Coach Rod

[Merkin]

I agree. Keep Rich Rod. I think next year is going to be special.

Why is that CPT? Cats lose their OL, 2 out of the 3 top RBs, Tate is no longer a surprise and may be injury prone. Still don't have any WRs that can get separation, so every D will make Tate try and beat them long. No quality backup QB when Tate inevitably gets injured.

D will be better, but ending up bottom 15 again we can only look up.

Don't see any huge impact true freshmen recruits coming in: https://247sports.com/college/arizona/S ... ll/Commits" target="_blank

but may get surprised again.

[PHXCATS]

I agree. Keep Rich Rod. I think next year is going to be special.

Why is that CPT? Cats lose their OL, 2 out of the 3 top RBs, Tate is no longer a surprise and may be injury prone. Still don't have any WRs that can get separation, so every D will make Tate try and beat them long. No quality backup QB when Tate inevitably gets injured.

D will be better, but ending up bottom 15 again we can only look up.

Don't see any huge impact true freshmen recruits coming in: https://247sports.com/college/arizona/S ... ll/Commits" target="_blank

but may get surprised again.

I will take a stab at it, but hope CPT does as well.

Online we have guys with talent that backup the current guys. May take a few games to fully gel but they will be able to push guys around. Especially if the NCAA grants an extra year for those that deserve it.

We have a 4 star RB learning the system waiting. Green was great but mostly short yardage and Wilson was hurt a lot. Taylor and the QBs were the lead guys moving the ball on the ground all year. So not that big of a deal.

D Tate will get more time to get his wings going again for football where he could have played anywhere in the country and his body is better now than it was at 18.

And again, per play U of A was average and there are young guys on defense that will improve with getting stronger and learning the college game more.

9 wins or you are out of here RR and 9 wins is completely doable.

[Harvey Specter]

Need to put some perspective on RR and UA football program. RR now owns half of the winning conference records the UA program has had the last 19 years. He now has two. RR is the only coach since UA joined the Pac to improve his teams conference record by 4 games from one year to the next. RR has a P12 South title to his name.

UA has been that bad. UA football has been irrelevant for two decades now. It just has been. Having said that, RR, like or not has performed better than other UA coaches in last two decades. That's some perspective. Not on RR necessarily but with the UA program in general.

When UA joined the Pac in 1978 and for the first twenty years, UA was neck and neck with UCLA as having 2nd most conference winning season records. They were somewhat Relevant. From 1978-1998 only Washington and USC had more conference winning season records than UCLA or UA.

UA had More than Oregon, Stanford, ASU, Cal, Oregon st or Wazzu from 1978-1998

In last 19 years, UA has fallen behind ALL OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS with number of conference winning records. Since 1999, UA has 4 seasons with conference winning records. Except for Utah and Colorado who just recently joined the Pac, UA in the last 19 years have LESS winning conference records than every other PAC-10 school. Irrelevant.

But that is what has become UA football program. Some of you haven't been UA fans longer than 19 years, so easier to compare RR's performance with other coaches

19 or 20 years is a long enough resume to get some perspective of what UA football has become or allowed itself to become. It's become irrelevant and somehow in the last twenty years it still is, even with RR "propping up" the conference records. Maybe it's not all on the coaches.

I will not dispute your facts, but I do think some context is needed:

1. The other coach to have 2 conference winning seasons in the last 19 years was Mike Stoops. The only other coach we have had in that duration was John Mackovic. (I find it extremely conveniently select "19 years" as the benchmark... but it suits the agenda Scheer was trying to push when he tweeted that. We have also had 4 winning conference records in the last 10 years.

2. No coach has ever improved his team's conference record by 4 games from one year to the next because no coach has ever won 1 conference game in a season and had the opportunity to keep his job and have that chance.

3. No 'Southern Division' ever existed before Rodriguez, so he is the ONLY coach who has had that opportunity. Mike Stoops would have won one if it existed during his tenure, and I suspect Tomey would have had multiple (but am too lazy to look it up).

4. In years 3-6 of each coach's respective tenure, each coach had the following conference record/ winning %
- Mike Stoops 0.528 19-17
- Rich Rodriguez 0.432 16-21 (And that includes those 2 spectacular winning seasons)

So I guess the sorry state that the UA program is in is not reversible, and we must resign ourselves to our fate as a regular bottom dweller? I don't buy that.

But according to the argument above, short of a CFB version of Life Alert - "Our program has fallen and it cannot get up".

[Harvey Specter]

RR is coming back so I hope that the optimists were right and we can win 9 games next year... I will be shocked and ecstatic if that proves to be the case. Hell, win 8 and I will be really, really happy if it includes a victory over ASU.

It amazes me the degree to which people dismiss the loss of our entire OL. For not only obvious reasons, but also because our hope for any success is tied to the health of a QB who has been injury prone throughout his career.

