Coach Rod

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:21 pm

chiefzona wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:What chief really ratcheted up the tool meter today.

Shit man, take a breather. sorry your boy stoops was too much of a headcase to run a D1 team.

Stoops was never my guy. Lol

I think that was UACats who was a Stoops fanboy.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:23 pm

chiefzona wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:My ideal coach for Arizona has to be defensive minded, recruit the west coast well, play a pro style offense and runs a 4-3 or 3-4. That would be first and foremost with me. No more effin OKGs, Zone Read Options and 3-3-5. All gimmicks.
And your record as a coach is what? Love, I mean absolutely love the losers who can't wait to pile on and say they were right when they had to eat their words LY as we won the South. You couldn't wait for this day could you Chief? Get lost already. Beyond pathetic.
I love you too DC. I'll be around for the buddy hug. I never hid my disdain for your Dad and RRs blind loyalty. They did well with Stoop's recruits and cookie' the bed with their own. I wish them much success back east. Tell Dad I said hi and he can call for advice anytime.
Stoops guys? That is so weak. Stoops never played Bondurant and doubtful if he even gets a sniff if Stoops is still the coach. KaDeem? He started Keola Antolin over the best rusher in our history???? He and Littrell will never live that down - ever. Tevis was a walk-on and RR put him on Scholi. If Stoops was still here Tevis would have never seen the field either. Scooby? Oh that's right, the one guy you wouldn't have offered a scholi to is the best player in the country. Other than that you're killing it.
Hell, I was happy to see Stoops go but he left some guys that RR had no choice but to utilize and he did that very well.

What??? So RR didn't have a choice as he had to play a guy like Bondurant that Stoops didn't play at all. Tevis was a walk-on. Hood was a walk-on. Flowers gets moved to LB because we didn't have a choice. I'll stick with just these guys for now - all of these guys were left by Stoops yet Casteel and his staff coached them up to where you're now trying to say that RR and company were lucky to have them? Scooby? You thought he was to small and there were better guys out there that we could have offered. So the coaching staff was good enough to coach these guys up and win 10 games LY and 8 each the first two seasons but they suck TY? That makes a lot of sense. It's not like Stoops left Casteel and company with a bunch of stud players. Everybody Stoops left us with was undersized and slow. Yet now they can't coach. Got it.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:30 pm

dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
AZarchery wrote:How mad is chief going to be when rich rod doesn't leave and the team is successful next year?

Define successful. Win 3 easy peasy cupcakes in the OOC and go 2-8 vs USC, UCLA and ASU?
And who won the South last year? It wasn't SC, it wasn't Ucla and it wasn't Assu. Your boys at SC haven't won the south yet. I can play the same game. Which is why your point is so stupid. We won 10 games LY and played in the Fiesta Bowl and you had us winning 7? Now you're acting like you were right all along and you weren't. Again, it's pathetic but by all means keep trying to make it look like it's not.

IF Scooby, Turituri and Ippolito were healthy TY and we still played like this then I could maybe see your point. But, that wasn't the case and instead you think it's the coaches and the system that suck. Yet those same coaches and that same system won us 10 games and Scooby was the best defensive player in the country LY. I'm not surprised but this is truly one of your weakest efforts and that's saying something.

RR cannot recruit well enough to keep the train rolling plus he has an anchor for a DC who he refuses to part Kirelawich is complete nonsense and should have been fired two years ago. Dews has been dismal and Ragle doesn't have a clue and that's why they have been outsourcing kicking and ST coaches. It's a joke. RR is a very good in game coach but as we have all witnessed this season, it's just not enough.
We lost all 3 starting LB's to injury. Hamilton who we were counting on decided he wanted to be with his girlfriend instead of playing football. He quit after one practice. One.

Fotu likes the lettuce a little to much or is that Casteel's fault as well? To Fotu's credit he's still here and is going to school. If he can stay off the lettuce long enough to get a clean bill of health he will be back on the team come spring. Coach K is prolly gone after this season according to those in the know and I don't have a problem with him as guys like Gilbert and others swear by him. Dews has been dismal? He's starting a true frosh at one corner and Neal is on his 3rd game as a starting corner? You're the joke.

Losing Scooby hurts badly and he cannot be replaced. Turituri (and especially Ippolito) are not so dominant or productive that they should be irreplaceable. Not in year 4.

Apparently they are, and it appears we have not done a good enough job of vetting all those "OKG's" we have been signing. To make matters worse, it appears we have a grand total of ONE LB committed for next year's class.

This defense is a dumpster fire... And it is not all due to injuries to Turituri & Ippolito.

As for undersized and slow, it seems this regime is following in the tradition of the prior one as far as defensive recruiting. As to walk-on's... We have a few getting meaningful minutes this year. Why weren't they offered scholarships?

