2015 Arizona Diamondbacks

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:25 pm

DBacks take Swanson.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:56 pm

That's the safe pick and I'm not mad at it. Kind of an unlucky year to not have the first pick though without a dominant starter like David Price, Gerrit Cole, or Steven Strasburg, or a game changing position player like Bryce Harper or Carlos Correa. All those in very recent years and there has only been one guy in the last 7 or 8 years who hasnt turned out to be a huge player

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:44 pm

Six picks til 43. Kirby and Matuella both available, would be nice if either are available

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:07 pm

Took Alex Young LHP TCU

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:54 am

Saw that. I really liked Matuella, but it looks like his elbow injury scared everyone off in the first two rounds. He was a risky pick for sure, but I felt this was the draft to take a chance on a guy like him with a 2nd round pick. If he pans out he is a Josh Beckett type of arm. I guess once he slipped into the second, teams were worried about his signability. Sign for 2nd round money or redshirt a year from the tommy john, rehab, come back and show you are healthy and get first round money plus a Duke degree if things don't work out.

Kirby went a few picks before the Dbacks picked at 43, he would have been nice. From what I read on Young, he has a low 90s fastball and the potential for a plus slider. MLB network was saying he is a two pitch pitcher and as a result will be a bullpen guy. Not feeling that, hopefully the Diamondbacks have plans to take their time with him so he can develop an average changeup and maybe he can be a nice number 3 or 4 starter down the road.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:48 pm

DBacks take pitchers in round 3-6 then a catcher then a ss then another pitcher then a cf.

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:35 am

Drafting bullpen arms early. Ooof.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:17 pm

Through 30 picks the DBacks have drafted 14 pitchers and 5 catchers.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:00 am

It's getting close to the point where MLB needs to stop letting fans vote for the all star game. Let players and managers vote for the starters, and the manager of each league can pick his reserves. Let the fans keep the ability to vote for the last man in.

Goldy hitting 349 17HR 49 RBI with a 1.134 OPS
Gonzalez 318 11HR 39 RBI with a .970 OPS

It really isn't even close. Both are elite fielders with Goldy being one of the best base stealers/runners for a power hitter his size in baseball. And Gonzalez had like 7 or 8 of his homers in that first week and some change of the season. Since then, abysmal power numbers. And the whole debacle with what is going on with the Royals having starters at 7 positions and their not so good players still being among the leaders. Yeah, it's time.

Dbacks are now 5 games under 500 and you can feel this club getting into that danger zone. The schedule from here through the All Star game isn't too kind. I don't think anyone expected them to be a contender, but playing somewhere near 500 ball is what I wanted. Luckily our bats are keeping us in and winning some games, because Collmenter is just about done as a starting pitcher and he is our number 1. Three starters with ERA's over 5.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:48 pm

Mother fucker!

What the shit is this Arroyo trade?

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:18 pm

Sarver pulled this "trade 1sts for cash" bullshit for years and set the franchise back by 5 years.

Stewart was on TV and made no fucking sense withy this at all. I'm fucking furious! Stewart basically admitted its to only save money. Admitted INF is utility without much power. Well, shit, let's just fucking throw away a 19 year old, highly regarded pitcher to pocket some fucking cash.

I'm beyond annoyed. I'm losing my mind over this shit.

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:41 pm

Organization is straight trash because of the ownership and the front office. An absolute laughing stock of the league.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:37 pm

Good grief. I'm tired of this franchise dealing top pitching prospects and prospects in general for dog sh*t returns. Pay the G damn buyout and just live w the fact you have to sometimes pay for the prior sins of others.

This franchise doesn't seem to have any direction, par for the course I guess.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:39 pm

How long before Goldy gets traded for a middle reliever? You know it's coming

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:52 pm

Somebody tweeted about asking an unnamed front office executive about that trade, the exec's response was "LOL"

Unless the dbacks are going to use that 9 million they saved on a top of the line starter in the very near future, this is one of the dumbest trades I have ever seen. Unless I am forgetting someone, the only 2016 free agent pitchers that are big name guys are David Price, Smardzija, and Zimmerman. The Nats have a crowded rotation so he is the only guy I could see being moved out of those three, and then the question becomes, who we going to give up for him? You wait until free agency, to get any of those dudes, then the 9 mill becomes only 4.5. Unless theres a stud a team out of contention will trade and we sign him to an extension.