[cpt]

I agree. Keep Rich Rod. I think next year is going to be special.

Why is that CPT? Cats lose their OL, 2 out of the 3 top RBs, Tate is no longer a surprise and may be injury prone. Still don't have any WRs that can get separation, so every D will make Tate try and beat them long. No quality backup QB when Tate inevitably gets injured.

D will be better, but ending up bottom 15 again we can only look up.

Don't see any huge impact true freshmen recruits coming in: https://247sports.com/college/arizona/S ... ll/Commits" target="_blank

but may get surprised again.

Very favorable schedule. Right now, I count 9-10 games we should be favored in. Lots of freshmen starting, especially on defense and I see a leap forward there. Tate is a superior talent and will show it again next year. I think RichRod's system is still the best spread system in the game. I am optimistic. If RichRod fails to meet expectations next year, I'm ready to support a change. But...ASU game notwithstanding...we outperformed expectations this year and Rich Rod earned another shot.

[UALoco]

I agree. Keep Rich Rod. I think next year is going to be special.

Why is that CPT? Cats lose their OL, 2 out of the 3 top RBs, Tate is no longer a surprise and may be injury prone. Still don't have any WRs that can get separation, so every D will make Tate try and beat them long. No quality backup QB when Tate inevitably gets injured.

D will be better, but ending up bottom 15 again we can only look up.

Don't see any huge impact true freshmen recruits coming in: https://247sports.com/college/arizona/S ... ll/Commits" target="_blank

but may get surprised again.

Very favorable schedule. Right now, I count 9-10 games we should be favored in. Lots of freshmen starting, especially on defense and I see a leap forward there. Tate is a superior talent and will show it again next year. I think RichRod's system is still the best spread system in the game. I am optimistic. If RichRod fails to meet expectations next year, I'm ready to support a change. But...ASU game notwithstanding...we outperformed expectations this year and Rich Rod earned another shot.

Not worried about RB, we have Nathan Tilden and more folks to pick up the slack left by the Seniors. I'm not worried about receivers, we can us the TE more and our receivers are getting better. Hopefully Tate's timing improves a bit as he was late the few times he did miss. Also, I think RR will open the pass game a bit more as confidence in Tate's throwing game rises. I am worried about the Oline...hopefully Friekh gets that fifth year, maybe pick up a grad transfer. D-line will need to beef up too and need a grad transfer as well. I'm optimistic about next year. With Chip Kelly and the new ASU coach coming in, and with Rosen and Darnold(hopefully) bolting for the NFL, we might be sitting pretty. The window is closing though, we need a break out year next year because USC will find their next QB and Chip will get his offense installed, then few years after next will be tough.

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

Need to put some perspective on RR and UA football program. RR now owns half of the winning conference records the UA program has had the last 19 years. He now has two. RR is the only coach since UA joined the Pac to improve his teams conference record by 4 games from one year to the next. RR has a P12 South title to his name.

UA has been that bad. UA football has been irrelevant for two decades now. It just has been. Having said that, RR, like or not has performed better than other UA coaches in last two decades. That's some perspective. Not on RR necessarily but with the UA program in general.

When UA joined the Pac in 1978 and for the first twenty years, UA was neck and neck with UCLA as having 2nd most conference winning season records. They were somewhat Relevant. From 1978-1998 only Washington and USC had more conference winning season records than UCLA or UA.

UA had More than Oregon, Stanford, ASU, Cal, Oregon st or Wazzu from 1978-1998

In last 19 years, UA has fallen behind ALL OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS with number of conference winning records. Since 1999, UA has 4 seasons with conference winning records. Except for Utah and Colorado who just recently joined the Pac, UA in the last 19 years have LESS winning conference records than every other PAC-10 school. Irrelevant.

But that is what has become UA football program. Some of you haven't been UA fans longer than 19 years, so easier to compare RR's performance with other coaches

19 or 20 years is a long enough resume to get some perspective of what UA football has become or allowed itself to become. It's become irrelevant and somehow in the last twenty years it still is, even with RR "propping up" the conference records. Maybe it's not all on the coaches.

I will not dispute your facts, but I do think some context is needed:

1. The other coach to have 2 conference winning seasons in the last 19 years was Mike Stoops. The only other coach we have had in that duration was John Mackovic. (I find it extremely conveniently select "19 years" as the benchmark... but it suits the agenda Scheer was trying to push when he tweeted that. We have also had 4 winning conference records in the last 10 years.

2. No coach has ever improved his team's conference record by 4 games from one year to the next because no coach has ever won 1 conference game in a season and had the opportunity to keep his job and have that chance.

3. No 'Southern Division' ever existed before Rodriguez, so he is the ONLY coach who has had that opportunity. Mike Stoops would have won one if it existed during his tenure, and I suspect Tomey would have had multiple (but am too lazy to look it up).

