Bear Down Wildcats

Plays Kentucky tonight. Can they both lose? Please?

One of the only times ever I'm rooting for KU I guess.

Speaking of things I hate...did enfuego ever make it through the site change to post here? I'm guessing no.

did enfuego migrate over?

Vote in the poll.

Didn't watch the Kentucky/Kansas game. Wish both teams could have been blown out. Oh well, if nothing else it should shut up the Jayhawk fans for awhile.

Go Cats!! (Arizona, that is.)

If I created a new thread and the board saved it as a "draft", wth did it go?

enfuego wrote:If I created a new thread and the board saved it as a "draft", wth did it go?

The same place Bill Self's real hair went.

Didn't see that Kelly Oubre play for Kansas nor did I see him on the bench.
Anybody know if he is hurt or what is up?
Thought he was suppose to play as a freshman and be pretty good? Not so?

He played. 1 FGA. Rest of stat line was 0fer.

CBCat wrote:Didn't see that Kelly Oubre play for Kansas nor did I see him on the bench.
Anybody know if he is hurt or what is up?
Thought he was suppose to play as a freshman and be pretty good? Not so?

He played in the first half. He's just not very good right now. Thinking the game. He's behind two 5* players at his position right now, Svi and Greene.

has oubre started yet? i thought he was supposed to be a one-and-done at ku. if not OAD, is there any concern that he could xfr?

kelly has plenty of time left, but to be fair to the kid, expecting him to be wiggins 2.0 is a pretty tall order

Wow, the hometown refs pulled through Kansas tonight.

Sweet 16 max for that team this year.

azcat34 wrote:Wow, the hometown refs pulled through Kansas tonight.

Sweet 16 max for that team this year.

Up 21 at the half, and the game comes down to the last possession?

Count that as an L.

#enfuegologic

UAEebs86 wrote:

azcat34 wrote:Wow, the hometown refs pulled through Kansas tonight.

Sweet 16 max for that team this year.

Up 21 at the half, and the game comes down to the last possession?

Count that as an L.

#enfuegologic

That argument only works when that happens against unranked teams. And is demonstrated by Arizona on a routine basis.

We got bored with the Utes and came out flat in the second half. Fourth win over a KenPom Top 20 team.

So in what world is a game in Kansas City with the ginormous Jayhawk on the floor a neutral site game?

Kansas is better than they seem because they're just more bored than other teams.

It's a solid, albeit barely, win today. Solid because Self and Kansas typically find ways to lose games like these, and, recently, haven't fared well against teams Arizona beats routinely like Colorado and San Diego State.

Love that 'fueg's is puffing his chest over this. Solid, homecourt advantage, win.

Nothing more.

But the Michigan State, Georgetown, Florida games, the one's you also barely won, I'm not sure they'll be highly regarded much longer. Georgetown is already slipped to #21, and none looked that impressive. Considering Kansas's struggles to shoot over 44% vs. quality competition, I imagine it's only a matter of time before that 40-42% shooting bites them in the ass.

JMarkJohns wrote:It's a solid, albeit barely, win today. Solid because Self and Kansas typically find ways to lose games like these, and, recently, haven't fared well against teams Arizona beats routinely like Colorado and San Diego State.

Love that 'fueg's is puffing his chest over this. Solid, homecourt advantage, win.

Nothing more.

But the Michigan State, Georgetown, Florida games, the one's you also barely won, I'm not sure they'll be highly regarded much longer. Georgetown is already slipped to #21, and none looked that impressive. Considering Kansas's struggles to shoot over 44% vs. quality competition, I imagine it's only a matter of time before that 40-42% shooting bites them in the ass.

Kansas Kenpom SOS: 5
Arizona Kenpom SOS: 228

That shooting percentage is skewed by the Kentucky game. Take that game out and we're at 44-45% compared to Arizona's 48-49% against cupcakes. We're also shooting 45% from three compared to Arizona's 37%.

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:It's a solid, albeit barely, win today. Solid because Self and Kansas typically find ways to lose games like these, and, recently, haven't fared well against teams Arizona beats routinely like Colorado and San Diego State.

Love that 'fueg's is puffing his chest over this. Solid, homecourt advantage, win.

Nothing more.

But the Michigan State, Georgetown, Florida games, the one's you also barely won, I'm not sure they'll be highly regarded much longer. Georgetown is already slipped to #21, and none looked that impressive. Considering Kansas's struggles to shoot over 44% vs. quality competition, I imagine it's only a matter of time before that 40-42% shooting bites them in the ass.

