Bear Down Wildcats

Well, someone had to start this thread...

What does it mean for us if he comes here? It means ray doesn't have to be ready to be a key cog, and can have a supportive bench role. And that would be A VERY good thing.

Go get him CSM!

Mostly it means Stanley isn't coming back but we have an awesome stopgap replacement.

Honestly chi I don't think it means that at all. I just think it would mean Gabe, Kadeem, or Pitts (or even two of them) would in all likelihood transfer. Stanley would still be playing mostly at the two of he came back

If SJ comes back, I just don't think Arizona pursues Lee. It would hinder the devolpment of some of the freshmen. The focus would be on getting a PF to back up Anderson.

I don't see this anywhere except on the one site run by maniacs, legit rumor?

azcat34 wrote:I don't see this anywhere except on the one site run by maniacs, legit rumor?

They stole it from somewhere reputable.

Maryland is confident he's going there.

azcat34 wrote:I don't see this anywhere except on the one site run by maniacs, legit rumor?

We watched him steal it in real time.

Damion Lee would play the 3 with Ray Smith. So would Stanley Johnson. That's where the rotation gets impacted, not at the 2.

If this is the one and only grad transfer that Arizona takes, then the coaching staff is approaching the 4-spot in ways that differ from what we were talking about before.

Never seen him play. Does Arizona need another guard? 6'6" okay, but at forward, not so sure. Needs to be a little bigger on D?

Nice story on the kid. UA is mentioned, forgot how Drexel was kicking the Cat's butt at MSG until he got hurt.

Chicat wrote:

azcat34 wrote:I don't see this anywhere except on the one site run by maniacs, legit rumor?

They stole it from somewhere reputable.

Who was original source?

azcat34 wrote:

Chicat wrote:

azcat34 wrote:I don't see this anywhere except on the one site run by maniacs, legit rumor?

They stole it from somewhere reputable.

Who was original source?

I imagine Scout Premium: http://arizona.scout.com/forums/1667-se ... nter?s=106

This dude is premium there and posting at PGU:

97. Great thread

Why do people think Stanley is going to play the 2 if he returns? He was a 3 until Rondae moved into the starting lineup, and Rondae is the reason he moved to the 2. He's our starting SF if he returns.

rgdeuce wrote:Why do people think Stanley is going to play the 2 if he returns? He was a 3 until Rondae moved into the starting lineup, and Rondae is the reason he moved to the 2. He's our starting SF if he returns.

If he was really a 2, one would think he wouldn't have just won the Inaugural "Dr. J" award for best SF in college basketball. Like you said, he played the 2 for stretches only because Miller wanted his players on the court together.

Merkin wrote:

azcat34 wrote:

Chicat wrote:

azcat34 wrote:I don't see this anywhere except on the one site run by maniacs, legit rumor?

They stole it from somewhere reputable.

Who was original source?

I imagine Scout Premium: http://arizona.scout.com/forums/1667-se ... nter?s=106

This dude is premium there and posting at PGU:

Scout and PGU is a touchy subject, but personally i would never subscrice there for a multitude of reasons.

So this Lee kid is a 2? That would put York, Pitts, Trier and Lee there? Seems like over kill at that spot.

On the other hand if they are recruiting him with the idea that SJ will declare then it makes sense. Run a lot of 3 guard line ups and slot in an experienced scorer

Lee is 6'6" so he'd play the 3 next to Trier/York.

azcat49 wrote:So this Lee kid is a 2? That would put York, Pitts, Trier and Lee there? Seems like over kill at that spot.

On the other hand if they are recruiting him with the idea that SJ will declare then it makes sense. Run a lot of 3 guard line ups and slot in an experienced scorer

I think at 6'6 he is perfectly suited to play the 3. That's our biggest need IMO so it would be a huge get.

Thx men, that makes a bunch of sense now

Want this guy more than Tollefson. Just a personal preference, but if the choice has to be made, this guy helps the team in more matchups.

Both would be great, sure, but there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to the grad transfer player.

catgrad97 wrote:Want this guy more than Tollefson. Just a personal preference, but if the choice has to be made, this guy helps the team in more matchups.

Both would be great, sure, but there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to the grad transfer player.