4. In years 3-6 of each coach's respective tenure, each coach had the following conference record/ winning %
- Mike Stoops 0.528 19-17
- Rich Rodriguez 0.432 16-21 (And that includes those 2 spectacular winning seasons)

So I guess the sorry state that the UA program is in is not reversible, and we must resign ourselves to our fate as a regular bottom dweller? I don't buy that.

But according to the argument above, short of a CFB version of Life Alert - "Our program has fallen and it cannot get up".

OK,

Make it since since 1995 then and the 1st 17 years and last 22 years and the facts remain the same. We can pull in some of Tomey. And if you read my point, it's more about the program than the coach.

Now you're being selective. Stoops had the chance to improve a team from a previous 1 conference win season. Didn't improve it by 4 the next year. Both Tomey and Stoops had 2 conference win seasons to improve on. neither improved it by 4 the next season. Stoops twice. Best he did was 2 win improvement.

Throw out RR's South Title. Makes my point even more amplified.

My point is, 22 years now with your critique and UA still has more losing conference records than the rest of the "original" pac-10 in last 22 years. Utah recently joined and already has 3. I'm comparing to rest of the Pac-12. Not coaches. It's a reality. Only performance changes that.

first 17 years in the pac, and UA was competing. Last 22, rarely. I don't like it. But it is what it is.

[scumdevils86]

The fact that some of our fans think that Stoops did "alright here" tells you everything you need to know about our homer pro mediocrity crowd.

[PHXCATS]

Name one name that will get 9 wins that we could actually get.

Yeah Stoops totally sucked when he was going to the Alamo and Holiday Bowls and was one play away in 3 games away from the Rose Bowl. Refs blowing the pick 6 off the foot, Stoops fault, Foles double pass, Stoops fault, Fans rushing early, Stoops fault

[tgrumpy2]

Need to put some perspective on RR and UA football program. RR now owns half of the winning conference records the UA program has had the last 19 years. He now has two. RR is the only coach since UA joined the Pac to improve his teams conference record by 4 games from one year to the next. RR has a P12 South title to his name.

UA has been that bad. UA football has been irrelevant for two decades now. It just has been. Having said that, RR, like or not has performed better than other UA coaches in last two decades. That's some perspective. Not on RR necessarily but with the UA program in general.

When UA joined the Pac in 1978 and for the first twenty years, UA was neck and neck with UCLA as having 2nd most conference winning season records. They were somewhat Relevant. From 1978-1998 only Washington and USC had more conference winning season records than UCLA or UA.

UA had More than Oregon, Stanford, ASU, Cal, Oregon st or Wazzu from 1978-1998

In last 19 years, UA has fallen behind ALL OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS with number of conference winning records. Since 1999, UA has 4 seasons with conference winning records. Except for Utah and Colorado who just recently joined the Pac, UA in the last 19 years have LESS winning conference records than every other PAC-10 school. Irrelevant.

But that is what has become UA football program. Some of you haven't been UA fans longer than 19 years, so easier to compare RR's performance with other coaches

19 or 20 years is a long enough resume to get some perspective of what UA football has become or allowed itself to become. It's become irrelevant and somehow in the last twenty years it still is, even with RR "propping up" the conference records. Maybe it's not all on the coaches.

I will not dispute your facts, but I do think some context is needed:

1. The other coach to have 2 conference winning seasons in the last 19 years was Mike Stoops. The only other coach we have had in that duration was John Mackovic. (I find it extremely conveniently select "19 years" as the benchmark... but it suits the agenda Scheer was trying to push when he tweeted that. We have also had 4 winning conference records in the last 10 years.

2. No coach has ever improved his team's conference record by 4 games from one year to the next because no coach has ever won 1 conference game in a season and had the opportunity to keep his job and have that chance.

3. No 'Southern Division' ever existed before Rodriguez, so he is the ONLY coach who has had that opportunity. Mike Stoops would have won one if it existed during his tenure, and I suspect Tomey would have had multiple (but am too lazy to look it up).

4. In years 3-6 of each coach's respective tenure, each coach had the following conference record/ winning %
- Mike Stoops 0.528 19-17
- Rich Rodriguez 0.432 16-21 (And that includes those 2 spectacular winning seasons)

So I guess the sorry state that the UA program is in is not reversible, and we must resign ourselves to our fate as a regular bottom dweller? I don't buy that.

But according to the argument above, short of a CFB version of Life Alert - "Our program has fallen and it cannot get up".

See Harvey, this is where things get stupid but its one of the things I find so entertaining here. No one said the state of the program was not reversible. If they did please post it for me. I read one person say that the state of the program wasn't as bad as you think and we can debate that all night. Another person said he expected 9 wins next year and that sure doesn't sound like someone saying the state of the program is not reversible. And I did look it up and Tomey may have won two in 13 years but maybe not because the schools keeping him out of the Rose Bowl those years was UCLA or USC.
I think Stoops would have won the South in 2009. His good teams in the years prior to that, the PAC10 was won by USC I don't care if people think the glass is half empty or half full, just please acknowledge that there is a decent amount of water in the glass.

