte showing of good cause to a judge of competent jurisdiction the serving of the inventory required by this subsection may be postponed.
When ESPN’s Mark Schlabach first reported that the FBI had wiretapped conversations of Miller discussing payments with Dawkins, the consensus in the media was that this news was completely damning and that Miller’s judgement day was imminent. After all, a head coach at one of the 10 most prestigious programs in the country getting caught on tape discussing a six-figure recruiting scheme with a runner from an agency is about as juicy and easy a case as the NCAA—an organization whose enforcement arm has botched cases more than a few times in recent years—could possibly ask for. In the days that followed, though, what was originally depicted as an open-and-shut case has been subject to increasing skepticism.
For starters, Schlabach’s story provided zero direct quotes from the wiretap, suggesting that he hasn’t listened to the recording or even seen a transcript of the call. Also, Schlabach said in a televised interview that the wiretapped call took place in the spring of 2017, which would mean that the discussion over payments to guarantee Ayton’s commitment took place after he had signed his national letter of intent in November 2016. ESPN issued a correction to its story and said that the alleged call took place in “spring of 2016,” a timeline that was later corrected yet again to read simply “2016.” But even that doesn’t completely clear up the time-frame issue when you consider that a 247Sports report from Monday includes this passage: “Sources say that the U.S. Attorney’s office notified multiple parties who had conversations with Dawkins that their phone calls had been recorded specifically during the dates of June 19, 2017 and Sept. 25, 2017.”
Further complicating matters is that, as CBS Sports’ Gary Parrish pointed out on Twitter, those who closely follow recruiting seem to think that Ayton and Dawkins never had much of a relationship, casting doubt on the notion that Dawkins would have been in position to “sell” Ayton’s services in the first place. And let’s not forget that that there’s likely a specific reason why this piece of information about the wiretap call was leaked to the media.
There are two questions surrounding Miller that keep tripping me up:
- Why would the head coach of Arizona handle his dirty business himself and not have an assistant serve as his fall guy, especially when the person on the other end of the purported interaction (Dawkins) was in his 20s?
- If the FBI had stone-cold proof that Miller offered a $100,000 bribe to land a sought-after recruit—which is what the public has been led to believe—why wasn’t Miller arrested along with the rest of the guys whom the FBI threw cuffs on in September?
To be clear, I’m not saying that Miller is innocent or that the tape in question doesn’t exist. For all that I know, the FBI might release a tape tomorrow in which Miller will be revealed to have said: “I, Sean Miller, head coach of the Arizona University Wildcats basketball team, will pay you, Christian Dawkins, $100,000 if you can convince Deandre Ayton to commit to my program. The payment will be made by placing stacks of non-consecutive $20 bills in a duffel bag that will be left behind the handicap toilet at Dirtbag’s on Wednesday at 2:15 a.m.”
All I’m saying is that it seems like nobody has concrete details as of now, which is why the smart move is to not rush to judgement until we do know something for certain. That is exactly the same conclusion the University of Arizona seems to have drawn by not placing Miller on administrative leave.
On ESPN's side? I think they have been lining up to wait for the right shoe to drop to issue a redaction or to issue an apology.Longhorned wrote:By the way, the legal aspect raised by Scheer, etc., is one of the things a media outlet normally addresses in a follow up to a breaking news report. Why are there no follow ups? Why do we know nothing more on Tuesday than the three sentences and reference to unnamed sources given on Friday? This isn't normal.
There's the money quote right there...NOTHING in 2016...97cats wrote:btw, Jason Scheer has been amazing throughout this entire process, Josh Gershon Brian Snow and Evan Daniels too - these guys have been tremendous.
they have mentioned that anyone who is caught on a federal wire is notified, I believe, 30 days within the capture and nobody at Arizona was notified in 2016 they were heard on a wire - they were however notified in june to august 2017 - but not 2016.
just thought I would leave that tidbit right here...
I mentioned that (a few pages earlier) I expect to see that on the ESPN corrections page soon.NYCat wrote:What if in the end either Schlabach's source or Schlabach himself got mixed up between Sean & Andy Miller.
I'm still holding on to this theory. Especially when '97 said before that Miller was informed of Book. If Miller gets informed, maybe he cooperates with the Feds because they want more evidence. Miller can't just tell Book that he's being monitored if FBI informs Miller of investigation, so he helps out instead. Would explain why everyone is tight lipped and Miller/University can't defend themselves since it's still an ongoing investigation. Miller knows he's risking reputation for now, but comes out with the "vindicated" statement because in the back of his mind he knows eventually the truth comes out.CalStateTempe wrote:I know it sounds crazy but to address that ringer articles two burning questions; why would Miller involve himself with a 20yo ish runner AND now be arrested in sept, isn’t it plausible that Miller was working with the feds to nail down the ASM network? Especially after being informed about books involvement? Hence why he really can’t talk about his involvement at the moment or give an outright denial?
I know it sounds nuts. And maybe I’m just an unhinged fan but that that explanation fits the timeline better than schlabachs theory.
Zero chance?
I used to think this theory was to outlandish, but this leak is starting to make me wonder, my daughter the DA told me that the FBI would ABSOLUTELY protect Millers name if he was a witness or used in the investigation...but that doesn't mean Dawkins would not know who the redacted person on the phone call was, and the way the leak came out it is clear whoever did it is playing a little loose with the facts...phxcat23 wrote:I'm still holding on to this theory. Especially when '97 said before that Miller was informed of Book. If Miller gets informed, maybe he cooperates with the Feds because they want more evidence. Miller can't just tell Book that he's being monitored if FBI informs Miller of investigation, so he helps out instead. Would explain why everyone is tight lipped and Miller/University can't defend themselves since it's still an ongoing investigation. Miller knows he's risking reputation for now, but comes out with the "vindicated" statement because in the back of his mind he knows eventually the truth comes out.CalStateTempe wrote:I know it sounds crazy but to address that ringer articles two burning questions; why would Miller involve himself with a 20yo ish runner AND now be arrested in sept, isn’t it plausible that Miller was working with the feds to nail down the ASM network? Especially after being informed about books involvement? Hence why he really can’t talk about his involvement at the moment or give an outright denial?
