Coach Rod

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:01 am

az91 wrote:Per Hansen's article, Rich Rod's buyout is about 7.1 million. There is no way the administration is going to be able to pay that amount.

Gez. That pretty much gurenttees RR another two years. No way Arizona pays 7.1 million plus another coach salary.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:07 am

Yes it from the Phoenix Paper but he's not entirely wrong. Saying lots what many of us have been saying for awhile.

Scott Bordow writes:

It’s hard to believe the Wildcats won the Pac-12 South just two years ago. Yes, that was a crazy, lucky and magical season – remember the fourth-quarter comeback against California? – but, still, it appeared UA’s program was on the rise. Instead, it has crashed and burned.

Injuries? Sure. UA has had a ton of them, from linebacker Scooby Wright last year to quarterbacks Anu Solomon and Brandon Dawkins this year. But the overall lack of talent is so pronounced that the Wildcats have to play a near-perfect game just to be competitive.

Rodriguez is not on the hot seat, and he shouldn’t be – at least not yet. He deserves another season to see if a potential top-20 recruiting class, along with a second full year with his new defensive staff, gets the program pointed in the right direction.

But Rodriguez also deserves whatever criticism comes his way. The dearth of talent – especially on the defensive side of the ball – is his responsibility, not the fault of his former assistant coaches. And in five games against quality opponents this year, Arizona has yet to score 30 points.

Basically, it’s a complete program meltdown

This was the kind of loss – with the stadium virtually empty by game’s end – that can crater a program and erode whatever support there is left for the head coach.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... fc94fa1f22

The 2014 South Title run is now a lost opportunity. An opportunity that is so rare to have in your pocket and so extremely valuable to have especially when you're a relatively new HC at a program. Talent across both sides of the ball is lacking and the depth is not P12 level. I'm not convinced it's the S&C program. I think it falls mainly on recruiting (btw, I think it's possible the S&C could be this year's fall guy(s). No excuses for a HC to be saying "“We can fix problems in recruiting..." as recently as last night. You had a P12 division title and a Bednarik award winner in your hip pocket to help you with that. Your pockets were spilling over with accomplishments and momentum. You're about to be a 6th year HC at UA. Had an offer to coach at Alabama, Coached at Michigan.

Maybe , just maybe your formula/approach was wrong and you're late adjusting to the game and the league.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:31 am

RazorsEdgeAZ wrote:
Maybe , just maybe your formula/approach was wrong and you're late adjusting to the game and the league.

this...in a nutshell is I think RR's problem as a whole.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:32 am

been saying for a while, I think the game has passed him by.

uacat540 · Post by **uacat540** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:32 pm

Day after and Im still on the RR goose is cooked here train. Only thing that is going to keep him here is that buyout which means Byrne gets left holding the bag like all other AD's with RR. People keep talking about injuries this year and last year, but there is no way a guy like ippolito going down should be of concern to a team in year 5 of a coach. As much as I love Scooby, he shouldnt have been starting if there was true depth in the defense. It seems like Arizona just recruits all the wrong athletes (undersized, quick) who just get hammered by any of the true players of this league. And it seems to be compounded by a pretty poor S&C program that just is not adding durability to any of our athletes. Its a bummer that we are stuck with a coach who is about to go 3-16 in the conference and 1-4 against ASU. I want a job where i can do 40% of whats required of me and get paid millions.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:42 pm

RichRod, best walk on program in the country!

uacat540 wrote: but there is no way a guy like ippolito going down should be of concern to a team in year 5 of a coach. As much as I love Scooby

Both 2 stars.

Like has been mentioned before, you can have shortcomings on defense if your offense can score 40 or 50 points a game. You get hit by injuries to your 2 high skill positions, QB and RB, and now the deficiencies get really exposed.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:51 pm

And that'll happen anytime your offensive line is decimated. Which it basically was due to bad recruiting and the loss of Hemmila (RIP).

Like I alluded to in the in-game thread yesterday, football is truly an 11-man game. Just one guy gives up on a play, the rest of the unit is exposed to something far worse than embarrassment.

