Coach Rod

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:09 pm

I doubt anyone would say hiring RR was a mistake. In fact I think most of us applauded the hire.

It was just fools gold

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:54 pm

I agree, RichRod does get another year.

Note that overall, he does have a winning record playing the Sisters of Mercy Convent and Laredo Teacher's College, however in his 8 year coaching at a Power 5 school he only has one season where he had a winning conference record.

Note this year he is on track to have the only winless conference season in the PAC era.

Besides giving up the 3rd most points in school history against a decent but not overpowering WSU team. Bama I could see.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:51 pm

azcat49 wrote:I doubt anyone would say hiring RR was a mistake. In fact I think most of us applauded the hire.

It was just fools gold

There were a few of us who thought it was a mistake, and got butchered for saying as much... I gladly accepted a serving of crow in season 3, and hope I do again. I think there were signs aplenty of what might be in store - for those who did not read 3 & Out and accept it as Gospel truth. Michigan was "laughing stock of the Big 10" bad (That is MICHIGAN), and the way he left WVU was busch league. Not that he left, but shredding recruiting documents, trying to weasel out of his contract buyout, etc.

C'est la vie.... I absolutely applauded the Stoops hire and was certainly wrong on that one. Even he also had one very good season, though.

As for other comments about this being his "first losing season here"... that is technically correct. IF we go 2-10/ 0-9 - that is not just "a losing season"; it is a career killer - Ask Ty Willingham. In Year 1 of a regime it might be salvageable (see McIntyre)... in year 5 it will be a recruiting and fan incinerator.

We need something positive to close the year, or I think next year could be RR's last. The shadow over the program will be a long one; without some early season fireworks to excite fans - attendance will be abysmal; what do people think will happen with season ticket sales? They aren't going UP.

That and the increased buyout beyond early '18 will be the driving factors making his seat pretty toasty in '17. His off season flirtations aren't helping inspire loyalty from those who would otherwise be on the fence...

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:01 pm

Didn't think hiring RR a mistake at all. Was excited when he accepted the gig. Thought Byrne made a great chess move. Impressed with RR 2012 team. Complete transition to new systems. Really no time but to mostly inherit recruiting class. Matt Scott tuned out to be great QB in his system.

What RR accomplished with Denker as QB was really impressive. Probably best accomplishment other than South Title. Super impressed that RR could fit his roster best skills to the field. Denker for me exemplified that. Ka'Deem helped.

But there were signs for me in 2014 if you look back at the comments. Especially with Defense and recruiting. I would think it would be tough for a program to virtually completely come off the rails as it has a season away from the South crown. Sure it ends with RR but I think there needs to be other changes. I'm sure it's many things that need a turnaround but I don't know if it's just recruiting or coaching or game planning or evaluations or development or or. But it's off the rails. And it happened really fast. Did the coaches get complacent? RR's job to figure out.

If it's recruiting as RR mainly stating then I think other changes need to happen than just targeting higher ranked recruits. How did we get so many supposed mid-major recruits that passed the evaluations process (talent/skill)? It's one thing to be lacking depth and entirely another when team not even competitive over a course of many games. Offense production has come to a halt. Yes, I understand injuries but we have a converted WR a converted TE ahead on the RB depth chart than the other RB's that are on the roster. Guys that were recruited or brought on as RB's. How?

RR in a tough spot. Maybe a no survival. I don't expect him to win more than 3 conference games again next year. It seems the team has fallen that far. Does anyone? He may not win a single conference game this year. This years recruiting class will have little impact for next season. I think the class is better than other RR classes, but not that much better. Not good enough to turn the program around.

I just don't think if it's tough to compete on the field, struggle to win a conference game, that coming back next season standing pat with your cards is going to be enough. Maybe, but I wouldn't want to take that gamble if I was RR.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:52 pm

RazorsEdgeAZ wrote:Didn't think hiring RR a mistake at all. Was excited when he accepted the gig. Thought Byrne made a great chess move. Impressed with RR 2012 team. Complete transition to new systems. Really no time but to mostly inherit recruiting class. Matt Scott tuned out to be great QB in his system.

What RR accomplished with Denker as QB was really impressive. Probably best accomplishment other than South Title. Super impressed that RR could fit his roster best skills to the field. Denker for me exemplified that. Ka'Deem helped.

