Conference Realignment

[azgreg]

[AzCatFan2]

Once ORWA officially went B1G, we were out of options. So were Utah and ASu.

Had ORWA stayed, the PAC could've survived at least another contract cycle. Maybe more? But without them and the LA schools? Time to bail.

Now yes, we'll never get into the SEC or B1G, but a NFL model with just 2 super conferences is now also highly unlikely. ESPN is not going to pay an SEC premium for any west coast division without both the LA schools nor ORWA. Today, the BIG12 likely created long term survival.

[Chicat]

Once ORWA officially went B1G, we were out of options.

You’re trying to tell us that after already being accepted into the Big12 we were “out of options”?

Uhhhhh, what?

Might want to check that timeline. We always had options and chose the best one. Had nothing to do with Oregon and Washington. Our decision came first.

Today, the BIG12 likely created long term survival.

This is funny because looking through this thread you sucked up the internet bandwidth of a small country trying to convince everyone that joining the Big12 would mean our imminent doom. I mean post after post, long ass paragraph after long ass paragraph. But now you see the light, huh?

[Fishclamps]

I wish I could just shut my brain off like some people here

[dmjcat]

Agree completely.

We will also do better in recruiting in certain areas due to:

1) Many of the upper level 3 stars/low level 4 stars that previously went to Stanford/Cal will now look at the UA because
they will not want to play in the MountainPacWest Conference (or whatever they call it)

2) The two LA schools (especially UCLA) are likely to get their ass kicked in the B1G.....this will not make those schools
more attractive in the eyes of recruits

3) The LA schools will be doing some serious traveling (sometimes in the snow/sleet in November). Once potential recruits see
USC/UCLA players freezing their ass off on TV (while getting clobbered on a frozen field 2500 miles from sunny LA) they may decide to take a 2nd look at the UA

[PHXCATS]

I wish I could just shut my brain off like some people here

Exactly. Imagine if we all just followed what Scheer and Luke said and never thought independently

[PHXCATS]

Oh wow Brad speaks for everyone right.......

[Chicat]

I wish I could just shut my brain off like some people here

Exactly. Imagine if we all just followed what Scheer and Luke said and never thought independently

You straight up cited Scheer not even 10 hours ago. Make up your mind troll.

[CalStateTempe]

Agree completely.

We will also do better in recruiting in certain areas due to:

1) Many of the upper level 3 stars/low level 4 stars that previously went to Stanford/Cal will now look at the UA because
they will not want to play in the MountainPacWest Conference (or whatever they call it)

2) The two LA schools (especially UCLA) are likely to get their ass kicked in the B1G.....this will not make those schoolsl
more attractive in the eyes of recruits

3) The LA schools will be doing some serious traveling (sometimes in the snow/sleet in November). Once potential recruits see
USC/UCLA players freezing their ass off on TV (while getting clobbered) they may decide to take a 2nd look at the UA

All of this. Especially 2 and 3. Ucla and usc lots a big part of the recruiting idea of sunny CA, when half the fall and winter they’re gonna be elsewhere. It’s gonna be glorious to watch the ge their ass kicked.

Personally ucla folds first. The travel won’t be sustainable for them long term

[AZCatGirl]

This is amazing. Kinda feel for the four remaining presidents.

[Chicat]

Agree completely.

We will also do better in recruiting in certain areas due to:

1) Many of the upper level 3 stars/low level 4 stars that previously went to Stanford/Cal will now look at the UA because
they will not want to play in the MountainPacWest Conference (or whatever they call it)

2) The two LA schools (especially UCLA) are likely to get their ass kicked in the B1G.....this will not make those schools
more attractive in the eyes of recruits

3) The LA schools will be doing some serious traveling (sometimes in the snow/sleet in November). Once potential recruits see
USC/UCLA players freezing their ass off on TV (while getting clobbered on a frozen field 2500 miles from sunny LA) they may decide to take a 2nd look at the UA

Chip Kelly in August 2025: “It will be a real privilege and a challenge to play at Ohio State in November, but we are confident our Bruin student-athletes will rise up to meet the moment.”

Chip Kelly postgame at The Shoe: “Well, obviously in that first half the atmosphere was a challenge for our guys. It’s rare you play in front of 112,000 screaming people all sitting right on top of you. Then in the second half the driving ice storm really seemed to affect our players’ footing and we did have a couple cases of frostbite, and a few of our linemen developed what can only really be described as trenchfoot… But overall we liked the effort. It’s not easy trying to come back from being down 5 or 6 touchdowns no matter how much time was left in the second quarter at that point.”