Kansas Kenpom SOS: 5
Arizona Kenpom SOS: 228

That shooting percentage is skewed by the Kentucky game. Take that game out and we're at 44-45% compared to Arizona's 48-49% against cupcakes. We're also shooting 45% from three compared to Arizona's 37%.

You've shot worse than 44% in half your games, including today in basically a home game.

Gonzaga and SDSU each have top-30 defense, the latter a top-5.

Michigan State, Georgetown and Florida have like 10 losses already, so ranking is mostly in preseason expectations rather than actual results, and Kansas struggled to defeat them all.

It's actually worse than I thought.

You haven't shot above 42% since Tennessee despite multiple home/quasi-home games, and you've shot worse than 42% 6 times thus far, worse than 40% 4 times, worse than 38% 3 times.

Longhorned wrote:Kansas is better than they seem because they're just more bored than other teams.

Enfuego is a joke

enfuego wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:

azcat34 wrote:Wow, the hometown refs pulled through Kansas tonight.

Sweet 16 max for that team this year.

Up 21 at the half, and the game comes down to the last possession?

Count that as an L.

#enfuegologic

That argument only works when that happens against unranked teams. And is demonstrated by Arizona on a routine basis.

We got bored with the Utes and came out flat in the second half. Fourth win over a KenPom Top 20 team.

Kansas got bored?

Self didn't look very bored when they were down 5 with 4 minutes left and got the local stripes to start calling phantoms all over the court.

Utes had a terrible game from 3 point land (4-19) and Kansas made 21-23 from the line. Difference in the game and if those numbers are more in line with season averages Utah wins this game fairly easily.

Coupled with the fact that game was a de facto home environment, not seeing a big tournament run barring huge improvement from KU this year.

enfuego wrote:We got bored with the Utes and came out flat in the second half.

So Bill Self has trouble motivating the Jayhawks to play a full 40 minutes at home against a top 15 team?

Good to know.

You build up a 21 point lead and you tend to coast. This team is young and against a team like Utah has to learn you just can't turn it back on.

Jmark your stats don't capture the level of competition Kansas is playing against versus the level of competition UA is playing (I am currently watching a replay of UA versus the powerhouse Utah Valley on the Pac 12 network right now Kenpom 280). I think Arizona's best "win" is against Gonzaga and if the referees called that blatant over the back and sent the Zags to the line in regulation, Arizona loses that game.

enfuego wrote:You build up a 21 point lead and you tend to coast. This team is young and against a team like Utah has to learn you just can't turn it back on.

Jmark your stats don't capture the level of competition Kansas is playing against versus the level of competition UA is playing (I am currently watching a replay of UA versus the powerhouse Utah Valley on the Pac 12 network right now Kenpom 280). I think Arizona's best "win" is against Gonzaga and if the referees called that blatant over the back and sent the Zags to the line in regulation, Arizona loses that game.

Arizona didn't coast

enfuego wrote:You build up a 21 point lead and you tend to coast. This team is young and against a team like Utah has to learn you just can't turn it back on.

Jmark your stats don't capture the level of competition Kansas is playing against versus the level of competition UA is playing (I am currently watching a replay of UA versus the powerhouse Utah Valley on the Pac 12 network right now Kenpom 280). I think Arizona's best "win" is against Gonzaga and if the referees called that blatant over the back and sent the Zags to the line in regulation, Arizona loses that game.

By the looks of Wesley choking at the line nothing was guaranteed.

Looks like Kentucky just scored again

ASUHATER! wrote:

enfuego wrote:You build up a 21 point lead and you tend to coast. This team is young and against a team like Utah has to learn you just can't turn it back on.

Jmark your stats don't capture the level of competition Kansas is playing against versus the level of competition UA is playing (I am currently watching a replay of UA versus the powerhouse Utah Valley on the Pac 12 network right now Kenpom 280). I think Arizona's best "win" is against Gonzaga and if the referees called that blatant over the back and sent the Zags to the line in regulation, Arizona loses that game.

Arizona didn't coast

Of course Arizona didn't coast. You can't coast when you are playing from behind the entire game.

If Arizona played the 13th-ranked team on a "neutral" court in Phoenix, built a 21 point lead, and let the game come down to the last possession, enflamo would be here posting about how soft and overrated Arizona was.

He focuses on one bad call in a game instead of looking at all the calls that went against Arizona that game.