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:31 pm

Yes DC....now they can't recruit nor coach. Remember I told you about teams seeing certain things a second time around? Gimmicks turn into gimmicks and good coaches get out coached by average coaches. The quality on the field is bad. We can all dance around and put lipstick on the pig like most homers have done yet, at the end of the day....the pig is still a pig with lipstick.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:36 pm

chiefzona wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
AZarchery wrote:

And who won the South last year? It wasn't SC, it wasn't Ucla and it wasn't Assu. Your boys at SC haven't won the south yet. I can play the same game. Which is why your point is so stupid. We won 10 games LY and played in the Fiesta Bowl and you had us winning 7? Now you're acting like you were right all along and you weren't. Again, it's pathetic but by all means keep trying to make it look like it's not.

IF Scooby, Turituri and Ippolito were healthy TY and we still played like this then I could maybe see your point. But, that wasn't the case and instead you think it's the coaches and the system that suck. Yet those same coaches and that same system won us 10 games and Scooby was the best defensive player in the country LY. I'm not surprised but this is truly one of your weakest efforts and that's saying something.

RR cannot recruit well enough to keep the train rolling plus he has an anchor for a DC who he refuses to part Kirelawich is complete nonsense and should have been fired two years ago. Dews has been dismal and Ragle doesn't have a clue and that's why they have been outsourcing kicking and ST coaches. It's a joke. RR is a very good in game coach but as we have all witnessed this season, it's just not enough.
We lost all 3 starting LB's to injury. Hamilton who we were counting on decided he wanted to be with his girlfriend instead of playing football. He quit after one practice. One.

Fotu likes the lettuce a little to much or is that Casteel's fault as well? To Fotu's credit he's still here and is going to school. If he can stay off the lettuce long enough to get a clean bill of health he will be back on the team come spring. Coach K is prolly gone after this season according to those in the know and I don't have a problem with him as guys like Gilbert and others swear by him. Dews has been dismal? He's starting a true frosh at one corner and Neal is on his 3rd game as a starting corner? You're the joke.

Coach K is gone after this season but should have been two years ago. Fotu ain't the only lettuce lover. Hard edge is soft green. Dews is dismal. Very little development.[/quote]

I didn't say he was the only lettuce user. I'm sure it's in the high percentile and not just here but in almost every school in the country, but the point remains the same.

I don't have a problem with loyalty especially when Coach K is the one making the sacrifice. His wife is back in WV taking care of family so he didn't have to come out here and take this job. He did it because he wanted to help and he has a sense of loyalty to Casteel and RR. Is it ideal? No, but I get it and knowing that he laid the foundation for whomever takes over for him is a good thing. Casteel needed somebody he could trust and Coach K was that guy.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:50 pm

I've figured Coach K was going to leave after this year just due to the family matters. I wonder who would be a replacement.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:51 pm

chiefzona wrote:Yes DC....now they can't recruit nor coach. Remember I told you about teams seeing certain things a second time around? Gimmicks turn into gimmicks and good coaches get out coached by average coaches. The quality on the field is bad. We can all dance around and put lipstick on the pig like most homers have done yet, at the end of the day....the pig is still a pig with lipstick.

He's in his 4th year. We beat Oregon twice, once with a QB that NOBODY in the country wanted - which to this day is still the single greatest feat I've ever seen. Not only that but we won 8 games with a QB that wouldn't get a snap in most turkey bowl games. Yet he can't coach? Good one.

Then you have a guy like Scooby that nobody wanted either except Sac State and he wins every major award you can win and those same coaches are using gimmicks? Casteel has been using the 3-3-5 his entire coaching career so to say it's the 2nd time around is just stupid on your part. Everybody knew about it before he got here and there was plenty of film out there on how he used it.

So is Whittingham a good coach or average coach? Last year he said they got out coached. He's 0-3 vs RR. Every team that we beat with Denker as QB got out coached because they all tried to stop the run and force Denker to throw and couldn't.

If we were healthy then I could see your point but we're not and so it's apples and oranges. Like I said, you're the guy who's been waiting and waiting to say "see I told you so" and you have nothing to back it up? I can say that because he went 8-5, 8-5 and 10-4 (won the South- toughest division in all of college football) with what was for the most part healthy teams. This year it hasn't been healthy at all and now it's because he can't recruit and he can't coach either? That makes a lot of sense. It really does.

AZarchery · Post by **AZarchery** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:51 pm

chiefzona wrote:Yes DC....now they can't recruit nor coach. Remember I told you about teams seeing certain things a second time around? Gimmicks turn into gimmicks and good coaches get out coached by average coaches. The quality on the field is bad. We can all dance around and put lipstick on the pig like most homers have done yet, at the end of the day....the pig is still a pig with lipstick.

