Bear Down Wildcats

Sounds like Oregon and Washington might testing the Big-12 waters.

Kliavkoff held a meeting with Pac-12 Presidents and Athletic Directors on Thursday and sources indicate to WildcatAuthority that it could not have gone worse. At a time where the schools want and need clarity, Kliavkoff was unable to give it.

The Wildcats never wanted to be the first to go and Colorado got that out of the way. Robbins will now ask for numbers like he has in the past and they won’t be presented. Eventually the Big 12 will push a little bit and when that happens, Arizona is likely to go.

Sounds like anything but confident competent leadership.

Here’s my prediction that will be hammered out over the next month. The main reason is that schools need to make a decision now because the media deals ends less than 1 year.

Arizona - Officially commits to Big12 within two weeks.
Oregon and Washington - Serious talks with Big12 over two weeks but will eventually go Big10 about 1 or 2 weeks after Arizona. I will be surprised if Big10 just sits around and lets Oregon and Washington go to Big 12.
Utah - Hopes Oregon and Washington falls through and joins big-12 immediately.
Stanford or UConn - One will get in.

The temporary deal will be more than the MW, I expect a 2026 ish merge between remaining pac-12 and MW.

I could see UO joining us in the Big 12 because Phil Knight will have no problem paying $100 million if the B1G comes calling. UConn fans seem to think they are getting in, so that's 16 right there.

Scheer expects us to end up in the Big12, for what that's worth. Really hope it's actually happening this time.

Posting from Twitter what @MHver3 is saying tonight:

UConn doesn’t have the votes yet to get an invite. WVU and Cincy are their biggest supporters and prefer them to AZ.

A sizable contingent of the remaining original members still need convincing.

Networks seem to prefer UConn to AZ likely due to tv sets in proximity of the school but are fine with AZ also and aren’t pushing the decision.

GK signaled he was going forward with all in on the Apple deal (100% streaming) for $250m per year minus production expenses(based on 10 schools worth of inventory). Because that’s the only concrete deal that’s ever been available since last August.

That number is deceiving. First take $12.5m off the top for PAC offices. Then production $ will be about $3m a year per school. Apple doesnt want to purchase PAC production networks but may lease them for other content which could add a little money back to those production costs

So the deal is around $20m per school.

Oh yeah-and today ESPN pulled the offer they had floated for one game a week so they are now completely off the table.

So it's simple. When we move to the Big12 we kill Cincy and WVU in everything and show no mercy.

100% streaming on Apple?
Swell.
Does the PAC 9 draw enough interest for everyone to sign up for that?
How many fans chose Direct TV over something that carried PAC 12 net?

Crowe and Larry Scott should both become some of the 72 virgins that terrorist get when they explode themselves.

Hi guys, anything happen lately? Are the same Pac 12 shills still here shilling for a poorly ran conference on the verge of death and advocating for a streamer that obtains exactly 1% of all eyeballs weekly to save us?

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 am Hi guys, anything happen lately? Are the same Pac 12 shills still here shilling for a poorly ran conference on the verge of death and advocating for a streamer that obtains exactly 1% of all eyeballs weekly to save us?

I’d say they are “Pulling a Yogi” but at least that dude is getting a paycheck for his shillery.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 am Hi guys, anything happen lately? Are the same Pac 12 shills still here shilling for a poorly ran conference on the verge of death and advocating for a streamer that obtains exactly 1% of all eyeballs weekly to save us?

https://i.imgflip.com/7u4srw.jpg

This article from CBS Sports describes how the BIG12 may be winning versus the PAC, longb term, the BIG12 is just losing more slowly. Over the next 5 years, BIG12 teams will be making significantly less than SEC and B1G schools. If that gap widens in the future, is not sustainable. https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... e-horizon/

Moving to the BIG12 now might be the best option out of all the bad options we have today. But it's still a bad option.

It’s a less worse option.

Being in a zombie conference is worse.

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:50 am This article from CBS Sports describes how the BIG12 may be winning versus the PAC, longb term, the BIG12 is just losing more slowly. Over the next 5 years, BIG12 teams will be making significantly less than SEC and B1G schools. If that gap widens in the future, is not sustainable. https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... e-horizon/

Moving to the BIG12 now might be the best option out of all the bad options we have today. But it's still a bad option.

I have confidence in Brett Yormark to do what's best for us and the conference. I have absolutely zero confidence in GK and the other 6 schools that hang on his nuts no matter what.
And news flash, everyone is already making significantly less than the B1G and SEC schools.