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:19 pm

The team isn't even good enough to be thinking about making deadline deals or playoff pushes.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:19 pm

That's correct, but doesn't preclude you from trading for a starter that has more than this season on his contract and locking him up with an extension. Cueto is a guy someone mentioned on another site. Not likely, but a little less competition to land him because teams looking for help at the deadline may not want to be on the hook for salary past this season.

At any rate, I dont see anything like that happening becauae we arent loaded with assets. Hell, we just traded one away that could have gotten a lot more in return mow and probably more in a few more years. We are going to have to move a solid big leaguer like Pollock and one of our top minor league arms to even start that convo with cincinatti

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:03 pm

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:37 pm

This Dbacks club is pretty helter skelter. Drop 6 then win 4 of 5 and winning tonight. Frustrating.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:27 pm

The DBacks are laying it on the Phillys tonight.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:24 am

5 games back and a month and a half left in the season. Dodgers are in full collapse mode, Giants are not, but playing below 500 ball in August and do not seem to want the division either. Padres coming on strong just behind us. Upcoming schedule isn't unbearable. For us to have any shot I think we need to take 3 of 4 from the Cardinals at home and maintain this momentum. Not impossible, but this team is too up and down, and that's due to the lack of a top of the line starter and a very tough #2. Goldy needs to turn this mini dry spell and put this team on his back.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:39 am

Well, that 4 game set with St. Louis was fun. smh

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:11 pm

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:53 am

azgreg wrote:Well, that 4 game set with St. Louis was fun. smh

What have we dropped, 7 of the last 8? And the Dodgers are on a roll. Time to just finish the season on a positive note, be careful not to overwork the young arms and pray for no major arm injuries.

The free agent market is going to be dry for offensive players. We don't need bats, but that just means other clubs will have more cash for starting pitching. Several quality arms but I doubt any end up here and we end up overpaying for a number 3 type guy.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:11 pm

The Dbacks hit into a triple play today.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:32 pm

Looks like the Yankees are coming to town next season.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/m ... fdd66055b8

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:21 am

I didn't know the teams did this. Pretty funny.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:55 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:Goldschmidt continues to own the Dodgers.

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/nation ... ng-dodgers

lol

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:59 pm

Goldschmidt may own the Dodgers, but the Dodgers own the DBacks. The Dodgers win the season 13-6.

Coop Cat · Post by **Coop Cat** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:07 am

Coop Cat · Post by **Coop Cat** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:30 pm

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:40 pm

Gold Gloves for Goldschmidt and Pollock.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:18 pm

Those new fucking unis are about the worst fucking thing ever.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:08 pm

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:09 pm

LETS GO

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:30 pm

Dang. Wonder if they gave him the 6th year

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Mind blown.

And The new unis look like garbage in the pics, but I thought the same for the last ones too so I guess ill reserve judgment til they are on the field. Too much of that NFL/ncaa flair to them from what I can see though, ugh. But I guess there isnt many better organizations to take that jump. Little tradition and history, color and uniform changes have been the norm. I hated the Seahawks unis first season now they are among my favorite once i got over the radical changes.

Now on second look, i dont mind the white and red, grey and red, and black and red. The only ones i saw before were the blue trim ones.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:39 pm

6/195

Sounds like Cueto turned down the D-Backs and they had to up their offer to Greinke

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:23 pm

Sounding like 6/206

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:21 am

Cueto is going to get close to Greinke's money anyhow, especially with him holding out, teams are going to get a little desperate. Greinke is clearly the better pitcher, and honestly, I trust Greinke's health WAY more that Cueto's despite the 3-year age difference.