What about a 3rd time around, like when we won the south?

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:52 pm

dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
AZarchery wrote:

And who won the South last year? It wasn't SC, it wasn't Ucla and it wasn't Assu. Your boys at SC haven't won the south yet. I can play the same game. Which is why your point is so stupid. We won 10 games LY and played in the Fiesta Bowl and you had us winning 7? Now you're acting like you were right all along and you weren't. Again, it's pathetic but by all means keep trying to make it look like it's not.

IF Scooby, Turituri and Ippolito were healthy TY and we still played like this then I could maybe see your point. But, that wasn't the case and instead you think it's the coaches and the system that suck. Yet those same coaches and that same system won us 10 games and Scooby was the best defensive player in the country LY. I'm not surprised but this is truly one of your weakest efforts and that's saying something.

RR cannot recruit well enough to keep the train rolling plus he has an anchor for a DC who he refuses to part Kirelawich is complete nonsense and should have been fired two years ago. Dews has been dismal and Ragle doesn't have a clue and that's why they have been outsourcing kicking and ST coaches. It's a joke. RR is a very good in game coach but as we have all witnessed this season, it's just not enough.
We lost all 3 starting LB's to injury. Hamilton who we were counting on decided he wanted to be with his girlfriend instead of playing football. He quit after one practice. One.

Fotu likes the lettuce a little to much or is that Casteel's fault as well? To Fotu's credit he's still here and is going to school. If he can stay off the lettuce long enough to get a clean bill of health he will be back on the team come spring. Coach K is prolly gone after this season according to those in the know and I don't have a problem with him as guys like Gilbert and others swear by him. Dews has been dismal? He's starting a true frosh at one corner and Neal is on his 3rd game as a starting corner? You're the joke.
Coach K is gone after this season but should have been two years ago. Fotu ain't the only lettuce lover. Hard edge is soft green. Dews is dismal. Very little development.

I don't have a problem with loyalty especially when Coach K is the one making the sacrifice. His wife is back in WV taking care of family so he didn't have to come out here and take this job. He did it because he wanted to help and he has a sense of loyalty to Casteel and RR. Is it ideal? No, but I get it and knowing that he laid the foundation for whomever takes over for him is a good thing. Casteel needed somebody he could trust and Coach K was that guy.[/quote]

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:56 pm

We are 17-17 in conference play under Rich Rod, 2-8 against the top 3 teams in the South (with 2 more to play in the coming 3 weeks).

We seem to be good for one really big win per season (although last season we did have 2). Hopefully we do this season as well; we have 3 big chances coming up.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:59 pm

dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:Yes DC....now they can't recruit nor coach. Remember I told you about teams seeing certain things a second time around? Gimmicks turn into gimmicks and good coaches get out coached by average coaches. The quality on the field is bad. We can all dance around and put lipstick on the pig like most homers have done yet, at the end of the day....the pig is still a pig with lipstick.
He's in his 4th year. We beat Oregon twice, once with a QB that NOBODY in the country wanted - which to this day is still the single greatest feat I've ever seen. Not only that but we won 8 games with a QB that would get a snap in most turkey bowl games. Yet he can't coach? Good one.

Then you have a guy like Scooby that nobody wanted either except Sac State and he wins every major ward you can win and those same coaches are using gimmicks? Casteel has been using the 3-3-5 his entire coaching career so to say it's the 2nd time around is just stupid on your part. Everybody knew about it before he got here and there was plenty of film out there on how he used it.

So is Whittingham a good coach or average coach? Last year he said they got out coached. He's 0-3 vs RR. Every team that we beat with Denker as QB got out coached because they all tried to stop the run and force Denker to throw and couldn't.

If we were healthy then I could see your point but we're not and so it's apples and oranges. Like I said, you're the guy who's been waiting and waiting to say "see I told you so" and you have nothing to back it up? I can say that because he went 8-5, 8-5 and 10-4 (won the South- toughest division in all of college football) with what was for the most part healthy teams. This year it hasn't been healthy at all and now it's because he can't recruit and he can't coach either? That makes a lot of sense. It really does.

I was talking about Anu. Roll rights....DC's have all adjusted to RRs offense. Sark was 2-1 vs RR. Mora 4-0 and Graham 2-1. Big deal though. Average coaches. 2-8 vs UCLA, USC and ASU. 3-12 vs ORE,STAN, USC, UCLA and ASU. Not very good for an above average in game coach who struggles with west coast recruiting. What does that tell you?

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:02 pm

HarveySpectre wrote:
Losing Scooby hurts badly and he cannot be replaced. Turituri (and especially Ippolito) are not so dominant or productive that they should be irreplaceable. Not in year 4.