They expose their teammates to injury. With the response to RR virtually gone, that's a nagging worry now, especially with all the injuries already accumulated.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:26 pm

I've not chimed in much over the last two weeks. Honestly I've just grown tired and numb to the inevitable that has become Arizona football. If there is one shining glimpse of satisfaction for us Wildcat faithful, its that ASSU with a better record is basically almost as bad as we are. Their losses will now mount as the year progresses and we both will fight each other to not finish last.

But this old man rant is not about ASSU.

This really is about where the buck stops, and the hardcore facts are unpleasant because you're dealing with people and families and many times it can sound like sour grapes and excuses.

There are so many directions and avenues you could go down to describe the current state that the football program has descended into in year five. And very likely most of them would be correct and possibly even meaningless at the same-time.

In a word, we are stuck in a football vortex which can best be described as “Talent Paralysis” that will take years and a new direction to recover from and I believe it has flourished in part to the smallish/quickish type scheme and the smaller general type players across the board that RR envisions running this scheme with. This analysis is most certainly not the only defining concept and there are other components to interject with which to describe the talent problems but it cuts to the core of the problem. Simply put, in the long-haul this inconceivable injury clusterfuck was inevitable and ties right in with the gut-wrenching reality of our smaller players profile across the board.

And lets not mince word, 2016 version of the Arizona Wildcats are stocked full of smaller, profoundly under-talented players that for the most part are what you would generally classify as boarder-line or mope-up troops that never play major roles for a major college program that is winning.

Yes RR has won some games and he did win the South during this 5 year run, but there never was that defining moment when if you were honest and truthful with yourself, you really knew deep down inside that that magical season was really a fluke.

I really do like RichRod and wanted him to be successful here. I have been vocal about the fact that I did not see RR staying in Tucson and he would eventually jump ship at the right time, and he did flirt with Louisville and South Carolina to some degree, but the full extent will remain unknown.

Either way, the goodwill is gone, and the bloom is off this rose. RR will not be fired this year and should not be. But the RR/West Virginia magic of days long gone will never be captured again for RR. That ship has sailed whether you all want to admit it or not.

I'm now ambivalent to RR, I neither care whether he stays or goes. Basically the only thing saving his ass is the money Arizona football will never have to buy him out and his hiring of a talented defensive coordinator in Marcel Yates who is now likely questioning his move to Arizona.

The scheme and RR blueprint is now widely known and is no longer a novelty item that surprises anyone. The truth is Grambling State had better talent across the board than we did and that included every PAC12 school. That is utterly gut-wrenching to say.

All told RR will get this year and next, but I don't suspect he will survive. Additionally his two flirtations with other schools have already told the fan base of this reality and where his heart is.

Effectively what we are looking at in year five is another major rebuilding program starting in year six, when it was supposed to be humming along nicely. Injuries alone cannot come close to being used as the excuse for our problems or describing in totality of the complete implosion into the worst program in the South after five years of stability.

Greg Byrne is a fabulous AD and I think he's the best ever here at the UofA. I know this is killing him inside and I don't relish the hard choices that he must deal with on a daily basis. Football fiances are going to seriously play a part in the overall set of dilemmas moving forward.

GB hands are tied due to funding concerns and empty stadium seats going forward are going to further exacerbate the negative feed-back loop of the floundering program under RR leadership.

This is a bad place to be and it won't be fixed overnight. Rich Rod body language is really projecting badly as well and it looks like to me he wants to move on and a noticeable lack of talent takes years to redirect and correct and it won't be corrected this year or next. That's how bad the talent pool is as we sit here in 2016 on the roster. I would say 1/3 to ½ is very likely not PAC 12 caliber players.

I would give odd's at nothing better than 50/50 that RR survives next year unless something utterly magical happens that cannot possibly be envisioned today.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:46 pm

Great post GC.

In more optimistic thinking, maybe RR sees the writing on the wall and will make a lateral move to another program. Doubtful, 7.1 mill is stupid to pass up, but maybe he too sees his coaching resume on the ropes with another bad season at Arizona and wants out now.

I can only hope.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:28 pm

You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:48 pm

I swear this guy is related to the jethie somehow

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:57 pm

cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.

And you continue to bemoan the fact that we should not make a change because we might end up even worse than we are now.... celebrate losing 'because it could get even worse' like the fan you are.

