Sean Miller

Catintheheat · Post by **Catintheheat** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:50 pm

This should not have been a down year. I've followed the Cats since 90 and I can't recall a year I had as high of expectations and the most disappointment. I know we have freshmen and perhaps I expected too much. However, I did expect some leadership. No one wanted the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Our PG should never be timid and lack confidence with the game on the line. Imagine if these players were to return.

I'm in the camp that thinks the player mix needs less OAD and more tough players who want to learn and stick around awhile. If we are going to keep recruiting OAD then just roll the ball out.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:51 pm

We're not in our current position because of the FBI and people need to stop using them as an excuse now.

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:53 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:We're not in our current position because of the FBI and people need to stop using them as an excuse now.

It is 100% contributing to the lack of patience with the program’s success (or lack thereof) this season after last years lost campaign

If Miller is still recruiting like he has stars in his eyes for ‘21 and ‘22, then sure...hit reset

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:09 pm

eoe wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We're not in our current position because of the FBI and people need to stop using them as an excuse now.
It is 100% contributing to the lack of patience with the program’s success (or lack thereof) this season after last years lost campaign

If Miller is still recruiting like he has stars in his eyes for ‘21 and ‘22, then sure...hit reset

If anything the FBI situation bought Miller an extra year of immense patience honestly.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:26 pm

Catintheheat wrote:This should not have been a down year. I've followed the Cats since 90 and I can't recall a year I had as high of expectations and the most disappointment. I know we have freshmen and perhaps I expected too much. However, I did expect some leadership. No one wanted the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Our PG should never be timid and lack confidence with the game on the line. Imagine if these players were to return.

I'm in the camp that thinks the player mix needs less OAD and more tough players who want to learn and stick around awhile. If we are going to keep recruiting OAD then just roll the ball out.

Three freshmen starting, lost Brandon Williams, dismissed our likely 1st guard off the bench, lost a senior starter to a chronic injury that may have caused him to tap out on his career, lost the off -the-bench sniper/instant offense to personal issues...the year after having no real recruiting class (given BWill and DD stories).

...and you are surprised we only won 20 games in the regular season? 1st round picks are picked on potential, in most respects, not instant impact. So, yeah, the 3 freshmen will be potential picks. But all three have flaws in their game...none of them are going to the L to tear it up for a while. Freshmen sometimes amaze, but more often are freshmen.

The irrational exuberance coming into this year was because we had a chance again. There's a reason we weren't picked to win the conference, and were a low top 25 pick. Our fans thinking there was more there than there was isn't reflective of issues. This team is completely rebuilt on the fly and went from disaster to 20 wins and a tournament appearance, very likely as the higher seed in a 1st round game. So, while yes...we were close in a lot of big games, we looked like a team run by freshmen, missing a huge piece in BWill, that lost another rotation guard, and 2 senior contributors down the stretch.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:30 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:We're not in our current position because of the FBI and people need to stop using them as an excuse now.

It sure didn't help. Who knows how the class before this one goes down without it. Was Bol Bol coming? Would we have to have signed DD as a reach?

It sure isn't the whole story...there is BWill's issue, losing seniors down the stretch, DD, etc. But we were, due to all of the above, required to depend upon 3 freshmen for big minutes and a long leash. This isn't all FBI, but it cost us a year of momentum.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:53 pm

I’ll speak for myself and just say that “rational” has nothing to do with it. Becoming a fan isn’t rational in the first place. So when it’s not fun for so long that you just irrationally lose interest, being rational and reasoning your way back to irrational fandom carries no positive jolt.

It’s been too many years of not fun. This wasn’t meant to be a chore. Being a player or a coach isn’t supposed to be fun, but if done really well it should seem fun to outsiders, and be actual fun for the students and alumni. It isn’t my job to stick through all the drama and a coach who’s so emphatically exasperated all the time.

Catintheheat · Post by **Catintheheat** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:32 pm

Longhorned wrote:I’ll speak for myself and just say that “rational” has nothing to do with it. Becoming a fan isn’t rational in the first place. So when it’s not fun for so long that you just irrationally lose interest, being rational and reasoning your way back to irrational fandom carries no positive jolt.