Whether we need Tollefson or Lee more depends entirely on whether Rabb comes and/or Stanimal returns. If neither happens we could use both for sure but I'm leery of having that many one-year players and freshman. Roles might not be figured out until February.

Chicat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:Want this guy more than Tollefson. Just a personal preference, but if the choice has to be made, this guy helps the team in more matchups.

Both would be great, sure, but there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to the grad transfer player.

Whether we need Tollefson or Lee more depends entirely on whether Rabb comes and/or Stanimal returns. If neither happens we could use both for sure but I'm leery of having that many one-year players and freshman. Roles might not be figured out until February.

after watching what happened with Uconn two years ago and Michigan State this year, I'm not so sure that this is the worst thing. We will have so much talent that even as the team tries to gel they will still win a lot of ballgames. Whatever puts us in the best position to be ready come March, and adding seniors means a much smaller learning curve.

I'd rather see how Miller can develop four-year players for a change. Too much time has been spent since Mark Lyons dabbling in college hoops' version of free agency. Rather see more Bo Ryan and less John Calipari this summer, as no coach should spend more time re-recruiting existing players than developing them.

dcZONAfan wrote:

Chicat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:Want this guy more than Tollefson. Just a personal preference, but if the choice has to be made, this guy helps the team in more matchups.

Both would be great, sure, but there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to the grad transfer player.

Whether we need Tollefson or Lee more depends entirely on whether Rabb comes and/or Stanimal returns. If neither happens we could use both for sure but I'm leery of having that many one-year players and freshman. Roles might not be figured out until February.

after watching what happened with Uconn two years ago and Michigan State this year, I'm not so sure that this is the worst thing. We will have so much talent that even as the team tries to gel they will still win a lot of ballgames. Whatever puts us in the best position to be ready come March, and adding seniors means a much smaller learning curve.

I fear a situation where every year we have to replace 7+ key cogs because we keep pulling one year transfers and one-and-done freshmen to replace potential 4 year players who have transferred due to being recruited over. It seems like the antithesis of program building and at some point the NCAA is going to shut down the grad transfer loophole.

Now before you say "Yeah but Kentucky..." let's not forget the NIT year and the next where they massively underachieved until the tourney. I can see that becoming a pattern for them starting over this year. As CG said, more Bo Ryan, less Calipari please.

Im not a fan of the one year grad transfers, even when it works out for us. Hope it gets fixed

Chicat wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Chicat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:Want this guy more than Tollefson. Just a personal preference, but if the choice has to be made, this guy helps the team in more matchups.

Both would be great, sure, but there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to the grad transfer player.

Whether we need Tollefson or Lee more depends entirely on whether Rabb comes and/or Stanimal returns. If neither happens we could use both for sure but I'm leery of having that many one-year players and freshman. Roles might not be figured out until February.

after watching what happened with Uconn two years ago and Michigan State this year, I'm not so sure that this is the worst thing. We will have so much talent that even as the team tries to gel they will still win a lot of ballgames. Whatever puts us in the best position to be ready come March, and adding seniors means a much smaller learning curve.

I fear a situation where every year we have to replace 7+ key cogs because we keep pulling one year transfers and one-and-done freshmen to replace potential 4 year players who have transferred due to being recruited over. It seems like the antithesis of program building and at some point the NCAA is going to shut down the grad transfer loophole.

Now before you say "Yeah but Kentucky..." let's not forget the NIT year and the next where they massively underachieved until the tourney. I can see that becoming a pattern for them starting over this year. As CG said, more Bo Ryan, less Calipari please.

If we take on Lee or Tollefson we would have taken exactly 2 grad transfers in 7 years. I wouldn't consider that much of a trend. Also is there much of a difference between recruiting one and done talent over existing guys on the roster than there is recruiting a proven grad transfer? I get your point, but I think you're worried for no reason. If you can get better talent the only reason you shouldn't do it is if the guy is a cancer. If Arizona recruits Lee then the primary guy it effects is Ray Smith, who would be a back up for a year as opposed to being rushed into playing off a year where he has been rehabbing. If Arizona recruits Tellefson then the only guy effected is a senior anyways in Anderson, so it doesn't effect the future either.

I think Mark Lyons made sense when we took him, because we struck out on Ray McCallum and weren't left with much of anything. I think Damion Lee makes sense, because if Stanley leaves we'd have exactly one SF on the roster and he's a guy who didn't play a single game of basketball last year. Tellefson would make sense for depth purposes only if we took him unless of course the staff believes he can play the 3.