We very possibly could be headed straight for 2-10 / 0-9. Only an upset will prevent that from happening, because we will be a considerable underdog in every remaining game. Our best shot at a win is the last one at home vs ASU...

Maybe you can remind us again what a superior coach RR is to Toad, and how Graham only had a better start because he inherited so much more? (There are plenty who were singing that song until very recently)

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:53 am

cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.

Seriously, dude, the only reason I can take this post seriously is because I cannot understand a single one of your other posts in this thread, so I have absolutely no idea what you believe.

Maybe you're an absolute genius, and so I should take you calling us stupid seriously. Or maybe not.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:44 am

Puerco wrote:
cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.
Seriously, dude, the only reason I can take this post seriously is because I cannot understand a single one of your other posts in this thread, so I have absolutely no idea what you believe.

Maybe you're an absolute genius, and so I should take you calling us stupid seriously. Or maybe not.

Puerco your sad man, You still want to play I cant understand you card or take you serious card. Harvey I'm not like you and rest of the hounds throwing RR under bus of how this season has been. I can come on here when ever I want and write what I wont. I don't care if you and the hounds here on this thread getting upset. What I'm saying is, Why the suddenly we starting to make Arizona feel like powerhouse after what we witness last year.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:47 am

That's not Harvey.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:49 am

Puerco wrote:
cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.
Seriously, dude, the only reason I can take this post seriously is because I cannot understand a single one of your other posts in this thread, so I have absolutely no idea what you believe.

Maybe you're an absolute genius, and so I should take you calling us stupid seriously. Or maybe not.

Their a thing that call learn how to read. If you cant read what I wrote then your have problem lack of understanding what it meant.

Dude, I'm not throwing RR under that bus on how this season is playing out. I don't understand how we our starting to act like Arizona football program finally mean something. I can care less what you said ok.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:50 am

Chicat wrote:That's not Harvey.

I know just edit it

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:54 am

cordera89 wrote:
Puerco wrote:
cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.
Seriously, dude, the only reason I can take this post seriously is because I cannot understand a single one of your other posts in this thread, so I have absolutely no idea what you believe.

Maybe you're an absolute genius, and so I should take you calling us stupid seriously. Or maybe not.
Their a thing that call learn how to read. If you cant read what I wrote then your have problem lack of understanding what it meant.

Dude, I'm not throwing RR under that bus on how this season is playing out. I don't understand how we our starting to act like Arizona football program finally mean something. I can care less what you said ok.

Look, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here when I say your posts are difficult to understand. "Their a thing that call learn how to read" should be "There's a thing called learn how to read", which is the Inception-like wormhole of irony.

Secondly, I think what people are trying to say is that we'd definitely like to be a powerhouse. After year 3 under RR I think many of us were expecting year 5 to feature the team contending for a Pac-12 South title, not at the bottom of what is a historically weak division. We want Arizona to mean something. If you're fine with it not meaning anything, that's fine, but that's just you. Don't say "we" when you're obviously only talking about yourself.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:06 am

Harvey Specter wrote:
cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.
And you continue to bemoan the fact that we should not make a change because we might end up even worse than we are now.... celebrate losing 'because it could get even worse' like the fan you are.

We very possibly could be headed straight for 2-10 / 0-9. Only an upset will prevent that from happening, because we will be a considerable underdog in every remaining game. Our best shot at a win is the last one at home vs ASU...

Maybe you can remind us again what a superior coach RR is to Toad, and how Graham only had a better start because he inherited so much more? (There are plenty who were singing that song until very recently)

Were acting like one bad season is going to out RR on hotseat. Harvey Losing record is not going to put the program back several years if that what you think next year is going to be. I have watch worst football than what I'm seeing from our own team. You don't think I'm disgusted on the way season is? Of course I am. Who care if we go 2-10 and 0-9 in conference play, We got next year and the year after. plenty of time for RR and staff to make changes and adjust.