But there were signs for me in 2014 if you look back at the comments. Especially with Defense and recruiting. I would think it would be tough for a program to virtually completely come off the rails as it has a season away from the South crown. Sure it ends with RR but I think there needs to be other changes. I'm sure it's many things that need a turnaround but I don't know if it's just recruiting or coaching or game planning or evaluations or development or or. But it's off the rails. And it happened really fast. Did the coaches get complacent? RR's job to figure out.

If it's recruiting as RR mainly stating then I think other changes need to happen than just targeting higher ranked recruits. How did we get so many supposed mid-major recruits that passed the evaluations process (talent/skill)? It's one thing to be lacking depth and entirely another when team not even competitive over a course of many games. Offense production has come to a halt. Yes, I understand injuries but we have a converted WR a converted TE ahead on the RB depth chart than the other RB's that are on the roster. Guys that were recruited or brought on as RB's. How?

RR in a tough spot. Maybe a no survival. I don't expect him to win more than 3 conference games again next year. It seems the team has fallen that far. Does anyone? He may not win a single conference game this year. This years recruiting class will have little impact for next season. I think the class is better than other RR classes, but not that much better. Not good enough to turn the program around.

I just don't think if it's tough to compete on the field, struggle to win a conference game, that coming back next season standing pat with your cards is going to be enough. Maybe, but I wouldn't want to take that gamble if I was RR.

Fair and balanced post REAz. The only issue I would take with the premise is the implication that RR gets all the credit for the '14 success but the assistants are responsible for the implosion since. It is just about impossible to NOT make any changes after a season like this one - and he is not firing himself - so I get your point. But he'll need to make some immediate impact changes, because I do not think many will be inclined to take the "give him more time to let the effect of this round of changes play out" perspective.

3 conf wins next year, if we do get run from here out in '16, would make 6-21 (0.222) over to 3 year stretch. Ouch... Even ASU BB is not THAT bad.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:22 am

SCCats wrote:
Merkin wrote:Chief could take over Special Teams and do a better job. Worst special teams I have seen in quite some time. And this with Stoops not giving a shit about ST either.

Makes me really miss Tomey, cared about defense and special teams.
How many years have you and I been talking to each other about teams now? Stretches out over a decade at this point?

It's just amazing that coaches just don't care about them.

A chunk of Beamer's success at VTech is due to his precision on special teams, but people can't seem to figure it out for some reason.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:13 pm

I don't have a desire to watch our remaining Pac games. It just feels like waiting for the inevitable blowout.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:48 pm

I doubt I'll watch the game Saturday at this point. It is another 8 pm start and that evening will be the first time in about 4-5 days I'll have been able to see my wife for more than a few minutes due to our schedules being backwards. So we'll probably go out and do something or see a movie maybe. Not worth it seeing us lose by 40 to Colorado.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:56 pm

No chance I'm watching. RR has lost this former diehard. I'll revisit my fandom in the offseason. All I'm looking for is a reason to be hopeful for the future.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:36 pm

I'll probably watch if I'm not out or doing something else.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:59 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:I'll probably watch if I'm not out or doing something else.

Well you won't have to watch long LOL. By 10pm you can move on to something more enjoyable

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:31 pm

well by 9 pm we should already be down about 31-3 so yeah

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:38 pm

RichRod to Cincy?

http://247sports.com/Article/College-co ... e-48878550" target="_blank

Rich Rodriguez, Arizona

The native West Virginian sought a job closer to home last fall, but Virginia Tech didn’t consider him and he scoffed at an offer from South Carolina. What now that the injury-riddled Wildcats are 2-7? Has the market dried up for RichRod? A place like Cincinnati might make add up if it decides to fire Tommy Tuberville. Remember that’s how Tuberville got to Cincinnati, when he parachuted in from Texas Tech.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:08 pm

Woohoo! I feel like someone just asked me on Craigslist about my lawnmower that hasn't worked the past two years.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:14 am

Morales on UA coaches v. ranked teams.