Apparently they are, and it appears we have not done a good enough job of vetting all those "OKG's" we have been signing. To make matters worse, it appears we have a grand total of ONE LB committed for next year's class.

This defense is a dumpster fire... And it is not all due to injuries to Turituri & Ippolito.

As for undersized and slow, it seems this regime is following in the tradition of the prior one as far as defensive recruiting. As to walk-on's... We have a few getting meaningful minutes this year. Why weren't they offered scholarships?

Scooby made everybody else better because of his ability and I would think that nobody would argue that point? Who was 2nd in TFL's LY after Scooby (29)? Parks with 13 followed by Ippolito (6.5), Gilbert(5.5) and Turituri(5). Of the guys coming back who was the leading tackler after Scooby? Parks, Ippolito, Gilbert and Turituri. Of the guys coming back who had the most sacks after Scooby(14)? Gilbert and Turitur with 3 each. So of the 5 leading defensive players we had LY only 2 are healthy in Parks and Gilbert.

Our leading tackler TY is Parks with 51, followed by Allah, Neal and Magloire. Parks is the only one that has played every game. 20 different players have at least 10 tackles on the year. 30 with 5 or more. Our leading tackler LY was Scooby with 163 total tackles. The 4 guys mentioned above beat Scooby out by less than 10 total tackles.

So LY we had a total of 59 TFL's amongst the 5 players (98 as a team) mentioned above and TY we have Parks and Gilbert with 3.5 each and Turituri with 2. For those of you scoring at home that's 9 with 3 games left. As a team TY we have 45.

LY in sacks we had a total of 20 amongst Scooby, Gilbert and Turituri and 38 as a team. TY we have 17 as a total defense. Banda with 3 and Worthy with 2.5 lead the way.

You could argue that the 3 guys we could least afford to lose on this entire team were certainly Scooby and any combination of Parks, Gilbert, Turituri and Ippolito. We lost 3 of the 5 most important players on this D and 3 of the 5 best players on this D, including the single most important player. But it's all about scheme, gimmicks and coaches.

dc4azcats · Post by **dc4azcats** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:10 pm

chiefzona wrote:
dc4azcats wrote:
chiefzona wrote:Yes DC....now they can't recruit nor coach. Remember I told you about teams seeing certain things a second time around? Gimmicks turn into gimmicks and good coaches get out coached by average coaches. The quality on the field is bad. We can all dance around and put lipstick on the pig like most homers have done yet, at the end of the day....the pig is still a pig with lipstick.
He's in his 4th year. We beat Oregon twice, once with a QB that NOBODY in the country wanted - which to this day is still the single greatest feat I've ever seen. Not only that but we won 8 games with a QB that would get a snap in most turkey bowl games. Yet he can't coach? Good one.

Then you have a guy like Scooby that nobody wanted either except Sac State and he wins every major ward you can win and those same coaches are using gimmicks? Casteel has been using the 3-3-5 his entire coaching career so to say it's the 2nd time around is just stupid on your part. Everybody knew about it before he got here and there was plenty of film out there on how he used it.

So is Whittingham a good coach or average coach? Last year he said they got out coached. He's 0-3 vs RR. Every team that we beat with Denker as QB got out coached because they all tried to stop the run and force Denker to throw and couldn't.

If we were healthy then I could see your point but we're not and so it's apples and oranges. Like I said, you're the guy who's been waiting and waiting to say "see I told you so" and you have nothing to back it up? I can say that because he went 8-5, 8-5 and 10-4 (won the South- toughest division in all of college football) with what was for the most part healthy teams. This year it hasn't been healthy at all and now it's because he can't recruit and he can't coach either? That makes a lot of sense. It really does.
I was talking about Anu. Roll rights....DC's have all adjusted to RRs offense. Sark was 2-1 vs RR. Mora 4-0 and Graham 2-1. Big deal though. Average coaches. 2-8 vs UCLA, USC and ASU. 3-12 vs ORE,STAN, USC, UCLA and ASU. Not very good for an above average in game coach who struggles with west coast recruiting. What does that tell you?

Sure they have. The same DC's who knew that Denker could only throw going to his left?

What does that tell me? He won the South division that was easily the toughest division in America but also the toughest the South has been since it's inception. So if he's such an average coach compared to the other coaches in the South why didn't they win it LY?

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:19 pm

chiefzona wrote:Sark was 2-1 vs RR. Mora 4-0 and Graham 2-1. Big deal though. Average coaches. 2-8 vs UCLA, USC and ASU. 3-12 vs ORE,STAN, USC, UCLA and ASU. Not very good for an above average in game coach who struggles with west coast recruiting. What does that tell you?