It’s been too many years of not fun. This wasn’t meant to be a chore. Being a player or a coach isn’t supposed to be fun, but if done really well it should seem fun to outsiders, and be actual fun for the students and alumni. It isn’t my job to stick through all the drama and a coach who’s so emphatically exasperated all the time.

This is a really good post. And yes, most of the time I don't find Miller's teams fun to watch anymore. They are fun to watch on occasion, like the Illinois game this season, but overall I start watching and then fast forward watching for moments of fun. (I record a lot of the games). When the score gets out of hand (happens way too often) I just shut the game off. I have a lot of things I like doing. To be fair I don't like college basketball like in the past. Because of the OAD, leaving early, and transferring it's lost its magic. My favorite part of college basketball is to watch the development of players and their maturity. We are denied that mostly now. I don't know how much this is on Miller. I just know college basketball has lost a lot of its entertainment value.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:00 am

Right there with LH and CITH

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:11 am

For me personally, the NBA is utterly unwatchable. I wouldn't sit through a two hour game of that crap if you paid me.

The college game and the instant gratification (pit stop) culture has reduced my love for it to almost an afterthought as well.

I still love to watch the Cats from time to time but it's not the unwavering following as years past.

The college game just isn't the gold standard anymore in my eyes and unfortunately my beloved Cats are apart of the dynamic.

It's just a hunk a fools gold in my eye's.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:22 am

There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:24 am

If I was Miller, I'd find another job, leave and tell the Pac 12 to fuck off.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:26 am

Longhorned wrote:There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.

My apologies, I didn't mean to interrupt you're important and dynamic Arizona Basketball talking points with my stupid and shallow nonsense.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:32 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.
My apologies, I didn't mean to interrupt you're important and dynamic Arizona Basketball talking points with my stupid and shallow nonsense.

I think he was calling your post poetry and paying you a compliment.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:40 am

Chicat, thanks for the clarification. I'll crawl back under my rock now.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:43 am

EVCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We're not in our current position because of the FBI and people need to stop using them as an excuse now.
It sure didn't help. Who knows how the class before this one goes down without it. Was Bol Bol coming? Would we have to have signed DD as a reach?

It sure isn't the whole story...there is BWill's issue, losing seniors down the stretch, DD, etc. But we were, due to all of the above, required to depend upon 3 freshmen for big minutes and a long leash. This isn't all FBI, but it cost us a year of momentum.

We would've landed Bol. Nassir Little, B William's, Quinerly. And O'Neal. In other words that entire recruiting class wouldn't be playing at Arizona this year for one reason or another. The FBI situation bought Miller an extra year of patience because it seemed like a very valid excuse.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:29 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.
My apologies, I didn't mean to interrupt you're important and dynamic Arizona Basketball talking points with my stupid and shallow nonsense.

Compare your line-by-line composition above with my stilted prose a couple of posts up and tell me which one exudes the stupid and shallow nonsense.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:02 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
EVCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We're not in our current position because of the FBI and people need to stop using them as an excuse now.
It sure didn't help. Who knows how the class before this one goes down without it. Was Bol Bol coming? Would we have to have signed DD as a reach?

It sure isn't the whole story...there is BWill's issue, losing seniors down the stretch, DD, etc. But we were, due to all of the above, required to depend upon 3 freshmen for big minutes and a long leash. This isn't all FBI, but it cost us a year of momentum.
We would've landed Bol. Nassir Little, B William's, Quinerly. And O'Neal. In other words that entire recruiting class wouldn't be playing at Arizona this year for one reason or another. The FBI situation bought Miller an extra year of patience because it seemed like a very valid excuse.

But would we have crushed a weak PAC and gotten to the 2nd weekend or better with that class last year? We agree the FBI thing is a valid excuse, or a reason, but part of the grumbling this year is because we haven't been 2nd weekend/challenging for FF for 3 years now. Last year might have been successful without the bullshit. At the very least, we would have likely won another PAC and had a ton of momentum rolling into last year's tourney.

I hear what you are saying, in that there was mutual cooling with Sean and the program. But I see people acknowledge the last year, maybe 2, have been impacted by that shit, then use it as part if the discontent. All i am saying is either you believe Schlabach was full of shit and Sean wasn't aware of Book, or not...but if a fan does believe that, they have to understand he has been stretched thin fighting on all fronts, and to think this good, not elite, class with Jeter, Smith and company, depending on 3 freshmen for 32+ minutes a game, was a sure return to greatness that Miller has ruined is a bit ridiculous. There was a chance this team would blow up, but it was always too young where it mattered and not backfilled with much help, especially when BWill, DD, Hazzard and even Jeter were lost, BWill and DD being entire season impacts.