http://allsportstucson.com/2016/11/12/o ... -wildcats/" target="_blank

Coach Years Record Biggest win
Darrell Mudra 1967-68 0-3 None
Bob Weber 1969-72 1-6 Def. No.20 Utah 17-16 on 11/15/1969
Jim Young 1973-76 1-5 Def. No.13 San Diego State 31-24 on 11/8/1975
Tony Mason 1977-79 0-8 None
Larry Smith 1980-86 8-13-1 Def. No.1 USC 13-10 on 10/10/1981
Dick Tomey 1987-2000 21-29 Def. No.1 Washington 16-3 on 11/7/1992
John Mackovic 2001-03 0-9 None
Mike Hankwitz 2003 0-2 None
Mike Stoops 2004-11 8-24 Def. No.2 Oregon 34-24 11/15/2007
Rich Rodriguez 2012-16 7-15 Def. No.2 Oregon 31-24 10/2/2014

Very telling too:

But a loss against the Buffaloes tonight would put Rodriguez at 1-8 against ranked teams since clinching the Pac-12 South title with a victory over No. 13 ASU on Nov. 28, 2014. That kind of stretch puts Rodriguez on the defensive with his critics.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:32 pm

Merkin wrote:RichRod to Cincy?

http://247sports.com/Article/College-co ... e-48878550" target="_blank

Rich Rodriguez, Arizona

The native West Virginian sought a job closer to home last fall, but Virginia Tech didn’t consider him and he scoffed at an offer from South Carolina. What now that the injury-riddled Wildcats are 2-7? Has the market dried up for RichRod? A place like Cincinnati might make add up if it decides to fire Tommy Tuberville. Remember that’s how Tuberville got to Cincinnati, when he parachuted in from Texas Tech.

I can't see how we get that lucky. The basketball gods owe it to us, but still that's just not our usual luck. Also, you'd think that Cincy would have learned their lesson anyways.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:23 pm

Please happen.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:40 pm

They would have to have the dumbest AD in the country for this to happen. No chance.

I really want him to eat this shit sandwich he made and if he gets fired then it's all on him. If he turns it around, great. Either way we win but I don't just want him to leave where he gets out unscathed

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:18 pm

azcat49 wrote:They would have to have the dumbest AD in the country for this to happen. No chance.

I really want him to eat this shit sandwich he made and if he gets fired then it's all on him. If he turns it around, great. Either way we win but I don't just want him to leave where he gets out unscathed

I would agree with your sentiment, except there's one major benefit to a scenario like that: $$$. It would flip from us owing him $8m to him/another school paying us something. I don't know what the buyout would be, even if there wasn't one, just that 8 is a huge factor.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:23 pm

It's like the episode of The Office where a transferred employee from Scranton didn't like working for Michael so he quit. Then Michael goes: You can't quit, you're fired!

Then Jan calls up Michael and says great, now we owe him severance.

So I agree with PRH. Let him move on, on his own!

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:23 pm

Watching RR rant on the sidelines is reminiscent of Mike Stoops... curious that it gets so little mention by comparison.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:38 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:Watching RR rant on the sidelines is reminiscent of Mike Stoops... curious that it gets so little mention by comparison.

Agree, though it's slightly less intense and slightly less frequent than Stoops was. Just lots of mini-Stoops meltdowns. But still a disappointing development, and it does seem to be getting worse.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:33 pm

2-8 weeeee

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:37 am

Merkin wrote:RichRod to Cincy?

http://247sports.com/Article/College-co ... e-48878550" target="_blank

Rich Rodriguez, Arizona

The native West Virginian sought a job closer to home last fall, but Virginia Tech didn’t consider him and he scoffed at an offer from South Carolina. What now that the injury-riddled Wildcats are 2-7? Has the market dried up for RichRod? A place like Cincinnati might make add up if it decides to fire Tommy Tuberville. Remember that’s how Tuberville got to Cincinnati, when he parachuted in from Texas Tech.

Yeah, gotta be one of those "zero chance" situations. nobody is swooping in to take this guy off our hands.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:51 am

How about this interesting tid bit

"Nov.13, 2014, Arizona was 8-2 and the Buffaloes were 2-8. Colorado would go on to finish 0-9 in the Pac-12, and the Wildcats would win the Territorial Cup and the South division championship."

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:03 am

cats101 wrote:How about this interesting tid bit

"Nov.13, 2014, Arizona was 8-2 and the Buffaloes were 2-8. Colorado would go on to finish 0-9 in the Pac-12, and the Wildcats would win the Territorial Cup and the South division championship."

Well, they haven't out-recruited us. So,unfortunately for RichRod, the only glaring difference is coaching.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:02 am

Chicat wrote:
cats101 wrote:How about this interesting tid bit

"Nov.13, 2014, Arizona was 8-2 and the Buffaloes were 2-8. Colorado would go on to finish 0-9 in the Pac-12, and the Wildcats would win the Territorial Cup and the South division championship."
Well, they haven't out-recruited us. So,unfortunately for RichRod, the only glaring difference is coaching.