Honestly, with what you posted it tells you nothing. You have no context. Sure post about year 4 and 5, but 0-3 is about useless to compare to. There is no guarantee that the best college football coach around could have done better those first three years at Arizona than RR.

I just like to remind myself that I would take RR over Kiffen or Sark any day!

carolinacat · Post by **carolinacat** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:57 pm

All these "hot shot" coaches like Kiffen and Sark really never proved themselves under tough conditions. RR won at WV when the program was declining. He established his own identity and deserves a ton of credit. He may have maxed out at Arizona, unless he can start tapping into some better talent.

It's easy to drive fast like Kiffen and Sark when you're given the keys to a Ferrari. Big deal. Every coach in America could finish 8-4 at USC or Tennessee given the talent pool to recruit. Give me a coach who knows how to identify talent, puts individual players in the right spots and wins.

Look at what Joe Tiller did at Wyoming and then at Purdue. Purdue!! They beat the crap out of Mackovic's team back in the lost decade. Now they're the bathroom floor of the Big 10.

If I'm Byrne, I'm scouring the Mid-American Conference, Conference USA and Mt. West for a coach who simply knows how to squeeze every ounce out of a player and then put the rest of your resources into recruiting. Urban Meyer's path started at Bowling Green, through Utah before hitting pay dirt at UF & OSU. You don't need to hit a home run at the press conference, just a solid single or double. The honeymoon after a coach is hired doesn't last long.

Salty · Post by **Salty** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:17 pm

chiefzona wrote:My ideal coach for Arizona has to be defensive minded, recruit the west coast well, play a pro style offense and runs a 4-3 or 3-4. That would be first and foremost with me. No more effin OKGs, Zone Read Options and 3-3-5. All gimmicks.

The pro style offense is a gimmick now. 90% of high schools use the spread.

The spread is a reality and is the future, whether you like it or not.

This is Arizona, gentlemen. 17-17 or whatever, DURING A REBUILDING PERIOD, is phenomenal. This year has certainly been a disappointment, but it's downright short sighted to say that we would be any better for the next 3 years with a new coach.

I wouldn't be sad to see RR go because of his apparent lack of passion as a coach of this program and some of his frustrating losses. But let's not fool ourselves, if he did leave, this program would get significantly worse better it gets better.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:12 am

The spread is fine. The Zone Read Option is a gimmick and needs to go. That's just my two cents. One could write a book on its detriment to QBs.

Salty · Post by **Salty** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:04 am

chiefzona wrote:The spread is fine. The Zone Read Option is a gimmick and needs to go. That's just my two cents. One could write a book on its detriment to QBs.

The read option...?

Have you even watched Arizona play recently? Yes, the read option is an element to this offense, but this isn't George Tech for christs sake! The offense is very dynamic and have been extremely diverse... I think we actually pass more than we run too.

There's nothing gimmicky about the offense at all. This type of offense is run by overwhelming majority of high school, and all college programs have some sort of spread/read option in the playbook.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:21 am

Apparently the Read Option is too much for Any since they are going to simplify the playbook for him. Pretty sure Randall has a limited playbook too, or at least he did when he first started playing meaningful minutes.

Maybe not so much for Denker, who wasn't ashamed to say he was the smartest guy on the team.

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:32 pm

Bob Kemp had a guy from a Richmond newspaper. Rich Rod and Smart are the guys he says he is hearing for V Tech

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:01 pm

Salty wrote:
chiefzona wrote:The spread is fine. The Zone Read Option is a gimmick and needs to go. That's just my two cents. One could write a book on its detriment to QBs.
The read option...?

Have you even watched Arizona play recently? Yes, the read option is an element to this offense, but this isn't George Tech for christs sake! The offense is very dynamic and have been extremely diverse... I think we actually pass more than we run too.

There's nothing gimmicky about the offense at all. This type of offense is run by overwhelming majority of high school, and all college programs have some sort of spread/read option in the playbook.

You're a piece of work Salty. Your name suits you. I ask that you first explain what the Zone Read Option is and how RR utilizes it. What are the QBs taught and why does it take awhile for QBs to actually get it? I mean if everyone is running it in HS, then how come it's hard to pick up at Arizona? What makes it dynamic? How many college teams actually run it?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:03 pm

chiefzona wrote:The spread is fine. The Zone Read Option is a gimmick and needs to go. That's just my two cents. One could write a book on its detriment to QBs.

Indeed. Marcus Mariota may never recover.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:11 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
chiefzona wrote:The spread is fine. The Zone Read Option is a gimmick and needs to go. That's just my two cents. One could write a book on its detriment to QBs.
Indeed. Marcus Mariota may never recover.