Greinke has only finished in the top 10 in his league in innings pitched three times, last year was his highest ranking (4th). He has without a doubt the best pitching mechanics of any starting pitcher in baseball right now and does not have a violent throwing motion. I'm not sure I recall Greinke ever having any major arm issues. And he has become one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball despite the slight dip in velocity. He is pitching smarter now and relying on movement and his secondary pitches more, and he has elite control of all of them. His change up is becoming his most thrown secondary offering and is his best pitch right now. He is essentially doing what Greg Maddux did, he just figured it out about 3 or 4 years later in age than Maddux did. Injuries can happen to anyone, especially with age, but his risk is significant lower than just about any pitcher in baseball regardless of age, and he is showing he will be a guy who will still dominate when his 92 mph fastball average dips to 88-90 when his contract will be expiring. Cueto on the other hand, is only two years removed from missing the majority of a season and had some arm issues last year.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:15 pm

Shelby Miller to the D-Backs

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:50 pm

I'm not sure what to think. I think I like it. I think a front three of Greinke, Miller, Corbin could be incredible. I think I hate losing Inciarte. I think they'll regret not having 1sts from 14-16 in their system. I think I worry about long-term for short-term.

But I'm excited their core has expanded and has been kept in tact.

If Drury, Ahmed, Owings, Lamb can make any sort of step and Goldschmidt, Pollock, Peralta, Tomas do what they did most of last year, this could be a real fun team.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:13 pm

Hate the trade. I honestly feel sick to my stomach. You give up:

-A 290-300 hitting leadoff hitter, with speed, who is an ELITE defender with an ELITE arm. A scrappy guy who has exactly what you want for a playoff run in terms of make up.

- Your number 2 prospect who is a top 35 prospect overall. Who projects as a legit number 3 or 4 guy who has torn up the minors.

- Your number 1 prospect, a probable top 10 prospect (mlb prospectus already has him here) this coming season, who everyone projects as a worst case scenario #2 hitter w 15 HRs in his bat from the shortstop position and a very solid glove and plus speed

All for a guy who at best has number 2 starter stuff, but looks more like a number 3 starter at this point. Hes got a great fastball but he doesnt have a plus secondary pitch and struggles with command on all his pitches. His advanced numbers cause even more grounds for concern and show his ERA just above 3.00 last year was not indicative of how he actually pitched, he had good fortune and eventually that will catch up with him. And now hes coming to a hitters paradise.

The dbacks gave up what you would for a lower end Ace or a proven number 2. Not a guy who still hasnt proven he can be a solid number 3 and still has a lot of work to do.

It seems they are in win now mode. Well then u better pony up and pull in Mike Leake and give us a Mets-like rotation and move whoever doesnt get that number 5 spot out of the five guys who will compete for it, or pull in another big piece if u dont get Leake. I dont get it, id just have signed Leake and keep all those other assets

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:39 pm

Pretty much spot on

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/ ... ller-trade" target="_blank

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:32 pm

I understand what everybody is saying. I do. But Miller has been an All-Star, had a 3.08 ERA as a front-end guy, is just 25, has three club-control seasons remaining, and has shown improvement in many facets of his pitching every season in the bigs, especially from injury.

So while I get while why people are so high on the package the Diamondbacks gave up, too many are thinking too little of the pitcher they got.

I remember when this team sold low on everyone. The Diamondbacks traded a fringe MLB everyday outfielder who's stats are so great because of his limited, ideal use meant to hide his abysmal numbers against lefties. The Diamondbacks traded a middle-rotation prospect only a few years younger than the proven pitcher with potential front-end makeup and stuff. Lastly, the Diamondbacks traded high on a fringe top-5 pick in a middling draft who happened to go #1 overall, who has a middling MLB arm for a shortstop, and who's had just one dominant year in college.

I get Ender has ridiculous WAR. But he was literally hidden from situations that could hurt him. Swanson may not have been much better than a mid-round 1st in a handful of recent drafts. Blair is a workhorse in the making, but unproven, and already showing some signs of his K-rate diminishing.

