Sean Miller Discussion

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Puerco
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Puerco »

Good quote from Grantland's mailbag:
I just wanted to congratulate Tony Bennett on his undefeated season, advancing to the Sweet 16, and getting 8 McDonald’s All-Americans to play together unselfishly. Anyone who can do that is a no-brainer for USBWA coach of the year, right?


—Ryan

If we put coaches on All-American teams like we do with players, Bennett would be a first-team lock this year. But anyone who doesn’t name Calipari coach of the year either isn’t paying attention or has a serious ax to grind. I hate that these awards always go to the coach who exceeded expectations, as if recruiting and developing players isn’t also part of the job. Some coach could pull 12 guys from the campus rec center and go 2-32, and I bet there’d be a handful of people supporting that coach for year-end awards because “that’s two more games than anyone thought he’d win!!!” And if you think my exaggeration here is too ridiculous, then consider that Frank Haith, Mike Brey, Tubby Smith, Al Skinner, and Ben Howland each have more USBWA coach of the year awards than Mike Krzyzewski, Rick Pitino, Jim Calhoun, Lute Olson, Jerry Tarkanian, Denny Crum, Lefty Driesell, and Bob Huggins combined.

When it comes to winning undeserved coach of the year awards, nobody does it better than Tony Bennett.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/titus ... ian-grant/

Another from the same mailbag. Good stuff:
I went to Arizona between 1999 and 2004, and after watching T.J. McConnell take over against Ohio State, I started talking with some friends about the best point guards in school history. Because of when we attended U of A, we had a particular affinity for Jason Gardner and the 2001 team. We all agreed that Mike Bibby is No. 1, with McConnell or Gardner as No. 2. Gardner had a better supporting cast (Richard Jefferson, Luke Walton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Wright, Loren Woods), and McConnell does more defensively. But depending on how the next couple weeks go, I could see McConnell making a case for No. 1. Thoughts?
—Charles

No matter the order, the top five Arizona point guards have been set in stone for some time — Steve Kerr, Damon Stoudamire, Mike Bibby, Jason Terry, and Jason Gardner. Every one of those guys played in the Final Four. The first four names had strong NBA careers, while Gardner was a four-year starter who was first team all-conference three times. I’m thinking McConnell has to at least get to the Final Four before he can crack that list. He’s already at a disadvantage because he started his career at Duquesne before transferring to Arizona, so his impact on the program might not feel as great as a four-year player like Gardner or a five-year guy like Kerr. But longevity isn’t a dealbreaker for McConnell. Bibby only played two years, and he’s clearly the best all-time. Here’s how I’d rank the top five:

1. Bibby
2. Gardner
3. Stoudamire
4. Kerr
5. Terry

Assuming Arizona loses to Kentucky in the Final Four and McConnell continues playing well and serving as the Wildcats’ clear-cut leader, I’d probably put him at third all-time. Kerr was a great shooter, but he wasn’t the defender or the facilitator that McConnell is. Terry put up stupid numbers in his one year as Arizona’s starting point guard, but the Cats lost in the first round that year. The same goes for Stoudamire’s senior year. But Jason Gardner was the heart and soul of Arizona’s great early 2000s teams, and Bibby has the national title trump card. If McConnell can lead the Cats to a championship, then we can debate whether he deserves the top spot over Bibby. For now, I think he’s sixth on the list and two wins away from jumping up to third.
'A parent is the one person who is supposed to make their kid think they can do anything. Says they're beautiful even when they're ugly. Thinks they're smart even when they go to Arizona State.' -- Jack Donaghy
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Gardner over Damon is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Sean Miller's ceiling.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Bear Down Vegas »

Fun to talk about though.

Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan & then a close fifth - Dylan.


But seriously:

Bibby, Damon, Jason G, Steve Kerr & Jason T tied would be my order. I was pretty young for Kerr & it was the very beginning of my fandom, so it makes sense he could be ranked a little low - and DS could be ranked a little high - because he led the teams where I was first hooked as a superfan who never missed a game. I don't agree TJ gets to third by getting to the Final Four - but I would rank him as one of my top 5 favorites of all time...which honestly - I already do - regardless of what happens tonight/this weekend.

