Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:47 pm
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Streaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:03 pm Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?
That's exactly what I believe yes.
How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:42 pmThat's exactly what I believe yes.
I don't see a point in sticking with the Pac-10 for another 5-6 year TV deal just to be as unstable then as we are today. Like you love to say, the Big 12 is going nowhere. They are the definition of stability that the Pac-10 is not at this moment or in 5-6 years or whatever. If we stay in the Pac-10 we're just dragging our feet and playing in a conference with absolute garbage dog shit basketball and whatever football. I don't know why anybody is excited for that.
I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.
Why can’t bars stream?ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:39 pmStreaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:03 pm Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?
Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.
I suppose they can hook up Fire Sticks to all their TVs and play games on Amazon and such. It's easier for a bar to set up numerous TVs off one satellite than it is for a bar to stream a game on numerous TVs. Better have a damn good router. I'm dying to see how bars handle Thursday night football now that it's exclusively on Amazon.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:05 amWhy can’t bars stream?ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:39 pmStreaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:03 pm Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?
Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.
So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:48 amI literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.
The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.
The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.
We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:21 amSo your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:48 amI literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.
The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.
The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.
Feels like a problem someone could get very rich solving.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:09 amI suppose they can hook up Fire Sticks to all their TVs and play games on Amazon and such. It's easier for a bar to set up numerous TVs off one satellite than it is for a bar to stream a game on numerous TVs. Better have a damn good router. I'm dying to see how bars handle Thursday night football now that it's exclusively on Amazon.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:05 amWhy can’t bars stream?ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:39 pmStreaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:03 pm Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?
Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.
Did we just agree to become business partners?CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:48 amFeels like a problem someone could get very rich solving.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:09 amI suppose they can hook up Fire Sticks to all their TVs and play games on Amazon and such. It's easier for a bar to set up numerous TVs off one satellite than it is for a bar to stream a game on numerous TVs. Better have a damn good router. I'm dying to see how bars handle Thursday night football now that it's exclusively on Amazon.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:05 amWhy can’t bars stream?ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:39 pmStreaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:03 pm Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?
Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.
We have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:41 amWe're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:21 amSo your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:48 amI literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.
The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.
The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.
The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?
If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.
Our recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:30 amWe have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:41 amWe're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:21 amSo your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:48 amI literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.
The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.
The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.
The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?
If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.
And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.
Looking at the football roster only, I see kids from N. Cal, SLC, Denver, and Portland. A few from Houston and Florida, but more from non LA PAC areas.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:44 amOur recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:30 amWe have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:41 amWe're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:21 amSo your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:48 am
I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.
The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.
The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.
The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?
If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.
And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.
Yep, bingo.Captcarnage wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:44 pm The only way we get a SEC or B1G invite is to agree to be in a western pod with all our home games at night. Not impossible but not probable either. PAC or BIG 12 is late night for us already with a game or 2 exception each year currently. If we dont go to BIG12 we run a big risk in my opinion, of not having a seat when the music stops. Then we are relegated to MTN 2.0. Late night AZ vs Fresno state doesnt move the needle.
Also a bingo. Nailed it all man.Fendicent4ever wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:48 pm For the record, I say gut the Pac 12 and bounce right now. The only rivalries I was invested in were against ASU and the LA schools. Like it or not, Arizona has much more in common with Texas than it does with Portland or Seattle. The conference is a stupid albatross that only flies in the middle of the night. Larry killed this thing and theres no iteration coming back- unless somehow SDSU and Long Beach suddenly became AAU institutions, Gonzaga invests billions into starting a football program, or Northridge decides its done being a commuter college. All of those are about as likely as an SEC "Double West" hypothetical right now.
Recruiting pipelines I have some thoughts on. Some other rambling as well.
1) Being first movers to a real conference might open up doors in southern California that staying in the Super-MWC (Super Pac?) will NEVER do for this university. The blue chippers will always leave sure, but the good LA, Conejo valley, San Diego, OC kids (not to mention bay area) are ripe for the picking if its a team in a league that plays in front of people during the occasional daylight hour in front of a great crowd in Stillwater, Ft. Worth, Morgantown, or Houston vs going to play in the mausoleums that will be Berkley and the Palouse.