Right now Miller has one huge problem which he does a good/improved job managing: walk rate.

If he's evolving into more of a sinker baller, less of a knibbler, he could really do well.

Or, this could be Cahill but worse.

Again, it's a hard trade to like on paper. But I can appreciate seeing a 3-year window with Goldschmidt/Pollock/Greinke and wanting to maximize it.

I will miss Ender. I wish the trade had been Tomas.

wooha · Post by **wooha** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:06 am

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you, JMJ. I never like the thought of giving away first round picks, but I think often too much emphasis is put on prospects over proven commodities. A few years ago Draftexpress did a study showing the success levels of draft picks in the NBA, and it was pretty shocking how few of the high profile picks amount to even everyday starters, let alone stars. I know the MLB is an entire different ... ballgame ... but I'd love to see a study showing the first few rounds of baseball drafts in the same light. I bet it's not much different, or even worse.

But we'll see. In the long run these trades seem to never turn out how they appear on paper initially.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:13 am

Looks like we're trying to land Mike Leake as well.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14324 ... amondbacks" target="_blank

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:23 am

wooha wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty much with you, JMJ. I never like the thought of giving away first round picks, but I think often too much emphasis is put on prospects over proven commodities. A few years ago Draftexpress did a study showing the success levels of draft picks in the NBA, and it was pretty shocking how few of the high profile picks amount to even everyday starters, let alone stars. I know the MLB is an entire different ... ballgame ... but I'd love to see a study showing the first few rounds of baseball drafts in the same light. I bet it's not much different, or even worse.

But we'll see. In the long run these trades seem to never turn out how they appear on paper initially.

Baseball seems to have a significant, if not most significant boom/bust rate amongst 1st rounders.

Just think of recent Diamondback drafts, ones that the authorities seemed to think highly of their 1sts.

The only one since Upton/Scherzer to make a bit of difference has been Pollock, and most thought he was a reach and shouldn't have been taken for another round or two.

They emphasized pitching and Bradley, the gem of the bunch, is still a prospect who's inconsistent.

Maybe Swanson is a foundational player. But I suspect his ceiling is Stephen Drew and his floor nothing to get enraged over trading. Entering the draft, one of the biggest things Dansby had going for him was perceived signability as a top pick. This is a so-so draft.

I'm happy to have an already All-Star at age 25 who still possesses significant upside. This might be a Scherzer type where it takes time to dominate.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:23 am

I hear in the Miller trade the DBacks also had to give up two ball boys and a hot dog vendor.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:52 am

I think you are severely undervaluing Ender and overvaluing Miller. I'm not a sabermetrics guy, it's a hard sell to any ballplayer, but I feel decisions should be made on both old school baseball acumen AND on the numbers. Just some thoughts.

Ender's WAR is 5.26, which ranks him 27th in all of baseball. I'd invite you to take a look at the 26 names ahead of them. Outside of two guys, all are huge name guys who would demand huge contracts, and some young guys who may be a good value right now, but would take you giving up the house to get in a trade. Ender does all that for $500k and is still shy of arbitration. He ranked 4th in defensive WAR, but many other advanced statistics have him as the 2nd best defender in all of baseball. The guy is a gold glove outfielder at all three outfield positions. That's invaluable. His replacement, Tomas, is a defensive liability. The diamondbacks were the best defensive team in the NL last year, probably in all of baseball. When you go out and get pitchers, why mess with that? Tomas' WAR by the way, is -1.3. So you got a six level loss there. Miller, who is NOT an every day player, has a WAR in the low 3's, so you are still taking a 3-level hit. You might say, well Tomas will get better, and that may be the case, but his defense is always going to kill him. Tomas has higher power upside than Ender, obviously, but Ender had a higher slugging percentage and OPS than Tomas last year. You call him a fringe every day outfielder, but the only reason he wasnt full time was because they needed to get Peralta at bats AND their big investment in Tomas, who proved he couldnt hack it at third base.