Let's save the PAC. Bring in SDSU, and/or Fresno St and SMU and move on. We need west coast schools in our conference. Our recruiting is doomed if we move.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:09 pm Let's save the PAC. Bring in SDSU, and/or Fresno St and SMU and move on. We need west coast schools in our conference. Our recruiting is doomed if we move.

You think our recruiting will be better in a zombie conference of fringe P5 schools that will be streaming games at the ass end of the internet and never even mentioned by the mainstream sports press except to wonder when Oregon and Washington will put the final bullet in its half-dead brain?

With Oregon. Washington, Utah. Stan f ord, UC Berkeley, and an upcoming SDSU program which has a new stadium and no longer has to compete with a professional team, the PAC won't be a zombie conference.

This is a better scenario than us being in a conference which brings with it a situation that completely kills our ability to recruit in Southern California. ASU would kill us in recruiting also.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:11 pm With Oregon. Washington, Utah. Stan f ord, UC Berkeley, and an upcoming SDSU program which has a new stadium and no longer has to compete with a professional team, the PAC won't be a zombie conference.

This is a better scenario than us being in a conference which brings with it a situation that completely kills our ability to recruit in Southern California. ASU would kill us in recruiting also.

We have successfully recruited Texas, and the southern states before. Why would that change when we start playing more games in that area of the country? Yes, we would lose some of the California recruits, but not Hawaii. And honestly, the cream of the crop in California is likely to trend even more heavily towards USC and UCLA in the coming years due to the heavy influx of money and exposure that those schools are going to receive in Big10. We won’t lose basketball recruits from the west coast. The Big12 will be the premiere basketball conference in the country, and west coast recruits will likely target UA as the most convenient pathway into that particular party. Really very, very little downside on the recruiting front. Not moving, and being stuck in a non-power conference on the other hand, will be devastating for our ability to pull in good recruits. If moving was seen as such a devastating blow to our recruiting, you would have heard a lot more from coaches, begging to keep the Pac12 together, instead of the canned party-line responses we’ve heard so far.

Who's gonna pay for SDSU to come in?

ASU also stopped killing us in recruiting once Fisch and company came in and asu cleaned house.
And what exactly is asu going to sell to recruits?
"Come with us to play against OrSt, WSU, CAL, Stan, Utah, Fresno St, SMU, SdSt, and Boise St"? Glorified Mountain West Con.

Whos going to pay for their payouts to come to the Pac?

You did see the post with Pac Mem's making a projected measly 20 mil a year after payed debts right?

The Pac is no longer the Pac.

CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:37 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:09 pm Let's save the PAC. Bring in SDSU, and/or Fresno St and SMU and move on. We need west coast schools in our conference. Our recruiting is doomed if we move.

You think our recruiting will be better in a zombie conference of fringe P5 schools that will be streaming games at the ass end of the internet and never even mentioned by the mainstream sports press except to wonder when Oregon and Washington will put the final bullet in its half-dead brain?

Ding, Ding, we have a winner.

The fact that most, if not all, of our games will be streamed will do more to kill our recruiting than anything else if we stay in the flaming train wreck of a conference that is the PAC9.......soon to be 8,7,6...........When only 1% of the potential HS recruits get to see your games it has a rather negative impact on your ability to sell your school.

And when Oregon & Washington do leave (which they will in a nanosecond at the first chance they get) we will be stuck in the MWC 2.0

Robbins needs to get us out of this disaster of a conference ASAP.

Really hope this is as legit as he claims.

KillerKlown wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:46 pm Who's gonna pay for SDSU to come in?

SDSU will.

The California recruiting impact is overblown. Nothing will keep Arizona from scheduling a yearly California trip. The TV exposure for being in the Big-12 will be so much better than Pac-12 network. Tucson is still relatively close to the LA area compared to others.

An extra 12m a year over what ASSU gets should give us a pretty healthy advantage in many ways one would think

OSUCat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 2:14 pm The California recruiting impact is overblown. Nothing will keep Arizona from scheduling a yearly California trip. The TV exposure for being in the Big-12 will be so much better than Pac-12 network. Tucson is still relatively close to the LA area compared to others.

Also nothing will keep Arizona from bordering California.

And with the advent of the portal it’s not as important to rely solely on HS recruiting. Look at what Fisch is doing.

And for basketball we’ve always recruited nationally and now internationally too.

Latest developments at the Pac-9 leadership council. It's gets better the longer you wait and watch.

OSUCat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 2:14 pm The California recruiting impact is overblown. Nothing will keep Arizona from scheduling a yearly California trip. The TV exposure for being in the Big-12 will be so much better than Pac-12 network. Tucson is still relatively close to the LA area compared to others.

