Conference Realignment

[PHXCATS]

Not sure how reliable but

[CalStateTempe]

I’m down with keeping unc out of the big

[RondaeShimmy]

Not sure how reliable but

Yeah I posted that and deleted the post because he covers swimming

[CalStateTempe]

I’d this happens, Duke to b12 and arizona to b12…

Make it happen!

[PHXCATS]

Not sure how reliable but

Yeah I posted that and deleted the post because he covers swimming

Can still have sources in athletic departments

[RondaeShimmy]

The ACC makes no sense

[AzCatFan2]

I can understand these schools desire to get into the SEC. But do they add enough to warrant an invite? The SEC already has a school in Florida and a school in South Carolina. The SEC already dominates the east coast time slots, and now with Texas and Oklahoma, will have a big chunk of the Central time zone covered as well. There are are only so many marquee games you can schedule during your best time slots, and Clemson, et. at. will be fighting Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and OU plus TX for time slots the SEC doesn't need big names to fill. The SEC already has plenty of big names. Which is why it makes no sense for ESPN to try and fight to get these schools out of their ACC contract.

[PHXCATS]

I took it as espn knows how sweet a deal they have with the ACC and is willing to negotiate to try to keep those schools in a sweetheart deal for them

[AzCatFan2]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU. Not to mention, if the SEC absorbs these schools that are already in their backyard, it could bloat the conference. Think of it as an arms race. One way to win is to get your opponent to outspend its capacity. Clemson and FSU are used to playing premium games at premium time slots, on premium networks. But again, how many SEC games can have prime real estate on ABC and ESPN when the conference already has several big name schools like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma?

[RondaeShimmy]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU. Not to mention, if the SEC absorbs these schools that are already in their backyard, it could bloat the conference. Think of it as an arms race. One way to win is to get your opponent to outspend its capacity. Clemson and FSU are used to playing premium games at premium time slots, on premium networks. But again, how many SEC games can have prime real estate on ABC and ESPN when the conference already has several big name schools like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma?

No it's to get even better football schools in the conference.

Those schools don't even qualify to be let in the B1G because they don't need the academic requirements.

Bigger football programs = more, larger, rabid fan bases = more eyeballs watching

[gatewood17]

I am a new poster but have been following very intently here and in other national media. Didn't the Pac-12 just announce that they would be looking into a new media deal? I mean the quicker that happens, the quicker they may be able to lock the teams in the PAC 12 into the conference similar to the ACC? That makes me nervous. I am great if the PAC 12 could poach some of the better teams in the big12 but if that doesn't work we are really screwed because why would the big12 want to work with pac-12 teams at that point? I understand survival is the goal but I fear that both leagues and schools would be at odds with each other.

[AzCatFan2]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU. Not to mention, if the SEC absorbs these schools that are already in their backyard, it could bloat the conference. Think of it as an arms race. One way to win is to get your opponent to outspend its capacity. Clemson and FSU are used to playing premium games at premium time slots, on premium networks. But again, how many SEC games can have prime real estate on ABC and ESPN when the conference already has several big name schools like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma?

No it's to get even better football schools in the conference.

Those schools don't even qualify to be let in the B1G because they don't need the academic requirements.

Bigger football programs = more, larger, rabid fan bases = more eyeballs watching

At some point, the law of diminishing returns will kick in. It's more of the same the SEC already dominates, which is football in the South. Say you have a slate of games in the SEC that includes Florida versus Clemson, FSU versus TTech, Oklahoma versus Alabama, and LSU versus North Carolina, which gets top billing? Does the SEC schedule some of these games against each other and siphon off some of the potential eyeballs from each game? And what happens to games that might before have some marginal interest this same week, like Tennessee versus Arkansas? Does that get moved from ESPNU and is now on the SEC Network, which would mean lower viewership for this game?

Questions that nobody knows the answer to, especially since conferences have never been this large before. But something that I would think the bean counters would take into consideration when it comes to adding new schools that already reside in the region you are strongest. You run the risk of saturating the market and diminishing your returns.

[CalStateTempe]

The way I see it is this, if you think there is a chance that Arizona/Phx market might get an invite to the big 10 or the SEC, when those conferences go to 24 then maybe sticking it out with the PAC makes sense.

However if it is all about football, and dollars, and market share, and if it is a slim to none chance that Arizona goes to one of the super conferences, and I think the decision at this moment becomes very clear

Arizona to big 12

[dovecanyoncat]

I am a new poster but have been following very intently here and in other national media. Didn't the Pac-12 just announce that they would be looking into a new media deal? I mean the quicker that happens, the quicker they may be able to lock the teams in the PAC 12 into the conference similar to the ACC? That makes me nervous. I am great if the PAC 12 could poach some of the better teams in the big12 but if that doesn't work we are really screwed because why would the big12 want to work with pac-12 teams at that point? I understand survival is the goal but I fear that both leagues and schools would be at odds with each other.