Neither may Anu. Good example though. Got anymore? Can you explain its weaknesses? Strengths? Also, Oregon's read option is less complex than Arizona's Zone Read Option. Care to discuss the differences? What do you see on the sidelines with calls into the QB? What's different?

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:21 pm

chiefzona wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
chiefzona wrote:The spread is fine. The Zone Read Option is a gimmick and needs to go. That's just my two cents. One could write a book on its detriment to QBs.
Indeed. Marcus Mariota may never recover.

Neither may Anu. Good example though. Got anymore? Can you explain its weaknesses? Strengths? Also, Oregon's read option is less complex than Arizona's Zone Read Option. Care to discuss the differences? What do you see on the sidelines with calls into the QB? What's different?

Got it, Chief. Playing the old "I know more about football than you" card, so therefore "I must be right". You probably do know more about the nuances of the game than a vast majority on this forum. You undoubtedly know a whole lot more than me.

But I am quite certain you don't know more than RR, or Casteel for that matter. And your selection of Orgeron as an "ideal" head coach doesn't exactly do wonders for your credibility as an objective expert.

Most are unhappy with the team. I sure as hell am, and want to see some changes on D. But everyone has a right to an opinion... and that includes those who don't agree with you.

catinfl · Post by **catinfl** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:25 pm

You're questioning how RR uses the zone read? You do know he is the one that created it right?

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:38 pm

catinfl wrote:You're questioning how RR uses the zone read? You do know he is the one that created it right?

No. RR is a genius with it. Slow that roll CFL. I'm questioning the use of it altogether. It hinders the QBs timing and a QB has too think too hard reading the ends and making the decision that is correct to RR. See, he badgers them consistently with perfection even though he can vanilla it all and make it easier.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:12 pm

chiefzona wrote:
catinfl wrote:You're questioning how RR uses the zone read? You do know he is the one that created it right?

No. RR is a genius with it. Slow that roll CFL. I'm questioning the use of it altogether. It hinders the QBs timing and a QB has too think too hard reading the ends and making the decision that is correct to RR. See, he badgers them consistently with perfection even though he can vanilla it all and make it easier.

Yeah I imagine he vanillas it all by eliminating it all together. Anu isn't a threat to run this year. When that is the case is there a reason to even run a read option?

Btw in all your smartassedness BS in your last post you didn't mention why the zone read did hurt Mariota. I'm an idiot. Explain it to me like I'm a child.

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:23 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
chiefzona wrote:
catinfl wrote:You're questioning how RR uses the zone read? You do know he is the one that created it right?

No. RR is a genius with it. Slow that roll CFL. I'm questioning the use of it altogether. It hinders the QBs timing and a QB has too think too hard reading the ends and making the decision that is correct to RR. See, he badgers them consistently with perfection even though he can vanilla it all and make it easier.
Yeah I imagine he vanillas it all by eliminating it all together. Anu isn't a threat to run this year. When that is the case is there a reason to even run a read option?

Btw in all your smartassedness BS in your last post you didn't mention why the zone read did hurt Mariota. I'm an idiot. Explain it to me like I'm a child.

I'm losing you Choo Choo. I love your name as it was mine growing up and in no way am I belittling you. If like to hear your take on what I asked. If you or any other poster on this board wants to meet for a beer and discuss Arizona football or football in general for that matter, I am all for it. Just let me know. I'm an open book and have met with a few posters in the past. I've always been a better speaker than a poster and love talking football. If you guys want to follow me on Twitter and shoot the breeze on there, @chiefzona1472 or @athletearmory. Thanks Choo Choo

uacat540 · Post by **uacat540** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:35 pm

So it seems like we have all relegated ourselves to the fact he is leaving. Cruising the VT boards, its amazing how many people don't actually want him. And they also think that Bud Foster is hanging around. I highly doubt RR is going to leave Casteel and his staff behind.

At this point-if Rich decides to leave, it shows his true colors. Byrne picked him out of the Michigan disaster, gave him a hell of a contract, fought for him left and right and then decides back to the east coast at the minute things go wrong if how he wants to handle things. Id rather find someone who is willing to really work the region for recruits and work to sell Arizona. All we have heard from Rich Rod is "Why Not Us" when it should be "Arizona is here".

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:35 pm

Holy shit everyone needs to take a step back from the ledge. RR has made this team respectable in his short tenure here after the two disasters before him.

Shit happens, we had good luck last year and we've had bad luck last year.

What amazes me about Arizona fans is that most of them take any sign of an uptick in our football program and then take on the mentality they do with our basketball program. We were a bottom of the barrel program that is now fair to middling. You saw one extreme last year and you're seeing the other extreme this year.

I swear half the posters this season have degraded into rambling lunatics.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:40 pm

We're not respectable right now. We're getting blown out regularly in 2003-2005 style.