[tgrumpy2]

The fact that some of our fans think that Stoops did "alright here" tells you everything you need to know about our homer pro mediocrity crowd.

You have got to be kidding me. I acknowledge that Stoops had a lot of personal issues. Mainly that he was a control freak and wouldn't let his defensive assistants coach. When his younger brother was the DC, the brother could tell him to back off and he would but after he left it started getting pretty shaky. Then he went through one nasty divorce and that didn't help.He also just wasn't very personable. Don't get me wrong, now, I think he needed to go but pull your head out of your butt and realize what he did while he was here. After Makevic single handedly destroyed the program in three years he pulled it out of the dumpster. washed it off, cleaned it up and made us more than respectable.

[azgreg]

[azcat49]

Extend? Why? I would give him 2 years at best to match Tate's time left

[Merkin]

Arizona didn’t have a player drafted last year, nor does it have a projected draftee this season.

Also on RichRod and his lack of recruiting and player development.

Sucks for Nick Wilson though, dude had so much potential. Can't blame RIchRod for his injuries though.

[PHXCATS]

Extend? Why? I would give him 2 years at best to match Tate's time left

Assurance in recruiting

[Pop McKale]

Yeah, sorry Greg...that’s the wrong angle here. Heeke already made the big decision by not firing him. Extend him why, exactly? To fend off...who? 2018 will be his reckoning one way or the other.

[OSUCat]

This might be stupid but USC went this route, and just something I'm wondering about.

If RR bombs the Bowl Game (very likely if Tate sits out), could you just fire RR without hiring a new coach? Make Yates the interim head coach and keep all other staff. Not sure if offense staff would leave just because RR was gone. So you basically keep the same staff and offensive and defensive schemes. Arizona could roughly save 3 mil from RR 2018 salary (minus Yates small pay bump and likely additional staff), save a bit more from not paying RR retention bonus, and the various other bonuses RR could make in 2018. Yates gets a try out and Arizona can make search for coaches throughout the year.

Although it still might be too much money to pay RR not to coach.

*I'm not endorsing Yates for Head Coach or anything. It could be any of the current staff.

[PHXCATS]

This might be stupid but USC went this route, and just something I'm wondering about.

If RR bombs the Bowl Game (very likely if Tate sits out), could you just fire RR without hiring a new coach? Make Yates the interim head coach and keep all other staff. Not sure if offense staff would leave just because RR was gone. So you basically keep the same staff and offensive and defensive schemes. Arizona could roughly save 3 mil from RR 2018 salary (minus Yates small pay bump and likely additional staff), save a bit more from not paying RR retention bonus, and the various other bonuses RR could make in 2018. Yates gets a try out and Arizona can make search for coaches throughout the year.

Although it still might be too much money to pay RR not to coach.

*I'm not endorsing Yates for Head Coach or anything. It could be any of the current staff.

That would be a train wreck and dumpster fire combined with relation to recruiting

[azgreg]

Yeah, sorry Greg...that’s the wrong angle here. Heeke already made the big decision by not firing him. Extend him why, exactly? To fend off...who? 2018 will be his reckoning one way or the other.

Last year was the first year Graham didn't get an extension and now he's gone. If RR doesn't get an extension and is mediocre next year I believe (along with many her) he's gone as well.

[Pop McKale]

Yeah, sorry Greg...that’s the wrong angle here. Heeke already made the big decision by not firing him. Extend him why, exactly? To fend off...who? 2018 will be his reckoning one way or the other.

Last year was the first year Graham didn't get an extension and now he's gone. If RR doesn't get an extension and is mediocre next year I believe (along with many her) he's gone as well.

Yep. Proverbial writing on the wall.

[ASUHATER!]

Yeah, sorry Greg...that’s the wrong angle here. Heeke already made the big decision by not firing him. Extend him why, exactly? To fend off...who? 2018 will be his reckoning one way or the other.

Last year was the first year Graham didn't get an extension and now he's gone. If RR doesn't get an extension and is mediocre next year I believe (along with many her) he's gone as well.

Anything less than 8 regular season wins should be a fireable offense.

[Pop McKale]

Yeah, sorry Greg...that’s the wrong angle here. Heeke already made the big decision by not firing him. Extend him why, exactly? To fend off...who? 2018 will be his reckoning one way or the other.

Last year was the first year Graham didn't get an extension and now he's gone. If RR doesn't get an extension and is mediocre next year I believe (along with many her) he's gone as well.

Anything less than 8 regular season wins should be a fireable offense.

Just me, but I’d qualify it such that one of the 8 had to be ASU.