TJ has been f'n incredible. From hearing about him in workouts, to him jumping into Grant's arms after the Florida victory (when he was still sitting out), to running a great ship for two years, to kissing the floor, to whatever is about to happen......
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

I remember when people were talking about retiring Nic Wise's jersey.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by threenumberones »

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Gardner over Damon is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Sean Miller's ceiling.
Yea. Can only think that these are people that just weren't watching UA basketball in the early 90s. Could make a strong case for Damon over Bibby as well if it weren't for the title.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Merkin »

Jason Terry was only the frickin' NPOY.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by 97cats »

1 -- Bibby
2 -- Kerr
3 -- Terry
4 -- Stoudamire

*** McConnell -- to be inserted; slot dependent on end result.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Gardner over Damon is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Sean Miller's ceiling.
Yea. Can only think that these are people that just weren't watching UA basketball in the early 90s. Could make a strong case for Damon over Bibby as well if it weren't for the title.
Personally, I don't put Bibby at #1, but he has the ring, so I can't criticize anyone who does. It's the one thing no one else has.

I'd go:

1. Damon/Dylan
2. Bibby/Dylan
3. Terry/Dylan
4. Reeves/Dylan
5. Kerr/Dylan

Gardner and TJ as honorable mention. Kerr vs Reeves is a tough one. Reeves is a better player, but Kerr was more important to the program.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Harvey Specter »

97cats wrote:1 -- Bibby
2 -- Kerr
3 -- Terry
4 -- Stoudamire

*** McConnell -- to be inserted; slot dependent on end result.
^^^ This
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by threenumberones »

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Gardner over Damon is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Sean Miller's ceiling.
Yea. Can only think that these are people that just weren't watching UA basketball in the early 90s. Could make a strong case for Damon over Bibby as well if it weren't for the title.
Personally, I don't put Bibby at #1, but he has the ring, so I can't criticize anyone who does. It's the one thing no one else has.

I'd go:

1. Damon/Dylan
2. Bibby/Dylan
3. Terry/Dylan
4. Reeves/Dylan
5. Kerr/Dylan

Gardner and TJ as honorable mention. Kerr vs Reeves is a tough one. Reeves is a better player, but Kerr was more important to the program.
Reeves was absolutely not a PG.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Merkin »

threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Gardner over Damon is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Sean Miller's ceiling.
Yea. Can only think that these are people that just weren't watching UA basketball in the early 90s. Could make a strong case for Damon over Bibby as well if it weren't for the title.
Personally, I don't put Bibby at #1, but he has the ring, so I can't criticize anyone who does. It's the one thing no one else has.

I'd go:

1. Damon/Dylan
2. Bibby/Dylan
3. Terry/Dylan
4. Reeves/Dylan
5. Kerr/Dylan

Gardner and TJ as honorable mention. Kerr vs Reeves is a tough one. Reeves is a better player, but Kerr was more important to the program.
Reeves was absolutely not a PG.
Especially since he had Damon Stoudemire on his team along with Reggie Geary.

Khalid did have pretty good handles though.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by azpenguin »

Reeves was not a PG. But him and Damon on the court together... man, dat backcourt. Just a deadly combo.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by threenumberones »

Merkin wrote:Jason Terry was only the frickin' NPOY.
Consensus first team AA and PAC10 POY. Don't think he won any of the national awards. One of those puke clowns swept as I recall.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Merkin »

threenumberones wrote:
Merkin wrote:Jason Terry was only the frickin' NPOY.
Consensus first team AA and PAC10 POY. Don't think he won any of the national awards. One of those puke clowns swept as I recall.
JeT was definitely NPOY! Only way to get your jersey retired.

http://www.arizonawildcats.com/ViewArti ... =209897638
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by threenumberones »

Merkin wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Merkin wrote:Jason Terry was only the frickin' NPOY.
Consensus first team AA and PAC10 POY. Don't think he won any of the national awards. One of those puke clowns swept as I recall.
JeT was definitely NPOY! Only way to get your jersey retired.

http://www.arizonawildcats.com/ViewArti ... =209897638
Just SI and CBS named him POY. That bitch Brand won the more official type ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U. ... ear_awards
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by ASUHATER! »

Looking at the old site archives from late March early April 2009. Lots of hilarity.http://forum.goazcats.com/showthread.php?t=89224
Old 03-31-2009 #1
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The I do not want Sean Miller thread

If Livengood hires Miller, it will not get the "Wow" response, it will get the "Fire Livengood!" response.

Livengood has gone on record as saying he wants a veteran coach who has won a national title who also runs an up-tempo game. Miller does not fit any of those requirements.

The UofA needs a coach who is well known and recruits want to come play for. I don't see recruits getting excited about playing for Sean Miller.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.

i'll just go with fuck asu.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Yea. Can only think that these are people that just weren't watching UA basketball in the early 90s. Could make a strong case for Damon over Bibby as well if it weren't for the title.
Personally, I don't put Bibby at #1, but he has the ring, so I can't criticize anyone who does. It's the one thing no one else has.