I read somewhere that a very high percentage of the kids graduating at CU this year, even though not highly ranked, are still on the team.

They've managed to avoid career ending injuries (luck, strength & conditioning, scheme maybe?) and players transferring/ quitting? (OKGs?)

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:10 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
cats101 wrote:How about this interesting tid bit

"Nov.13, 2014, Arizona was 8-2 and the Buffaloes were 2-8. Colorado would go on to finish 0-9 in the Pac-12, and the Wildcats would win the Territorial Cup and the South division championship."
Well, they haven't out-recruited us. So,unfortunately for RichRod, the only glaring difference is coaching.
I read somewhere that a very high percentage of the kids graduating at CU this year, even though not highly ranked, are still on the team.

They've managed to avoid career ending injuries (luck, strength & conditioning, scheme maybe?) and players transferring/ quitting? (OKGs?)

Well that pretty much tells the story about our last four recruiting classes. Career ending injuries? We have a few of those, Players transferring? We have a few of those, Players Quitting? We have a few of those. Strength & Conditioning? It is the cause of our injuries riddle seasons we been having, Scheme? Has RR learn anything on how to adapt to his offensive approach and defensive approach. How unlucky we are to not be like Colorado.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:07 pm

One possibility with the strength and conditioning of the program, it could be killing off the program from within.

We've been recruiting tons of 2 and 3 star OKGs, and most of them aren't the prototypical size of 4/5 stars. Simply smaller in stature and frame. We redshirt 'em and then try and build them up into 5 star physique guys, but their body frames are really only built for a 2 or 3 star physique. All that extra muscle on the frame is very hard on the tendons and ligaments of the knees, feet and ankles, hips...those have poor blood supply and don't expand in increased size along with the added 50 lbs of muscles exerting force on them. Injury is inevitable. Plus tons of extra stress on the bones. One recent example being Scooby, who was great as a freshman playing at his normal weight--he was lithe and aggressive--then the first offseason he bulked WAY up his upper body and immediately tore up his knee and foot for the whole season. I'm not saying you can't bulk up to play football, it just seems the way we're going about it with the whole thing could be setting us up for these super high injury rates.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:22 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:One possibility with the strength and conditioning of the program, it could be killing off the program from within.

We've been recruiting tons of 2 and 3 star OKGs, and most of them aren't the prototypical size of 4/5 stars. Simply smaller in stature and frame. We redshirt 'em and then try and build them up into 5 star physique guys, but their body frames are really only built for a 2 or 3 star physique. All that extra muscle on the frame is very hard on the tendons and ligaments of the knees, feet and ankles, hips...those have poor blood supply and don't expand in increased size along with the added 50 lbs of muscles exerting force on them. Injury is inevitable. Plus tons of extra stress on the bones. One recent example being Scooby, who was great as a freshman playing at his normal weight--he was lithe and aggressive--then the first offseason he bulked WAY up his upper body and immediately tore up his knee and foot for the whole season. I'm not saying you can't bulk up to play football, it just seems the way we're going about it with the whole thing could be setting us up for these super high injury rates.

Scooby had issues his jr year. His sophmore year was his dominant one.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:09 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:
Merkin wrote:RichRod to Cincy?

http://247sports.com/Article/College-co ... e-48878550" target="_blank

Rich Rodriguez, Arizona

The native West Virginian sought a job closer to home last fall, but Virginia Tech didn’t consider him and he scoffed at an offer from South Carolina. What now that the injury-riddled Wildcats are 2-7? Has the market dried up for RichRod? A place like Cincinnati might make add up if it decides to fire Tommy Tuberville. Remember that’s how Tuberville got to Cincinnati, when he parachuted in from Texas Tech.
Yeah, gotta be one of those "zero chance" situations. nobody is swooping in to take this guy off our hands.

Happened with Memphis and Pastner and to a lesser extent Sark at Washington, maybe we can finally get some luck on our side.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:44 am

RR on the verge of becoming the only UA coach to have 9 straight PAC conference losses. Right now he's tied with Stoops at 8. Stoops was fired after his 8th straight conference loss. Stoops also had lost 10 of his last 11 overall games.