I know it sounds nuts. And maybe I’m just an unhinged fan but that that explanation fits the timeline better than schlabachs theory.
Zero chance?
My only concern is that Miller is guilty of paying recruits, but not in the obvious way of this supposed wiretap. If this theory is even remotely close about Miller working with the feds, I feel like specifically the FBI doesn't have anything on him, or he would have already been arrested. Book got greedy and did his own thing, the FBI happened to monitoring Book as he goes rogue to make some money on the side, and then CSM has to stop whatever his normal underground recruiting procedures are since he knows FBI are watching. I can't remember who the other poster was on here, but he had mentioned he used to be connected, and still has some people that are in the know, and he even said after talking with them something along the lines of Miller being in the same room as when the convo supposedly happened.CalStateTempe wrote:Exactly phxcat 23, It’s nuanced but all the little snippets of information do add up to at least paint this as a reasonable hypothesis.
Longhorned wrote:Strangest thing of all time: ESPN breaks news on Friday that Miller caught on wiretap discussing $100,000 for a player. By Tuesday, that breaking news is buried under everyday game summaries and a bunch of fluff about who's on the bubble and predictions for conference tournaments.
What happened to the big news that broke open the college basketball scandal, ESPN?
Yup. And it got a 20-second cursory mention on SC last night by Buccigross. And the only "new" thing he added to the original report was that he didn't coach practice yesterday.Longhorned wrote:Strangest thing of all time: ESPN breaks news on Friday that Miller caught on wiretap discussing $100,000 for a player. By Tuesday, that breaking news is buried under everyday game summaries and a bunch of fluff about who's on the bubble and predictions for conference tournaments.
What happened to the big news that broke open the college basketball scandal, ESPN?
Regarding Miller changing up SOP, this also makes sense considering right around the time when Miller would have been informed of the investigation we backed off Nassir Little, who ultimately went to Miami for cash and implicated that program with the FBI.phxcat23 wrote:My only concern is that Miller is guilty of paying recruits, but not in the obvious way of this supposed wiretap. If this theory is even remotely close about Miller working with the feds, I feel like specifically the FBI doesn't have anything on him, or he would have already been arrested. Book got greedy and did his own thing, the FBI happened to monitoring Book as he goes rogue to make some money on the side, and then CSM has to stop whatever his normal underground recruiting procedures are since he knows FBI are watching. I can't remember who the other poster was on here, but he had mentioned he used to be connected, and still has some people that are in the know, and he even said after talking with them something along the lines of Miller being in the same room as when the convo supposedly happened.CalStateTempe wrote:Exactly phxcat 23, It’s nuanced but all the little snippets of information do add up to at least paint this as a reasonable hypothesis.
Lol. Cool dudeOlsondogg wrote:
Weird I know, but all things considered it is the best thing for the program short and long term. Ride or Die with Miller for me.Olsondogg wrote:Hell hath frozen over, I agree with Machina.
I'm all done here guys.
Little actually wound up at UNC, and I'm sure there was absolutely no improper benefit issue there. Absolutely sure that all top prospects would be clean if not for Arizona and Miami.CalStateTempe wrote:Regarding Miller changing up SOP, this also makes sense considering right around the time when Miller would have been informed of the investigation we backed off Nassir Little, who ultimately went to Miami for cash and implicated that program with the FBI.phxcat23 wrote:My only concern is that Miller is guilty of paying recruits, but not in the obvious way of this supposed wiretap. If this theory is even remotely close about Miller working with the feds, I feel like specifically the FBI doesn't have anything on him, or he would have already been arrested. Book got greedy and did his own thing, the FBI happened to monitoring Book as he goes rogue to make some money on the side, and then CSM has to stop whatever his normal underground recruiting procedures are since he knows FBI are watching. I can't remember who the other poster was on here, but he had mentioned he used to be connected, and still has some people that are in the know, and he even said after talking with them something along the lines of Miller being in the same room as when the convo supposedly happened.CalStateTempe wrote:Exactly phxcat 23, It’s nuanced but all the little snippets of information do add up to at least paint this as a reasonable hypothesis.
Oh course he did! Wow didn’t know that.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Little actually wound up at UNC, and I'm sure there was absolutely no improper benefit issue there. Absolutely sure that all top prospects would be clean if not for Arizona and Miami.CalStateTempe wrote:Regarding Miller changing up SOP, this also makes sense considering right around the time when Miller would have been informed of the investigation we backed off Nassir Little, who ultimately went to Miami for cash and implicated that program with the FBI.phxcat23 wrote:My only concern is that Miller is guilty of paying recruits, but not in the obvious way of this supposed wiretap. If this theory is even remotely close about Miller working with the feds, I feel like specifically the FBI doesn't have anything on him, or he would have already been arrested. Book got greedy and did his own thing, the FBI happened to monitoring Book as he goes rogue to make some money on the side, and then CSM has to stop whatever his normal underground recruiting procedures are since he knows FBI are watching. I can't remember who the other poster was on here, but he had mentioned he used to be connected, and still has some people that are in the know, and he even said after talking with them something along the lines of Miller being in the same room as when the convo supposedly happened.CalStateTempe wrote:Exactly phxcat 23, It’s nuanced but all the little snippets of information do add up to at least paint this as a reasonable hypothesis.