It not about reminding or explaining between RR and Graham. Their both good coaches, both RR and Graham took over two struggle program with difference adversity. Both RR and Graham have coaches their teams to a Division title each and has play for the PAC 12 title, and RR put Arizona in a BCS bowl appearances( Fiesta Bowl), But Graham has won 3 of the 4 TCUP against RR and has out recruited RR in the last 4 recruiting classes. While Graham overall is 39-21 to RR 35-25 and conference record in which a lot of us love to talk about graham 25-15 to RR 17-22. Now who inferior between the two. Look I love my team and I will continues the support them. One bad season is not going to define our future progress.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:00 am

az91 wrote:Per Hansen's article, Rich Rod's buyout is about 7.1 million. There is no way the administration is going to be able to pay that amount.

I wanted to double check this. Math not my best, but...

RR contract currently runs through May 31, 2020
RR gets a $100,000 increase in base salary every June 1st until contract expires
RR base currently is $1,875,000. June 1, 2017 jumps to $1,975,000 etc
As of current contract conditions if RR terminated today without cause, his contract buyout would be $7,475,000
If terminated without cause January 2018, buyout $5,073,000

Gets more interesting here financially. March 2018, RR becomes fully vested in Retention Fund. At current market rate another $3,600,000 kicks in (represents remaining 75%. RR already collected on 25% of Fund). Oil fund on low side now. Who knows what that oil share rate would be in a year and a half.

Assuming no changes in contract, If RR terminated in March 2018, His buyout would be $4,743,750 Base Salary + $3,600,00 Retention

If RR terminated in January 2019, his buyout would be $3,039,583 + $2,400,00 (50% of his vested Retention Fund. RR would have been already been paid additional 25% in March 2018)

Any RR buyouts to school if he were to voluntarily leave have already expired.

End of next season or before March 2018 is the critical financial juncture. Also why RR is not currently in a hot seat with Byrne or Regents

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:10 am

With that kind of money he could easily go back into the broadcast booth and work less than 20 hours a week with 0 stress. There is a reason John Madden never went back into coaching.

Not suggesting RichRod would tank a season for that reason, he wouldn't, but he could never coach again and still live a lavish lifestyle for the rest of his life and live a lot longer.

I don't think college coaching contracts are written like professional coaching ones where a fired coach needs to mitigate the payouts by trying to look for another coaching job.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:15 am

Merkin wrote:With that kind of money he could easily go back into the broadcast booth and work less than 20 hours a week with 0 stress. There is a reason John Madden never went back into coaching.

Not suggesting RichRod would tank a season for that reason, he wouldn't, but he could never coach again and still live a lavish lifestyle for the rest of his life and live a lot longer.

I don't think college coaching contracts are written like professional coaching ones where a fired coach needs to mitigate the payouts by trying to look for another coaching job.

Left out UA on the hook for Yates and Magee until FEB/March 2018 if RR was no longer at AZ. These coordinator contracts do have language to mitigate school payouts IF Yates or Magee were able to get other positions

uacat540 · Post by **uacat540** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:16 am

cordera89 wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
cordera89 wrote:You all sound so freaky stupid, go ahead and cry and moan like the fans you are.
And you continue to bemoan the fact that we should not make a change because we might end up even worse than we are now.... celebrate losing 'because it could get even worse' like the fan you are.

We very possibly could be headed straight for 2-10 / 0-9. Only an upset will prevent that from happening, because we will be a considerable underdog in every remaining game. Our best shot at a win is the last one at home vs ASU...

Maybe you can remind us again what a superior coach RR is to Toad, and how Graham only had a better start because he inherited so much more? (There are plenty who were singing that song until very recently)
Were acting like one bad season is going to out RR on hotseat. Harvey Losing record is not going to put the program back several years if that what you think next year is going to be. I have watch worst football than what I'm seeing from our own team. You don't think I'm disgusted on the way season is? Of course I am. Who care if we go 2-10 and 0-9 in conference play, We got next year and the year after. plenty of time for RR and staff to make changes and adjust.

It not about reminding or explaining between RR and Graham. Their both good coaches, both RR and Graham took over two struggle program with difference adversity. Both RR and Graham have coaches their teams to a Division title each and has play for the PAC 12 title, and RR put Arizona in a BCS bowl appearances( Fiesta Bowl), But Graham has won 3 of the 4 TCUP against RR and has out recruited RR in the last 4 recruiting classes. While Graham overall is 39-21 to RR 35-25 and conference record in which a lot of us love to talk about graham 25-15 to RR 17-22. Now who inferior between the two. Look I love my team and I will continues the support them. One bad season is not going to define our future progress.