But, yeah...I hear you that there was tension there before the FBI

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:05 am

For the record, my complaints of millers recruiting composition, roster management, in game adjustments, preparation, and overly intense affect crumping our style in big games predates the FBI situation by about three years.

But I also acknowledge the the average UofA basketball fan doesn’t have a memory that long.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:24 am

Is there a game today?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:29 am

CalStateTempe wrote:For the record, my complaints of millers recruiting composition, roster management, in game adjustments, preparation, and overly intense affect crumping our style in big games predates the FBI situation by about three years.

But I also acknowledge the the average UofA basketball fan doesn’t have a memory that long.

I get that. And I am one of those "remember when we won the Great Alaska Shootout and shut down a Palin-exhausted Glen Rice?" old guys.

I just don't know who can control "recruiting composition" because you never know when you are getting a presumed OAD that stays 4 years, or a glue guy that blows up to be the #2 pick after his Sophomore year. The idea of "roster composition" being this smooth blend of all classes is, to me, a total hindsight science. I've seen in-game adjustments that are subtle but awesome, like going to Josh at the 4 in a tight game earlier this year when we were getting the zone shot at the elbow but no one was knocking it down. Josh got the same look, pump faked, and blew past his defender for a dunk that sealed (I cannot remember which game). Those things are never remembered...only the failures. Sean is reckless with his time outs, and presses too much, and not all players respond to playing under a microscope. Those are complaints I share with many. But I also don't think he is somehow a different coach than he was in 2011...sometimes March goes great, sometimes it doesn't, but we were consistently in a position to compete until all hell broke loose in 2017, and then the ESPN February 2018 pile on.

That's my take. He isn't perfect, and he is young enough to change some, but the pressure cooker he is in right now is enhancing the worst of his traits.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:43 am

I agree with much of your post EV but disagree on the “young and capacity to change” when there has been no such change demonstrated by Miller in light of outcomes in the last 5-6years of his tenure.

Hence this fans pessimism in the future of cats bb with miller at the helm.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:51 am

The two main changes I see from him is wanting to push the ball and score quickly/more uptempo offense, and slightly tweeking the Packline, or allowing more freedom to more players, to jump passing lanes. Josh says in that recent Q and A that it was an adjustment to not always jump passing lanes (which is instant advantage offense for the other team if you miss), but we have seen more run outs on steals from jumped passing lanes this year than probably 2014, when TJ and others were given more freedom. We also see more trapping from a 2nd defender leaving the packline, and not on a "dead" dribble.

And it is worth adding that we have used zone out of time outs or on big possessions to confuse the opposition. It is used just enough to work, not so much for the opponent to prepare for. It is truly a surprise when we do it, and has been very effective when used.

Again...your mileage may vary. Just my observations.

IndianaZonaFan · Post by **IndianaZonaFan** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:23 am

EVCat wrote:The two main changes I see from him is wanting to push the ball and score quickly/more uptempo offense, and slightly tweeking the Packline, or allowing more freedom to more players, to jump passing lanes. Josh says in that recent Q and A that it was an adjustment to not always jump passing lanes (which is instant advantage offense for the other team if you miss), but we have seen more run outs on steals from jumped passing lanes this year than probably 2014, when TJ and others were given more freedom. We also see more trapping from a 2nd defender leaving the packline, and not on a "dead" dribble.

And it is worth adding that we have used zone out of time outs or on big possessions to confuse the opposition. It is used just enough to work, not so much for the opponent to prepare for. It is truly a surprise when we do it, and has been very effective when used.

Again...your mileage may vary. Just my observations.

100%. Where are all of the “Miller refuses to use a zone and only uses 1 defensive strategy” people at? He’s changed things up a lot this year to EV’s point. People aren’t happy when we DWWD, and they aren’t happy or are too blind to see when he changes things up.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:10 am

Longhorned wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.
My apologies, I didn't mean to interrupt you're important and dynamic Arizona Basketball talking points with my stupid and shallow nonsense.
Compare your line-by-line composition above with my stilted prose a couple of posts up and tell me which one exudes the stupid and shallow nonsense.