Who will UA football be playing every year in California?

You guys are rationalizing and you're wrong. Football recruiting will be adversely affected. Many California kids aren't going to go east to Tucson knowing that is the closest to home they will play all season.

Our football program is doomed if we leave the PAC.

Your comment makes it sounds like we play half of our games in California, which is the only reason why players from that state would come to play for UA. In an average year, we play only two football games in the state. One in Northern California, and one in Southern California. I really don’t think a player is going to base their decision on the fact that their friends and family may be able to come see them in person once, or twice a year, rather than if they can catch all of their games on a network that is readily available to them. UA hosts a family weekend, and Tucson is a short distance away for any family who wants to come watch their kids play in person. Stay with the Pac, and watch it devolve into the MW, however, and those same kids will never be on national TV again. That reduces their exposure, and potentially negatively impacts their draft potential. That is what would effectively kill our football program. Not the loss of one or two games a year on the West Coast. And by the way, there is absolutely nothing to say that we couldn’t, or wouldn’t, schedule at least one OOC game a year against Stanford, or Cal, or UCLA, or USC, or SDSU, or Fresno St, or USD, etc. In fact, I think it would become an almost certain action that the school would take, if we do in fact change conference affiliation.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 10:10 am You guys are rationalizing and you're wrong. Football recruiting will be adversely affected. Many California kids aren't going to go east to Tucson knowing that is the closest to home they will play all season.

Our football program is doomed if we leave the PAC.

Then we were already fucked the second USC/UCLA announced they were joining the Big Ten, yet somehow we're still landing kids from SoCal, 6 alone in this recruiting class so far. It's amazing how that works.

Our NorCal recruiting may suffer, I'll give you that, but our lifeblood is SoCal and at the moment it doesn't seem to be as affected as you're making it out to be. We're a 6 hour drive away from LA. LA is also a 6 hour drive away from the Bay Area. We'll be fine. We can easily replace any NorCal recruiting with Texas recruiting. As is we have as many Texas recruits committed as we do NorCal recruits and we're not even in the Big 12 yet.

Our football program is much more doomed staying in the PAC.

Whatever the decisions made (and hopefully to move) it should center on what is best for the football program.

The basketball program has almost maxed out its revenue and each unit in the tournament is only worth 338k (although the Big12 get double the teams in that the PAC does). The expanded football playoffs is a 1.9b entity which gives each conference 323m to divide up.

Whatever the move ends up being we need to invest heavily in football. If we lose any recruiting advantages we need to double down. We need to keep Fisch and add lots of $’s to the assistants pool of money. We need to redo the east side is AZ stadium and work hard to be a leader in NIL in the conference (Big12).

Most want to go it seems mostly because of the basketball match ups and second for the increased revenues. Revenues should be first and we have the greatest upside in football

Assuming the inevitable happens and we join the Big XII, it won't be the end of the world. Once Schaefer took Harvill's choke-chain off and hired a competent staff, Jim Young did fine with plenty of California players when the Arizona schools were the closest to LA in their conference. Yeah, he inherited his best players, and he was never a great recruiter anywhere, but those players came previously anyway, due in part to geography. And Fisch is a good recruiter who also doesn't have the decrepit facilities Young was stuck with. No doubt Crow wants "Innovation State" to rub elbows with Stanford, and Utah probably doesn't want to be reunited with BYU. They can do whatever they want. But it's hard to believe remaining supposed "heavyweights" Oregon and Washington would be long for a Mountain-Pac-Lite conference. I don't think Wildcat fans will complain too much about seeing TCU, Baylor, Houston, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St, BYU, and Kansas St in Arizona Stadium. And I don't think they'll mind seeing Kansas, K-State, Houston, Baylor, and TCU at McKale. And if Crow insists on staying in a diminished and crumbling league that nobody watches on Apple+, we can play them in early-season non-conference games to help fill out our dance card.

Hansen linked this from a former Seattle sportswriter's web page. Interesting summary of the Pac's arrogance "informing" it's decisions through the years.

https://madhoopsthebook.com/2023/07/29/ ... ng-hubris/

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 10:10 am You guys are rationalizing and you're wrong. Football recruiting will be adversely affected. Many California kids aren't going to go east to Tucson knowing that is the closest to home they will play all season.

Our football program is doomed if we leave the PAC.

NIL money can fly people from California to Tucson to watch their kids play.