[azcat49]

So the Furd President gave GK the riot act? That is rich IMO. While he guided the ship for the media contract he was severely limited given one, his powers, and two, the decision made by those presidents that brought in Scott.

[GlobalCat]

Trying to find a way out

“NYC finance bros are going to rip off panhandle rednecks”

[GlobalCat]

My view: this whole thing sucks. Stable/predictable revenues are nice, but this is not the only measure or predictor of success. Huge sympathy for the Olympic sport athletes with an uglier season schedule and huge sorrow for the loss of traditions. Arizona’s well know traveling fans base isn’t showing up in Big 12 backwater cities either.

Fuck USC (and their little brother ucla) for catalyzing this whole thing.

[KillerKlown]

Lmao. Imagine Stanford in the MWC. They'll be such huge assholes to the rest of the league and they'll probably have a hand in destroying that one too. Didn't want OkieSt and TTU now they'll probably end up with a school with blue turf and a conference logo that looks like a game cube. At least their "fans" won't notice.

[Siempre Verde]

I think it is time to interject, Fuck Larry Scott.

[GlobalCat]

I think it is time to interject, Fuck Larry Scott.

Seriously. And his biggest backer Michael crow.

[AZCatGirl]

The drama with the last 4 schools is going to be fun to watch.

[Postmaster]

Wasn’t there talk of ND joining B10 if Stanford was brought in?

[Chicat]

Just waking up to realize we are still in a conference with Michael Crow. I hope the other school presidents kneecap that motherfucker at the first meeting.

[Alieberman]

If the Big12 wants a west coast presence why not press Stanford and Cal?

[FreeSpiritCat]

If the Big12 wants a west coast presence why not press Stanford and Cal?

My problem with Stanford and Cal is they don't care about sports, especially revenue producing sports. Cal has to pay $18 mil/year just for interest on their new football stadium. They are going to be paying on that stadium for a long long time. And then not to put the resources into football to provide a competitive team. It doesn't make sense to me. Stanford can do what it wants. They are fine being independent.

[Chicat]

If the Big12 wants a west coast presence why not press Stanford and Cal?

Because their fanbases are apathetic and almost non-existent. I’ve scrolled Twitter non-stop and not once have I seen any of their fans talk about realignment, the demise of the pac, the rise of the mega conference, their spot in this new world order… nothing. They just do not care.

[Alieberman]

This is true.

Sometimes I wish I was more like a Stanford fan

[wyo-cat]

Just waking up to realize we are still in a conference with Michael Crow. I hope the other school presidents kneecap that motherfucker at the first meeting.

He’ll have zero juice in the B12.

It will make him STFU about shit.

[EastCoastCat]

This is true.

Sometimes I wish I was more like a Stanford fan

I'm a closet Stanford fan carrying the torch for my Father. Believe me when I say it wasn't always that way when they were the Stanford Indians.

I know I've mentioned it a few times before but the most fun I ever had a sporting event was the '72 Rose Bowl where Stanford kicked a FG at the end to beat Michigan 13-12. My dad and I along with the crazy Stanford band celebrated on the field for about 30 minutes after the game - one of my favorite memories.

Just sad to watch the malaise going on at The Farm these days.

[Chicat]

Just waking up to realize we are still in a conference with Michael Crow. I hope the other school presidents kneecap that motherfucker at the first meeting.

He’ll have zero juice in the B12.

It will make him STFU about shit.

I imagine Crow starting on some #1 in Innovation bullshit and the Okie State prez ripping a loud fart and following it up with “Not ‘round here Champ. Not ‘round here…”

[ASUHATER!]

I still don't like it and will miss our liberal West coast bubble with road trips to Seattle and Eugene and Berkeley and LA and the decades of history but it is about survival at this point. Not being in a conference with USC and Oregon and Texas And Oklahoma means our football team has a chance to actually grow and become competitive. Doesn't mean we will be in the big 12, but we have a chance to at least be decent and have money and support.

[CalStateTempe]

1. We need EPL style relegation in CFB

2. SDSU and WSU would be perfect for b12’s truck stop conference.

[wyo-cat]

Stop knocking on truck stops.

The TTT at I10 and Craycroft has a great breakfast.

[UAEebs86]

Stop knocking on truck stops.

The TTT at I10 and Craycroft has a great breakfast.

Amen Wyo - used to live just a few minutes away in Vail.

Omar's Hi-Way Chef FTW!

[CalStateTempe]

I love truck stops too!

I love the B12 and everything it represents.

[Postmaster]

Crow is also working on getting Raytheon to move to Tempe. I know it’s not sports, but it still seems like he is trying to undermine U of A and Tucson.