Longhorn, my sincere apologies if I misunderstood you're reply. I think the "poetry" part knocked me a little off kilter.

I'm not very good at this stuff sometimes so most of the time I mostly lurk.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:12 am

If you are not often misunderstanding Longhorned I would be more worried about you.

I currently employ a team of 7 scholars to interpret his posts.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:20 am

Alieberman wrote:If you are not often misunderstanding Longhorned I would be more worried about you.

I currently employ a team of 7 scholars to interpret his posts.

Alieberman, so true, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:23 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.
My apologies, I didn't mean to interrupt you're important and dynamic Arizona Basketball talking points with my stupid and shallow nonsense.
Compare your line-by-line composition above with my stilted prose a couple of posts up and tell me which one exudes the stupid and shallow nonsense.
Longhorn, my sincere apologies if I misunderstood you're reply. I think the "poetry" part knocked me a little off kilter.

I'm not very good at this stuff sometimes so most of the time I mostly lurk.

No worries at all. To be honest, Chicat's response was just better and funnier than my original thought, which wasn't a comment on your post. I was just suggesting the poetry thread as a replacement for our diminishing interests in basketball, which is still a little funny, I hope.

Alieberman wrote:If you are not often misunderstanding Longhorned I would be more worried about you.

I currently employ a team of 7 scholars to interpret his posts.

Try a team of 7 plumbers instead. Those guys just get me.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:40 am

Seven scholars, seven plumbers, seven basic elements in a Shakespearean play. You guys are on to something. Sevun!

In any passage of Shakespearean text there are seven basic elements you should learn to look out for:
- [ ] Apposition (the juxtaposition of words, phrases and ideas inside a speech)
- [ ] Metaphor (similes, comparisons and flights of fancy)
- [ ] Metre and pulse
- [ ] Line endings
- [ ] Word play (rhyme, alliteration, and assonance)
- [ ] Vocabulary
- [ ] Shape and structure

I shall call these plumbing. Plumbing is a useful analogy because pipes carry an essential commodity, water, all around the house and, by and large, are invisible. These seven elements in Shakespeare’s writing are also essential because they carry the meaning, the character, the atmosphere and the cosmology of play. It’s a hugely valuable lesson to learn the basics of plumbing, to learn the rules and the dos and don’ts of craft, because they will give you the power and the authority to appreciate the magnificence of the building, the play.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:42 am

Longhorned wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:There's a poetry thread in the General Discussion board.
My apologies, I didn't mean to interrupt you're important and dynamic Arizona Basketball talking points with my stupid and shallow nonsense.
Compare your line-by-line composition above with my stilted prose a couple of posts up and tell me which one exudes the stupid and shallow nonsense.
Longhorn, my sincere apologies if I misunderstood you're reply. I think the "poetry" part knocked me a little off kilter.

I'm not very good at this stuff sometimes so most of the time I mostly lurk.
No worries at all. To be honest, Chicat's response was just better and funnier than my original thought, which wasn't a comment on your post. I was just suggesting the poetry thread as a replacement for our diminishing interests in basketball, which is still a little funny, I hope.

Alieberman wrote:If you are not often misunderstanding Longhorned I would be more worried about you.

I currently employ a team of 7 scholars to interpret his posts.
Try a team of 7 plumbers instead. Those guys just get me.

I use Alex Karras

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:43 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Is there a game today?

Rumored.

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:51 pm

UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:27 pm

enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.

Pretty sure Sean Miller would agree with you.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:41 pm

enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.

Yes, that has been the overriding theme of this season. As a Kansas fan and adversary, you must be thrilled.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:13 pm

eoe wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
EVCat wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:[

exactly what seems fickle? and how does it seem that way?
You hear people grumbling in the stands, on social media, etc, and it has a sharper focus regarding "who's next?" The chatter about getting rid of Miller has clearly picked up among the fanbase. It's right in your face now, and some of it is people weary from all the hits the program has taken, whether deserved or not. I am not saying I don't understand it, but the fanbase has shifted some. I assume he feels it, too. I doubt he'd admit it

Overall, Tucson has been great, like i said. But there are cracks in the foundation...
I guess I just don't view a fanbase that has given the guy over a decade, including amazing support after a scandal, and has grown weary of a coach that refuses to grow and adapt and learn how to expand on his potential, as "fickle".
It’s a bit irrational to openly shout for a replacement on a down year with a coach who has a top 15 all time winning percentage among coaches with an extensive past, yes, that is better than Lute as well.

