Fuck asu

[azthrillhouse]

Bump.

p.s. mods, any search for "ASU" on the site gets rejected as too common of a term, any chance we can tweak that?

[catinfl]

fuck asu, fuck todd graham, and fuck berco.

[azcat49]

I endorse what CATINFL said as gospel and is the truth, so help me

[Chicat]

Fuck this ASU fuck ...

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/football/2 ... -equipment" target="_blank

[azgreg]

I saw that. What a piece of shit, but what I know of ASSu fans I'm not surprised.

[azthrillhouse]

Didn't bother to check if posted elsewhere, don't care, still awesome. 2nd John oliver burn on ASU in a few months, must have a Cat on the writing staff (jump to 4:20ish for start of gag, 4:55 for punchline)

[Gilbertcat]

I was sitting in the Az section lower level and they have a second student section that was chanting f you and flipping us off. Most were parents of the kids playing in our section. I have seen a few UofA fans be jerks but not sections. When Williams fumbled and led to an Arizona win i cheered years ago. We then had 10k kids pointing and calling us a-holes for being happy but it was easy to digest after a win. They are drones of idiots.

If we faced them week 1, big win. The fact that we had been close with everything against us on Saturday is a tribute to RR. I hope Dykes does a solid this weekend.

[Luuuuuuuute]

Is it any wonder asu celebrates mediocrity, and always will? All they do is belittle Arizona, our schedule, our record, our team, our history, etc etc etc, but when they beat us they treat it like they just won the national title. If you're constantly comparing yourself to your rival, who's admittedly mediocre in football, what does that tell you?

My Dad has always summed up asu perfectly: go for the tie. It started in 1987 when the game ended in a tie. But when you think about it, it says a lot about their mindset that beating Arizona makes everything better, and they're content with just being good enough to do so, despite claiming to be a football school.

Look no further than Todd Graham saying after the game he feels better with 6 wins and a victory over Arizona than he did last year with 10 wins and a loss. Can you imagine Sean Miller justifying a so-so season by saying, "But at least we beat asu!" Their Twitter page cover photo and background photos (replacing a background that said "back to back 10-win seasons") were the Territorial Cup with hashtags that'd make it seem like they just won it all (. It was like their entire season was a success because of it. For comparison, I checked out Michigan State's page, but despite just beating Ohio State it was the standard logo and photos of their seniors. If anyone had a reason to go overboard, it was them. But here's asu, crowing to anyone who will listen, "WE BEAT ARIZONA! WE BEAT ARIZONA! Sure they're 6-6 and without their QB, or the best defensive player in the country, and 3rd stringers all over the field because of injuries, coming off 12 straight weeks, but WE BEAT ARIZONA!"

The other funny thing is their sliding scale for being "champions." The year started with national champions, then when those were dashed (once they actually played a game!) the goal became Pac-12 champions. When that became unreachable, they started talking about being "bowl champions" and Territorial Cup champions. What was next... declaring the starters champions against the scout team in practice?

And their fans eat it up. Further cementing their place as a "sleeping giant."

asu: Where Mediocrity Thrives.

[PieceOfMeat]

Bump.

p.s. mods, any search for "ASU" on the site gets rejected as too common of a term, any chance we can tweak that?

mods can't do anything about that. board admin might be able to? I'm not sure though, that may just be a limitation of the board's coding.

[azthrillhouse]

Bump.

p.s. mods, any search for "ASU" on the site gets rejected as too common of a term, any chance we can tweak that?

mods can't do anything about that. board admin might be able to? I'm not sure though, that may just be a limitation of the board's coding.

yeah I wondered the same - not a biggie, generally speaking the board is very user-friendly, but my inability to search for my (potentially imagined) pearls of wisdom from last year was frustrating (even finding this thread wasn't straightforward).

[UAEebs86]

Searching for "fuck asu" works just fine though!

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Is it any wonder asu celebrates mediocrity, and always will? All they do is belittle Arizona, our schedule, our record, our team, our history, etc etc etc, but when they beat us they treat it like they just won the national title. If you're constantly comparing yourself to your rival, who's admittedly mediocre in football, what does that tell you?

My Dad has always summed up asu perfectly: go for the tie. It started in 1987 when the game ended in a tie. But when you think about it, it says a lot about their mindset that beating Arizona makes everything better, and they're content with just being good enough to do so, despite claiming to be a football school.

Look no further than Todd Graham saying after the game he feels better with 6 wins and a victory over Arizona than he did last year with 10 wins and a loss. Can you imagine Sean Miller justifying a so-so season by saying, "But at least we beat asu!" Their Twitter page cover photo and background photos (replacing a background that said "back to back 10-win seasons") were the Territorial Cup with hashtags that'd make it seem like they just won it all (. It was like their entire season was a success because of it. For comparison, I checked out Michigan State's page, but despite just beating Ohio State it was the standard logo and photos of their seniors. If anyone had a reason to go overboard, it was them. But here's asu, crowing to anyone who will listen, "WE BEAT ARIZONA! WE BEAT ARIZONA! Sure they're 6-6 and without their QB, or the best defensive player in the country, and 3rd stringers all over the field because of injuries, coming off 12 straight weeks, but WE BEAT ARIZONA!"