2) Arizonas best teams since I've been a fan were in 2014, 2008 and 2009- before Gronk was hurt and may or may not have quit. The spine of that 14 side was Stoops guys- including tackles from Chicagoland, Mayno from norcal. The earlier iterations? Lots of Californians sure, but a lot of Bedenbaugh kids from Dupage county, Nick Foles from the wine and cheese district of Austin, Criner from Vegas, and tons of Texans. Look down our glue guys- X Kelley, Sterling Lewis, Terrell Turner, Donald Horton, Corey Hall, Michael Johnson, Yaniv Barnett, Ronnie Palmer. All guys who'd have been the best player on any Rich Rod defense (TT aside)- to say nothing of Sumlin. I'd much rather stock the pond with Desoto, Oak Cliff, Cypress and Tarrant County dudes than whatever it was that we've been doing since about Thanksgiving 2011. I say all of that to say, maybe our pipelines as they currently exist are tapped or possibly overrated?
3) Arizona historically has been a destination school. Idk what it looks like now but when I got there yes the majority were in-staters and Californians (like myself) but there were so many midwesterners that we had an orientation in Chicago. Lots of Bergen County and Plano kids in the Greek system. I can see a version of U of A flourishing in the Big 12. While its not the SEC or the Big 10 it dumps on what we are doing now- we are the exotic brand in the conference. Suddenly all those students more athletic teammates are watching Arizona games with them growing up. Thats a bigger win than losing at UW at 3AM EST or winning a road game against Stanford in front of 700 people.
4) I HATE Pac-12 after dark. Can't emphasize that enough. Pre Pac-12 network you could watch games in groups. Last 6-7 seasons have been spent watching via Sling Blue. Pac 12 after dark is MACtion with some art deco features.
5) My parents moved to New Mexico about 17 years ago. The foods great, and I dig the Pit, but god that state blows. I would do anything I could not to end up with my alma mater turning into a glorified UNM or heaven forbid a conference foe of the Lobos. You want to hang around and wait on the Pac? Thats the most likely hand you're looking at down the line. The Big 12 is at least a punchers chance. While it's not a home run, it's good teams that put guys in the NFL, play in front of the odd sellout, and that people watch on TV nationally.
6) One final metaphor. Say this is the rust belt in 1970. While you will never be Austin or Miami, you're only other options as a city are Buffalo or Columbus. Which would you take?
I'm not delusional enough to be bullish on our chances, but this is how I would play it if I was Bobbins/MMD or on the ABOR.
In what world is it difficult to fly to Orlando or Cincinnati? Also there’s very little difference between a Wazzu road trip and a Morgantown road trip, look up the flight distance, it ain’t much. Either way that’s 3 road trips, not every Olympic program would have to travel to those locations every year, but you knew that.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:26 amLooking at the football roster only, I see kids from N. Cal, SLC, Denver, and Portland. A few from Houston and Florida, but more from non LA PAC areas.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:44 amOur recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:30 amWe have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:41 amWe're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.
The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?
If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.
And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.
And I'm not including San Diego. We flipped a top women's basketball recruit from UCLA. She is from San Diego. So home games for her are either 2 1/2 hour drives, or 6 hour drives. And away games during conference season? Max flight 3 hours, with all games in the MTN or PAC time zone versus 3 hour flights minimum, and potential early games on the east coast.
Speaking of travel, it's unlikely the BIG 12 TV contract, if larger than the PAC, will be large enough to offset our increased travel costs in the BIG 12. A BIG 12 invite means far trips to Orlando, W. Virginia, Cincinnati, and others.
Extra travel for football is negligible. But football is just one of the 19 sports we have at the UArizona. Changing conferences means farther travel for all sports. Farther travel means higher costs. If you're UCLA or USC, and are making tens of millions more in the B1G, not an issue. But if the BIG 12 and PAC payments are equal, the costs of being in the BIG 12 will be higher because of travel.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:41 pmIn what world is it difficult to fly to Orlando or Cincinnati? Also there’s very little difference between a Wazzu road trip and a Morgantown road trip, look up the flight distance, it ain’t much. Either way that’s 3 road trips, not every Olympic program would have to travel to those locations every year, but you knew that.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:26 amLooking at the football roster only, I see kids from N. Cal, SLC, Denver, and Portland. A few from Houston and Florida, but more from non LA PAC areas.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:44 amOur recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:30 amWe have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:41 am
We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.