He ignores the fact that the McKale crowd induced three misses in a row at the end of OT, but assumes they make them at the end of regulation.

He DVRs and watches the UVU game. Even Arizona fans don't do that. Obsess much?

Pure troll with no life.

enfuego wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:

enfuego wrote:You build up a 21 point lead and you tend to coast. This team is young and against a team like Utah has to learn you just can't turn it back on.

Jmark your stats don't capture the level of competition Kansas is playing against versus the level of competition UA is playing (I am currently watching a replay of UA versus the powerhouse Utah Valley on the Pac 12 network right now Kenpom 280). I think Arizona's best "win" is against Gonzaga and if the referees called that blatant over the back and sent the Zags to the line in regulation, Arizona loses that game.

Arizona didn't coast

Of course Arizona didn't coast. You can't coast when you are playing from behind the entire game.

We were behind to Michigan the entire game?

Can't wait to hear why not coasting against Michigan doesn't count. They're just a cupcake this year? They're so bad that even coasting anyone can blow them out? We should've beat them by 40? All of the above?

Quality of competition? Before Utah your three best wins had a total of 10 losses.

Arizona shot 45% against top-10 Gonzaga, a team with a top-30 defense.

You're a shitty offensive team.

JMarkJohns wrote:Quality of competition? Before Utah your three best wins had a total of 10 losses.

Arizona shot 45% against top-10 Gonzaga, a team with a top-30 defense.

You're a shitty offensive team.

And lost.

ASUHATER! wrote:

enfuego wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:

enfuego wrote:You build up a 21 point lead and you tend to coast. This team is young and against a team like Utah has to learn you just can't turn it back on.

Jmark your stats don't capture the level of competition Kansas is playing against versus the level of competition UA is playing (I am currently watching a replay of UA versus the powerhouse Utah Valley on the Pac 12 network right now Kenpom 280). I think Arizona's best "win" is against Gonzaga and if the referees called that blatant over the back and sent the Zags to the line in regulation, Arizona loses that game.

Arizona didn't coast

Of course Arizona didn't coast. You can't coast when you are playing from behind the entire game.

We were behind to Michigan the entire game?

Gonzaga.

UAEebs86 wrote:
He DVRs and watches the UVU game. Even Arizona fans don't do that. Obsess much?

Pure troll with no life.

I live in Scottsdale. I have Cox Communication. It carries the Pac-12 Network. That same channel was showing a replay of the UVU game. A DVR was not involved. Make things up much?

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:Quality of competition? Before Utah your three best wins had a total of 10 losses.

Arizona shot 45% against top-10 Gonzaga, a team with a top-30 defense.

You're a shitty offensive team.

And lost.

So a win is a loss now? Don't open the subjective Pandora's box considering Kansas has barely beat a bout of 3-loss teams.

JMarkJohns wrote:

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:Quality of competition? Before Utah your three best wins had a total of 10 losses.

Arizona shot 45% against top-10 Gonzaga, a team with a top-30 defense.

You're a shitty offensive team.

And lost.

So a win is a loss now? Don't open the subjective Pandora's box considering Kansas has barely beat a bout of 3-loss teams.

Technical Loss. Like technically defaulting on a loan. Like I'm still technically a virgin. It may be a W on the scoreboard, but it is something that the selection committee could factor into a decision on whether to give Arizona the #1 seed in the West or give it to Gonzaga. If I were on the committee, and that game was the deciding factor, Gonzaga gets my vote. Gonzaga's SOS (Kenpom) is 49 versus Arizona at 228.

As to Kansas being a poor shooting team, I pointed out the facts in my earlier post, one of which was our comparative SOS:

Kansas Kenpom SOS: 5
Arizona Kenpom SOS: 228

Is it your position that Kansas would shoot as poorly against cupcakes like Utah Valley, as they would against strong defensive teams such as Kentucky?

DVR or replay - you have no fucking life and you are a troll.

Your obsession with Arizona basketball is frightening - you really should seek professional help.

I've asked you before at TOS and you always refuse to answer - why do you hate Arizona so much? Which player took your lunch money?

I know why we all hate Kansas - it's because of you.

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:Quality of competition? Before Utah your three best wins had a total of 10 losses.

Arizona shot 45% against top-10 Gonzaga, a team with a top-30 defense.

You're a shitty offensive team.

And lost.

So a win is a loss now? Don't open the subjective Pandora's box considering Kansas has barely beat a bout of 3-loss teams.