The other funny thing is their sliding scale for being "champions." The year started with national champions, then when those were dashed (once they actually played a game!) the goal became Pac-12 champions. When that became unreachable, they started talking about being "bowl champions" and Territorial Cup champions. What was next... declaring the starters champions against the scout team in practice?

And their fans eat it up. Further cementing their place as a "sleeping giant."

asu: Where Mediocrity Thrives.

Would you prefer ASU fans and coaches not care about the T-cup? Its arguably one of the most intense rivalries in the nation, and you don't understand why ASU fans and coaches would place an emphasis on winning the game every year?

"If you're constantly comparing yourself to your rival, who's admittedly mediocre in football, what does that tell you?"- It tells me you are rivals. Comparing is what rivals do. Take a look around this very forum. There are dozens of posts by UA fans here comparing to ASU's recruiting, location, coaching, etc.

"It was like their entire season was a success because of it."- No, but the game carries a lot of weight, just as it does for UA fans. How many times on this forum have UA fans mentioned if you guys just beat ASU, they would still see this season as a success? As much as you like to think you are somehow different, football fans are generally very similar, regardless of school.

"I checked out Michigan State's page, but despite just beating Ohio State it was the standard logo and photos of their seniors."- State and Ohio State are not rivals. It was a huge win for Sparty, but that game doesn't care anywhere near the history or rival tension that the T-cup does. Again, the T-cup is one of the most fierce rivalry's in college football. That doesn't change because both teams are having .500 years.

[azthrillhouse]

Is it any wonder asu celebrates mediocrity, and always will? All they do is belittle Arizona, our schedule, our record, our team, our history, etc etc etc, but when they beat us they treat it like they just won the national title. If you're constantly comparing yourself to your rival, who's admittedly mediocre in football, what does that tell you?

My Dad has always summed up asu perfectly: go for the tie. It started in 1987 when the game ended in a tie. But when you think about it, it says a lot about their mindset that beating Arizona makes everything better, and they're content with just being good enough to do so, despite claiming to be a football school.

Look no further than Todd Graham saying after the game he feels better with 6 wins and a victory over Arizona than he did last year with 10 wins and a loss. Can you imagine Sean Miller justifying a so-so season by saying, "But at least we beat asu!" Their Twitter page cover photo and background photos (replacing a background that said "back to back 10-win seasons") were the Territorial Cup with hashtags that'd make it seem like they just won it all (. It was like their entire season was a success because of it. For comparison, I checked out Michigan State's page, but despite just beating Ohio State it was the standard logo and photos of their seniors. If anyone had a reason to go overboard, it was them. But here's asu, crowing to anyone who will listen, "WE BEAT ARIZONA! WE BEAT ARIZONA! Sure they're 6-6 and without their QB, or the best defensive player in the country, and 3rd stringers all over the field because of injuries, coming off 12 straight weeks, but WE BEAT ARIZONA!"

The other funny thing is their sliding scale for being "champions." The year started with national champions, then when those were dashed (once they actually played a game!) the goal became Pac-12 champions. When that became unreachable, they started talking about being "bowl champions" and Territorial Cup champions. What was next... declaring the starters champions against the scout team in practice?

And their fans eat it up. Further cementing their place as a "sleeping giant."

asu: Where Mediocrity Thrives.

All of this. And while you know all of this in your heart, it still grates on you to hear this stupid chirping....which is why I will never be satisfied until we have multiple Rose Bowls and destroy them 100-0 in every game of every sport, until their children ask them "why do we like such a loser team"?. I do not understand the point of view of "hey, isn't it great when both teams are good and the games are relevant and hotly contested". No. Screw that.

[Luuuuuuuute]

Would you prefer ASU fans and coaches not care about the T-cup? Its arguably one of the most intense rivalries in the nation, and you don't understand why ASU fans and coaches would place an emphasis on winning the game every year?

"If you're constantly comparing yourself to your rival, who's admittedly mediocre in football, what does that tell you?"- It tells me you are rivals. Comparing is what rivals do. Take a look around this very forum. There are dozens of posts by UA fans here comparing to ASU's recruiting, location, coaching, etc.

"It was like their entire season was a success because of it."- No, but the game carries a lot of weight, just as it does for UA fans. How many times on this forum have UA fans mentioned if you guys just beat ASU, they would still see this season as a success? As much as you like to think you are somehow different, football fans are generally very similar, regardless of school.

"I checked out Michigan State's page, but despite just beating Ohio State it was the standard logo and photos of their seniors."- State and Ohio State are not rivals. It was a huge win for Sparty, but that game doesn't care anywhere near the history or rival tension that the T-cup does. Again, the T-cup is one of the most fierce rivalry's in college football. That doesn't change because both teams are having .500 years.