Been as many as 10 straight PAC conference losses but that spanned across two coaches:

10 straight conf losses 2000-2001 Tomey-Mackovic (Tomey-5 'resigned', Mack-5)
8 straight conf losses 2010-2011 Stoops (Fired)
8 straight conf losses 2015-2016 Rodriguez
7 straight conf losses 2003-2004 Hankwitz-Stoops (Hankwitz-2, Stoops-5)

RR has now lost 12 of his last 16 overall games. 11 of his last 12 conference games.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:58 am

Byrne has to somehow figure how, but RR got to go.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Byrne saw the empty stands during the CU game better than anyone.

If RichRod is the only coach to not win a conference game during a season in the PAC era, and ends up 1-4 v. ASU, Byrne has no choice.

RichRod even has an extra PAC game now to not lose. PAC started playing 9 conference games instead of 8 during the Stoops years.

Pay Cincy to take him.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:49 pm

Merkin wrote:Byrne saw the empty stands during the CU game better than anyone.

If RichRod is the only coach to not win a conference game during a season in the PAC era, and ends up 1-4 v. ASU, Byrne has no choice.

RichRod even has an extra PAC game now to not lose. PAC started playing 9 conference games instead of 8 during the Stoops years.

Pay Cincy to take him.

Merkin does those Byrnes realize that no average fan will stay to watch entire game regardless of how bad we are this season and byrne cant control that.

Regardless of RR being the first UA Coach to have a winless conference record in the school history. Well Record are meant to be broken and History can be rewritten. That nothing new for Arizona football.

Of course our AD does have a choice? But What choices is he going to look at?. Attendance record dropping, First losing season in 4 of 5 season Under RR, Losing Record to LA school, Losing rival record to ASU, Poor Defense performance 4 of 5 season, Rash of Injury in 15 and 16 season, Losing Conference record 4 of 5 season, Non Competitive Football team, Poor Recruiting, Poor Coaching. Is their anything I miss before I get ban from here. If these are the choices, Then we are in a rude awakening.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:58 pm

Haha, I think you summed it up well Cordaro. That should (but probably won't) seal RR's demise as our head coach.

For the life of me I can't understand why he gets a pass on injuries. yes his RB's have been decimated but other than Anu missing a few games we have had at least one healthy QB for most of the games all year.

We finally have them both back relatively healthy and Grant goes for 113 yards at RB and we still get drilled. The lines are worthless (both of them), the DB's can't cover anyone (and RR keeps telling us how good these young guys will be) and the LB's are very very average players (half of them transfers from power 5 teams where they couldn't earn time there). Special teams are pathetic

This team is stocked with RR guys (whats left of them) and we can clearly see they are not talented enough or have not been coached up enough. Time to cut bait and lets stop defending this guy. He is reaping what he sowed

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:14 pm

I think that's what depresses me the most, 49. I suppose I'm used to having a crap defensive line, but the O line has been good till last year and then now. Bad, bad sign of things to come.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:24 pm

The fate of RR's future does not lie in giving him another year to see how it works outs.

There are primarily two to three factors that are dictating the current dynamics of RR's tenure as head coach.

1. The lucrative financial balloon pay package and buyout dictates that Greg Byrne and wealthy backers set up for Miller and RR is guiding this process. The dollars involved may not mean jack shit to a school like Michigan, OSU, Notre Dame, Alabama, LSU, etc.

But those funding issues are absolutely a roadblock at a school like Arizona.

2. Greg Byrne has a legacy and connection to RR now, and to cut him loose would mean a complete failure of the evaluation on GB's part, even though we know GB is a superb evaluater of coaches, thus the added leyway for additional time.

The money is the first and most impactful roadblock to letting RR go, but the hiring connection is a close second.

If we were talking about any other football coaching hire from a previous AD, with no GB connection, I suspect a change of guard would have already taken place or in the works.

I would be remiss if I did not include the new defensive coaches hiring as a mitigating issue in the overall equation.

A difficult situation to be sure.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:52 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:The fate of RR's future does not lie in giving him another year to see how it works outs.

There are primarily two to three factors that are dictating the current dynamics of RR's tenure as head coach.

1. The lucrative financial balloon pay package and buyout dictates that Greg Byrne and wealthy backers set up for Miller and RR is guiding this process. The dollars involved may not mean jack shit to a school like Michigan, OSU, Notre Dame, Alabama, LSU, etc.