Technical Loss. Like technically defaulting on a loan. Like I'm still technically a virgin. It may be a W on the scoreboard, but it is something that the selection committee could factor into a decision on whether to give Arizona the #1 seed in the West or give it to Gonzaga. If I were on the committee, and that game was the deciding factor, Gonzaga gets my vote. Gonzaga's SOS (Kenpom) is 49 versus Arizona at 228.

As to Kansas being a poor shooting team, I pointed out the facts in my earlier post, one of which was our comparative SOS:

Kansas Kenpom SOS: 5
Arizona Kenpom SOS: 228

Is it your position that Kansas would shoot as poorly against cupcakes like Utah Valley, as they would against strong defensive teams such as Kentucky?

Yes, and I've pointed out that the juggernauts on your schedule are merely names on a jersey this year beyond Kentucky and Utah, as Florida, Michigan State and Georgetown have a combined 10 losses as I type. That's not good.

And you're an idiot with "technical loss" as if somehow blowing a 20-point lead and barely hanging on vs. Utah in a defacto home game wouldn't also be considered a technical loss.

And Kansas hasn't just struggled against the big names on their schedule. They've had some stinkers vs. the no-name squads they've played as well.

I think the ceiling for this jayhawk team is the sweet 16 although they could sneak into a great 8 game if they can stay off the 4 line.

AZ will be the west 1 seed barring a poor PAC season, which is doubtful. We will play for a regional championship and a FF.

KU just is too inexperienced and doesn't shoot it well and defensively is subject to lapses. AZ lapses come on offense but they will be in every game due to that defense. We have too much leadership and PG play to not make a deep run. KU is talented but inexperience and spotty PG play will do them in earlier than fungus wants

enfuego wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:
He DVRs and watches the UVU game. Even Arizona fans don't do that. Obsess much?

Pure troll with no life.

I live in Scottsdale. I have Cox Communication. It carries the Pac-12 Network. That same channel was showing a replay of the UVU game. A DVR was not involved. Make things up much?

Fueg, you secretly like Arizona, the program, coach, players, style, philosophy. You respect it. No need to hide it anymore, it's okay to have Kansas as your #1 team, but I think I know your #2 team, even if you don't admit it. Heck, wouldn't be surprised if it's 1a and 1b at this point.

Bosy Billups wrote:

enfuego wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:
He DVRs and watches the UVU game. Even Arizona fans don't do that. Obsess much?

Pure troll with no life.

I live in Scottsdale. I have Cox Communication. It carries the Pac-12 Network. That same channel was showing a replay of the UVU game. A DVR was not involved. Make things up much?

Fueg, you secretly like Arizona, the program, coach, players, style, philosophy. You respect it. No need to hide it anymore, it's okay to have Kansas as your #1 team, but I think I know your #2 team, even if you don't admit it. Heck, wouldn't be surprised if it's 1a and 1b at this point.

1997

Never Forget!

JMarkJohns wrote:

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:

enfuego wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:Quality of competition? Before Utah your three best wins had a total of 10 losses.

Arizona shot 45% against top-10 Gonzaga, a team with a top-30 defense.

You're a shitty offensive team.

And lost.

So a win is a loss now? Don't open the subjective Pandora's box considering Kansas has barely beat a bout of 3-loss teams.

Technical Loss. Like technically defaulting on a loan. Like I'm still technically a virgin. It may be a W on the scoreboard, but it is something that the selection committee could factor into a decision on whether to give Arizona the #1 seed in the West or give it to Gonzaga. If I were on the committee, and that game was the deciding factor, Gonzaga gets my vote. Gonzaga's SOS (Kenpom) is 49 versus Arizona at 228.

As to Kansas being a poor shooting team, I pointed out the facts in my earlier post, one of which was our comparative SOS:

Kansas Kenpom SOS: 5
Arizona Kenpom SOS: 228

Is it your position that Kansas would shoot as poorly against cupcakes like Utah Valley, as they would against strong defensive teams such as Kentucky?

Yes, and I've pointed out that the juggernauts on your schedule are merely names on a jersey this year beyond Kentucky and Utah, as Florida, Michigan State and Georgetown have a combined 10 losses as I type. That's not good.

And you're an idiot with "technical loss" as if somehow blowing a 20-point lead and barely hanging on vs. Utah in a defacto home game wouldn't also be considered a technical loss.

And Kansas hasn't just struggled against the big names on their schedule. They've had some stinkers vs. the no-name squads they've played as well.

