UA Basketball 2015-2016 Discussion Thread

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:19 pm

Olsondogg, chill. Tucsonclip pointed out we lack a solid defender for a long perimeter player because Tollefsen has not been up to snuff so far. Wiltjer is a long perimeter player who matches our issue.

This is allegedly a UA basketball discussion forum. The above stuff is all legit discussion. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it really isn't a stupid argument. We have a liability that we must overcome to beat Gonzaga and teams like them.

It's the state of our team right now.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:23 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:Wow you truly are the Queen of Exaggeration aren't you? You wear the crown real well, or is it a tiara?

I bet you're a blast to talk politics and religion with too.

This is four posts to me since you said you were just going to leave me there. It's nice to know that someone just can't quit me. Makes me feel all tingly on the inside.

Have a great weekend man.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:22 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
gumby wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:I think we have 0 guys who can defend combo-forwards.

1. Simon could be the guy eventually, but I dont think he has the strength to defend the hybrid 3/4s. I would like to see him have a shot, but Miller clearly doesnt trust him yet.

2. Tollefson cant defend off the bounce and because of that he cant pressure on the perimeter. Webb was a matchup nightmare for him. Lay off and he shoots open 3s, play up and he drives by. His closeouts were just bad, really bad. No break down, just flying out at the ball.

3. I know Anderson hurt his ankle, but he doesnt have the quickness to defend guys like that. However, I think he is our best option.

Even if Smith was behind defensively, he still has the length and quickness to either contest shots from the perimeter or press up more on the ball. Tollefson was jumping out at Duncan and getting beat off the dribble. He was then playing off Webb and couldnt contest the 3 ball.

I thought it was painfully obvious. From what I saw in Red-Blue and hearing reports on him, Smith was the guy to defend the combo forwards.
The good news is that Webb and Duncan are rare players in college. We will face few, if any, players who are like them.
.....until the NCAA tournament when it matters most.

Dang. You're committed to anxiety. Give you that.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:49 pm

Dave wrote:Are you guys suggesting Tollefsen can't defend. He is our Hollis-Jefferson this year.

http://tucson.com/sports/basketball/col ... 2f947.html" target="_blank
Of course, defense had a lot to do with it. Miller is the head coach, after all, and he needed a skilled defender at forward to help replace versatile stopper Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, who left for the NBA as a sophomore this spring.

Guess what? While Miller often defined Hollis-Jefferson’s defensive versatility last season by how he defended both guard Kevin Pangos and power forward Kyle Wiltjer of Gonzaga — Tollefsen did the exact same thing against the Bulldogs while playing for USF.

“He’s really adept on defense,” Miller said. “He can guard a perimeter player, a big forward or a power guy as well.”

Among Tollefsen’s other defensive assignments at USF: Taking on 6-5 BYU scorer Tyler Haws and, of all people, three-time all-WCC guard Anthony Ireland of Loyola Marymount ... who is all of 5-foot-10.

“My left really bothered him and I have really quick feet,” Tollefsen said. “I can guard just about anyone.”

Lmfao. He is not our Hollis-Jefferson this year. Why are u bringing up an old article when we've been able to watch him in four games this season. Have u been watching the games? If u have directv thats fine. In the four games we've seen he hasnt been able to guard anyone. Division 2 players, small conference players, or mid major players have all eaten him alive off the dribble, and as TucsonClip, myself and others have pointed out over the course of the season, defending the dribble is only part of his defensive woes. He is the worst defenser of anyone who sees any minutes and it isnt even close really. I posted earlier of what Wiltjer did to him three times last year and based on what ive seen so far, im shocked he didnt do more. That article looked like there was some manipulation by the author, and clearly being assigned to guard two different guys and actually guarding them are two different things

So either Miller was talking him up higher than what he was, or he midjudged, or Tollefsen is playing some sort of sick joke and holding out on us. I was expecting big things from this kid, but ive thrown that out the window. Hopefully the light goes on with him, cuz we certainly could use him.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:10 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Dave wrote:Are you guys suggesting Tollefsen can't defend. He is our Hollis-Jefferson this year.

http://tucson.com/sports/basketball/col ... 2f947.html" target="_blank
Of course, defense had a lot to do with it. Miller is the head coach, after all, and he needed a skilled defender at forward to help replace versatile stopper Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, who left for the NBA as a sophomore this spring.

Guess what? While Miller often defined Hollis-Jefferson’s defensive versatility last season by how he defended both guard Kevin Pangos and power forward Kyle Wiltjer of Gonzaga — Tollefsen did the exact same thing against the Bulldogs while playing for USF.

“He’s really adept on defense,” Miller said. “He can guard a perimeter player, a big forward or a power guy as well.”

Among Tollefsen’s other defensive assignments at USF: Taking on 6-5 BYU scorer Tyler Haws and, of all people, three-time all-WCC guard Anthony Ireland of Loyola Marymount ... who is all of 5-foot-10.

“My left really bothered him and I have really quick feet,” Tollefsen said. “I can guard just about anyone.”
Lmfao. He is not our Hollis-Jefferson this year. Why are u bringing up an old article when we've been able to watch him in four games this season. Have u been watching the games? If u have directv thats fine. In the four games we've seen he hasnt been able to guard anyone. Division 2 players, small conference players, or mid major players have all eaten him alive off the dribble, and as TucsonClip, myself and others have pointed out over the course of the season, defending the dribble is only part of his defensive woes. He is the worst defenser of anyone who sees any minutes and it isnt even close really. I posted earlier of what Wiltjer did to him three times last year and based on what ive seen so far, im shocked he didnt do more. That article looked like there was some manipulation by the author, and clearly being assigned to guard two different guys and actually guarding them are two different things

So either Miller was talking him up higher than what he was, or he midjudged, or Tollefsen is playing some sort of sick joke and holding out on us. I was expecting big things from this kid, but ive thrown that out the window. Hopefully the light goes on with him, cuz we certainly could use him.