The knock on Ender is his performance against lefties. A few things to keep in mind: his total average against LHP was 227. But against left handed STARTERS, it was 270. So he struggles against left handed specialists in the bullpen, a lot of guys do. Last season he still gave you 411 plate appearances vs righties. That is significant and almost 3 to 1 vs his plate appearances vs lefties, which shows the whole lefties concern is blown out of proportion, considering he started roughly 3/4 of his teams games. He wasnt hidden as much as you think, remember, he spent time on the disabled list with a hamstring injury. You cant hide Ender when there is another lefty, Peralta, who had his issues with lefties as well. They both had to just play. We all hate strikeouts and have seen how it kills the dbacks. Ender ranked 5th in the NL in at bats per strikeout 9:1; against lefties, it's 8.3:1. Yes please. His low slugging against lefties show what the issue is w lefties, weak contact. But hes not hopeless. He is making contact and hes got plus speed. He has a nice compact swing and good hands, with time that will improve. Another thing to keep in mind, he hit 273 against lefties his rookie year. You would laugh at his minor league splits by the way. In most seasons he did better against lefties.

You are underselling Swanson. No, there wasnt a Justin Upton or a Josh Beckett in this year's draft, but Swanson is still a projected all star at the most premier field position, and he's a top 10 pick in any draft. He's not going to be Derek Jeter, but he is being comped to him. He doesn't have a middling arm. Every scouting report I have seen rates his arm as a 55 or a 60 on an 80 scale. 50 is considered average by major league standards. The question was whether or not he had a plus arm, and there are plenty of major league shortstops who don't. His complete tool set and make up make him even more important.

On to Miller. There are eye test concerns and concerns on paper. People have tunnel vision with his 3.02 ERA, which ranked 11th in NL. Keep in mind though, a lot of that was his red hot start to the season and down the stretch he was a high 3's ERA guy. His ERA+ that adjusts for his ballpark places him outside of the top 20. The more advanced measurements, XFIP, SIERA, etc, place him in that 50-60 range in baseball. Basically, people say he had crap luck with the run support (he did, at historic levels), but the advanced statistics also say this was a guy who should have had an ERA in the mid to high 3's even with his unbelievable start. A lot of coulda woulda shoulda. Regardless, he may or may not have another season where he pitches better than he really should, but it's going to be a lot tougher for him to do that at Chase field.

As for his actual stuff, throwing out any numbers and statistics, what makes you believe he has front end stuff? Yes, he has a plus fastball with hop. But what secondary offerings does he have to push him over the edge? You need at least two plus pitches and a solid third offering to be a front end starter. His curveball is lazy, his changeup isnt even average. His cutter is pretty good, but his sinker is not. Teams hit 308 against that pitch. As a starter if you are really rolling out there with hard, hard and hard (only 13 percent of his pitches are offspeed) that cutter or sinker better be a plus pitch and neither are. Yes, his walk rate is brutal. He doesnt have great command of any of his pitches, fastballs or offspeed. That's another knock. Remember when St Louis traded him for Heyward? The Braves REALLY wanted Carlos Martinez and the Cardinals said hell no and offered Miller. There's a reason, because Martinez has the higher ceiling with plus secondary pitches and much better stuff. Yes, things can develop, and yes, things can improve, but the point here is he hasnt proven it yet. They traded away a likely future all star, a proven young player who is a potential all star and at worst a very solid top of the lineup guy with speed and a gold glove, and a guy who still could be a back of the rotation type of dude for a guy with a hell of a lot of unknowns. Thats my beef. And thats why basically everyone is shitting on this trade. Dbacks got a taste with Greinke, then became the Padres and severely overpaid to add another piece. Braves have been shopping Miller and most teams showed interest until they saw what the Braves wanted in return. Dbacks bit. And we used to be pissed when old management depleted the farm system. What are we still doing? Traded away our top 2 prospects. We have also traded away two of our last first round picks. We are clearing the farm again.

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