[azcat49]

Extend? Why? I would give him 2 years at best to match Tate's time left

Assurance in recruiting

Wins will take care of that. Keep rolling it 1 year at a time. If he extends RR he is a fool. Would be the worst business decision ever. He earned one more year on his contract and that is it

[PHXCATS]

Extend? Why? I would give him 2 years at best to match Tate's time left

Assurance in recruiting

Wins will take care of that. Keep rolling it 1 year at a time. If he extends RR he is a fool. Would be the worst business decision ever. He earned one more year on his contract and that is it

You cannot recruit if you do not have a long term contract. Can't sacrifice the future to prove a point

[ASUHATER!]

Extend? Why? I would give him 2 years at best to match Tate's time left

Assurance in recruiting

Wins will take care of that. Keep rolling it 1 year at a time. If he extends RR he is a fool. Would be the worst business decision ever. He earned one more year on his contract and that is it

You cannot recruit if you do not have a long term contract. Can't sacrifice the future to prove a point

The absolute epitome of sacrificing the future is allowing RR to stay our head coach.

[PHXCATS]

Yet you still wont give one name.

Man up and give one

[azcat49]

That is BS. He has Tate and he would have 3 years on his contract Which is long enough. His class Last year was under more duress and he got some players.

Just no reason to lock up 15M with attendance in the tank and just as much uncertainty as there is certainty

[Merkin]

You cannot recruit if you do not have a long term contract. Can't sacrifice the future to prove a point

That is true for the most part if you really love a coach.

But a lot of players love the schools, even here in Arizona. How many kids have said "I want to be a Wildcat!", although normally to elite teams like Notre Dame, USC, tOSU, Bama, Texas, LSU and so on want to play for the school, not the coach.

Secondly, coaches get fired with long term contracts. Toad Graham had 3 years left at $4M per! This after a successful season.

Some kids just want a Div I offer, period. Plenty of those lately. BJ Denker, not a single offer out of high school. Scooby "two-star" is legend. Those fab freshman we got on defense, go check out their offer lists. Mostly Arizona is fighting against mid-majors. You want to ride in a bus or charter a plane? Colin Schooler, very bright true frosh star, had offers from Buffalo, Charleston Southern, Fresno St, Nevada, New Mexico, San Jose state., AND Arizona.

Most certainly the position coach recruiters maintain a high level personal contact with the recruit, not so much the head coach.

[PHXCATS]

That is BS. He has Tate and he would have 3 years on his contract Which is long enough. His class Last year was under more duress and he got some players.

Just no reason to lock up 15M with attendance in the tank and just as much uncertainty as there is certainty

He had a long term contract

[PHXCATS]

You cannot recruit if you do not have a long term contract. Can't sacrifice the future to prove a point

That is true for the most part if you really love a coach.

But a lot of players love the schools, even here in Arizona. How many kids have said "I want to be a Wildcat!", although normally to elite teams like Notre Dame, USC, tOSU, Bama, Texas, LSU and so on want to play for the school, not the coach.

Secondly, coaches get fired with long term contracts. Toad Graham had 3 years left at $4M per! This after a successful season.

Some kids just want a Div I offer, period. Plenty of those lately. BJ Denker, not a single offer out of high school. Scooby "two-star" is legend. Those fab freshman we got on defense, go check out their offer lists. Mostly Arizona is fighting against mid-majors. You want to ride in a bus or charter a plane? Colin Schooler, very bright true frosh star, had offers from Buffalo, Charleston Southern, Fresno St, Nevada, New Mexico, San Jose state., AND Arizona.

Most certainly the position coach recruiters maintain a high level personal contact with the recruit, not so much the head coach.

The position coaches don't stay usually when the head guy is gone.

The best play is to extend but work out exits favorable for Arizona on a buyout

[azcat49]

No extension or 1 year at best. If RR gets pissed and leaves, great. If it motivates him, great. If he looks ast others schools prior to that bonus locking in, can him immediately. All win for us as it sdhoukd be. He earned one more year, that's it.

Looks Like an email to uofaad@edu is warrented so Heeke doesn't make as huge mistake

[OSUCat]

The position coaches don't stay usually when the head guy is gone.

The best play is to extend but work out exits favorable for Arizona on a buyout

In the scenario I listed above, The position coaches wouldn't leave.

I find it crazy that you are suggesting that RR get an extension after what happened at ASU. RR bomb that game hard.

[PHXCATS]

I don't like it but think it's necessary. Still say 9 wins or the axe next year.

[Harvey Specter]

Need to put some perspective on RR and UA football program. RR now owns half of the winning conference records the UA program has had the last 19 years. He now has two. RR is the only coach since UA joined the Pac to improve his teams conference record by 4 games from one year to the next. RR has a P12 South title to his name.

UA has been that bad. UA football has been irrelevant for two decades now. It just has been. Having said that, RR, like or not has performed better than other UA coaches in last two decades. That's some perspective. Not on RR necessarily but with the UA program in general.