[UAEebs86]

Crow is also working on getting Raytheon to move to Tempe. I know it’s not sports, but it still seems like he is trying to undermine U of A and Tucson.

Really? Do you a link with any details?

I don't think they will ever be able to move the manufacturing away from the Tucson plant site, but they could probably move the engineering and other office jobs like supply chain/finance/HR etc. They've been looking at trying to do that for years - the turnover at the Tucson site is insane since the merger with United Technologies.

[pc in NM]

Disturbing analysis...

O’Neil: Latest conference realignment shows stunning lack of thought or foresight

https://theathletic.com/4749959/2023/08 ... ign=602288

This is where we are. Ostensibly bright people are instead acting like lunatics, a lethal combination of pinheaded panicked presidents and carnivorous conference administrators forging a future that is no more stable than the past, while giving exactly zero consideration to their athletes and not even thinking about what the market might bear out in 10 years.

If conference realignment has taught us anything, it is that it is never aligned. “We’ve been waiting for a year, and there is so much enthusiasm in my time across the country with alumni and parents, I really couldn’t wait until July 1.’’ Colorado chancellor Philip DiStefano said that in 2011, as the bells tolled on his campus 12 times to signify the move to the Pac-12. Don’t let the door hit you, Phil.

That’s the great joke in all of this, that somehow these college enterprises are collegial. They are loyal to no one and beholden only to their bank accounts. In the midst of the mayhem, Florida State felt compelled to threaten the ACC with its departure … as if it were 1988, and Wide Right still mattered. (Though God bless Oregon State for pledging its undying love to the Pac-12. Which is kinda like saying the prom is an archaic rite of passage, when, in truth, no one has asked you to go.) All of 12 hours ago, Big Ten presidents reportedly weren’t all on board to add Washington and Oregon, and yet now here we are. Grab hands, sing Kumbaya, and grit your teeth. Meanwhile, Arizona and Arizona State are still mulling their move to the Big 12, which does not exactly read like anyone is super eager to join.

If the past has taught us anything, rarely do these reconfigurations work. How many teams or leagues have truly gotten better, or made their league better? Since all of this shook out, only one realigned team has made it to the College Football Playoff (TCU), while only one (UConn) has won a men’s college basketball title — and UConn was misaligned to the American; that does not count.

If anything, they’ve all been diluted by their bloating. Boston College athletics is hanging on a missing poster inside every campus post office. Maryland, Syracuse and Pitt basketball, all successful and proud members of their former associations, have struggled to carve new identities in the Big Ten and ACC, respectively. Texas A&M football joined the SEC in 2012. And? And while the Big Ten keeps getting bigger, it still hasn’t won a college hoops championship in 23 years. The small but mighty Big East, meantime, has won three in the last seven.

Didn’t the Pac-12 essentially just prove that neither Oregon nor Washington was enough to attract more money from TV packages?

And still we gather eggs, not merely overlooking the value, but giving zero care to the consequences, long term or short. At its core, all of this is about TV money. As one college basketball coach once quipped, “the Fox Conference versus ESPN.” Yet just this week, the New York Times reported that ESPN’s profits plunged 29 percent in the last six months. Disney is so concerned about its once fatted calf that it’s considering spinning off minority stakes to professional teams. Why? Because the network has spent a gajillion dollars on rights fees at a time when people are cord cutting, and the presumed cash cow of streaming hasn’t exactly paid off.

But very often booms are followed by busts, and much like the homeowner never sees his or her property value tanking, university presidents seem immune to the idea that the steady flow of cash is not forever. Right now, people are still tuning in to college football, but just how much interest that Washington-Northwestern traditional battle draws remains to be seen.

Also, basic math lesson for the academics: The more teams you add, the more you have to spread the wealth.

Granted, Arizona-Kansas hoops — if the Big 12 expansion shakes out — could be fun, but please let’s not pretend this is about basketball. Or any other sport. It is not, nor has it ever been. We can invite Bill Walton to conduct last rites on Pac-12 basketball, but no one making these decisions truly mourns its death. Or frankly even considered the idea it was killing it. Chip Kelly (27-29 at UCLA) > John Wooden (620-147).

Perhaps down the road the brain trust that wants to expand the NCAA Tournament will realize how this could backfire. It’s kinda hard to get more of your cruddy teams into the bracket when the size of your conference could mean not all of your members will even make the conference tournament. That might catch their eye. Not because the athletes won’t get a shot in March; because they won’t get more NCAA tourney shares.