Winning your conference every other year, reaching the elite eight every 3 years, and being consistently ranked in the top 25 is something very few programs can boast...

Certainly the type of recruit and program building has become more sensationalist after falling short of the final four repeatedly, but that is correctable in 2021

I just do not see any way Miller could do worse than the past couple of years knowing his prior success recruiting/coaching and I see no way we could do better with any other realistic coach. Sucking it up a couple of years, while the FBI mess is left to settle is the best recourse. Of course, I am probably way less bullish on what the Arizona “program” means than most of you. Fans delude themselves into believing a Pitino wants to come and are absolutely astounded when a Tim Floyd shows up.

I completely agree with virtually this entire post, with the exception of my prognosis moving forward.

Despite the frustrations (mine included) with not having reached the Final 4 after some valiant attempts and close calls, I think Miller's record for his first several years here was exceptional, and I believe it is highly unlikely we will find a replacement to equal that composite body of work. Accordingly, it is also why I have remained an ardent supporter, and refused to saddle him with the entirely of the 'blame' for not getting over that elusive hurdle, which involves a significant degree of chance.

I suspect that 10 years from now the army of newbie fans who have declared that "conference championships and Elite 8's mean nothing" might view those accomplishments differently.

That said, Miller's program has devolved in recent years and there is no apparent sign of a reversal in trend. This year held out so much hope, with an exceptional recruiting class to include a bona fide point guard (or so we thought) - and IMO it has turned out to be his most disappointing season yet (at least from my perspective). With all 3 freshmen expected to leave, along with several other contributors who will have exhausted their eligibility (and a group coming in that will not begin to replace the departures), I think it is time to make a change.

Miller has peaked here, and I do not see him returning to that level anytime in the foreseeable future. Sometimes a change is best for all parties involved. It is not necessarily anyone's fault, and the wisdom of the choice is based on current circumstances, which is all we have on which to make a current assessment; no one has a crystal ball. The Andy Reid situation in Philadelphia comes to mind - and that one turned out nicely for both parties.

I appreciate what Coach Miller has done here, and wish him well. I would not at all be surprised to see him excel at another program (and hope he does), but believe his tenure in Tucson has run its course.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:16 pm

enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.

And yet you picked us to finish fourth or lower in the Pac-12 this year...

http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... 08#p408208" target="_blank

Look at you! You were right about something! Although you were simultaneously very wrong about Washington and Utah.

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:04 pm

Chicat wrote:
enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.
And yet you picked us to finish fourth or lower in the Pac-12 this year...

http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... 08#p408208" target="_blank

Look at you! You were right about something! Although you were simultaneously very wrong about Washington and Utah.

Isn't Washington's point guard out? Utah was a miss.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:08 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:For me personally, the NBA is utterly unwatchable. I wouldn't sit through a two hour game of that crap if you paid me.

The college game and the instant gratification (pit stop) culture has reduced my love for it to almost an afterthought as well.

I still love to watch the Cats from time to time but it's not the unwavering following as years past.

The college game just isn't the gold standard anymore in my eyes and unfortunately my beloved Cats are apart of the dynamic.

It's just a hunk a fools gold in my eye's.

Totally agree.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
97cats wrote:ESPN: What is the biggest impact Sean Miller has had on you?

Green: Holding me accountable. ... He is not afraid to get on me. He doesn't care who you are, where you come from, he will get onto me and will do it in a way in which I can understand. Not too many coaches will really go out there to really get into a player. I respect it. At the time, it feels terrible but then when you think about it and you're able to put what he said onto the court, it comes together. I respect him a lot more for being able to have that relationship with me and it just shows that he cares about me and he wants the best for me.
ESPN: So does that mean you plan to continue your matriculation at UofA and resume working with Coach Miller to become a better all around player before moving on to the next level?

Green: Aw, hell no. After next week, it's time to find me an agent, mate (because he's Australian).

Green has shown glimpses of dynamic play off and on during the season. Had this been a different era and he stayed for another year or two, he could have been one of the great Wildcats in program history.