When UA joined the Pac in 1978 and for the first twenty years, UA was neck and neck with UCLA as having 2nd most conference winning season records. They were somewhat Relevant. From 1978-1998 only Washington and USC had more conference winning season records than UCLA or UA.

UA had More than Oregon, Stanford, ASU, Cal, Oregon st or Wazzu from 1978-1998

In last 19 years, UA has fallen behind ALL OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS with number of conference winning records. Since 1999, UA has 4 seasons with conference winning records. Except for Utah and Colorado who just recently joined the Pac, UA in the last 19 years have LESS winning conference records than every other PAC-10 school. Irrelevant.

But that is what has become UA football program. Some of you haven't been UA fans longer than 19 years, so easier to compare RR's performance with other coaches

19 or 20 years is a long enough resume to get some perspective of what UA football has become or allowed itself to become. It's become irrelevant and somehow in the last twenty years it still is, even with RR "propping up" the conference records. Maybe it's not all on the coaches.

I will not dispute your facts, but I do think some context is needed:

1. The other coach to have 2 conference winning seasons in the last 19 years was Mike Stoops. The only other coach we have had in that duration was John Mackovic. (I find it extremely conveniently select "19 years" as the benchmark... but it suits the agenda Scheer was trying to push when he tweeted that. We have also had 4 winning conference records in the last 10 years.

2. No coach has ever improved his team's conference record by 4 games from one year to the next because no coach has ever won 1 conference game in a season and had the opportunity to keep his job and have that chance.

3. No 'Southern Division' ever existed before Rodriguez, so he is the ONLY coach who has had that opportunity. Mike Stoops would have won one if it existed during his tenure, and I suspect Tomey would have had multiple (but am too lazy to look it up).

4. In years 3-6 of each coach's respective tenure, each coach had the following conference record/ winning %
- Mike Stoops 0.528 19-17
- Rich Rodriguez 0.432 16-21 (And that includes those 2 spectacular winning seasons)

So I guess the sorry state that the UA program is in is not reversible, and we must resign ourselves to our fate as a regular bottom dweller? I don't buy that.

But according to the argument above, short of a CFB version of Life Alert - "Our program has fallen and it cannot get up".

OK,

Make it since since 1995 then and the 1st 17 years and last 22 years and the facts remain the same. We can pull in some of Tomey. And if you read my point, it's more about the program than the coach.

Now you're being selective. Stoops had the chance to improve a team from a previous 1 conference win season. Didn't improve it by 4 the next year. Both Tomey and Stoops had 2 conference win seasons to improve on. neither improved it by 4 the next season. Stoops twice. Best he did was 2 win improvement.

Throw out RR's South Title. Makes my point even more amplified.

My point is, 22 years now with your critique and UA still has more losing conference records than the rest of the "original" pac-10 in last 22 years. Utah recently joined and already has 3. I'm comparing to rest of the Pac-12. Not coaches. It's a reality. Only performance changes that.

first 17 years in the pac, and UA was competing. Last 22, rarely. I don't like it. But it is what it is.

Re your overall point regarding our program's woes: We have had 3 shitty hires over 17 years... but you say coaching is not our problem? Seems like a circular argument to me, so I will back off this one.'

Stoops had a couple 2 win seasons in his first 2 years (both at Arizona, and head coaching) when the program was a complete dumpster fire (the worst position it has EVER been in). He won at least 4 in every subsequent year, save for his last season in which the team was 0-4 in Conference play when he was let go mid-season.

So.. Rich Rod is the only coach past his first couple years who survived winning 2 PAC-12 games and he won 1. That's great he improved by 4. I should have flunked one semester in college so everything from there would have looked great

[TheBuffet]

As long a Tate is here Rich Rod should be here too. He recruited him, he believed in him at QB when no one else did, he coached him up and Tate turned another 3-9 season (maybe worse) into 7-5 so far. There's no other coach we could hire that could coach Tate as well as Rich Rod. With the good comes the bad, Rich Rod is probably the best offensive coach we've ever had but he recruits like crap, ignores special teams and defense is not a priority.

[Harvey Specter]

The fact that some of our fans think that Stoops did "alright here" tells you everything you need to know about our homer pro mediocrity crowd.

I think he did a great job over his first 5 years here, given the state when he arrived.

He plateaued while dealing with personal turmoil... and then he sucked.

[Harvey Specter]

This might be stupid but USC went this route, and just something I'm wondering about.

If RR bombs the Bowl Game (very likely if Tate sits out), could you just fire RR without hiring a new coach? Make Yates the interim head coach and keep all other staff. Not sure if offense staff would leave just because RR was gone. So you basically keep the same staff and offensive and defensive schemes. Arizona could roughly save 3 mil from RR 2018 salary (minus Yates small pay bump and likely additional staff), save a bit more from not paying RR retention bonus, and the various other bonuses RR could make in 2018. Yates gets a try out and Arizona can make search for coaches throughout the year.