But those funding issues are absolutely a roadblock at a school like Arizona.

2. Greg Byrne has a legacy and connection to RR now, and to cut him loose would mean a complete failure of the evaluation on GB's part, even though we know GB is a superb evaluater of coaches, thus the added leyway for additional time.

The money is the first and most impactful roadblock to letting RR go, but the hiring connection is a close second.

If we were talking about any other football coaching hire from a previous AD, with no GB connection, I suspect a change of guard would have already taken place or in the works.

I would be remiss if I did not include the new defensive coaches hiring as a mitigating issue in the overall equation.

A difficult situation to be sure.

Is Byrne going to fired RR in his first losing season in five year plus with the first year defensive staff that was brought in to improve our defense because that would of been a waste.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:58 pm

I'm pulling for Rich Rod, this coaching staff, and this group of kids.

Thinking next year can be way better.

Bear Down.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:16 pm

cordera89 wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:The fate of RR's future does not lie in giving him another year to see how it works outs.

There are primarily two to three factors that are dictating the current dynamics of RR's tenure as head coach.

1. The lucrative financial balloon pay package and buyout dictates that Greg Byrne and wealthy backers set up for Miller and RR is guiding this process. The dollars involved may not mean jack shit to a school like Michigan, OSU, Notre Dame, Alabama, LSU, etc.

But those funding issues are absolutely a roadblock at a school like Arizona.

2. Greg Byrne has a legacy and connection to RR now, and to cut him loose would mean a complete failure of the evaluation on GB's part, even though we know GB is a superb evaluater of coaches, thus the added leyway for additional time.

The money is the first and most impactful roadblock to letting RR go, but the hiring connection is a close second.

If we were talking about any other football coaching hire from a previous AD, with no GB connection, I suspect a change of guard would have already taken place or in the works.

I would be remiss if I did not include the new defensive coaches hiring as a mitigating issue in the overall equation.

A difficult situation to be sure.
Is Byrne going to fired RR in his first losing season in five year plus with the first year defensive staff that was brought in to improve our defense because that would of been a waste.

If RR was actually letting that new staff call all the shots and run the defense, then I would be more inclined to see what they can do... they aren't, as RR is still involved and demanding they run the 3-3-5.

RR has run it in a BCS conference for 8 straight years with trocious results through 4 different DC's. Where are all the '3 & Out' disciples proclaiming the reason it did not work in Ann Arbor was because "the UM AD did not give RR enough $$$ to bring Casteel. Otherwise, things would have been very different... because JC knew the 3-3-5 better than ANYBODY!"

It's the same shitty scheme being mandated by the same guy who has been in charge for all the other years it failed. The new staff was window dressing to buy time.... Casteel was fired 1 month after RR interviewed at So Carolina - it took a while ti sink in that he needed to make some moves for appearances sake to improve his job security with the roster he had returning.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:20 pm

I've seen a mix of defensive fronts, it seems that Marcel is calling his own stuff. He's staying with a lot of 3 man fronts due to personnel and depth issues, it seems to me. I don't know any of the defensive coaches, but Marcel admitted that he would build off of the former scheme to transition to his over time when he was hired. I'm pretty sure RR has his hands full with the offense and the train wreck it has become.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:59 pm

wyo-cat wrote:I've seen a mix of defensive fronts, it seems that Marcel is calling his own stuff. He's staying with a lot of 3 man fronts due to personnel and depth issues, it seems to me. I don't know any of the defensive coaches, but Marcel admitted that he would build off of the former scheme to transition to his over time when he was hired. I'm pretty sure RR has his hands full with the offense and the train wreck it has become.

How many recruiting class does Yates need to put it off the slow transition from 335 to 425.
The way the season is, Yates and Defensive staff wont get credit due if RR get fired and it would be a shitty waste on the defensive staff.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:34 pm

carcassdragger wrote:I'm pulling for Rich Rod, this coaching staff, and this group of kids.

Thinking next year can be way better.

Bear Down.

Me too, and the offensive line will be much much better next year. Especially with Nathan coming in with a year under his belt. Losing Grant and Neal at WR is going to hurt, but Brown's emergence has been a bright spot this year. I also think we should start working Dawkins at WR for next year as Anu at QB will be the only way we win. Hopefully we see a lot of 2 back set's next year for Wilson & Taylor....or put one of them in the slot.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:44 pm

And when have we seen RR be flexible like you suggest? Many have called for a 2 back set, jet sweeps and the use of TE's in the seam but we never see it. We lose our top 3 wide outs and other then Brown we really have little behind those guys.