I'd go:

1. Damon/Dylan
2. Bibby/Dylan
3. Terry/Dylan
4. Reeves/Dylan
5. Kerr/Dylan

Gardner and TJ as honorable mention. Kerr vs Reeves is a tough one. Reeves is a better player, but Kerr was more important to the program.
Reeves was absolutely not a PG.
If Terry had played with Bibby the whole time, their roles would have been virtually identical. Khalid actually posted higher assist per 40 min totals.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by EVCat »

if talking a single season, Kerr goes higher on the list...his senior year, he was the nations leading 3 pt shooter and averaged less than a turnover a game, with an assist - to - turnover ration in the 6-to-1 range. Maybe only Bibby had a more impressive single season, and that is because of title.

If entire career is considered, Damon is no lower than 2. JET had a tremendous senior year, but his role was much more scorer than facilitator...JET shared primary point duties. I'd go Bibby, Damon, Kerr, TJ/Gardner battling for 4th based on this year's results, and JET in a different category of "Great Wildcats". I just don't think point when I think of Terry's 1999 season. I think "fkn awesome", but not a point in Arizona ' s traditional sense.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Merkin »

I wouldn't go 6/1 for Kerr, he had 150 assists and an amazing only 36 TOs his senior year. Only 29 fouls too to go along with 44 steals. Amazing year.

His 57% 3 point shot record (114 /199) will never be broken, at least until the move the line back in which I doubt they ever do.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by dirtbags »

sorry if this has already been mentioned, but i believe tonight's win bumps CSM's team up to #2 on the UofA mbb all-time single season win list with a record of 34-3. and the season's still alive.

the '88 ff squad is #1 at 35-3.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

3 Elite Eights (minimum) in 5 years. That's coaching.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by UofACat23 »

UofACat23 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:So here's how I expect the rest of the season to go:

@UW L
@WSU W
USC W
UCLA W
@Col W
@Utah L
Cal W
Stan W

Pac 12 tourney: semifinalist

NCAA tourney: Sweet Sixteen
Bump.

Exhibit A of why you shouldn't make emotional predictions after a loss.
Bump again.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by UAEebs86 »

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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by gumby »

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Yea. Can only think that these are people that just weren't watching UA basketball in the early 90s. Could make a strong case for Damon over Bibby as well if it weren't for the title.
Personally, I don't put Bibby at #1, but he has the ring, so I can't criticize anyone who does. It's the one thing no one else has.

I'd go:

1. Damon/Dylan
2. Bibby/Dylan
3. Terry/Dylan
4. Reeves/Dylan
5. Kerr/Dylan

Gardner and TJ as honorable mention. Kerr vs Reeves is a tough one. Reeves is a better player, but Kerr was more important to the program.
Reeves was absolutely not a PG.
If Terry had played with Bibby the whole time, their roles would have been virtually identical. Khalid actually posted higher assist per 40 min totals.
Luke Walton had a lot of assists. Still not a point guard. Damon was the point guard. Before Damon, it was Othick. Reeves was almost exclusively the two guard.
Right where I want to be.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

Elite 8
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by AZCatGirl »

Yup. Never getting to a Final 4.
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

AZCatGirl wrote:Yup. Never getting to a Final 4.
Not anytime soon
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by AZCatGirl »

Or ever.
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by SCCats »

protip for the night: think before you post
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by cats101 »

AZCatGirl wrote:Or ever.
Yeah. His best team can't get past the E8. Terrible.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

This game was a defining moment...

Sean Miller will remain in the Jay Wright, Mark Few, Jamie Dixon tier of coaches.

Good, but not quite great.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by loomer »

it's going to be a little while before we get another chance (hope i'm wrong)
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

cats101 wrote:
AZCatGirl wrote:Or ever.
Yeah. His best team can't get past the E8. Terrible.
Last year was the best Arizona team, pre-Ashley injury.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by ASUHATER! »

Sigh. Oh well.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.

i'll just go with fuck asu.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Coop Cat »

There were some very questionable decisions made tonight:

-Kaleb on Frank so much when RHJ appeared to be handling him good
-Not able to run set plays for York/Pitts to get some open look at 3s
-Lack of fouling at the end of the game
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by AZCatGirl »

SCCats wrote:protip for the night: think before you post
You're right. I'm posting on emotion.