Although it still might be too much money to pay RR not to coach.

*I'm not endorsing Yates for Head Coach or anything. It could be any of the current staff.

That would be a train wreck and dumpster fire combined with relation to recruiting

So what you are saying is we would maintain the status quo... so long as we get an interim guy who continues to keep the walkon program a priority.

[Harvey Specter]

Extend? Why? I would give him 2 years at best to match Tate's time left

Assurance in recruiting

Wins will take care of that. Keep rolling it 1 year at a time. If he extends RR he is a fool. Would be the worst business decision ever. He earned one more year on his contract and that is it

You cannot recruit if you do not have a long term contract. Can't sacrifice the future to prove a point

It seems that a disproportionate number of the kids we get come here largely because we are their only BCS Conference level offer.

We'll keep getting them.

Besides.. you suggesting that we sign up to another $5M to jump from 11th to maybe 9th in PAC-12 recruiting? Not a good ROI relationship...

[OSUCat]

I don't like it but think it's necessary. Still say 9 wins or the axe next year.

I understand what your saying.

[PHXCATS]

The buyout is what is important. Extend but keep buyout as is or only a little higher for the next year. That's the right play.

Will help in recruiting and won t hurt the long term plans if RR doesn't improve


Really nervous seeing Stoops name and remembering his history with some other rumors going around right now

[jimson]

Well, I don't know how old the "brothers hate RR" are, but you can bet they would have wanted Tomey fired.
Honestly I don't care much whether they keep RR or not, but I sure as hell don't want Yates as HC.
If you want to promote an assistant, promote one who bleeds red and blue.

[Harvey Specter]

The buyout is what is important. Extend but keep buyout as is or only a little higher for the next year. That's the right play.

Will help in recruiting and won t hurt the long term plans if RR doesn't improve


Really nervous seeing Stoops name and remembering his history with some other rumors going around right now

I agree with that... it would be purely a symbolic gesture, and we'd lose nothing by doing it.

Considering the degree to which coaches' agents take AD's to the woodshed whenever negotiating a contract, I would be shocked if we could get that done. But if we can, have at it.

Regardless... firing RR after next season would be more expensive than if we fired him before mid-January. I am pretty sure the retention $$$ we surrender next year is more expensive than 1 year of his contract.

[RazorsEdgeAZ]

Damn Harvey... Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote?

I didn't write or claim that coaching is not "our" problem as you responded. What I wrote is... "Maybe it's not all on the coaches". As in just not the coaches responsible for the poor performance of the UA program.

Maybe UA can't lure or keep good coaches. Just four years ago the UA football staff was working out of McKale. It's hard to recruit consistently and with depth to Tucson. History shows that. UA doesn't have booster depth with deep pockets. AZ Stadium aside from NEZ is lacking compared to other P12 schools. UA football doesn't have a deep tradition nor is it a brand name or blue blood football program. Tucson is a small TV market. We're really late to the party to have an indoor practice facility. Really? We're in the Desert with 100+ temps. etc. etc. Maybe we have shitty AD's that hired "3 shitty hires over 17 years" as you claimed.

UA hasn't kept up with the rest of the P12. Wazzu, Oregon st, Cal and that shitty ASU school have more conference winning records than UA in the last 20 years. Every school has. Most of us hate and claim ASU a dump of a football program and their AD is nuts in the head to think they can compete consistently at a high level in the P12. Do UA fans think it's nuts for UA to have similar nutty fantasy expectations? Meaning, should UA recognize who they are like many think ASU should be doing and not fantasize what their program is and get real with expectations? Realistic expectations for their program. That dump ASU has twice as many winning conference records than UA in last 20 years (and they had Lisa Love and Steve Patterson for AD's).

It SUCKS. But it's a reality. I've been a UA fan for 50 years. Long enough to realize (and painfully know) UA will only have short periodic success with it's football program. Winning conference records runs every once in awhile. It SUCKS, But it's a reality.

Many think we should get a young and on the rise coach. Great, yet we know that's just for awhile if they succeed then it's on to a bigger, better gig. Rinse and repeat. That's UA football program. It SUCKS, but it's a reality.

The context is RR hasn't done that bad compared to what UA history has shown us. I'm not saying great (or good), but the bar has been so low for a long time. Most of us didn't think RR could get UA to a bowl this year. He did and did even losing a non-con game. He went from 1-8 conference to 5-4. Bet you didn't have high hopes before the season he could do that. Maybe you would have some disbelief it was possible. You want to diminish the 4 game improvement? Great, no problem. But it's a fact that UA has a winning conference record this year.

Dick Tomey averaged wining conference record once every two years. RR average, once every three years. Stoops once every 3.75 years. UA average since joining the PAC, once every 2.4 years. The UA average last 23 years, once every 5.75 years.