But odds are, right now at least, that hasn’t crossed anyone’s mind. Nor has the idea that while the football players load up in their charter flights for their grueling weekend trips, there will be a volleyball player somewhere grabbing a middle seat in coach to travel across the country on a Wednesday in December and take a chem lab in the Hyatt ballroom.

Way back when — in this case, Monday — Big Ten people discussed how diligent they’ve been at tackling the new travel for USC and UCLA. The diligence in this case meaning that they had discussed it — not that they had a solution. In fact, they lauded the fact that the Los Angeles airport as a West Coast hub made things a lot easier for everyone. Two schools neatly tied to the big airport, easy entry and exit for anyone.

So did anyone, in this mad dash to grab Oregon and Washington, consider the Eugene to State College commute? Maybe the conference is divided into divisions. Iowa City to Seattle is still not exactly a puddle jumper for Olympic sports athletes who rely on the ever-reliable commercial airline industry.

Also just curious: USC and UCLA beach volleyball? On the banks of the old Raritan? Or Lake Michigan?

Right. None of that occurred to anyone.

[BBQ wildcat]

I'm just breathing a huge sigh of relief that this whole shitshow is over -- for us anyway. I always thought that, once USC and UCLA left, we just had to get out.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Lots of people, like David Kelly (who I just blocked) starting out with "It's a sad day..." God, what absolute bullshit. It's a GREAT new day. All of the whining and hang-wringing is over (except for any pathetic soul who lives just for that.) The Pac with the LA schools was neat, but it had a LONG list of frustrations that I'm sure are well documented if anybody wants to scroll back in time on these pages. But, after USC and UCLA were gone, it was mostly Pullman and Corvallis and a whole lot of bad management. We've got a nice group of reasonably nearby schools in the Big XII. Lubbock is as close as Salt Lake or Denver, and Dallas is just a little farther. We landed nicely on our feet, and there's some excitement in the air; time for something new. I'll enjoy the whining from the new Big Ten entrants about non-revenue sport travel (it's already started) and watching all teams in that boat come home from road trips with black eyes. Meanwhile, we'll be playing a lot of teams we already know all about, and nobody in Big XII football is all that intimidating. We should get more earlier starts, and maybe we'll even get a fair shake and more common sense in officiating. I don't see much in the way of downsides.

[FreeSpiritCat]

Crow is also working on getting Raytheon to move to Tempe. I know it’s not sports, but it still seems like he is trying to undermine U of A and Tucson.

Really? Do you a link with any details?

I don't think they will ever be able to move the manufacturing away from the Tucson plant site, but they could probably move the engineering and other office jobs like supply chain/finance/HR etc. They've been looking at trying to do that for years - the turnover at the Tucson site is insane since the merger with United Technologies.

Raytheon is located next to Tucson International Airport. It makes it easier to ship missile parts.

[CatsbyAZ]

I'm just breathing a huge sigh of relief that this whole shitshow is over -- for us anyway. I always thought that, once USC and UCLA left, we just had to get out.

Breathing the same sigh of relief; Certainly was a shitshow the past three days. Woke up this morning realizing that after spending my younger adult years running away from all the Big Ten/12 states where I lived out my stable Midwestern childhood – Minnesota, Chicago suburbs, Oklahoma, Missouri, and Texas – here I am, back in the Big Ten/12 no matter how far West I’ve since lived – Arizona, Oregon, and now Southern California.

Either way, glad for Arizona's admins seeing this through despite hesitance and flat-footing from Utah and ASU.

Meanwhile, we'll be playing a lot of teams we already know all about, and nobody in Big XII football is all that intimidating.

This is a point we haven’t yet dived into. When it comes to the Big 12 post-Texas/Oklahoma, there aren’t standout powers. With the dust settling you have programs like TCU, Kansas State, Baylor, and Oklahoma State who are dependably strong yet can just as likely stoop to a 5-7 type year.

Listening to Jody Oehler on 910AM yesterday morning and he might’ve described it best – Arizona is leaving a top-heavier conference where over the last 20 seasons the rotating powers – Stanford, USC, Oregon, Washington, Utah – constituted a nearly impenetrable Top 10 level pairing or trio year in, year out. Now we’re joining a conference more characterized by a very large middle class without a sizeable or dependable Top Tier.

[UAEebs86]

Crow is also working on getting Raytheon to move to Tempe. I know it’s not sports, but it still seems like he is trying to undermine U of A and Tucson.

Really? Do you a link with any details?

I don't think they will ever be able to move the manufacturing away from the Tucson plant site, but they could probably move the engineering and other office jobs like supply chain/finance/HR etc. They've been looking at trying to do that for years - the turnover at the Tucson site is insane since the merger with United Technologies.