The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?
If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.
And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.
And I'm not including San Diego. We flipped a top women's basketball recruit from UCLA. She is from San Diego. So home games for her are either 2 1/2 hour drives, or 6 hour drives. And away games during conference season? Max flight 3 hours, with all games in the MTN or PAC time zone versus 3 hour flights minimum, and potential early games on the east coast.
Speaking of travel, it's unlikely the BIG 12 TV contract, if larger than the PAC, will be large enough to offset our increased travel costs in the BIG 12. A BIG 12 invite means far trips to Orlando, W. Virginia, Cincinnati, and others.
What's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:02 am You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.
The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.
The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.
But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.
I have laid out the scenario.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:12 amWhat's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:02 am You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.
The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.
The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.
But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.
And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.
The SEC will gobble up what it wants of the ACC before it ever bothers moving west, if it ever bothers moving west.azcat49 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:04 am If the inevitable is the Big 12, why wait. Control your destiny. You can play this game both ways.
If the conclusion is the PAC is toast (like most assume) with poor expansion options(again like most assume) then waiting only brings risk, not reward.
If one thinks that the SEC could come calling to capture a western division, then waiting might have some validity but that is a huge long shot. That is the only valid argument I have heard about not ridding ourselves of this rotting fish of a conference
14 years. The ACC contract doesn't expire for another 14 years. For this scenario to play out, the B1G leaves the LA schools on an island alone for a dozen years and doesn't expand again until the ACC GOR expires.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:23 amI have laid out the scenario.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:12 amWhat's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:02 am You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.
The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.
The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.
But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.
And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.
The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.
The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.
Ok fine, but what's the point? What's the end game? What's the point in sticking together in a doomed marriage? Keep a broken marriage together for another 7 years just because? By 2029 it may already be known that the big ACC schools are already bolting (we knew Texas & OU were out 3 years before they actually could leave). That leaves way more competition to fill those remaining schools that the Big12 would be willing to take on. Inaction for the sake of biding time accomplishes nothing. Make sure you have a seat at the table, always, otherwise hello MWC. I gotta tell ya, you'd suck at musical chairs.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:44 am14 years. The ACC contract doesn't expire for another 14 years. For this scenario to play out, the B1G leaves the LA schools on an island alone for a dozen years and doesn't expand again until the ACC GOR expires.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:23 amI have laid out the scenario.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:12 amWhat's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:02 am You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.
The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.
The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.
But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.
And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.
The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.
The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.
Meanwhile, if the PAC survives this long, we will have signed two, maybe three media rights agreements in this time. No team in the PAC will want to be stuck like the ACC currently is. We will want outs.
If this were 2032 instead in 2022, then maybe your scenario would have merit, and it would be time to jump. But we have the luxury of time while the ACC GOR slowly expires. And we can assume the B1G will likely not leave the LA schools all alone for over a decade, with the closest conference rival being Nebraska.
We can sign a short term media agreement that doesn't expire until 2029, and still have 7 years before the ACC GOR expires. If we do this, and there's no movement with the SEC or B1G before this, then we should bail. But a lot can, and likely will happen in the next 14 years.
The end game? Too many unknowns to make a proper decision today. Let's first find out how the PAC will be carved up. Who does go B1G? Will the SEC make a west coast play? Or, will there be a loose agreement between the ACC and PAC, and will this lead to top BIG 12 teams thinking PAC or ACC?ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:25 amOk fine, but what's the point? What's the end game? What's the point in sticking together in a doomed marriage? Keep a broken marriage together for another 7 years just because? By 2029 it may already be known that the big ACC schools are already bolting (we knew Texas & OU were out 3 years before they actually could leave). That leaves way more competition to fill those remaining schools that the Big12 would be willing to take on. Inaction for the sake of biding time accomplishes nothing. Make sure you have a seat at the table, always, otherwise hello MWC. I gotta tell ya, you'd suck at musical chairs.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:44 am14 years. The ACC contract doesn't expire for another 14 years. For this scenario to play out, the B1G leaves the LA schools on an island alone for a dozen years and doesn't expand again until the ACC GOR expires.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:23 amI have laid out the scenario.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:12 amWhat's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:02 am You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.