Uh....its not one bad season, its two bad seasons in a row with the very real potential of three if next year goes the same. You were the one who said Casteel should not have been fired and it really seems you forget/gloss over the fact that Arizona has zero depth in almost any position on the team. You keep preaching that injuries were the catalyst for last year...the main injury Arizona had last year was Scooby and Anu. Anu has shown he has not progressed from his freshman season so take that one off the board, I do not think he gets us another win over randall et al and Scooby (who i love) doesnt change the season. There will still be a massive depth problems next year with a number of freshman who will be thrown into the starting position. And we will still have massive defensive line problems for the near future. Someone previously brought it up but even stoops could get a guy like Reed or Elmore who were not uber talented but could play the position very well...now we have walk-ons starting everywhere. And the Pac-12 South championship season, RR still did not beat a Southern California team...this is a huge issue. And its not like either team has been a giant for the last 3 or so years. He beat an SC team that was still in its sanction blues and barely beat them at that. Arizona is damn close to being 0-10 against SoCal schools. Even stoops owned UCLA (coaches for UCLA were garbage then) but Mora has proved he is a B level coach with the talent the guy gets. This doesnt boil down to one season, it boils down to 2 very shitty back to back season and a third on the horizon. I bet if RR doesnt with the Pac-12 South in 2014, everyone is singing a very different tune. And that season was more luck then coaching (Peterson forgetting how to coach, Hail Marry in Cal Game). And that team was playing with dudes like Bondurant and Grandon who were damn fine players. Scooby withstanding, RR and team have not developed a single player that you can point at and say he was better when he left.

No one expects Arizona to become a dominant program year in and year out but there is no fucking reason we should be looking at a 2-10 season/1-4 vs ASU/3-16 (17?) conference record. Also, the only bowl RR has made it to was the Fiesta bowl, the rest of the ones do not fucking count...maybe the first year new mexico bowl since it was his first year. Top 3 bowl tie ins with the Pac only count in my mind (Rose, Fiesta, Holiday).

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:39 am

Wow, the UofA is stuck.

That's like your college girlfriend forgetting a pill with subsequent fertile outcome level stuck...

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:31 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Wow, the UofA is stuck.

That's like your college girlfriend forgetting a pill with subsequent fertile outcome level stuck...

eh, forgetting like 2-3 pills

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:33 pm

Can't believe we just can't fire this guy. Too bad we couldn't negotiate a settlement using the values in the retention fund but no way RR would take some asset that is variable related when he could hang his hat on a guarantee buy out.

Lots of good coaches will be looking this year I think. I wish GB would tell RR to stop trying to sell how our problems could be solved in recruiting. He has had 5 years to address that and he didn't. Have to wonder if the S&C guys will be this years scapegoats

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:45 pm

Look, Rich will be here for at least another year, so let's drop it and get behind him and this program right now. We've got some winnable games on the schedule and it's going to be interesting to see some up-and-comers play and to see how this team responds to the adversity.

I like RR and I think and hope we'll turn a little bit of a corner here after the break and next year hopefully will be better.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:10 pm

Winnable games? Who? Furd will run for 300 and unless Anu makes a return (along with a healthy Nick Wilson) we will not have a throwing game and even if Dawkins comes back they will just spy him to death. Not going to beat Wazzu up there and CU will beat us down. Our last 2 games we might have a chance if we get healthy but I just don't see it with our talent levels left that is playing

Look we have thrown more money at him and the program then ever before and we have regressed terribly. This roster is wacko worthy. Walk on's starting on both sides, no progression of players he brought in. The only corner we will be turning is the one over the edge of the cliff

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:21 pm

Hate to say it but I'm totally with azcat49 now :/

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:32 pm

Even if we could fire RR, that doesn't mean we should. Not this year. And certainly not right now.

We have 27 guys pledged for next year. I'm guessing 5-7 don't show up because of decommitments. Fire RR and we'll see 10-12 more bolt. Then the cupboard really is bare.