So far the few grad transfers we have or will take make complete sense and as long that's the case then the program is just fine and we're not comparing to Kentucky at all really in the good or bad sense.

rgdeuce wrote:Im not a fan of the one year grad transfers, even when it works out for us. Hope it gets fixed

The typical grad transfer will be guys who redshirted due to injuries or due to not being ready. So guys who have received their degree after 4 years of college should have to sit out another year and be in college for 6 years total is your opinion? That seems a bit extreme, especially in a sport where a college coach can go anywhere he wants without having to sit out. I don't think the transfer rules are broken whatsoever. I'm a fan of guys being rewarded for receiving their degrees in time and ending their career somewhere they want to be from a competitive stand point.

Chicat wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Chicat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:Want this guy more than Tollefson. Just a personal preference, but if the choice has to be made, this guy helps the team in more matchups.

Both would be great, sure, but there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to the grad transfer player.

Whether we need Tollefson or Lee more depends entirely on whether Rabb comes and/or Stanimal returns. If neither happens we could use both for sure but I'm leery of having that many one-year players and freshman. Roles might not be figured out until February.

after watching what happened with Uconn two years ago and Michigan State this year, I'm not so sure that this is the worst thing. We will have so much talent that even as the team tries to gel they will still win a lot of ballgames. Whatever puts us in the best position to be ready come March, and adding seniors means a much smaller learning curve.

I fear a situation where every year we have to replace 7+ key cogs because we keep pulling one year transfers and one-and-done freshmen to replace potential 4 year players who have transferred due to being recruited over. It seems like the antithesis of program building and at some point the NCAA is going to shut down the grad transfer loophole.

Now before you say "Yeah but Kentucky..." let's not forget the NIT year and the next where they massively underachieved until the tourney. I can see that becoming a pattern for them starting over this year. As CG said, more Bo Ryan, less Calipari please.

I hear you Chi. But it feels different in a situation where we aren't choosing these grad transfers over a possible incoming recruit. We have the schollies, and we have a few holes to fill. I don't see how bringing in either Tollefson or Lee effects Gabe and, honestly, from Day 1 Elliot was never going to be anything more than a role player. He is NOT good enough to play significant minutes in this program. I absolutely love having a guy like him, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he committed to this program because he thought it was going to get him to the NBA. I think he wanted to be part of a winning program first and foremost, or else he would have gone to a school like San Diego where he could have started as a freshman (just throwing out a random mid-major there).

Bringing in Lee helps us get to where we need to be as a program, and I hope that is something that excites EP, not makes him want to leave.

catgrad97 wrote:I'd rather see how Miller can develop four-year players for a change. Too much time has been spent since Mark Lyons dabbling in college hoops' version of free agency. Rather see more Bo Ryan and less John Calipari this summer, as no coach should spend more time re-recruiting existing players than developing them.

Even guys like Bo Ryan recruit one and done or two and done talent, whether they like to admit it publicly or not (Diamond Stone). It's the reality of college basketball today. Dekker was one of the highest rated wings in his class.

Bringing in grad transfers and traditional transfers to supplement your HS recruiting is more than fine by me. Miller isn't building Arizona with these guys. 15 will be a good year either way now that Zeus will be back why wouldn't you try and make it better by adding a talent like Lee or Tollefson if that is the case? Unless these kids are absolute headcases you think can poison the team, then it makes no sense not to add to the talent you have.

ChooChooCat wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Im not a fan of the one year grad transfers, even when it works out for us. Hope it gets fixed

The typical grad transfer will be guys who redshirted due to injuries or due to not being ready. So guys who have received their degree after 4 years of college should have to sit out another year and be in college for 6 years total is your opinion? That seems a bit extreme, especially in a sport where a college coach can go anywhere he wants without having to sit out. I don't think the transfer rules are broken whatsoever. I'm a fan of guys being rewarded for receiving their degrees in time and ending their career somewhere they want to be from a competitive stand point.