The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.
The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.
But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.
And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.
The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.
The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.
Meanwhile, if the PAC survives this long, we will have signed two, maybe three media rights agreements in this time. No team in the PAC will want to be stuck like the ACC currently is. We will want outs.
If this were 2032 instead in 2022, then maybe your scenario would have merit, and it would be time to jump. But we have the luxury of time while the ACC GOR slowly expires. And we can assume the B1G will likely not leave the LA schools all alone for over a decade, with the closest conference rival being Nebraska.
We can sign a short term media agreement that doesn't expire until 2029, and still have 7 years before the ACC GOR expires. If we do this, and there's no movement with the SEC or B1G before this, then we should bail. But a lot can, and likely will happen in the next 14 years.
As soon as the B1G scoops up Oregon and Washington, that changes the calculus. Times up. Now, if you think the college sports landscape isn't going to change again in the next dozen years, and it's 2034, UW and Oregon are still in the PAC, and it's announced all at once that they are finally going B1G, and the ACC and BIG 12 are merging, then you can panic. But it's highly doubtful the B1G leaves UCLA and USC all alone out west for a dozen years.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:33 am 11 years ago after not adding Texas & Oklahoma:
“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”
2022 after losing USC and UCLA and officially entering mid-tier status:
“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”
It’s the year 2034 and the ACC has announced plans to merge with the SEC while the B1G has already scooped up Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Baylor, OKState, and Utah, and the SEC/B1G postseason tournament and title game is the only championship worth anything in the eyes of football fans:
“We have the luxury of time………”
Lol this is great.CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:33 am 11 years ago after not adding Texas & Oklahoma:
“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”
2022 after losing USC and UCLA and officially entering mid-tier status:
“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”
It’s the year 2034 and the ACC has announced plans to merge with the SEC while the B1G has already scooped up Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Baylor, OKState, and Utah, and the SEC/B1G postseason tournament and title game is the only championship worth anything in the eyes of football fans:
“We have the luxury of time………”
How come Arizona is not in the Rose Bowl...
Wow AzCatFan2 really put that one on a tee for you.
Maybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.
If Michael Crow found an old lamp in a sand trap at TPC Scottsdale, rubbed the dust off it, and a genie popped out promising to grant him three wishes including being able to get his school into the SEC or B1G, he’d wish for a turkey club sandwich, then he’d wish it didn’t have mayo… and then he’d change his mind and wish for just a little mayo.ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 pmThe geniuses who said no to taking the Oklahoma schools when they were begging to join are going to save us. They know exactly what they're doing.
Because in the conference metaphor I'm her first choice.
Sigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:32 amMaybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.
I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?
So, does UofA need to MGTOW and go it's own way? Do we need to go full tilt Red Pill?TucsonCat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:44 pmSigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:32 amMaybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.
I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?
But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?
The BIG 12 isn't a 7 without TX and OU. It's a 5.5 or 6 at best. And they want us more than we want them. And they are willing to wait for us to strike out with the 10, and aren't going to marry anyone else before we do. That's because all the other best guys out there are contractually in a relationship until 2036.TucsonCat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:44 pmSigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:32 amMaybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.
I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?
But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?
The fact that you included the sentence “they want us more than we want them” in response to that analogy tells me everything I will ever need to know about you, my friend. Even if they were “only” a 6, to your 5, they automatically have more options than you do. And the fact that you would be willing to treat the one that wants you (one that is more of a catch than you are) with such disdain, means that you are completely deserving of the 4 that you end up with for the rest of your life. Funny thing is, you would sit there lying to yourself and pretending that things couldn’t have ended up differently if you’d grown a spine and acted taken your future into your own hands.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:04 pmThe BIG 12 isn't a 7 without TX and OU. It's a 5.5 or 6 at best. And they want us more than we want them. And they are willing to wait for us to strike out with the 10, and aren't going to marry anyone else before we do. That's because all the other best guys out there are contractually in a relationship until 2036.TucsonCat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:44 pmSigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:32 amMaybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.
I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?
But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?