I'm willing to give the guy another year and a half. If by the end of next year we haven't made serious improvements as far as depth and talent, then it's sayonara señor.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:42 pm

AzCat49 and others are correct. I cannot fathom why it is so hard for most to admit the obvious and what they see with their own eyes. I'm not saying quit or give-up, myself and others are just stating the obvious.

I'm not trying or enjoying dumping on the programs current state. This is utterly brutal to see play out.

It is not a stretch at all to say that 1/3 to 1/2 of this current roster may actually not be PAC12 caliber level players. For sure a 1/3 of them are NOT.

My goodness, the complete dredges of the entire PAC12, just 2 or 3 years ago in Colorado have completely passed us and are very likely to put 50 points on us no problem with the game not even being close.

The situation could not be more dire with this teams massive gaping void of talent and size. How RichRod and Casteel managed to **** this up so bad I can't even put into words, but they own it.

Remaining in denial will not change a thing.

Outside of maybe OSU or maybe ASSU, I don't see this team as even remotely competitive with anyone remaining on the schedule.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:43 pm

yeah a 3-9 season is looking very likely this year and if we can't get above 4-5 wins next year then he's toast.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:01 pm

The reality as I have said before is that most of the kids in the next class are NOT ready to contribute at this level of play. They may be thrown into the fire but they will struggle as you would expect them to.

95% of them are for sure RS players. Outside of Johnson and maybe Tilford there are no game changers that will propel the team to new heights. Most of the production will still have to come from player already on a disadvantaged roster.

Outside of a handful of current players that number in the 35-40 player manpower range that are solid PAC12 players when healthy we drop of significantly in capability from a 85 man roster perspective.

The degree to which the roster reconstruction that needs to take place will be significant to say the least. Living in a parallel world of willful illusion will do nothing to change these dynamics.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:03 pm

I just shudder at the thought of another 2002-2007 period of total suck coming our way.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:29 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:AzCat49 and others are correct. I cannot fathom why it is so hard for most to admit the obvious and what they see with their own eyes. I'm not saying quit or give-up, myself and others are just stating the obvious.

I'm not trying or enjoying dumping on the programs current state. This is utterly brutal to see play out.

It is not a stretch at all to say that 1/3 to 1/2 of this current roster may actually not be PAC12 caliber level players. For sure a 1/3 of them are NOT.

My goodness, the complete dredges of the entire PAC12, just 2 or 3 years ago in Colorado have completely passed us and are very likely to put 50 points on us no problem with the game not even being close.

The situation could not be more dire with this teams massive gaping void of talent and size. How RichRod and Casteel managed to **** this up so bad I can't even put into words, but they own it.

Remaining in denial will not change a thing.

Outside of maybe OSU or maybe ASSU, I don't see this team as even remotely competitive with anyone remaining on the schedule.

We have young guys this year though, right? Red shirts and first year players? There's more help on the way (supposedly) than just the incoming recruits (hopefully).

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:16 pm

There is no doubt Chi is right. That time frame helps stock the cupboard and who knows, may identify an ample person to take over on the defensive staff.

Still RR needs to know how we feel and I am very sure GB is hearing from many fans. I do hope he can clean up his mess but really, I just don't trust that he can

DaddyO'Cat · Post by **DaddyO'Cat** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:47 pm

Chicat wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:AzCat49 and others are correct. I cannot fathom why it is so hard for most to admit the obvious and what they see with their own eyes. I'm not saying quit or give-up, myself and others are just stating the obvious.

I'm not trying or enjoying dumping on the programs current state. This is utterly brutal to see play out.

It is not a stretch at all to say that 1/3 to 1/2 of this current roster may actually not be PAC12 caliber level players. For sure a 1/3 of them are NOT.

My goodness, the complete dredges of the entire PAC12, just 2 or 3 years ago in Colorado have completely passed us and are very likely to put 50 points on us no problem with the game not even being close.

The situation could not be more dire with this teams massive gaping void of talent and size. How RichRod and Casteel managed to **** this up so bad I can't even put into words, but they own it.

Remaining in denial will not change a thing.

Outside of maybe OSU or maybe ASSU, I don't see this team as even remotely competitive with anyone remaining on the schedule.
We have young guys this year though, right? Red shirts and first year players? There's more help on the way (supposedly) than just the incoming recruits (hopefully).