Welcome to the board. One hopes you're into self-abuse. It helps pass the time as a Pac-12/Cat fan.

[gatewood17]

I am 46 and have had football season tix since 16. Hell yeah I am a glutton for punishment but no more than all of us. I live in NC now but I stay up till 2 am to watch the cats. No matter what. I know we won't win a NC in football any time soon with all of this going on but damn, I am so proud to be a Wildcat and I want us to hit whatever ceiling there is for us. I think, right now, that's what we all want, including basketball and all our sports. BTFD.

[PHXCATS]

I am 46 and have had football season tix since 16. Hell yeah I am a glutton for punishment but no more than all of us. I live in NC now but I stay up till 2 am to watch the cats. No matter what. I know we won't win a NC in football any time soon with all of this going on but damn, I am so proud to be a Wildcat and I want us to hit whatever ceiling there is for us. I think, right now, that's what we all want, including basketball and all our sports. BTFD.

Good man

[GlobalCat]

I’d this happens, Duke to b12 and arizona to b12…

Make it happen!

I'd love to see Duke move to a non-ESPN affiliated network just to end their perpetual (fill in the crass word here).

[GlobalCat]

Open question: Why aren't we hearing about Apple, Netflix, or Amazon entering the conversation? Each of them have smaller agreements in place with the professional leagues. Why couldn't they step in as players, which in turn gives international distribution opportunities and greater scheduling flexibility non-tied to fixed broadcast schedules?

[RondaeShimmy]

Open question: Why aren't we hearing about Apple, Netflix, or Amazon entering the conversation? Each of them have smaller agreements in place with the professional leagues. Why couldn't they step in as players, which in turn gives international distribution opportunities and greater scheduling flexibility non-tied to fixed broadcast schedules?

Nobody outside the US cares about these sports

A whole reason the PAC 12 was such a disaster lately is because they tried to expand into China

[EastCoastCat]

Open question: Why aren't we hearing about Apple, Netflix, or Amazon entering the conversation? Each of them have smaller agreements in place with the professional leagues. Why couldn't they step in as players, which in turn gives international distribution opportunities and greater scheduling flexibility non-tied to fixed broadcast schedules?

Nobody outside the US cares about these sports

A whole reason the PAC 12 was such a disaster lately is because they tried to expand into China

This. It's why those companies have become quasi TV/Movie Studios.

[GlobalCat]

The Pac12 was a disaster for more than just a misguided China expansion... and there are plenty of non-US fans that would love to watch games (expats, foreign stationed, Estonian families, etc.) that would appreciated streaming options (albeit likely requiring a VPN connection).

To the bigger point, why couldn't a streaming service step in? At this point of time, their access to national households is on par if not better than cable networks.

[EastCoastCat]

I blame all of this on Chicat's hiatus...

[GlobalCat]

This. It's why those companies have become quasi TV/Movie Studios.

They are becoming quasi TV/Movie studies because content creation and access to libraries is king. If you don't own it, you can't stream it.

If Amazon can spent $550mm for a lord of the rings sequel with a limited run period, I struggle to see why a 3/4 of a year sports network wouldn't have equal opportunity to attract a similar count of viewers at a similar price point.

[PHXCATS]

Open question: Why aren't we hearing about Apple, Netflix, or Amazon entering the conversation? Each of them have smaller agreements in place with the professional leagues. Why couldn't they step in as players, which in turn gives international distribution opportunities and greater scheduling flexibility non-tied to fixed broadcast schedules?

My understanding is that they are an option but the 30 day window that was just opened is only for the PAC-12 to work with Fox and espn. Fox is not expected to be interested in the PAC-10 without USC and UCLA. After the 30 day window we can hear from Apple and Amazon etc as it relates to the existing PAC-10 schools

[GlobalCat]

Open question: Why aren't we hearing about Apple, Netflix, or Amazon entering the conversation? Each of them have smaller agreements in place with the professional leagues. Why couldn't they step in as players, which in turn gives international distribution opportunities and greater scheduling flexibility non-tied to fixed broadcast schedules?

My understanding is that they are an option but the 30 day window that was just opened is only for the PAC-12 to work with Fox and espn. Fox is not expected to be interested in the PAC-10 without USC and UCLA. After the 30 day window we can hear from Apple and Amazon etc as it relates to the existing PAC-10 schools

You are correct!

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... o-big-ten/

"The Pac-12 is expected to enter into an exclusive 30-day negotiating window with current rightsholders Fox and ESPN before entertaining offers from other bidders."

So if Fox Sports bails (fuck 'em) and ESPN is the only party left negotiating, the Pac-10 validate (via back channels) the threat of the streamers and/or CBS sports stepping in as leverage. So that's good news.