Why is this abysmal OLUNE going to be better? Experience? Elitise and Walker? No one has improved over his 5 years on the OLine. Just wondering where your optimism stems from

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:37 pm

azcat49 wrote:And when have we seen RR be flexible like you suggest? Many have called for a 2 back set, jet sweeps and the use of TE's in the seam but we never see it. We lose our top 3 wide outs and other then Brown we really have little behind those guys.

Why is this abysmal OLUNE going to be better? Experience? Elitise and Walker? No one has improved over his 5 years on the OLine. Just wondering where your optimism stems from

I do think experience and adding Walker and Eliste to the line will help this bunch. And losing a certain someone should help too. I also think Alasdek should be playing at Tackle, but what do i know lol.

Denson is starting to show he can fill in at a slot or WR next year along with Johnson & Brown. Hopefully Poindexter improves along with the rest of the bunch. You could always put Johnson out there, buti think he's destined for the D. Tilford coming in solidifies the RB's as Green has shown himself to be reliable this year. Cobb will be back at full strenth hopefully and Wood has shown some of the best improvement on the team.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:03 pm

cordera89 wrote:
wyo-cat wrote:I've seen a mix of defensive fronts, it seems that Marcel is calling his own stuff. He's staying with a lot of 3 man fronts due to personnel and depth issues, it seems to me. I don't know any of the defensive coaches, but Marcel admitted that he would build off of the former scheme to transition to his over time when he was hired. I'm pretty sure RR has his hands full with the offense and the train wreck it has become.
How many recruiting class does Yates need to put it off the slow transition from 335 to 425.
The way the season is, Yates and Defensive staff wont get credit due if RR get fired and it would be a shitty waste on the defensive staff.

This is true, cordera. It doesn't tip the scales in the favor of keeping RichRod, but it is true nonetheless.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:31 am

hmmm....

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:37 am

Puerco wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
wyo-cat wrote:I've seen a mix of defensive fronts, it seems that Marcel is calling his own stuff. He's staying with a lot of 3 man fronts due to personnel and depth issues, it seems to me. I don't know any of the defensive coaches, but Marcel admitted that he would build off of the former scheme to transition to his over time when he was hired. I'm pretty sure RR has his hands full with the offense and the train wreck it has become.
How many recruiting class does Yates need to put it off the slow transition from 335 to 425.
The way the season is, Yates and Defensive staff wont get credit due if RR get fired and it would be a shitty waste on the defensive staff.
This is true, cordera. It doesn't tip the scales in the favor of keeping RichRod, but it is true nonetheless.

Then it forces his hand to not do anything at this point. Fired him with a first year staff on defense? It will be waste of credit due to them. He be back next regardless how the season end.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:55 am

cordera89 wrote:
Puerco wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
wyo-cat wrote:I've seen a mix of defensive fronts, it seems that Marcel is calling his own stuff. He's staying with a lot of 3 man fronts due to personnel and depth issues, it seems to me. I don't know any of the defensive coaches, but Marcel admitted that he would build off of the former scheme to transition to his over time when he was hired. I'm pretty sure RR has his hands full with the offense and the train wreck it has become.
How many recruiting class does Yates need to put it off the slow transition from 335 to 425.
The way the season is, Yates and Defensive staff wont get credit due if RR get fired and it would be a shitty waste on the defensive staff.
This is true, cordera. It doesn't tip the scales in the favor of keeping RichRod, but it is true nonetheless.
Then it forces his hand to not do anything at this point. Fired him with a first year staff on defense? It will be waste of credit due to them. He be back next regardless how the season end.

I think he'll be back for the financial reasons gladiator cat listed above, but that doesn't make it the right decision. The chances of him turning this nightmare of a roster around feel vanishingly small, so you've just lost a year. You've saved the money you'd have to pay a new hire for one year, but you'll miss out on some gate revenue which you'd have gotten with the buzz that comes from a fresh coaching hire. What about donor cash? I don't know where that impact might end up.

So maybe you save a couple million versus letting RichRod go after next year, but you do that at the cost of setting your program back by a year or more. Is it worth it? Not to me as a fan, but I'm not in charge of the budget.

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