Well, Kenpom disagrees with these teams being merely the names on the front of their jerseys. They are all still in the Kenpom top 20. That said, Arizona has more experience, but less talent. Mason is not a natural point guard, but he's getting better every game. Our biggest weakness is our lack of post depth. We really only have Ellis and Alexander and a rotation of role players. So, it should be an interesting year. UConn won the title last year with less post depth, so don't count us out.

I think McCollum is overrated as is Tarczewski. Rondae is a great defender, Johnson gets better each game, and Ashley is one of the best 4's in the game. That said, I don't see Arizona getting past the Sweet 16 this year. But Kansas has a legitimate shot of winning the N.I.T. this year.

You can't see because your eyes are closed.

Well, Kenpom disagrees with these teams being merely the names on the front of their jerseys. They are all still in the Kenpom top 20. That said, Arizona has more experience, but less talent. Mason is not a natural point guard, but he's getting better every game. Our biggest weakness is our lack of post depth. We really only have Ellis and Alexander and a rotation of role players. So, it should be an interesting year. UConn won the title last year with less post depth, so don't count us out.

I think McCollum is overrated as is Tarczewski. Rondae is a great defender, Johnson gets better each game, and Ashley is one of the best 4's in the game. That said, I don't see Arizona getting past the Sweet 16 this year. But Kansas has a legitimate shot of winning the N.I.T. this year.

Contradict yourself much? It's okay to admit that Arizona is just better than Kansas this year.

If Kansas wins the NT this year then my Schwanz is 12 inches long

LMAO! Hoya bringing it.

Fuego: "I think McCollum is overrated as is Tarczewski. Rondae is a great defender, Johnson gets better each game, and Ashley is one of the best 4's in the game. That said, I don't see Arizona getting past the Sweet 16 this year. But Kansas has a legitimate shot of winning the N.I.T. this year."

1. Rondae is a great defender
2. Johnson gets better each game (he's the best player on the team, or right next to RHJ and BA)
3. Ashley is one of the best 4's in the game

Zeus may have been overrated, but he plays great defense and is a top college C

TJMC is a top level college point guard, and don't forget PJC for depth.

You don't see this team making it past the Sweet 16 this year? What 16 teams in the nation are better?

PS - the X factor, this team is NCAA Tournament Battle Tested, up to the Elite 8, losing on a last second shot. They've been there before.

UAEebs86 wrote:If Arizona played the 13th-ranked team on a "neutral" court in Phoenix, built a 21 point lead, and let the game come down to the last possession, enflamo would be here posting about how soft and overrated Arizona was.

This. x100.

I missed you enfuego. I for one am glad you made it over here.

Since the start of 2011, in the very heart of Self's "Woodenesque" run, Kansas has won only eight more games than us and lost only six fewer. Most of those eight games can be explained by Kansas's typically lucky 2012 run where they beat a double digit seed, beat a double digit seed, beat a double digit seed (which, for Kansas, is actually pretty shocking), beat the one seed whose best player broke his wrist, and didn't have to play the other one seed on their half of the bracket because their center was academically ineligible. (Why not include 2010? Well Miller wasn't fortunate enough to inherit a team that returned 10/12 players from a title-game team, like Self was when he took over the Kansas job, so I figured that year could probably get cut off.)

Besides 2012 they've never advanced further in the tournament than us in that time. In those three years they've had two losses to double-digit seeds and an all-timer choke-job against Michigan (true story: Kansas's KenPom win probability in that game was, best as I can tell, as high as it could go without actually winning). And we will be going farther in the tournament. Again.

As far as personnel, Kansas's stud wing recruit is playing fewer minutes than Landen Lucas. Of course, this won't stop him from going pro, along with Alexander, one of Kansas's only two meaningful players over 6'7". Wayne Selden and Brannen Greene still have not decided that they want to be full-time basketball players but I'm sure they'll be around for a couple more years to frustrate and disappoint Kansas fans. As far as when Oubre and Alexander leave, hey, at least they'll be replaced by Kansas's 2015 recruiting class, which at the moment, um, looks like...



Meanwhile, Arizona's got three five-stars and a four-star locked up for 2015 even assuming we don't get Ivan Rabb. Those players will go nicely next year with our returning sophomore center (didn't he play in Kansas?), our sophomore power forward, our senior shooting guard, our junior wing who might be our best returning player, and our sophomore point guard who is a star in the making.

But that's none of my business.

This board is now complete with Enfuego's triumphant appearance.