Guess this is what you were talking about:

Defense giant Raytheon sets up engineering-design hub at ASU's SkySong center

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 0524327007

[KillerKlown]

Crow is also working on getting Raytheon to move to Tempe. I know it’s not sports, but it still seems like he is trying to undermine U of A and Tucson.

Really? Do you a link with any details?

I don't think they will ever be able to move the manufacturing away from the Tucson plant site, but they could probably move the engineering and other office jobs like supply chain/finance/HR etc. They've been looking at trying to do that for years - the turnover at the Tucson site is insane since the merger with United Technologies.

Raytheon is located next to Tucson International Airport. It makes it easier to ship missile parts.

I really hate Crow now. That little, whiney puta. Him and his dumb Morrie Kessler wig. He should go sit in a front seat late at night with some friends. Asshole.

[TheGreatCatsby]

It's likely all this will change again dramatically in another 8 years or so as the media market continues to evolve. Right now we're at the crossroads of failing traditional linear TV, while streaming paywalls aren't quite there yet to offer security or enough guaranteed money. Now was just a terrible time for the PAC12 to try and get a new TV deal, as Disney is looking to dump ESPN. The time for that was back in 2018 when ESPN offered the PAC a lifeline, and Larry fumbled the bag in his ivory tower.

Given that some current streamers are losing massive amounts of money year over year, we don't even know which of those will survive. In 2031 there may be also be no linear TV ESPN of FOX to offer $4 billion dollar contracts to leagues. You would think there would be something to replace them, but we could see a broadcast industry so fractured by then it looks like the current music industry, with no big players left to make mega deals.

And also by then everybody might realize we collectively lost our minds back in the post-pandemic 2021-2025 years. The athletes may decide they hate all the crazy travel demands and schedules, leading to an even stronger push for student athlete unionization. The unions will be at the table next time determining who plays where and in what conference. By then the schools out west, as it continues to add population, might realize something like a PAC16 might make sense financially and it might make sense to play schools closer to home. Maybe by 2031 society will view all the carbon emission based jet travel as environmentally dangerous/irresponsible, and that could change the calculations as well.

For now at least, the new Big12 rivalries will be a lot of fun. Basketball is going to be great. A finally getting some actual east coast exposure and recognition will be nice.

[Alieberman]

[KillerKlown]

If Stanford joins the big12 is gonna need a nickname for ASU, Utah and Stanford.

[Alieberman]

They really need to get that Wall built between California and AZ quick!

How did we just land a California recruit today?????

[GlobalCat]

It's likely all this will change again dramatically in another 8 years or so as the media market continues to evolve. Right now we're at the crossroads of failing traditional linear TV, while streaming paywalls aren't quite there yet to offer security or enough guaranteed money. Now was just a terrible time for the PAC12 to try and get a new TV deal, as Disney is looking to dump ESPN. The time for that was back in 2018 when ESPN offered the PAC a lifeline, and Larry fumbled the bag in his ivory tower.

Given that some current streamers are losing massive amounts of money year over year, we don't even know which of those will survive. In 2031 there may be also be no linear TV ESPN of FOX to offer $4 billion dollar contracts to leagues. You would think there would be something to replace them, but we could see a broadcast industry so fractured by then it looks like the current music industry, with no big players left to make mega deals.

And also by then everybody might realize we collectively lost our minds back in the post-pandemic 2021-2025 years. The athletes may decide they hate all the crazy travel demands and schedules, leading to an even stronger push for student athlete unionization. The unions will be at the table next time determining who plays where and in what conference. By then the schools out west, as it continues to add population, might realize something like a PAC16 might make sense financially and it might make sense to play schools closer to home. Maybe by 2031 society will view all the carbon emission based jet travel as environmentally dangerous/irresponsible, and that could change the calculations as well.

For now at least, the new Big12 rivalries will be a lot of fun. Basketball is going to be great. A finally getting some actual east coast exposure and recognition will be nice.

There was a shocking amount of understanding or acknowledgment from many of the cheerleaders for conference realignment on these noted points.

My hunch is we we’ll see a further bifurcation of football (and hoops to a lesser degree) vs all other college sports.

[Irish27]

[Postmaster]

WVU and CFU have a bit of driving

[azgreg]

Stop knocking on truck stops.

The TTT at I10 and Craycroft has a great breakfast.

Not to mention their hot apple pie and ice cream. Fantastic.

[azgreg]

I love truck stops too!

I love the B12 and everything it represents.

If you're hungry just look for a truck stop with a parking lot full of big rigs. You just know the food will be good.