[dovecanyoncat]

I blame all of this on Chicat's hiatus...

HE'S A BAD, BAD FAN!!!!

[Merkin]

I blame all of this on Chicat's hiatus...

HE'S A BAD, BAD FAN!!!!

What do you expect? He likes the Yankees.

[AzCatFan2]

CBS has their own Streaming Network in Paramount Plus, as well as a cable sports network. But I'm not sure CBS has the money or desire to go it alone on college sports, especially if it's the PAC, without the LA schools, carrying the banner. But if Amazon or Apple want in, an agreement might yet be reached. Depends on the money.

Another factor in this is the BIG12 TV rights expire in 2025. Not that far away. The PAC could have the alliance with the ACC short term, and then the PAC and BIG12 join up for joint TV rights with CBS and Apple/Amazon starting in 2026. That's something that might be sustainable, especially if the conferences agree to OOC games in all sports.

The question to be answered is, does a streaming service that has deep pockets like Amazon or Apple want in on college sports? And if yes, are they willing to pay enough to make it worth our while?

[dovecanyoncat]

I blame all of this on Chicat's hiatus...

HE'S A BAD, BAD FAN!!!!

What do you expect? He likes the Yankees.

I tell myself he's only pretending to be a Yankees fan just to troll us.

[SabinoDrifter]

CBS has their own Streaming Network in Paramount Plus, as well as a cable sports network. But I'm not sure CBS has the money or desire to go it alone on college sports, especially if it's the PAC, without the LA schools, carrying the banner. But if Amazon or Apple want in, an agreement might yet be reached. Depends on the money.

Another factor in this is the BIG12 TV rights expire in 2025. Not that far away. The PAC could have the alliance with the ACC short term, and then the PAC and BIG12 join up for joint TV rights with CBS and Apple/Amazon starting in 2026. That's something that might be sustainable, especially if the conferences agree to OOC games in all sports.

The question to be answered is, does a streaming service that has deep pockets like Amazon or Apple want in on college sports? And if yes, are they willing to pay enough to make it worth our while?

I don't think so with the investments Amazon already has made with the NFL and the rumor that Apple will get a piece of the action soon, as well.

[RichardCranium]

Open question: Why aren't we hearing about Apple, Netflix, or Amazon entering the conversation? Each of them have smaller agreements in place with the professional leagues. Why couldn't they step in as players, which in turn gives international distribution opportunities and greater scheduling flexibility non-tied to fixed broadcast schedules?

Nobody outside the US cares about these sports

I am.

A whole reason the PAC 12 was such a disaster lately is because they tried to expand into China

The mistake was going after China first.

Australia would suck it up.

As would Mexico. Why aren't we pushing into Mexico?

[AzCatFan2]

CBS has their own Streaming Network in Paramount Plus, as well as a cable sports network. But I'm not sure CBS has the money or desire to go it alone on college sports, especially if it's the PAC, without the LA schools, carrying the banner. But if Amazon or Apple want in, an agreement might yet be reached. Depends on the money.

Another factor in this is the BIG12 TV rights expire in 2025. Not that far away. The PAC could have the alliance with the ACC short term, and then the PAC and BIG12 join up for joint TV rights with CBS and Apple/Amazon starting in 2026. That's something that might be sustainable, especially if the conferences agree to OOC games in all sports.

The question to be answered is, does a streaming service that has deep pockets like Amazon or Apple want in on college sports? And if yes, are they willing to pay enough to make it worth our while?

I don't think so with the investments Amazon already has made with the NFL and the rumor that Apple will get a piece of the action soon, as well.

Maybe. But Amazon and Apple have deep pockets. And an investment in college football can be a protection of their NFL investment. College football and NFL compete for eyeballs, and at the same time, college feeds the NFL players. And many college fans follow their favorite players when they go pro.

Fox entered the football market with NFL only. But now, they are a top player for college sports. Again, protecting their investment.

[AZCatGirl]

What's taking ABOR so long to schedule meetings?

[PHXCATS]

What's taking ABOR so long to schedule meetings?

Why would they need to meet?

[AZCatGirl]

What's taking ABOR so long to schedule meetings?

Why would they need to meet?

Don't they need to meet to approve both schools moving to the Big 12?

[PHXCATS]

What's taking ABOR so long to schedule meetings?

Why would they need to meet?

Don't they need to meet to approve both schools moving to the Big 12?

When did UA Athletics say they want to move to the Big 12

[AZCatGirl]

When did UA Athletics say they want to move to the Big 12

They haven't. But I'm surprised they don't want to talk about it like Colorado's board of regents is.

[CatsbyAZ]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU.

What exactly does AAU have to do with all of this?

[84Cat]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU.