You're missing my point. You can celebrate it all you want, as any team does when they win a rivalry game. Of course we celebrate when we win, but asu goes over the top with it all, from the coach to the players to the fans. And I don't mean from a "bragging rights" perspective. You can crow all you want about beating us, and most of us will roll our eyes and point out how crappy your season turned out based on your own lofty preseason "goals." You didn't keep us from anything, or knock us out of an elite bowl, etc., nor did you earn any of that by winning... you simply became bowl eligible. Great for you, why not throw a parade?

If you want to be a "football school," act like you've been there before. Set your sights higher than just settling for beating your mediocre rival. Until then, asu will remain stuck in the mud, mired in mediocrity. But apparently that's OK to you.

I don't judge a season's success based on whether we beat asu, and I'm not one of those who says, "we can be 1-11 as long as that 1 is against asu." It takes the sting out of a terrible season, sure, but I'd still be pissed with a terrible season. Rich Rod is honest about that, while Graham says things like "this is worth 5 wins" and "I'd rather win 6 and beat them than win 10 and lose." It's red meat for asu fans, who eat it up, just as you always have... and the mediocrity cycle continues. Is it any wonder it's been that way for several decades now?

[Puerco]

I don't think it's possible to go over the top about winning the Territorial Cup.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Would you prefer ASU fans and coaches not care about the T-cup? Its arguably one of the most intense rivalries in the nation, and you don't understand why ASU fans and coaches would place an emphasis on winning the game every year?

"If you're constantly comparing yourself to your rival, who's admittedly mediocre in football, what does that tell you?"- It tells me you are rivals. Comparing is what rivals do. Take a look around this very forum. There are dozens of posts by UA fans here comparing to ASU's recruiting, location, coaching, etc.

"It was like their entire season was a success because of it."- No, but the game carries a lot of weight, just as it does for UA fans. How many times on this forum have UA fans mentioned if you guys just beat ASU, they would still see this season as a success? As much as you like to think you are somehow different, football fans are generally very similar, regardless of school.

"I checked out Michigan State's page, but despite just beating Ohio State it was the standard logo and photos of their seniors."- State and Ohio State are not rivals. It was a huge win for Sparty, but that game doesn't care anywhere near the history or rival tension that the T-cup does. Again, the T-cup is one of the most fierce rivalry's in college football. That doesn't change because both teams are having .500 years.

You're missing my point. You can celebrate it all you want, as any team does when they win a rivalry game. Of course we celebrate when we win, but asu goes over the top with it all, from the coach to the players to the fans. And I don't mean from a "bragging rights" perspective. You can crow all you want about beating us, and most of us will roll our eyes and point out how crappy your season turned out based on your own lofty preseason "goals." You didn't keep us from anything, or knock us out of an elite bowl, etc., nor did you earn any of that by winning... you simply became bowl eligible. Great for you, why not throw a parade?

If you want to be a "football school," act like you've been there before. Set your sights higher than just settling for beating your mediocre rival. Until then, asu will remain stuck in the mud, mired in mediocrity. But apparently that's OK to you.

I don't judge a season's success based on whether we beat asu, and I'm not one of those who says, "we can be 1-11 as long as that 1 is against asu." It takes the sting out of a terrible season, sure, but I'd still be pissed with a terrible season. Rich Rod is honest about that, while Graham says things like "this is worth 5 wins" and "I'd rather win 6 and beat them than win 10 and lose." It's red meat for asu fans, who eat it up, just as you always have... and the mediocrity cycle continues. Is it any wonder it's been that way for several decades now?[/quote]

I think its pretty clear TG sets his sights considerably higher than beating UA, and he has the results to show for that. A quick look at conference performances since RR and TG took over tells the story:

Pac-12 South in Rich Rodriguez / Todd Graham era (2012-15)
ASU, 23-12
UCLA, 23-12
USC, 22-13
UA 18-18
UTAH, 15-20
CU, 3-33

It looks like the numbers show an ASU program that is performing well above "mediocre" in TG's tenure (both on and off the field). I have acknowledged myself that ASU is a historically mediocre program, but TG is building a program that is performing very much above ASU's historic results, whether or not you care to acknowledge that fact remains to be seen. Given RR's track record in rivalry games, it seems he could be placing a lot more emphasis on those games in particular.

I hope you can see by now that Graham almost always speaks in hyperbole with the media. That said, I think if you look at his actual post game comments, you will see you blew them out of proportion:

"We didn't hit the mark, where we wanted to this year, but that one heals you up quite a bit. I like that one. That one was worth about five wins there, at least that's what all the fans say when I talk to them. I can tell you this, we won ten games last year, and we lost this game. I feel better right now than I did last year. I don't ever, I would never want to experience that again, because that was not good. People are not very happy and its pretty miserable when you lose this game. I have people tell me that they would rather win that game than the PAC 12 championship. I'm not going to comment on that, but its pretty dang important I know that."