Takes most two years to earn their masters, no? Make em sit out a year and the school tie up a scholly for two years. Its just cheap to me, feels like a trade at the trading deadline knowing you arent going to re-sign at the end of the season. If you really want and need the dude, use two years of that scholarship spot

My concern is less about 15/16 and more about the years to come. Unless there are grad transfers that are good fits and want to play for Arizona every year, we'll be thin at certain positions (namely PF in '16). Where I think we run into danger is not having sophs/juniors coming off the bench trying to get better and earn playing time because we are recruiting over them plugging gaps with seniors looking to play on a bigger stage (read: "market myself to scouts").

Chicat wrote:My concern is less about 15/16 and more about the years to come. Unless there are grad transfers that are good fits and want to play for Arizona every year, we'll be thin at certain positions (namely PF in '16). Where I think we run into danger is not having sophs/juniors coming off the bench trying to get better and earn playing time because we are recruiting over them plugging gaps with seniors looking to play on a bigger stage (read: "market myself to scouts").

Assuming we don't land another PF that'll be available in 2016 we'd have:

TJ Leaf
Ray Smith

To man the spot. This year we had Brandon Ashley, Rondae, and maybe Stan, although I don't think Stan ever played the 4 for us. Barring injuries we should be ok like we were this year, but I'm sure we'll add another guy to that group somehow if need be (Josh Jackson definitely has the size to man the 4 in a pinch for us).

I get your point completely, but like I said 2 guys in 7 years does not equate to a trend. It always depends on HS recruiting and early defections. I don't think Sean Miller was expecting Craig Victor to leave before the year was even up when he was in for definite playing time next season with no Rabb on the roster. Your concern really can't be controlled when things like that happen unfortunately. Miller just like any other coach has to play the cards he's dealt. If Arizona doesn't land Rabb due to things outside of its control (looks like location on this one) then a grad transfer makes absolutely the most sense at this juncture.

Looks like Lee is visiting Arizona next weekend.

2 guys in 7 years could actually be 3 (Lee & Tollefson) and lead to more, and this is a direct result of Victor (the PF you forgot in your list of who we had last year) transferring. This is why I want Rabb as long as he's open to playing multiple years.

I don't know that Ray Smith would be an effective PF. So in '16 it would be Leaf and another freshman or a grad transfer unless we pull a traditional transfer this year.

I don't want to be Iowa State.
I don't really want to be Kentucky either.

Ideally we'll have solid guys in every class and not be stocked with freshman and graduated seniors. I feel like Miller's systems are so dependent on familiarity and cohesion and we just won't see that if more than half the team is playing their first season.

Chicat wrote:2 guys in 7 years could actually be 3 (Lee & Tollefson) and lead to more, and this is a direct result of Victor (the PF you forgot in your list of who we had last year) transferring. This is why I want Rabb as long as he's open to playing multiple years.

I don't know that Ray Smith would be an effective PF. So in '16 it would be Leaf and another freshman or a grad transfer unless we pull a traditional transfer this year.

I don't want to be Iowa State.
I don't really want to be Kentucky either.

Ideally we'll have solid guys in every class and not be stocked with freshman and graduated seniors. I feel like Miller's systems are so dependent on familiarity and cohesion and we just won't see that if more than half the team is playing their first season.

Well I forgot Victor for a reason, he wasn't part of the PF rotation in close games even when he was on campus. I'm with you on Rabb and it makes plenty sense.

Ray Smith would be an effective back up PF for the same reason Rondae Hollis-Jefferson was this past year. 6'8 guys with length can play the 4 in college. Hell 6'6 guys can if need be. Miller's first Elite 8 team started a guy who was 6'7 on a good day at the 4. For what it's worth I also listed Josh Jackson as another guy if we land him who could play the 4 spot in a pinch for us. We're also not done recruiting in 2016, maybe that Ike Anigbogu guy can play the 4 if we land him.

I don't know why we'd be either of those schools. Iowa State lives off grad transfers every year, we may have 2 in 7 years and that's only if Arizona doesn't land Rabb, which is out of Arizona's control. Kentucky is a product of numerous one and dones and even some of their guys stay for 2-3 years.

We're Arizona. Not a thing that Sean Miller is doing is wrong nor are the consequences he's in are his fault. He obviously wants Ivan Rabb to come to Arizona. He obviously didn't want Ray Smith to tear his ACL and miss an entire year of basketball. He's playing with the cards that are dealt his way. There's no better options in the HS ranks for him than Damion Lee or Mark Tellefson. I'd rather he take the one year rental to fill a hole to take this team to the highest peak it can than take a flyer on a kid who isn't good enough and is going to transfer because he's not anyways.