That's actually a good topic for discussion. I have no clue whose all redshirting & it feels like because the situation is so dire that we've had one too many red shirts thrown into the fire already which has exacerbated the problem because they either get injured or are just not plain ready or both. Hence the red shirt. Would be nice to know if we had some dudes here waiting in the wings.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:45 pm

Chicat wrote:Even if we could fire RR, that doesn't mean we should. Not this year. And certainly not right now.

We have 27 guys pledged for next year. I'm guessing 5-7 don't show up because of decommitments. Fire RR and we'll see 10-12 more bolt. Then the cupboard really is bare.

I'm willing to give the guy another year and a half. If by the end of next year we haven't made serious improvements as far as depth and talent, then it's sayonara señor.

If we go winless in conference this year, what are we really holding on to? Other than buyout money.

This is just starting to seem like Stoops's death spiral all over again. Where every game, we're just showing up to be whipped. The Pac really isn't that good this year either and winless really is possible.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:16 pm

Chicat wrote:Even if we could fire RR, that doesn't mean we should. Not this year. And certainly not right now.

We have 27 guys pledged for next year. I'm guessing 5-7 don't show up because of decommitments. Fire RR and we'll see 10-12 more bolt. Then the cupboard really is bare.

I'm willing to give the guy another year and a half. If by the end of next year we haven't made serious improvements as far as depth and talent, then it's sayonara señor.

I think this is a sensible take... but we need to see something positive in the games that remain.

My opinion changes IF we get shut out. If he could not build this roster when he had the promise of a new regime and immediate PT with a brighter future, then I do not see how he does it coming off a winless P12 campaign.

The guys we will lose if that were to happen are likely the ones who might help to turn the tide. Even if they were all to stay, there are not enough of them - but keep the class in tact and let's give him a shot.

The cupboard will be really bare whenever we make a change. If change is inevitable, there is no reason to wait... but it would be nice to avoid cutting bait if there is even a glimmer of hope for a recovery.

Despite his tremendous charisma in social and public settings, RR is at best a marginal recruiter. There is enough data to support that assertion... Whether it is that he falls in love with the underdogs from his days as a walk-on,or he cannot close the deal on enough of the higher tier recruits, it does not matter. IIWII.

I have read about the OKG's who were going to make a difference in every recruiting class. Not sure why last year's group will be much different than the previous 3. The class of '17 does seem to show a bit more promise - but only if it stays in tact.... and we need a win or two coming home to have a prayer of that happening.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:22 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:I just shudder at the thought of another 2002-2007 period of total suck coming our way.

We are getting a pretty good taste of that right now....

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:59 am

I have a real issue with the 'dump RR now' idea. Like I've said before, we were all happy when he turned over the defensive coaches, and we all knew then that this year was going to be rough. Now that we're a few losses into a rough season, calling to dump RR now feels like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction. Add that to the fact that a whole new staff could very well take longer to rebuild the roster than the current one, and I really can't see the logic.

Cordera, I've got no issue with your opinions, but you need to work on your communication skills before calling the rest of us 'stupid'.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:00 pm

Puerco wrote:I have a real issue with the 'dump RR now' idea. Like I've said before, we were all happy when he turned over the defensive coaches, and we all knew then that this year was going to be rough. Now that we're a few losses into a rough season, calling to dump RR now feels like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction. Add that to the fact that a whole new staff could very well take longer to rebuild the roster than the current one, and I really can't see the logic.

Cordera, I've got no issue with your opinions, but you need to work on your communication skills before calling the rest of us 'stupid'.

I doubt many want RR gone right now. I think he gets the rest of the year. What if the rest of the year is winless? That's where I start wondering.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:01 pm

He has 2 weeks and Dawkins back to try and keep it close with Stanford.

If the team has quit on him then, well...

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:21 pm

Puerco wrote:I have a real issue with the 'dump RR now' idea. Like I've said before, we were all happy when he turned over the defensive coaches, and we all knew then that this year was going to be rough. Now that we're a few losses into a rough season, calling to dump RR now feels like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction. Add that to the fact that a whole new staff could very well take longer to rebuild the roster than the current one, and I really can't see the logic.

Cordera, I've got no issue with your opinions, but you need to work on your communication skills before calling the rest of us 'stupid'.

