Bear Down Wildcats

zonagrad wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:Put a fork in the season.

Sean Miller has had 9 years to figure out effective offensive sets against a zone. And yet here we are, getting fucking punked by Oregon State. At home. With the best player in CBB.

It's not the sets. It's execution. PJC is actually playing a pretty good game. But this game just shows how limited he is. He can't get in the paint and create. And Trier & Alkins can't or won't penetrate the gaps under control. This zone is nothing special. Look at the wide open misses that Alkins has had. Tons of opportunities. Maddening.

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

Captain Obvious wrote:

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Show those cheerleaders again please

And Oregon's will look even better. At least they'll be something good to look at at McKale. It surely isn't the basketball team.

qwertyus wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

He's a terrible dunker. IDK why.

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

qwertyus wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:Put a fork in the season.

Sean Miller has had 9 years to figure out effective offensive sets against a zone. And yet here we are, getting fucking punked by Oregon State. At home. With the best player in CBB.

It's not the sets. It's execution. PJC is actually playing a pretty good game. But this game just shows how limited he is. He can't get in the paint and create. And Trier & Alkins can't or won't penetrate the gaps under control. This zone is nothing special. Look at the wide open misses that Alkins has had. Tons of opportunities. Maddening.

We haven't gotten open looks every time, because it's just screen after screen, and dribble handoffs. Nothing happening. Over and over. It hasn't been a well-coached offensive game, but thankfully, defense has been better.

RondaeShimmy wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

He's a terrible dunker. IDK why.

2" vertical

Captain Obvious wrote:

RondaeShimmy wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

He's a terrible dunker. IDK why.

2" vertical

0" vertical

dmjcat wrote:

Captain Obvious wrote:

RondaeShimmy wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

He's a terrible dunker. IDK why.

2" vertical

0" vertical

-2" vertical...............he bends his knees

dmjcat wrote:

Captain Obvious wrote:

RondaeShimmy wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

He's a terrible dunker. IDK why.

2" vertical

0" vertical

-2" vertical...............he bends his knees

Captain Obvious wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

I was happy when Tarczewski left. I may be happier when Ristic is finally gone. We need aggression; not passivity.

Catintheheat wrote:Why do I feel like this is a technical loss?

Merkin wrote:

Captain Obvious wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Ristic is so soft. Dude is 7' and couldn't throw that one down. FOH

I was happy when Tarczewski left. I may be happier when Ristic is finally gone. We need aggression; not passivity.

Zeus had T Rex arms and granite hands, but he really made the other players a lot better. He was always in the right place.

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

ASUHATER! wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

Because we looked like ass almost the entire game

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

This is exactly what Miller was talking about. Win games when our offense is shit.

qwertyus wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

Did you watch the game? We let Oregon State have a lead for the entire first half and significant parts of the second. We walked around and took bad shots on the offensive end. We scored 21 goddamn points in one half of basketball! Against Oregon State, AT HOME. This team finally showed some defensive grit, which is good, because otherwise, we were looking at another loss like last week.

jsbowl16 wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

Did you watch the game? We let Oregon State have a lead for the entire first half and significant parts of the second. We walked around and took bad shots on the offensive end. We scored 21 goddamn points in one half of basketball! Against Oregon State, AT HOME. This team finally showed some defensive grit, which is good, because otherwise, we were looking at another loss like last week.

Yeah I watched the whole game. Did anyone else watch the defensive end of the floor or do all of you just watch when we cross half court with the ball.

qwertyus wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

Did you watch the game? We let Oregon State have a lead for the entire first half and significant parts of the second. We walked around and took bad shots on the offensive end. We scored 21 goddamn points in one half of basketball! Against Oregon State, AT HOME. This team finally showed some defensive grit, which is good, because otherwise, we were looking at another loss like last week.

Yeah I watched the whole game. Did anyone else watch the defensive end of the floor or do all of you just watch when we cross half court with the ball.

"This team finally showed some defensive grit, which is good, because otherwise, we were looking at another loss like last week."

Reading is fundamental. If we are firing on both sides of the ball, we blow this Oregon State team out, which is what we should be doing. Instead, we scrape out a win. Will this team put it together Saturday? Maybe.

Catintheheat wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Why was it a bad win? We gave up the least points we did all year and everyone is saying it is a bad win. Is that because we didnt score 90?

Did you watch the game? We let Oregon State have a lead for the entire first half and significant parts of the second. We walked around and took bad shots on the offensive end. We scored 21 goddamn points in one half of basketball! Against Oregon State, AT HOME. This team finally showed some defensive grit, which is good, because otherwise, we were looking at another loss like last week.

Yeah I watched the whole game. Did anyone else watch the defensive end of the floor or do all of you just watch when we cross half court with the ball.

"This team finally showed some defensive grit, which is good, because otherwise, we were looking at another loss like last week."

Reading is fundamental. If we are firing on both sides of the ball, we blow this Oregon State team out, which is what we should be doing. Instead, we scrape out a win. Will this team put it together Saturday? Maybe.

It’s not so much about the game Saturday, or wins and losses, as much as it is the lack of improvement. Either the Cats aren’t developing or other teams are developing quicker. Either way, it is mid January, and this isn’t a good sign. Right now I don’t see the Cats doing any damage in any tourney.

zonagrad wrote:I think this was an important game. Guys are learning that defense leads to offense and that can be a great lesson. Offensively our execution against the zone was lacking big time. We came out tight and couldn't get out of our own way. Ayton played just 11 minutes in the first half because of foul trouble. Almost everything that could go wrong (and right for OSU) did. And yet we still got it done. I'm actually glad this was a bit of a grind. We need games like this where shots aren't falling and we need to grind out a win.