You may not want to be Iowa State or Kentucky, but you should not want to be the Arizona of 2010 either.

A grad transfer is a stopgap, not a philosophy. That's what I think Chi is pointing out. Harder than a lot of people think to just plug one in from another program, especially when so many teach differently than Miller's.

You don't go to more than one every couple of seasons unless you're desperate and your system has failed, frankly.

catgrad97 wrote:A grad transfer is a stopgap, not a philosophy. That's what I think Chi is pointing out. Harder than a lot of people think to just plug one in from another program, especially when so many teach differently than Miller's.

You don't go to more than one every couple of seasons unless you're desperate and your system has failed, frankly.

What do you mean by system exactly? If you mean recruiting then sure, we're only going this route because our recruiting failed us in regards to Rabb and you can argue recruiting a guy like Victor who wasn't all in was a failure in recruiting as well, but other than what I fail to see how the system has failed. I already pointed out what has put us in this situation and much of it is out of Miller's control and part of it stems from his success actually (losing 2 SFs in one year to the NBA).

It also remains to be seen if Arizona takes more than one grad transfer this class anyways. A lot of jumping to unfair conclusions in my opinion.

RHJ could play the 4 because he is an elite defender with sick quickness, hops, and reach. Sean Miller still wanted Ashley back.

I think Miller would tell you the ideal situation would be to have your top 8 guys all having multiple years in your system. I'd just like to ensure that we aren't so caught up in the now that when thinking about the future the answer is "eh, we'll just get a grad transfer". Guys like Damion Lee aren't always available.

I hear you about this being largely out of Miller's control, and I do think recruiting Chance was a good move as far as building talent in the front court. But I also want Trier, Smith, and Simon to get a lot of time next year because in 16/17 we can be scary good.

Lee would be the first grad transfer since Lyons. After Lee, there may not be another one ever as far as we know.

Ryan Anderson is kind of like a grad transfer in that we'll only get to see him on the court for one year.

And that's assuming Tollefson doesn't come here.

ChooChooCat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:A grad transfer is a stopgap, not a philosophy. That's what I think Chi is pointing out. Harder than a lot of people think to just plug one in from another program, especially when so many teach differently than Miller's.

You don't go to more than one every couple of seasons unless you're desperate and your system has failed, frankly.

What do you mean by system exactly? If you mean recruiting then sure, we're only going this route because our recruiting failed us in regards to Rabb and you can argue recruiting a guy like Victor who wasn't all in was a failure in recruiting as well, but other than what I fail to see how the system has failed. I already pointed out what has put us in this situation and much of it is out of Miller's control and part of it stems from his success actually (losing 2 SFs in one year to the NBA).

It also remains to be seen if Arizona takes more than one grad transfer this class anyways. A lot of jumping to unfair conclusions in my opinion.

It isn't an unfair conclusion, just what Miller had to do this year because of the last-minute seductions other coaches elsewhere have held out.

System = approach to developing college basketball players in a program, in this context, and Miller's is the furthest thing from failure that exists in Division I.

What you don't want to succumb to is the anxiety to get that Final Four now over investing four years in your student-athletes, and grad transfers and one-and-dones detract from that circle of college hoops life. Even Calipari can't stay out in front of that trend forever.

Did Anderson not graduate from BC, or was it just the coach got fired?

catgrad97 wrote:And that's assuming Tollefson doesn't come here.

ChooChooCat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:A grad transfer is a stopgap, not a philosophy. That's what I think Chi is pointing out. Harder than a lot of people think to just plug one in from another program, especially when so many teach differently than Miller's.

You don't go to more than one every couple of seasons unless you're desperate and your system has failed, frankly.

What do you mean by system exactly? If you mean recruiting then sure, we're only going this route because our recruiting failed us in regards to Rabb and you can argue recruiting a guy like Victor who wasn't all in was a failure in recruiting as well, but other than what I fail to see how the system has failed. I already pointed out what has put us in this situation and much of it is out of Miller's control and part of it stems from his success actually (losing 2 SFs in one year to the NBA).