More context.

[PHXCATS]

The real reason why RR will be here in 2018 and why he will get a one year extension is Heeke knows and expects a better year next year and that he can t complete with the other openings this year in addition to the fact no one can name one coach that would come here that would do better than RR right away.

Firing someone or calling for the firing of someone without a plan or without being able to bring someone in better is complete ignorance.

[Harvey Specter]

The real reason why RR will be here in 2018 and why he will get a one year extension is Heeke knows and expects a better year next year and that he can t complete with the other openings this year in addition to the fact no one can name one coach that would come here that would do better than RR right away.

Firing someone or calling for the firing of someone without a plan or without being able to bring someone in better is complete ignorance.

And playing the "I know who will come here without even trying", or wanting a guaranteed name of a replacement without engaging in a search, is complete arrogance.

I think we would have a shot at any coach ASU would... we will see who they land. I believe either Sumlin or Miles are possibilities. Neither is likely to get an elite job, and we should be competitive with any non-elite BCS program for a coach.

Pretending that winning 9 games next season is a foregone conclusion 'because I see a world where we possibly could'? That's also delusional.

[btfd16]

The real reason why RR will be here in 2018 and why he will get a one year extension is Heeke knows and expects a better year next year and that he can t complete with the other openings this year in addition to the fact no one can name one coach that would come here that would do better than RR right away.

Firing someone or calling for the firing of someone without a plan or without being able to bring someone in better is complete ignorance.

And playing the "I know who will come here without even trying", or wanting a guaranteed name of a replacement without engaging in a search, is complete arrogance.

I think we would have a shot at any coach ASU would... we will see who they land. I believe either Sumlin or Miles are possibilities. Neither is likely to get an elite job, and we should be competitive with any non-elite BCS program for a coach.

Pretending that winning 9 games next season is a foregone conclusion 'because I see a world where we possibly could'? That's also delusional.

we could get Greg Schiano! lol

[cordera89]

So what happen if RR succeed even further in the win/lose?

Or what happen if RR keep improving the team further on?

It would be the funniest thing to what I'm reading on here. I wonder if A lot of yawl want to regret it if those two things happen.

Plus It will be stupid and arrogance on heeke part to not give RR and staff an extension after a turnaround season.

If Heeke chase the Rabbit down the rabbit hole. Then he a fool for going that route. If he believe Arizona can match 10 or more win on regular basic? He an idiot. If he believe Arizona can match top 10 recruiting class on regular basic? Then he spoil. If he believe Arizona can match winning the South or Conference title on regular basic? Unrealistic.

What he should be focusing on is being consistent winning football program. 7-8 win, going to bowl game each & every year. Building off those success. Is that so hard to ask for.

[Merkin]

So what happen if RR succeed even further in the win/lose?

Or what happen if RR keep improving the team further on?

It would be the funniest thing to what I'm reading on here. I wonder if A lot of yawl want to regret it if those two things happen.

Plus It will be stupid and arrogance on heeke part to not give RR and staff an extension after a turnaround season.

If Heeke chase the Rabbit down the rabbit hole. Then he a fool for going that route. If he believe Arizona can match 10 or more win on regular basic? He an idiot. If he believe Arizona can match top 10 recruiting class on regular basic? Then he spoil. If he believe Arizona can match winning the South or Conference title on regular basic? Unrealistic.

What he should be focusing on is being consistent winning football program. 7-8 win, going to bowl game each & every year. Building off those success. Is that so hard to ask for.

Do you see what Mike Leach is doing with Wazzu? 9 wins, then 8, then 9 or 10 this season.

UA > WSU in terms of facilities, weather, coeds, education, diversity and so on.

Can't think of any area where Wazzu football is better than Arizona football, outside of tradition.

[chiefzona]

So what happen if RR succeed even further in the win/lose?

Or what happen if RR keep improving the team further on?

It would be the funniest thing to what I'm reading on here. I wonder if A lot of yawl want to regret it if those two things happen.

Plus It will be stupid and arrogance on heeke part to not give RR and staff an extension after a turnaround season.

If Heeke chase the Rabbit down the rabbit hole. Then he a fool for going that route. If he believe Arizona can match 10 or more win on regular basic? He an idiot. If he believe Arizona can match top 10 recruiting class on regular basic? Then he spoil. If he believe Arizona can match winning the South or Conference title on regular basic? Unrealistic.

What he should be focusing on is being consistent winning football program. 7-8 win, going to bowl game each & every year. Building off those success. Is that so hard to ask for.

Do you see what Mike Leach is doing with Wazzu? 9 wins, then 8, then 9 or 10 this season.

UA > WSU in terms of facilities, weather, coeds, education, diversity and so on.

Can't think of any area where Wazzu football is better than Arizona football, outside of tradition.

Bingo. Nailed it.

[CalStateTempe]

I want les miles.