What exactly does AAU have to do with all of this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associati ... iversities

[PHXCATS]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU.

What exactly does AAU have to do with all of this?

Every Big Ten school is an AAU member except Nebraska and the rest of the Big Ten is pissed at Nebraska for no longer being a member

asu will never be a Big Ten member

Only exception for the Big Ten would be Notre Dame (who is a great academic school just never saw the need to join aau)

[pc in NM]

The only reason the SEC would take a school like FSU or Clemson is to keep them out of the BIG 10. But not sure either are BIG 10 cultural fits, as neither school is AAU.

What exactly does AAU have to do with all of this?

Every Big Ten school is an AAU member except Nebraska and the rest of the Big Ten is pissed at Nebraska for no longer being a member

asu will never be a Big Ten member

Only exception for the Big Ten would be Notre Dame (who is a great academic school just never saw the need to join aau)

It's not about merely the quality of the academics.

AAU membership (65 members) is by invitation only, and requires approval by 75% of the current membership. The "Association of American Universities" (AAU) is an organization of American research universities devoted to maintaining a strong system of academic research and education.

The association ranks its members using four criteria: research spending, the percentage of faculty who are members of the National Academies, faculty awards, and citations. All 63 U.S. members of the AAU are also classified as Highest Research Activity (R1) Universities by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education.

There are 146 institutions that are classified as "R1: Doctoral Universities – Very high research activity" in the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education as of the 2021 update. These universities have a very high level of both research activity and per capita in such research activity, using aggregate data to determine both measurements. In other words, these institutions provide a lot of resources for research and have a lot of people conducting research at their respective institution. These two classifications can be seen as the aggregate supply and aggregate demand of research, respectively.

Notre Dame is NOT designated as a "R1: Doctoral Universities – Very high research activity", and this is the likely reason Notre Dame is not, and likely could not, become an AAU Member. Currently, Nebraska is NOT designated as a "R1: Doctoral Universities – Very high research activity" either.

[RondaeShimmy]

Nebraska was kicked out of AAU status before actually joining the Big Ten, but already having been accepted into the conference

The Big Ten presidents were of course livid

https://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/post/_ ... aau-status

[AzCatFan2]

The BIG 10 is willing to make a Notre Dame exception because they are Notre Dame. Would they make the same exceptions for Clemson and FSU? Judging by the Nebraska reaction, the answer is not today. But wave millions of dollars in front of them, and maybe the BIG 10 reconsiders?

While not all PAC-12 schools are AAU, we are all Research 1 schools. It's kept schools like SDSU, UNLV, and Boise St from even being considered. Does that change with the LA schools leaving? Difficult to say, but I think SDSU might be poised to grow in terms of athletics, especially if they get a PAC invite. Gives us a foothold in the S. Cal market again, and SDSU will have a new stadium, and could tell recruits they can play in it, and travel 6 hours to Arizona and 8 hours to N. Cal instead of playing in front of thousands of transplanted Ohio State fans in a 100 year old stadium, and turn around and have to play in Bloomington, IN.

But again, adding SDSU and UNLV to capture the Vegas market would require an agreement to reduce PAC academic requirements. Guess we might see just how important academics are to a school like CAL, who might have to lower their conference academic standards or face even more dire consequences.

[azgreg]

[RondaeShimmy]

Notre Dame famously wants Stanford as their partner if they go to the B1G

There's your value pick

[UAEebs86]

I know it will never happen, but to get invited to the Big Ten with ASU getting left out would be glorious.

[Merkin]

I know it will never happen, but to get invited to the Big Ten with ASU getting left out would be glorious.

It would be, although the UA football team would never recover. Look at the once proud Nebraska program.

[azcat49]

https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-p ... ner-george

Said the AD: “George is great. But he had one job — keep USC in the fold.”

Lots of good stuff in this article I thought. I think George would have been a good commissioner but he really messed up with voting down the expansion of the playoffs

[CatsbyAZ]

It's not about merely the quality of the academics.

AAU membership (65 members) is by invitation only, and requires approval by 75% of the current membership. The "Association of American Universities" (AAU) is an organization of American research universities devoted to maintaining a strong system of academic research and education.

But at what point are we fooling ourselves to believe these conferences want to bother with academics too when all the power moves are prompted by money grabs for media markets? College sports and its conference alliances are driven purely by dollars and viewerships, not Northwestern's top rated school of journalism. Let's stop fooling ourselves. If an Arizona Vs Grand Canyon U home and home fills the arenas and turns on more TVs screens than Arizona Vs Dartmouth then GCU's academics instantly turn into a back burner matter.

[UAEebs86]

^^^^^ agree CatsbyAZ

Major college sports being talked about as an academic endeavor vs. the actual cash grab it is is ridiculous.

Never got all this AAU/Tier 1 bullshit since big money took over.