Puerco Keep that too yourself ok. My point is RR should not be in this discussion of being in Hot seat or talk about being fired.

uacat540 · Post by **uacat540** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:33 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Puerco wrote:I have a real issue with the 'dump RR now' idea. Like I've said before, we were all happy when he turned over the defensive coaches, and we all knew then that this year was going to be rough. Now that we're a few losses into a rough season, calling to dump RR now feels like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction. Add that to the fact that a whole new staff could very well take longer to rebuild the roster than the current one, and I really can't see the logic.

Cordera, I've got no issue with your opinions, but you need to work on your communication skills before calling the rest of us 'stupid'.
I doubt many want RR gone right now. I think he gets the rest of the year. What if the rest of the year is winless? That's where I start wondering.

2-10 and a few more beat downs (Colorado, Washington State at a minimum) may change that. I think if Arizona is competitive and maybe sneaks a win against OSU and ASU, he's safe. A beat down by ASU at home...thats bad news in my book

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:40 pm

1-9 v. LA

If you goes 1-4 v. ASU that's it.

Couldn't beat tOSU or MSU while at UM.

Cannot win the big game, cannot beat rivals.

Just follow the basketball model. Get a young energetic head coach at a smaller school.

No more fired coaches. Thought we learned that lesson with Mackovic, although RichRod may get a pass for his UM days, haven't read Three and Out yet.

EDIT: No more coaches without HC experience either. I really like Yates, but Mike Stoops proved that some head coaching experience is necessary.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:42 pm

cordera89 wrote:
Puerco wrote:I have a real issue with the 'dump RR now' idea. Like I've said before, we were all happy when he turned over the defensive coaches, and we all knew then that this year was going to be rough. Now that we're a few losses into a rough season, calling to dump RR now feels like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction. Add that to the fact that a whole new staff could very well take longer to rebuild the roster than the current one, and I really can't see the logic.

Cordera, I've got no issue with your opinions, but you need to work on your communication skills before calling the rest of us 'stupid'.
Puerco Keep that too yourself ok. My point is RR should not be in this discussion of being in Hot seat or talk about being fired.

You've actually failed to make that point, even if that is your intention.

I think a little heat on his seat is good for everyone at this point. Shows were not a bunch of complacent people who don't care and shows RR and Byrne what is expected of them.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:12 pm

uacat540 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Puerco wrote:I have a real issue with the 'dump RR now' idea. Like I've said before, we were all happy when he turned over the defensive coaches, and we all knew then that this year was going to be rough. Now that we're a few losses into a rough season, calling to dump RR now feels like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction. Add that to the fact that a whole new staff could very well take longer to rebuild the roster than the current one, and I really can't see the logic.

Cordera, I've got no issue with your opinions, but you need to work on your communication skills before calling the rest of us 'stupid'.
I doubt many want RR gone right now. I think he gets the rest of the year. What if the rest of the year is winless? That's where I start wondering.

2-10 and a few more beat downs (Colorado, Washington State at a minimum) may change that. I think if Arizona is competitive and maybe sneaks a win against OSU and ASU, he's safe. A beat down by ASU at home...thats bad news in my book

I think there is major heat if we go winless in the Pac. Sneak one or two vs OSU/ASU and the heat dissipates a bit.

What really makes me pause is the idea that we might fall into the pattern of getting blown out. That's what really killed Stoops. Arizona is a pretty low pressure job, but we had a string of nationally televised games where we just got taken to the woodshed and the game was over in the first quarter. The way we were losing was what got Stoops.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:37 pm

If we go winless like you said there is major heat...i just don't see how we can afford it.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:46 pm

Merkin wrote:He has 2 weeks and Dawkins back to try and keep it close with Stanford.

If the team has quit on him then, well...

I can't imagine that the team has or would quit on him. Certainly hope not, of course. I get the impression that they like him, work hard for the staff and the family thing, etc.

Seems to me the Stoops situation was a completely different kind of emotional train wreck. Execution was a total clusterfuck - remember all the confusion coming out of timeouts? How about Antolin up the middle with Ka'Deem Carey sitting on the bench - that's the kind of shit that makes a team quit. I don't think it's that kind of situation with RR.

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