[Harvey Specter]

I don't think it's possible to go over the top about winning the Territorial Cup.

I agree... And it is very Sundevil-esque in my view to talk it up going into the game, and then downplay its importance after we lose. Do I wish we had a coach that made it more of a priority to beat ASU, and had more success doing it? F*** yes, I do.

Would beating ASU make up for a 1-11 season? No. But it would have made this past season (which was shitty, with an asterisk) MUCH better. It sure as shit counts for more than the 3 non-BCS/FCS/D2 wins we have per season that get us to a 0.500+ record and a bowl game - which people here crow about all the time.

So people can go ahead and act like they are too cool to care - I won't. And despite the game's 'limited' importance... It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Make fun of him and them all you want; it only makes us look worse considering we are staring up at their ass on the conference football ladder. Personally, I hate the view.

[jimson]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.


Take a closer look. 1st year we both had average seasons and lower tier bowls. 2nd year, they won the division, got killed in the title game and blew their bowl game.

3rd year we won the division championship, got killed in the title game (though not at home) and blew the bowl game.

4th year we are 6 and 6 and they are 6 and 5 with one loseable game to go.

If Solomon plays this year we likely would be 2-2 in T-cup.

Graham has been only slightly and I mean really slightly more successful.

[Harvey Specter]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.

Might want to re-check that one there, Jim.

We are at parity on that one statistic; fortunately we got the only one we had a sniff at.

[jimson]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.

Might want to re-check that one there, Jim.

We are at parity on that one statistic; fortunately we got the only one we had a sniff at.

Even is what I meant. check out my edit abcve to see how close to even these programs have really been.

[Harvey Specter]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.

Might want to re-check that one there, Jim.

We are at parity on that one statistic; fortunately we got the only one we had a sniff at.

Even is what I meant. check out my edit abcve to see how close to even these programs have really been.

If they can beat Cal, ASU's average season conference record over the past 4 years will be 6-3. We are 4.5-4.5. They will have finished T2, 1, T2, T3 in the division the last 4 years. We have ended in the upper division one time.

They will have had a winning conference record every season; we have had 1.

If USC beats UCLA, they will a) have been the winningest team in the division the last 4 years; we are 4th.

They lead us 3-1 in head-to-head.

In my world, that's pretty clear, and it's scoreboard.

1.5 shots per round in golf does not seem like much, either: the guy who trails Jordan Spieth & Rory McIlroy by that average margin is someone most people have never heard of.

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.


Take a closer look. 1st year we both had average seasons and lower tier bowls. 2nd year, they won the division, got killed in the title game and blew their bowl game.

3rd year we won the division championship, got killed in the title game (though not at home) and blew the bowl game.

4th year we are 6 and 6 and they are 6 and 5 with one loseable game to go.

If Solomon plays this year we likely would be 2-2 in T-cup.

Graham has been only slightly and I mean really slightly more successful.

Interesting you brought up conference championships. Lets take a look at all the South champs since the PAC 12 expansion:


conf / division
2011 - UCLA 5-4 / 2-3
2012 - UCLA 6-3 / 5-0
2013 - ASU 8-1 / 5-0
2014 - UA 7-2 / 3-2

On the surface, you are correct, UA and ASU both have the same number of South champs. However, when you look a little closer its easy to see the two achievements are not the same. In '13 ASU lost only once in the conference, and swept the South. There is no disputing they were the best team in the South that year. When UA won the South the following season, they went 7-2 in conference play, going 3-2 in the South. UCLA was arguably the best team in the South that season, going 4-1.

Now, this is the point where most UA fans remind me that UA beat the best team and eventual PAC 12 champ (Oregon) on the road that season. Seeing here that injuries are an acceptable excuse again, lets remember that Oregon squad was decimated by injuries when UA first played them. We got to see a healthier version of that team in the conference championship game.

I am sure I am about to get blasted for posting the above, but I figured it safe to reach into the details given how far you reached to find comparable results. It probably would have been easier for you to just say "RR has taken UA to four bowl games, and TG has taken ASU to four bowl games, they are obviously even."

[Harvey Specter]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.


Take a closer look. 1st year we both had average seasons and lower tier bowls. 2nd year, they won the division, got killed in the title game and blew their bowl game.

3rd year we won the division championship, got killed in the title game (though not at home) and blew the bowl game.

4th year we are 6 and 6 and they are 6 and 5 with one loseable game to go.

If Solomon plays this year we likely would be 2-2 in T-cup.

Graham has been only slightly and I mean really slightly more successful.