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:06 pm

Catintheheat wrote:This should not have been a down year. I've followed the Cats since 90 and I can't recall a year I had as high of expectations and the most disappointment. I know we have freshmen and perhaps I expected too much. However, I did expect some leadership. No one wanted the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Our PG should never be timid and lack confidence with the game on the line. Imagine if these players were to return.

I'm in the camp that thinks the player mix needs less OAD and more tough players who want to learn and stick around awhile. If we are going to keep recruiting OAD then just roll the ball out.

How many new players start on this team? How many freshman? How many teams start a guy that everyone says shouldn't play a minute. How many teams have a guy that was all tourney in Anaheim and is a head case whenever criticized and can't get off the bench? How many teams have a guy that has sat out as a grad transfer for personal reason (and cost us a game)? Expectation of fans are never met. We lost 3-4 games to me that we should have won. Ariz State, St. John's, Oregon State and probably UCLA at home where we shot the worst on record.

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:09 pm

Chicat wrote:
enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.
And yet you picked us to finish fourth or lower in the Pac-12 this year...

http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... 08#p408208" target="_blank

Look at you! You were right about something! Although you were simultaneously very wrong about Washington and Utah.

Enfuego is especially wrong about the NCAA investigation of Kansas......5 level 1 in bball and a couple level 2's in football?

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:24 pm

enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.

Couldn't agree more. It's become par for the course if you're an Arizona basketball fan. I'm desensitized to the mediocrity at this point.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:26 pm

TheCat wrote:
Catintheheat wrote:This should not have been a down year. I've followed the Cats since 90 and I can't recall a year I had as high of expectations and the most disappointment. I know we have freshmen and perhaps I expected too much. However, I did expect some leadership. No one wanted the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Our PG should never be timid and lack confidence with the game on the line. Imagine if these players were to return.

I'm in the camp that thinks the player mix needs less OAD and more tough players who want to learn and stick around awhile. If we are going to keep recruiting OAD then just roll the ball out.
How many new players start on this team? How many freshman? How many teams start a guy that everyone says shouldn't play a minute. How many teams have a guy that was all tourney in Anaheim and is a head case whenever criticized and can't get off the bench? How many teams have a guy that has sat out as a grad transfer for personal reason (and cost us a game)? Expectation of fans are never met. We lost 3-4 games to me that we should have won. Ariz State, St. John's, Oregon State and probably UCLA at home where we shot the worst on record.

I definitely agree. There was just so much bad luck this year (but it seems the same every year), with BWill, Doutrive to start, then Jeter (injury or head case, IDK), and Hazzard and Baker just not living up to expectations. And the freshmen not really seeming to improve much during the season. I don't know how much of that can be blamed on Miller, particularly with the freshmen because our recruiting class was "highly rated" by just about everyone

I also agree with those who say Miller's system needs players who stay for more than one year. I guess I am too lazy to Google it, but isn't the OAD era coming to an end next year? Or is it the year after, where players can go straight from high school to the NBA? Wouldn't that development result in more players staying for more than one year? I believe Miller will thrive with more 2,3,4 year players. And I hope he gets the chance to show it here at Arizona.

eoe · Post by **eoe** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:56 pm

Miller looked infinitely more relaxed today (all game long), less critical in his interviews, didn’t erase Baker’s existence with that horrible floater up 6 and 18 on the shot clock. Me thinks he’s being purposeful with his demeanor

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:20 pm

BBQ wildcat wrote:
TheCat wrote:
Catintheheat wrote:This should not have been a down year. I've followed the Cats since 90 and I can't recall a year I had as high of expectations and the most disappointment. I know we have freshmen and perhaps I expected too much. However, I did expect some leadership. No one wanted the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Our PG should never be timid and lack confidence with the game on the line. Imagine if these players were to return.

I'm in the camp that thinks the player mix needs less OAD and more tough players who want to learn and stick around awhile. If we are going to keep recruiting OAD then just roll the ball out.
How many new players start on this team? How many freshman? How many teams start a guy that everyone says shouldn't play a minute. How many teams have a guy that was all tourney in Anaheim and is a head case whenever criticized and can't get off the bench? How many teams have a guy that has sat out as a grad transfer for personal reason (and cost us a game)? Expectation of fans are never met. We lost 3-4 games to me that we should have won. Ariz State, St. John's, Oregon State and probably UCLA at home where we shot the worst on record.