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:43 pm

And like I said this is the other extreme we're seeing this year, the extremely bad. We're not as bad a team as we've been showing this season.

Just like last year we weren't as good as what we showed winning the p12 south.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:45 pm

uacat540 wrote:So it seems like we have all relegated ourselves to the fact he is leaving. Cruising the VT boards, its amazing how many people don't actually want him. And they also think that Bud Foster is hanging around. I highly doubt RR is going to leave Casteel and his staff behind.

At this point-if Rich decides to leave, it shows his true colors. Byrne picked him out of the Michigan disaster, gave him a hell of a contract, fought for him left and right and then decides back to the east coast at the minute things go wrong if how he wants to handle things. Id rather find someone who is willing to really work the region for recruits and work to sell Arizona. All we have heard from Rich Rod is "Why Not Us" when it should be "Arizona is here".

As I have said before, I think Arizona fans want RichRod more than those of any of the schools who have been rumored. Despite the angst and frustration, very few want to see him leave.

I suspect WVU might be the exception... I do not know if Mountaineer fans would admit to wanting him back, but I suspect they would be very happy to have him.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:47 pm

Fishclamps wrote:And like I said this is the other extreme we're seeing this year, the extremely bad. We're not as bad a team as we've been showing this season.

Just like last year we weren't as good as what we showed winning the p12 south.

Season-to-Date I think we actually are. We have beaten 2 P-12 doormats, and only had a chance in 1 of our 4 conference losses. But we have 3 more weeks to prove your assertion above correct.

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:01 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:And like I said this is the other extreme we're seeing this year, the extremely bad. We're not as bad a team as we've been showing this season.

Just like last year we weren't as good as what we showed winning the p12 south.
Season-to-Date I think we actually are. We have beaten 2 P-12 doormats, and only had a chance in 1 of our 4 conference losses. But we have 3 more weeks to prove your assertion above correct.

All I'm saying is we caught some lucky breaks last year and we've caught some bad ones this year. I don't think either season is indicative of what kind of team we are, and in reality the Wildcats probably belong right in the middle all things being even.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:17 pm

I dunno,beat ourselves or not, we were flat out beat against UCLA, 'Furd, and Washington. Didn't see the Waazzu game but apparently we were schizo there too.

Hard to say, "we caught some bad breaks" getting blown out in 3 of 4 losses.

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:24 pm

Caught some bad breaks at the beginning of the season and even during training camp is what I should have said. It's all just snowballed from there

carolinacat · Post by **carolinacat** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:27 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:I dunno,beat ourselves or not, we were flat out beat against UCLA, 'Furd, and Washington. Didn't see the Waazzu game but apparently we were schizo there too.

Hard to say, "we caught some bad breaks" getting blown out in 3 of 4 losses.

I think bad breaks applies to the multitude of injuries. Most teams can't handle a tidal wave of injuries unless you have incredible depth, which Arizona does not. We were shaky on defense before losing a ton of guys. Throw in injuries to your top RB and QB and you have the recipe for a lot of blow outs. Leadership is lost as well.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:36 pm

Fishclamps wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:And like I said this is the other extreme we're seeing this year, the extremely bad. We're not as bad a team as we've been showing this season.

Just like last year we weren't as good as what we showed winning the p12 south.
Season-to-Date I think we actually are. We have beaten 2 P-12 doormats, and only had a chance in 1 of our 4 conference losses. But we have 3 more weeks to prove your assertion above correct.
All I'm saying is we caught some lucky breaks last year and we've caught some bad ones this year. I don't think either season is indicative of what kind of team we are, and in reality the Wildcats probably belong right in the middle all things being even.

I think this is both fair and accurate.

We are 17-17 in P-12 over the past 4 seasons, and I think we are what our record says we are overall - in the context of the RR era.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:10 am

Lots of opinions. Good.

I think RR is probably one of the best established coaches a school like AZ can ever get. AZ football just doesn't have a rich tradition or resume. Some accomplishments, but...

We had one very successful coach in Pac era who achieved more notable accomplishments by launching from AZ (Smith). We halso had Dick Tomey.

I actually hope RR stays. I feel AZ's odds of achieving something better with him than starting over, getting a mid-major HC to come in and make their bones here. Always the chance IF they do, they launch from AZ to another school. Don't see a MORE established coach than RR coming to AZ, staying at AZ and odds of succeeding at AZ If RR leaves. Plus I like Rich Rod the person. I hope I'm wrong about the odds of.

It just hasn't happened yet in nearly 37 years on AZ being in the PAC. So why I go with the odds I do.