It also remains to be seen if Arizona takes more than one grad transfer this class anyways. A lot of jumping to unfair conclusions in my opinion.

It isn't an unfair conclusion, just what Miller had to do this year because of the last-minute seductions other coaches elsewhere have held out.

System = approach to developing college basketball players in a program, in this context, and Miller's is the furthest thing from failure that exists in Division I.

What you don't want to succumb to is the anxiety to get that Final Four now over investing four years in your student-athletes, and grad transfers and one-and-dones detract from that circle of college hoops life. Even Calipari can't stay out in front of that trend forever.

Did Anderson not graduate from BC, or was it just the coach got fired?

It wouldn't mattered if he graduated from BC I don't believe. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a grad transfer only someone who has been granted an extra year due to redshirt and has also spent 4 years at the university (and received their degree)? Ryan Anderson played for 3 seasons and wanted to use his last year of eligibility to play for a winner, so he chose to transfer and HAD to sit out a year.

Had he already graduated from BC in 3 years, would he have been eligible to play for us this year? I don't think so, but I could be entirely wrong

The number of basketball/football players that graduate in 3 years has to be incredibly small. Only Arizona player who did that to my knowledge was . . . . Pastner.

catgrad97 wrote:And that's assuming Tollefson doesn't come here.

ChooChooCat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:A grad transfer is a stopgap, not a philosophy. That's what I think Chi is pointing out. Harder than a lot of people think to just plug one in from another program, especially when so many teach differently than Miller's.

You don't go to more than one every couple of seasons unless you're desperate and your system has failed, frankly.

What do you mean by system exactly? If you mean recruiting then sure, we're only going this route because our recruiting failed us in regards to Rabb and you can argue recruiting a guy like Victor who wasn't all in was a failure in recruiting as well, but other than what I fail to see how the system has failed. I already pointed out what has put us in this situation and much of it is out of Miller's control and part of it stems from his success actually (losing 2 SFs in one year to the NBA).

It also remains to be seen if Arizona takes more than one grad transfer this class anyways. A lot of jumping to unfair conclusions in my opinion.

It isn't an unfair conclusion, just what Miller had to do this year because of the last-minute seductions other coaches elsewhere have held out.

System = approach to developing college basketball players in a program, in this context, and Miller's is the furthest thing from failure that exists in Division I.

What you don't want to succumb to is the anxiety to get that Final Four now over investing four years in your student-athletes, and grad transfers and one-and-dones detract from that circle of college hoops life. Even Calipari can't stay out in front of that trend forever.

Did Anderson not graduate from BC, or was it just the coach got fired?

Great post. From an outside view it definitely appears to me that Miller is kind of in win big now mode. College basketball is considerably wide open next season and I think after the sour taste in his mouth after the last two seasons of falling just short he's looking to take advantage of it. At least that's how I read the Lee situation.

Anderson I believe needed surgery so he was going to miss considerable time last season if he went the recover and then play route. Also the head coach he played for was fired, so it was an easy decision for him to transfer, sit out the year and then play.

In regards to Chi's post I think no matter what Smith and Trier will get plenty of experience next year. I just don't know and doubt it'll come via 20 minutes a game or anything assuming Arizona lands Lee, but they'll get their run. I don't know where Simon fits in next year honestly though. A redshirt sounds good to me there if he's willing. In regards to Rondae playing the 4, there's no reason why Ray couldn't do the same for the very same reasons you mentioned. He's tall, he's long, he's more than athletic enough. Before Rondae we threw Jamelle Horne, Jesse Perry (as mentioned), and numerous guys during the Lute Olson years who really weren't PFs out there. In college basketball you can get away with it just fine, especially when you're only throwing guys out there for smaller portions of the game. Heck the national champions started a 6'6 wing at the 4, although I will admit he's much stronger than Smith at the same juncture.

Chicat wrote:The number of basketball/football players that graduate in 3 years has to be incredibly small. Only Arizona player who did that to my knowledge was . . . . Pastner.

Didn't Chris Rogers? Smart kid, but not a good basketball player.

Merkin wrote:

Chicat wrote:The number of basketball/football players that graduate in 3 years has to be incredibly small. Only Arizona player who did that to my knowledge was . . . . Pastner.

Didn't Chris Rogers? Smart kid, but not a good basketball player.

Tru?