Interesting you brought up conference championships. Lets take a look at all the South champs since the PAC 12 expansion:


conf / division
2011 - UCLA 5-4 / 2-3
2012 - UCLA 6-3 / 5-0
2013 - ASU 8-1 / 5-0
2014 - UA 7-2 / 3-2

On the surface, you are correct, UA and ASU both have the same number of South champs. However, when you look a little closer its easy to see the two achievements are not the same. In '13 ASU lost only once in the conference, and swept the South. There is no disputing they were the best team in the South that year. When UA won the South the following season, they went 7-2 in conference play, going 3-2 in the South. UCLA was arguably the best team in the South that season, going 4-1.

Now, this is the point where most UA fans remind me that UA beat the best team and eventual PAC 12 champ (Oregon) on the road that season. Seeing here that injuries are an acceptable excuse again, lets remember that Oregon squad was decimated by injuries when UA first played them. We got to see a healthier version of that team in the conference championship game.

I am sure I am about to get blasted for posting the above, but I figured it safe to reach into the details given how far you reached to find comparable results. It probably would have been easier for you to just say "RR has taken UA to four bowl games, and TG has taken ASU to four bowl games, they are obviously even."

If you are going to get blasted, I am sure I will be skewered as a traitor. I am a UA fan and cannot get the taste out of my mouth from licking Graham's balls in the post above. But facts are facts... whether people want to ignore and discount them or not.

Few seem to be bothered by it - fine, I hope this current staff is bothered by it, and will not rest on their laurels of "4 straight bowl games" like many Cat fans seem content to do. I'd like them to be pissed... But what I'd really like is for them to reverse the trend.

FUCK ASU.

[Chicat]

Anyone remember when Scum Dick pretended he was an impartial UA fan?

Have any of you noticed you only get touchy when this convo is in reference to football? If we talk ASU and basketball we laugh them off, because we clearly are a better product. But god forbid one of your own recognize that while what they have done in football is minimal, it is more than what we have done, and you asshats start calling out my allegiances.

What a hoot...

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Anyone remember when Scum Dick pretended he was an impartial UA fan?

Have any of you noticed you only get touchy when this convo is in reference to football? If we talk ASU and basketball we laugh them off, because we clearly are a better product. But god forbid one of your own recognize that while what they have done in football is minimal, it is more than what we have done, and you asshats start calling out my allegiances.

What a hoot...

Never happened. Posed as an SC fan.

[UAEebs86]

http://www.beardownwildcats.com/memberl ... =group&g=8

[Chicat]

Anyone remember when Scum Dick pretended he was an impartial UA fan?

Have any of you noticed you only get touchy when this convo is in reference to football? If we talk ASU and basketball we laugh them off, because we clearly are a better product. But god forbid one of your own recognize that while what they have done in football is minimal, it is more than what we have done, and you asshats start calling out my allegiances.

What a hoot...

Never happened. Posed as an SC fan.

I just quoted your post where you posed as a UA fan. You can read what you wrote, can't you?

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Anyone remember when Scum Dick pretended he was an impartial UA fan?

Have any of you noticed you only get touchy when this convo is in reference to football? If we talk ASU and basketball we laugh them off, because we clearly are a better product. But god forbid one of your own recognize that while what they have done in football is minimal, it is more than what we have done, and you asshats start calling out my allegiances.

What a hoot...

Never happened. Posed as an SC fan.

I just quoted your post where you posed as a UA fan. You can read what you wrote, can't you?

I never wrote that. Post the entire dialogue. I am looking through all my old posts now, and I can't find it. I never wrote that, or its somehow taken way out of context. What is the date on that post?

[Chicat]

Anyone remember when Scum Dick pretended he was an impartial UA fan?

Have any of you noticed you only get touchy when this convo is in reference to football? If we talk ASU and basketball we laugh them off, because we clearly are a better product. But god forbid one of your own recognize that while what they have done in football is minimal, it is more than what we have done, and you asshats start calling out my allegiances.

What a hoot...

Never happened. Posed as an SC fan.

I just quoted your post where you posed as a UA fan. You can read what you wrote, can't you?

I never wrote that. Post the entire dialogue. I am looking through all my old posts now, and I can't find it. I never wrote that, or its somehow taken way out of context. What is the date on that post?

http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... 856#p24025" target="_blank

Our head to head record would seem to suggest otherwise, but I'm not going to tax your ASU-educated brain with simple math by posting those numbers.

our head to head record in every major sport mind you

^This is only true when going back to the early 1900's when ASU was nothing more than a small college with a fraction of the that UA was receiving. If we are being realistic, the comparison should start in the 50's, and I believe they have a 10 game lead on us in football, but we absolutely own their asses in basketball. Not sure on baseball. No one cares about the other sports.

Why in the 50s? Why not in the 60's, 70's, 80's, or just from when both coaches came to the schools? Why not choose an arbitrary year because it sounds cool? Like 1985 for the Back to the Future reference or 2001 because of the book and movie about a space odyssey? Or we could just go back to the beginning of both football programs since that's the simplest and doesn't require some arbitrary cut-off date when we can start counting wins and losses.

Off topic a bit, but I've been trying to figure out from your screenname and posts which team you root for. Becoming murkier by the moment...