In terms of ranking AZ HC's in Pac10/12 era, RR has done pretty well. He's not perfect, but even with the downsides to this season, RR compares well to other AZ HC's in Pac era in LEAGUE Play:

Pac10/12 era AZ HC's. LEAGUE play only. Eliminate those who factor whimpy non-conference play. Compare ONLY conference play winning percentages. Compare entire record while at AZ. Also compare those HC's with best winning percentages to after their first four seasons for apples to apples (some didn't make to fourth season or in PAC era)

Tony Mason
7-7 .500
Larry Smith
30-21-2 .585
Larry Smith First 4 seasons
15-14-2 .516
Dick Tomey
60-49-4 .549 62-51
Dick Tomey First 4 seasons
17-13-3 .561
John Mackovic
3-13 .188
Mike Stoops
27-38 .415
Rich Rodriguez
17-16 .515

Even with AZ having a terrible conference play season so far, Rich Rod stacks up pretty well. In fact pretty much same as Larry Smith after four seasons. RR's fourth season not over, but does include his 2-4 conference record this season.

I Do have a question for ChiefZona. Soon after RR was hired at AZ and before first snap of 2012 season, there was someone on boards and/or twitter (maybe other places blog?) saying RR should be on the Hot Seat. Before his first AZ snap took place. They were saying almost verbatim they wanted an HC hired at AZ who was/ran:

defensive minded, recruit the west coast well, play a pro style offense and runs a 4-3 or 3-4

Was that any chance you? Just curious. Person was clear they did not want RR hired at AZ mainly because of his schemes. Or, maybe you or some of you know who that person was...

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:42 am

Razors edge- that was not me. I would think that would have been UACATS

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:47 am

uacats thought RR was an a-hole because he took away some of his privileges from the Stoops era, he cut the walk on kicker with autism, and getting rid of Adam Hall. (among other things)

Don't remember him getting into schemes at all.

He was most famous for caliing Ka'Deem Carey "Tucson good".

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:22 pm

Merkin wrote:Scheer frustrated with the entire team:

http://www.scout.com/college/arizona/st ... r-wildcats" target="_blank

If I were to adopt the Scheer m.o. (at least on Twitter), I would mock this. About time he commented on the team, rather than on the fans who comment on the team (and who he now echoes).

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:34 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:uacats thought RR was an a-hole because he took away some of his privileges from the Stoops era, he cut the walk on kicker with autism, and getting rid of Adam Hall. (among other things)

Don't remember him getting into schemes at all.

He was most famous for caliing Ka'Deem Carey "Tucson good".

Adam Hall wasn't healthy after suffering two ACL back to back.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:13 pm

gumby wrote:
Merkin wrote:Scheer frustrated with the entire team:

http://www.scout.com/college/arizona/st ... r-wildcats" target="_blank
If I were to adopt the Scheer m.o. (at least on Twitter), I would mock this. About time he commented on the team, rather than on the fans who comment on the team (and who he now echoes).

I am unaware that he actually possesses the ability to have an actual sports related opinion...that isn't mocking someone or something out there.

The "experts" have really just become a crew of "told ya so" and "heard it here first" types.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:31 pm

Olsondogg wrote:
gumby wrote:
Merkin wrote:Scheer frustrated with the entire team:

http://www.scout.com/college/arizona/st ... r-wildcats" target="_blank
If I were to adopt the Scheer m.o. (at least on Twitter), I would mock this. About time he commented on the team, rather than on the fans who comment on the team (and who he now echoes).
I am unaware that he actually possesses the ability to have an actual sports related opinion...that isn't mocking someone or something out there.

The "experts" have really just become a crew of "told ya so" and "heard it here first" types.

Or the "experts" are overly vague and when something happens and they say "told ya so" and someone brings it to their attention that they have zero recollection of being told anything the "experts" immediately belittle them about it.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:35 pm

That too.

Plus adding "humorous" posts disparaging players that they don't think are "good" based on their expertise on what it is to be a college basketball player/coach.

Cause they aren't going to not have a personality and those "humorous" posts are downright hilarious.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:55 pm

So your saying everyone is trying to be Colin cowherd

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:33 pm

Quote from Byrne's email today

In addition, you’ve likely heard Coach Rodriguez’s name mentioned with some of the coaching vacancies around the country. It’s a great reflection on our program and Coach Rodriguez, and he knows that we want him to be our coach. Meanwhile, it’s important that we stay focused on the remainder of this season, which starts by going up to Los Angeles and playing well against USC.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:48 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:Quote from Byrne's email today

In addition, you’ve likely heard Coach Rodriguez’s name mentioned with some of the coaching vacancies around the country. It’s a great reflection on our program and Coach Rodriguez, and he knows that we want him to be our coach. Meanwhile, it’s important that we stay focused on the remainder of this season, which starts by going up to Los Angeles and playing well against USC.

That is a very interesting and carefully crafted message...

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