Predicting our football program is doomed if we don’t play Cal and SDSU in conference is silly. Not only can we schedule Cali teams out of conference, the city of Tucson is not moving to the other end of the country.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 10:42 am Whatever the decisions made (and hopefully to move) it should center on what is best for the football program.

The basketball program has almost maxed out its revenue and each unit in the tournament is only worth 338k (although the Big12 get double the teams in that the PAC does). The expanded football playoffs is a 1.9b entity which gives each conference 323m to divide up.

Whatever the move ends up being we need to invest heavily in football. If we lose any recruiting advantages we need to double down. We need to keep Fisch and add lots of $’s to the assistants pool of money. We need to redo the east side is AZ stadium and work hard to be a leader in NIL in the conference (Big12).

Most want to go it seems mostly because of the basketball match ups and second for the increased revenues. Revenues should be first and we have the greatest upside in football

Yeah, and the Pac schools agreed to performance-based CFP payouts in 2024, so we'd get to keep our bowl money but wouldn't be cut in if UO, UW, or UU make the now 12 team playoffs. Revenue is still shared in the Big 12.

I am OK with no revenue sharing as I believe if you do more you should get more. It would spark investment by schools in the two big money making programs.

I really think Fisch is building a program that will compete at a high level but we need to pony up the cash. The Big 12 move would give us 12m more a year with more exposure so I love that. I just want us to dedicate a bunch of that revenue to building the football program

I want to salvage the PAC and I want us to continue to play the majority of our games against schools in the west.

But then again I wanted us to stay at GOAZCATS and I was wrong about that so.....

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:00 pm I want to salvage the PAC and I want us to continue to play the majority of our games against schools in the west.

Well then welcome to the exiting world of the G6 conference.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:00 pm I want to salvage the PAC and I want us to continue to play the majority of our games against schools in the west.

But then again I wanted us to stay at GOAZCATS and I was wrong about that so.....

I think that the majority of us would prefer a scenario where the Pac12 never had criminally poor leadership, our media deal was robust, including a majority of content on linear broadcasting, and we had the ability to entice other major schools away from their current conference affiliation. I love our rivalries in the West, and it will be sad to see them go. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done, and it is irreparable, in my opinion. The best we can do now is to save ourselves, and find the best option for long-term survival. It’s unfortunate that option won’t be in the Pac12, but, on the plus side, it will allow for the creation of a whole new set of rivals.

The thought of going to the Midwest and battling ice and snow (Pullman x10) against brands that are not as strong as most of the PAC is not inviting. The academic side bothers might as well but as was said the PAC brought this on itself and staying In a conference that has made poor decisions repeatedly is worse.

Might surprise some here:

From an economic and outcome performance,” Herbst-Lucke said, “there was no improvement.”

RELATED:

No jump in revenue. No drop in expenses or debt. No boost in football performance. No increase in general applications or quality applications. No spike in graduation rates or retention rates.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bulls/2 ... utType=amp

Interesting piece by Joel Klatt.

TucsonCat wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:26 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:00 pm I want to salvage the PAC and I want us to continue to play the majority of our games against schools in the west.

But then again I wanted us to stay at GOAZCATS and I was wrong about that so.....

I think that the majority of us would prefer a scenario where the Pac12 never had criminally poor leadership, our media deal was robust, including a majority of content on linear broadcasting, and we had the ability to entice other major schools away from their current conference affiliation. I love our rivalries in the West, and it will be sad to see them go. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done, and it is irreparable, in my opinion. The best we can do now is to save ourselves, and find the best option for long-term survival. It’s unfortunate that option won’t be in the Pac12, but, on the plus side, it will allow for the creation of a whole new set of rivals.

Agree but it is time, unfortunately, to leave for greener pastures.

If we move to the Big12 the one thing I will miss will be the PAC12 basketball tournament in Las Vegas. I have attended every tournament since it was moved to Vegas. If we end up in the Big12 we will have to settle for Cowtown (Kansas City).........Kansas will never agree to give up the home field advantage for the BBall tournament.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:04 pm Might surprise some here:

From an economic and outcome performance,” Herbst-Lucke said, “there was no improvement.”

RELATED:

No jump in revenue. No drop in expenses or debt. No boost in football performance. No increase in general applications or quality applications. No spike in graduation rates or retention rates.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bulls/2 ... utType=amp

No surprise but I doubt that most of these factors would be in play for AZ moving to the Big12.

For instance the article points out that ticket sales dropped for some teams changing conferences. In the case of switching to the Big12 our home attendance will almost surely increase (significantly for conference games). The reason being that the Big12 schools fanbases (TCU/TTech/Baylor/OSU) travel well....much better than their Pac12 counterparts.