I said the 50's because I believe that is when they became a state university and received comparable funding. Some of you get your panty's in wad over the fact I am not going to brag about beating up on a team that was clearly not at our level. Its the equivalent of us playing Scottsdale Community College for 50 years, then the state decides to make them a full fledged university with comparable funding, and 50 years later we are desperately holding onto those 50 years they were a CC and absolutely no match for us. I am the guy that is not interested in playing a lesser quality to pad my wins. I want to beat the best, at full strength. Not saying ASU is the best, just showing my mindset and why I only consider the rivalry since 1950-whatever it was they became Arizona State University.

Have any of you noticed you only get touchy when this convo is in reference to football? If we talk ASU and basketball we laugh them off, because we clearly are a better product. But god forbid one of your own recognize that while what they have done in football is minimal, it is more than what we have done, and you asshats start calling out my allegiances.

[Chicat]

Is this where I drop the mic and Scum Dick crawls back in his hole?

[Olsondogg]

Clearly someone hacked his account.

[Chicat]

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

Jesus, this was definitely me not keeping my story straight. Was it the rivals site I posed as an SC fan? Depending on the fan base, I will show my true colors (if they can handle interaction without losing their minds), or I pose as one of their own or a fan of a team they aren't threatened by to encourage them to let their guard down. I obviously didn't do a very good job of it here. Sad part is I think I made a switch mid way through that thread, haha. You guys figured me out a while ago though.

You can def drop that mic. (Not that I am planning on crawling into any holes.) I was so sure I didn't write that on this site.

[Chicat]

I don't blame you. I wouldn't want anyone to know I was an ASSU fan either....

[AZarchery]

Jesus, this was definitely me not keeping my story straight. Was it the rivals site I posed as an SC fan? Depending on the fan base, I will show my true colors (if they can handle interaction without losing their minds), or I pose as one of their own or a fan of a team they aren't threatened by to encourage them to let their guard down. I obviously didn't do a very good job of it here. Sad part is I think I made a switch mid way through that thread, haha. You guys figured me out a while ago though.

You can def drop that mic. (Not that I am planning on crawling into any holes.) I was so sure I didn't write that on this site.

Fuck assu

[azgreg]

[Catstatic]

Who was criticizing RR after last season? No one. Who would want Toad over RR after last season? No one. So now, after unprecedented injuries to our entire LB group, and having to sit Anu against UCLA, Stanford and ASU, Graham is somehow a better coach? Fine. People who are only driven by overall record can have him.

RR is engaging, an offensive genius, has humility when talking about his team and others, and is the best coach we have ever had at Arizona. Who wouldn't love to sit down, have a beer with him, and talk football? Or talk about anything for that matter?

You want Toad, who spouts nothing but hyperbole every single stinking year, constantly discounts any loss (Anyone keeping track of how often he said, "We pretty much beat ourselves," because that's the only way his teams can lose, right?), has no respect for opponents, and seems to be in almost every sense of the word a complete horse's ass? You can have him.

As far as the respective coaching jobs this year: How did Toad do with his "best team ever" at ASU? Something must have misfired with his coaching then??? Hell, he had to beat us to get bowl eligible! How would he have done having to play a safety at LB and a 3rd string QB? Arizona had the ball with 4 minutes to go, down 8, on the road at ASU with our 3rd string QB in the game and bringing us back. RR has done a hell of a job this year.

But facts are facts, right? All depends on which facts you're looking at.

Go Cats!!

[Harvey Specter]

Who was criticizing RR after last season? No one. Who would want Toad over RR after last season? No one. So now, after unprecedented injuries to our entire LB group, and having to sit Anu against UCLA, Stanford and ASU, Graham is somehow a better coach? Fine. People who are only driven by overall record can have him.

RR is engaging, an offensive genius, has humility when talking about his team and others, and is the best coach we have ever had at Arizona. Who wouldn't love to sit down, have a beer with him, and talk football? Or talk about anything for that matter?

You want Toad, who spouts nothing but hyperbole every single stinking year, constantly discounts any loss (Anyone keeping track of how often he said, "We pretty much beat ourselves," because that's the only way his teams can lose, right?), has no respect for opponents, and seems to be in almost every sense of the word a complete horse's ass? You can have him.

As far as the respective coaching jobs this year: How did Toad do with his "best team ever" at ASU? Something must have misfired with his coaching then??? Hell, he had to beat us to get bowl eligible! How would he have done having to play a safety at LB and a 3rd string QB? Arizona had the ball with 4 minutes to go, down 8, on the road at ASU with our 3rd string QB in the game and bringing us back. RR has done a hell of a job this year.

But facts are facts, right? All depends on which facts you're looking at.

Go Cats!!

As far as the 2 personalities go... I agree with you 100%. Rich Rod is a very engaging and personable dude, and Graham is an asshat; I truly cannot stand him, for many of the reasons you mention. I would never want him to coach the Cats, and never said I did.