I definitely agree. There was just so much bad luck this year (but it seems the same every year), with BWill, Doutrive to start, then Jeter (injury or head case, IDK), and Hazzard and Baker just not living up to expectations. And the freshmen not really seeming to improve much during the season. I don't know how much of that can be blamed on Miller, particularly with the freshmen because our recruiting class was "highly rated" by just about everyone

I also agree with those who say Miller's system needs players who stay for more than one year. I guess I am too lazy to Google it, but isn't the OAD era coming to an end next year? Or is it the year after, where players can go straight from high school to the NBA? Wouldn't that development result in more players staying for more than one year? I believe Miller will thrive with more 2,3,4 year players. And I hope he gets the chance to show it here at Arizona.

Ive heard that the draft in 2021 might not have the one year removed from high school requirement. Not sure if that is still the expected path.

Looking forward to that day. There will still be one and dones, just not as many.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:44 pm

U.P. Zona Fan wrote:
BBQ wildcat wrote:
TheCat wrote:
Catintheheat wrote:This should not have been a down year. I've followed the Cats since 90 and I can't recall a year I had as high of expectations and the most disappointment. I know we have freshmen and perhaps I expected too much. However, I did expect some leadership. No one wanted the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Our PG should never be timid and lack confidence with the game on the line. Imagine if these players were to return.

I'm in the camp that thinks the player mix needs less OAD and more tough players who want to learn and stick around awhile. If we are going to keep recruiting OAD then just roll the ball out.
How many new players start on this team? How many freshman? How many teams start a guy that everyone says shouldn't play a minute. How many teams have a guy that was all tourney in Anaheim and is a head case whenever criticized and can't get off the bench? How many teams have a guy that has sat out as a grad transfer for personal reason (and cost us a game)? Expectation of fans are never met. We lost 3-4 games to me that we should have won. Ariz State, St. John's, Oregon State and probably UCLA at home where we shot the worst on record.

I definitely agree. There was just so much bad luck this year (but it seems the same every year), with BWill, Doutrive to start, then Jeter (injury or head case, IDK), and Hazzard and Baker just not living up to expectations. And the freshmen not really seeming to improve much during the season. I don't know how much of that can be blamed on Miller, particularly with the freshmen because our recruiting class was "highly rated" by just about everyone

I also agree with those who say Miller's system needs players who stay for more than one year. I guess I am too lazy to Google it, but isn't the OAD era coming to an end next year? Or is it the year after, where players can go straight from high school to the NBA? Wouldn't that development result in more players staying for more than one year? I believe Miller will thrive with more 2,3,4 year players. And I hope he gets the chance to show it here at Arizona.
Ive heard that the draft in 2021 might not have the one year removed from high school requirement. Not sure if that is still the expected path.

Looking forward to that day. There will still be one and dones, just not as many.

**********ESPN Warning!!!**********

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/238 ... y-shift-21" target="_blank

The memo does not mention the one-and-done rule by name, but it is meant to remind teams that the league and the players union could agree to scrap one-and-done before the expiration of the current collective bargaining deal in 2024 -- and perhaps well before then, sources say. The memo says that, as of now, the league does not expect changes in draft eligibility rules to take place at any time "prior to the 2021 or 2022 draft."

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:27 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
enfuego wrote:UA has too much talent, even young talent, to be this average.
Couldn't agree more. It's become par for the course if you're an Arizona basketball fan. I'm desensitized to the mediocrity at this point.

Dear CO & en,

If you are the same person/wearing a sock, I officially take back everything I've ever said about how bad you are at trolling.

Sincerely,

BDV

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:02 pm

Well now we have to give him a contract extension.

This was the year he was gonna win it all. Just like 97. But the damned virus cutting off the end of the season prevented that.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:16 pm

The first round would have started today, just another reminder of how life has been completely upended. Hopefully things are back to normal soon and we can get back to watching Miller guide another top-5 recruiting class to a humiliating first round flameout

Jokes aside I hope everyone is doing well!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:04 pm

Wilner:

Pac-12 basketball: Arizona’s plan isn’t working, so something needs to change
The Wildcats are in a roster rut under coach Sean Miller

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/09/ ... opL9dcCfus" target="_blank

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