Hell, Michigan State barely escaped at home against Rutgers in overtime. We'd be freaking out if that happened. I think OSU is better than Rutgers.

We're learning out identity. PJC's defense on the ball was really good. Maybe OSU's lack of a true point guard probably contributed to that. But it was key to us really giving OSU fits. They couldn't execute their offense at all.

Our shortcomings on offense aren't going to go away. Ayton is special. But as good as he is, we just don't have a guard who can take command. I'm resigned to PJC being what he is. I'd like for him to be able to create more in the paint and generate more offense for himself and finish. But it's just not in his skill set. He actually played a really good game tonight. Alkins was a disaster until the late second half.

I'm also happy our bench got some minutes. Hopefully they'll continue to contribute more and more. We really need their development. Randolph made some foolish plays in the second half. But Lee brought a lot of energy. But I like the energy they bring. Noticeably absent was Barcello.

qwertyus wrote:

zonagrad wrote:I think this was an important game. Guys are learning that defense leads to offense and that can be a great lesson. Offensively our execution against the zone was lacking big time. We came out tight and couldn't get out of our own way. Ayton played just 11 minutes in the first half because of foul trouble. Almost everything that could go wrong (and right for OSU) did. And yet we still got it done. I'm actually glad this was a bit of a grind. We need games like this where shots aren't falling and we need to grind out a win.

Hell, Michigan State barely escaped at home against Rutgers in overtime. We'd be freaking out if that happened. I think OSU is better than Rutgers.

We're learning out identity. PJC's defense on the ball was really good. Maybe OSU's lack of a true point guard probably contributed to that. But it was key to us really giving OSU fits. They couldn't execute their offense at all.

Our shortcomings on offense aren't going to go away. Ayton is special. But as good as he is, we just don't have a guard who can take command. I'm resigned to PJC being what he is. I'd like for him to be able to create more in the paint and generate more offense for himself and finish. But it's just not in his skill set. He actually played a really good game tonight. Alkins was a disaster until the late second half.

I'm also happy our bench got some minutes. Hopefully they'll continue to contribute more and more. We really need their development. Randolph made some foolish plays in the second half. But Lee brought a lot of energy. But I like the energy they bring. Noticeably absent was Barcello.

On PJC, he had a good game defensively. He was not good on offense. Trier and Ayton found their way by the end, but Rawle, Ristic, and PJC were disappointing to me on the offensive side of the ball.

On D, the team really stepped it up and switched well, only 1 or 2 back cuts that worked. I think that's one of the things we can take away. Almost no open looks, played through foul trouble, and took advantage of refs that allowed physical play.

A note on the refs, anyone notice how the officiating was actually pretty damn good this game? Neither team in the bonus for a long time, both teams allowed to be physical. Am I crazy?

Longhorned wrote:Lost in all the talk about Miller's lack of diversity on defense is that Arizona won that game by extending out of the pack-line, trapping their guards, and creating turnovers.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Lost in all the talk about Miller's lack of diversity on defense is that Arizona won that game by extending out of the pack-line, trapping their guards, and creating turnovers.

People whine about Miller being a packline guy all the time and ignore that he frequently adjusts the principles of the packline situationally. He showed it earlier this year in dropping off the hard hedging when we struggled there.

The criticism tends to he people thinking the only way you can adjust on D is to play zone or press. There are tons of tweaks within the basic system and Miller absolutely does that.

RondaeShimmy wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Lost in all the talk about Miller's lack of diversity on defense is that Arizona won that game by extending out of the pack-line, trapping their guards, and creating turnovers.

People whine about Miller being a packline guy all the time and ignore that he frequently adjusts the principles of the packline situationally. He showed it earlier this year in dropping off the hard hedging when we struggled there.

The criticism tends to he people thinking the only way you can adjust on D is to play zone or press. There are tons of tweaks within the basic system and Miller absolutely does that.

What's wrong with a straight M2M

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

RondaeShimmy wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Lost in all the talk about Miller's lack of diversity on defense is that Arizona won that game by extending out of the pack-line, trapping their guards, and creating turnovers.

People whine about Miller being a packline guy all the time and ignore that he frequently adjusts the principles of the packline situationally. He showed it earlier this year in dropping off the hard hedging when we struggled there.

The criticism tends to he people thinking the only way you can adjust on D is to play zone or press. There are tons of tweaks within the basic system and Miller absolutely does that.

What's wrong with a straight M2M

There is no such thing.

RondaeShimmy wrote:Would you want Miller to switch to it if he didn't run it?

Didn't answer that

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thanks for the cross examination. I would want Miller to run the system he felt most comfortable teaching players to execute. For Miller, it's packline, so yes. If it was another coach, my answer would be different.

If I can ask a question in return, why does that question (or the answer) matter?

RondaeShimmy wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thanks for the cross examination. I would want Miller to run the system he felt most comfortable teaching players to execute. For Miller, it's packline, so yes. If it was another coach, my answer would be different.

If I can ask a question in return, why does that question (or the answer) matter?

Well the way I see it, the only time I've been sold on it was the two McConnell years.

Having said that, those teams had multiple NBA caliber defenders and one (Zeus) who would've been drafted a decade ago.

Since Miller isn't recruiting for his system (packline) like say a Tony Bennett, Bob Huggins, so brings up a question for me

If Miller needs NBA caliber defenders and players to have good defenses, is it really the packline or the players. Idk too much about the game but a team with TJ, Zeus, Gordon/Johnson, RHJ, NJ would be good defensively no matter what. Kadeem another example from last year.

In other words those teams weren't good defensively BECAUSE of the packline, they were good because they had good defenders imo.

If it's the players not the system, what's the point of the system? It's a middle man