I don't think anyone on this site would want him. Before last season, I think a lot of people would have acknowledge he'd had a more successful 2 year stint than RR; after this season, I think it's pretty clear that is still the case. How? I have no idea... I still do not understand how that douchebag can recruit as well as he has been.

But talking about personality and charisma, when discussing which coach has led a more successful program, is a classic maneuver an asu Fan would pull. They got scoreboard over the past 4 years by just about every measure,

I hope we even it up; because while I enjoy having a coach that I like, I also want one that wins more. That's why they play the games. As for RR thinking of leaving - he better realize he will never find another fanbase that gives him the benefit of the doubt at every turn like this one does... dating back to before his first game here, after everyone read 3 & Out.

For each of the last 4 years it seems just about everyone crows about why ASU was going to shit the bed in the upcoming season and why were in such a much better position. And after each of the last 4 seasons, everyone says "Rich Rod pulled a miracle to do as well as we did... Graham was dealt a much better hand". That may have been tries this past season... But it is something different every year, and it ALWAYS seems to be acknowledged ONLY in retrospect. So I guess we are a bunch of homers before every season, and turn into realists after each season is complete. That is convenient.

[CalStateTempe]

Jesus, this was definitely me not keeping my story straight. Was it the rivals site I posed as an SC fan? Depending on the fan base, I will show my true colors (if they can handle interaction without losing their minds), or I pose as one of their own or a fan of a team they aren't threatened by to encourage them to let their guard down. I obviously didn't do a very good job of it here. Sad part is I think I made a switch mid way through that thread, haha. You guys figured me out a while ago though.

You can def drop that mic. (Not that I am planning on crawling into any holes.) I was so sure I didn't write that on this site.

Maybe you're just dumb.

[illcat]

I do believe someone just got schooled....LOL

[Puerco]

It reflects what other statistics confirm has been reality for the last 4 years: the Graham tenure has been more successful than the RR era in every measure.

Except for division championships.


Take a closer look. 1st year we both had average seasons and lower tier bowls. 2nd year, they won the division, got killed in the title game and blew their bowl game.

3rd year we won the division championship, got killed in the title game (though not at home) and blew the bowl game.

4th year we are 6 and 6 and they are 6 and 5 with one loseable game to go.

If Solomon plays this year we likely would be 2-2 in T-cup.

Graham has been only slightly and I mean really slightly more successful.

Interesting you brought up conference championships. Lets take a look at all the South champs since the PAC 12 expansion:


conf / division
2011 - UCLA 5-4 / 2-3
2012 - UCLA 6-3 / 5-0
2013 - ASU 8-1 / 5-0
2014 - UA 7-2 / 3-2

On the surface, you are correct, UA and ASU both have the same number of South champs. However, when you look a little closer its easy to see the two achievements are not the same. In '13 ASU lost only once in the conference, and swept the South. There is no disputing they were the best team in the South that year. When UA won the South the following season, they went 7-2 in conference play, going 3-2 in the South. UCLA was arguably the best team in the South that season, going 4-1.

Now, this is the point where most UA fans remind me that UA beat the best team and eventual PAC 12 champ (Oregon) on the road that season. Seeing here that injuries are an acceptable excuse again, lets remember that Oregon squad was decimated by injuries when UA first played them. We got to see a healthier version of that team in the conference championship game.

I am sure I am about to get blasted for posting the above, but I figured it safe to reach into the details given how far you reached to find comparable results. It probably would have been easier for you to just say "RR has taken UA to four bowl games, and TG has taken ASU to four bowl games, they are obviously even."

Jesus, you're really splitting hairs here. If you have to dig below the surface of the end of season results to prove your team's superiority, then said superiority isn't very significant. Has ASU had a better past four years than the UA? Yes. Was it significantly better? No. Barring the face-to-face results, which are admittedly important, the results are astonishingly similar: good, but not great. ASU having a game advantage f2f tips the scales.

[jimson]

Jesus, you're really splitting hairs here. If you have to dig below the surface of the end of season results to prove your team's superiority, then said superiority isn't very significant. Has ASU had a better past four years than the UA? Yes. Was it significantly better? No. Barring the face-to-face results, which are admittedly important, the results are astonishingly similar: good, but not great. ASU having a game advantage f2f tips the scales.

Exactly.

I feel like I'm on the Devils Delusion board

[Harvey Specter]

Jesus, you're really splitting hairs here. If you have to dig below the surface of the end of season results to prove your team's superiority, then said superiority isn't very significant. Has ASU had a better past four years than the UA? Yes. Was it significantly better? No. Barring the face-to-face results, which are admittedly important, the results are astonishingly similar: good, but not great. ASU having a game advantage f2f tips the scales.

Exactly.

I feel like I'm on the Devils Delusion board

Wow... that's weird, because so do I. Averaging an additional 1.5 wins per season, always finishing with a winning conference record & in the top half of the division, and going 3-1 head-to-head are not trivial differences. As pointed out by Puerco, it underscores the importance of the ASU game (for more reasons than just rivalry ones).