I take it back. Stupid thing to say. Just really upset. I thought we had this.
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by PieceOfMeat »

Sean Elite Eight Miller

next year won't be better, either.
It's long past time to bring this back to the court, let's do it with a small update:

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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by PieceOfMeat »

Coop Cat wrote: -Lack of fouling at the end of the game
SEEM coaching small at the end of the game with that strategy
It's long past time to bring this back to the court, let's do it with a small update:

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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Alieberman »

So many idiots
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by EastCoastCat »

Coop Cat wrote:There were some very questionable decisions made tonight:

-Kaleb on Frank so much when RHJ appeared to be handling him good
-Not able to run set plays for York/Pitts to get some open look at 3s
-Lack of fouling at the end of the game
When the other team makes 11 of 13 3's in the second half...most of them contested...you can't find other reasons why we lost.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by cats101 »

Salty wrote:
cats101 wrote:
AZCatGirl wrote:Or ever.
Yeah. His best team can't get past the E8. Terrible.
Last year was the best Arizona team, pre-Ashley injury.
That wasn't the team in the tournament though.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

Coop Cat wrote:There were some very questionable decisions made tonight:

-Kaleb on Frank so much when RHJ appeared to be handling him good
-Not able to run set plays for York/Pitts to get some open look at 3s
-Lack of fouling at the end of the game
Tarc played solid D

Leaving Pitts in for those two threes hurt bad. Should have taken him out. That's what started their run from beyond the arc.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by etank34 »

No coach expects a team to shoot 10/12 from 3 in a single half. Stop and fucking think before you start pointing fingers. That last dagger Dekker hit on Rondae could not possibly have been covered better. They just couldn't miss.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

etank34 wrote:No coach expects a team to shoot 10/12 from 3 in a single half. Stop and fucking think before you start pointing fingers. That last dagger Dekker hit on Rondae could not possibly have been covered better. They just couldn't miss.
Yep.

Tucky will MURDER THEM!
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Coop Cat »

Salty wrote:
Coop Cat wrote:There were some very questionable decisions made tonight:

-Kaleb on Frank so much when RHJ appeared to be handling him good
-Not able to run set plays for York/Pitts to get some open look at 3s
-Lack of fouling at the end of the game
Tarc played solid D

Leaving Pitts in for those two threes hurt bad. Should have taken him out. That's what started their run from beyond the arc.
Tarc played sold D on Frank? Are you crazy??? Go back and watch each time that he was on Frank. Too slow. Cannot stick with him. Jumped at almost every shot fake. He DID NOT play solid D on Frank.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by SCCats »

AZCatGirl wrote:
SCCats wrote:protip for the night: think before you post
You're right. I'm posting on emotion.

I take it back. Stupid thing to say. Just really upset. I thought we had this.
I know people are upset. It's ok. But Sean is going to be winning Pac titles and knocking on the door (if not bashing through it) to the final four for the next 25 years. We'll get there.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by Salty »

Coop Cat wrote:
Salty wrote:
Coop Cat wrote:There were some very questionable decisions made tonight:

-Kaleb on Frank so much when RHJ appeared to be handling him good
-Not able to run set plays for York/Pitts to get some open look at 3s
-Lack of fouling at the end of the game
Tarc played solid D

Leaving Pitts in for those two threes hurt bad. Should have taken him out. That's what started their run from beyond the arc.
Tarc played sold D on Frank? Are you crazy??? Go back and watch each time that he was on Frank. Too slow. Cannot stick with him. Jumped at almost every shot fake. He DID NOT play solid D on Frank.
First half Tarc did great.

Second half, was more about lack of help D.

There were a few times Frank just won. But I thought Tarc did a solid job overall.
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by PieceOfMeat »

Coop Cat wrote:
Salty wrote:
Coop Cat wrote:There were some very questionable decisions made tonight:

-Kaleb on Frank so much when RHJ appeared to be handling him good
-Not able to run set plays for York/Pitts to get some open look at 3s
-Lack of fouling at the end of the game
Tarc played solid D

Leaving Pitts in for those two threes hurt bad. Should have taken him out. That's what started their run from beyond the arc.
Tarc played sold D on Frank? Are you crazy??? Go back and watch each time that he was on Frank. Too slow. Cannot stick with him. Jumped at almost every shot fake. He DID NOT play solid D on Frank.
I think Tarc did pretty well against him actually.
It's long past time to bring this back to the court, let's do it with a small update:

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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by ASUHATER! »

It will happen. I don't know if it will take 1 or 15 more years but I have faith in Miller.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.

i'll just go with fuck asu.
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AZCatGirl
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Re: Sean Miller's ceiling

Post by AZCatGirl »

It'd be nice if the committee could maybe not keep putting Wisconsin in the West. Or just flat out seed fairly instead of seeding for TV ratings.
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
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