The difference between mediocre and good is not that dramatic... it's "fighting over an inch". We tend to beat the teams we should beat (which is good), but suck against the better teams in the conference (save UO, and this year - Utah).

As I said earlier... 1.5 strokes per round in golf is pretty miniscule. Jordan Spieth won the Vardon trophy with a scoring average of 68.94; Rory Sabbatini's scoring average was 70.44. I guess he was really close to winning POY.

Our programs are not that far apart... but the longer it lasts, the harder it will be to turn the tide. Look at in-state recruiting this year.

[jimson]

Look at in-state recruiting this year.

Yeah, that don't really mean shit to me since most of our best guys come from California.

[Puerco]

Jesus, you're really splitting hairs here. If you have to dig below the surface of the end of season results to prove your team's superiority, then said superiority isn't very significant. Has ASU had a better past four years than the UA? Yes. Was it significantly better? No. Barring the face-to-face results, which are admittedly important, the results are astonishingly similar: good, but not great. ASU having a game advantage f2f tips the scales.

Exactly.

I feel like I'm on the Devils Delusion board

Wow... that's weird, because so do I. Averaging an additional 1.5 wins per season, always finishing with a winning conference record & in the top half of the division, and going 3-1 head-to-head are not trivial differences. As pointed out by Puerco, it underscores the importance of the ASU game (for more reasons than just rivalry ones).

The difference between mediocre and good is not that dramatic... it's "fighting over an inch". We tend to beat the teams we should beat (which is good), but suck against the better teams in the conference (save UO, and this year - Utah).

As I said earlier... 1.5 strokes per round in golf is pretty miniscule. Jordan Spieth won the Vardon trophy with a scoring average of 68.94; Rory Sabbatini's scoring average was 70.44. I guess he was really close to winning POY.

Our programs are not that far apart... but the longer it lasts, the harder it will be to turn the tide. Look at in-state recruiting this year.

Yeah, agree with all of this.

[jimson]

Our programs are not that far apart.

That's all I've been saying all along.

As far as instate recruiting, since the metro PHX area dwarves Tucson they will have the most players and If they want to leave PHX, they will leave the state, not just move 2 hours down I-10, so of course ASSU will keep most of them who want to stay in AZ.

That's why it's way more important to recruit elsewhere. A kid from Temple Texas isn't necessarily going to find a big city like PHX more appealing than Tucson.

[Harvey Specter]

Our programs are not that far apart.

That's all I've been saying all along.

As far as instate recruiting, since the metro PHX area dwarves Tucson they will have the most players and If they want to leave PHX, they will leave the state, not just move 2 hours down I-10, so of course ASSU will keep most of them who want to stay in AZ.

That's why it's way more important to recruit elsewhere. A kid from Temple Texas isn't necessarily going to find a big city like PHX more appealing than Tucson.

I think we agree more than not on where the program is vis-a-vis ASU... We just view the differential differently.

We disagree on the importance of in-state recruiting.... We are letting kids get out of state that are better prospects than the ones we get from elsewhere. Arizona HS talent has improved dramatically, and IF we can't get those kids from PHX, we are not getting them from CA, TX, or anywhere else.

ASU has some advantage as the hometown school, but being a 1.5-2.5 hour drive from home has a lot of appeal... Get away from home, but close enough to head home on demand and have friends & family come to all your games. A lot of PHX HS kids (non-athletes) go to UA for that very reason. We need recruiters who are better at selling. At different points in the past we have pulled a lot of very good prospects from the Phoenix metro area, and most of them did not have family ties to the school.

As for that kid from Temple, TX - the probability is quite high that he will not give us a sniff unless he is passed over by the Big 12 and SEC. And therein lies our "OKG, recruit from everywhere" strategy.

[jimson]

We're like a lot of programs. We're only going to get a few of the one's who have offers from elite programs. We have to make a living getting guys that won't start at USC.

The good news is that a lot of those guys are close and can develop to that level.

These kids are fairly shallow. They get wowed and hear a lot of BS promises and then sit the bench for years. Some will see that they can have more individual success here. The hope is that we can do well enough to make a name for the program that can finally compete with the top destinations.

[jimson]

So ASU ends up with an identical record to us. Oh yeah, they are one conference game ahead. BFD.

All this with a relatively intact and healthy roster.

If we are going to dig into conference records and margins of victory to prove that ASU is the much superior program then we should dig into how ASU would have faired if they hadn't had their starting QB and RB for much of the year let alone all of their 1st and second string LB's.

[krissyp]

Exactly, like I said before, their season speaks volumes. Not to mention their idiot coach basically came out and said his system works and if they don't like it, fire him (which I'm sure he has his eyes on some of the vacancies-don't really know who would want him).

I fully maintain their dream season with their best team ever became a mess when his son got fired.