Your comment suggests that you thought Dave was bring serious... In which case your sarcasm meter is in serious need of re-calibration. The

should gave been a dead giveaway that he thought the article he linked was as ridiculous as you do.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:07 pm

Oh

I didn't even notice the laugh face. Can I blame it on a long day?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:49 pm

This thread is the tits.

Lots of great reading and takes here guys.

Thanks for the mental health break during my lunch.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:10 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Olsondogg, chill. Tucsonclip pointed out we lack a solid defender for a long perimeter player because Tollefsen has not been up to snuff so far. Wiltjer is a long perimeter player who matches our issue.

This is allegedly a UA basketball discussion forum. The above stuff is all legit discussion. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it really isn't a stupid argument. We have a liability that we must overcome to beat Gonzaga and teams like them.

It's the state of our team right now.

Chill? Ha.

"Tollefsen has not been up to snuff". 3 games. One against a really good player called an NBA player by our coach. If not being able to adequately defend a future NBA player "up to snuff" while the team wins is an issue, then so be it.

"The state of our team right now". Laughable.

I just watched Cal get taken to the wire, by East Carolina, at home. It was a one possession game with a minute to go. All teams have issues, Poohman. If you think the fact that Tollefsen wasn't "up to snuff" in game 3 of his time in a UA uniform is a major concern for future games, then go on.

Or just Chill.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:49 pm

Olsondogg wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Olsondogg, chill. Tucsonclip pointed out we lack a solid defender for a long perimeter player because Tollefsen has not been up to snuff so far. Wiltjer is a long perimeter player who matches our issue.

This is allegedly a UA basketball discussion forum. The above stuff is all legit discussion. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it really isn't a stupid argument. We have a liability that we must overcome to beat Gonzaga and teams like them.

It's the state of our team right now.
Chill? Ha.

"Tollefsen has not been up to snuff". 3 games. One against a really good player called an NBA player by our coach. If not being able to adequately defend a future NBA player "up to snuff" while the team wins is an issue, then so be it.

"The state of our team right now". Laughable.

I just watched Cal get taken to the wire, by East Carolina, at home. It was a one possession game with a minute to go. All teams have issues, Poohman. If you think the fact that Tollefsen wasn't "up to snuff" in game 3 of his time in a UA uniform is a major concern for future games, then go on.

Or just Chill.

Ummm... You quote Miller as though he is infallible (he damn near is)... But don't pretend as though you don't ignore him when it suits your opinion. He has spoken highly of York for the entire time he has been here,.. But you loved to piss on #YorkCity plenty back in the day when it was in vogue,

I really feel good about this team... Like I have (pretty much) all Miller's team. But 3 games in, Tollefsen appears to be the weak link. Might that change? Sure... But he's a 5th year senior, and he sure as shit isn't "this year's RHJ".

Anyone who does not think everything is "sunshine and lollipops" at ever turn is not automatically a "bad fan"... or a "chicken little".

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:09 am

Olsondogg wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Olsondogg, chill. Tucsonclip pointed out we lack a solid defender for a long perimeter player because Tollefsen has not been up to snuff so far. Wiltjer is a long perimeter player who matches our issue.

This is allegedly a UA basketball discussion forum. The above stuff is all legit discussion. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it really isn't a stupid argument. We have a liability that we must overcome to beat Gonzaga and teams like them.

It's the state of our team right now.
Chill? Ha.

"Tollefsen has not been up to snuff". 3 games. One against a really good player called an NBA player by our coach. If not being able to adequately defend a future NBA player "up to snuff" while the team wins is an issue, then so be it.

"The state of our team right now". Laughable.

I just watched Cal get taken to the wire, by East Carolina, at home. It was a one possession game with a minute to go. All teams have issues, Poohman. If you think the fact that Tollefsen wasn't "up to snuff" in game 3 of his time in a UA uniform is a major concern for future games, then go on.

Or just Chill.

Serious question: if we all just chill, then why do we need Beardownwildcats.com? What should we be talking about?

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:33 am

Harvey Specter wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Olsondogg, chill. Tucsonclip pointed out we lack a solid defender for a long perimeter player because Tollefsen has not been up to snuff so far. Wiltjer is a long perimeter player who matches our issue.

This is allegedly a UA basketball discussion forum. The above stuff is all legit discussion. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it really isn't a stupid argument. We have a liability that we must overcome to beat Gonzaga and teams like them.

It's the state of our team right now.
Chill? Ha.

"Tollefsen has not been up to snuff". 3 games. One against a really good player called an NBA player by our coach. If not being able to adequately defend a future NBA player "up to snuff" while the team wins is an issue, then so be it.

"The state of our team right now". Laughable.

I just watched Cal get taken to the wire, by East Carolina, at home. It was a one possession game with a minute to go. All teams have issues, Poohman. If you think the fact that Tollefsen wasn't "up to snuff" in game 3 of his time in a UA uniform is a major concern for future games, then go on.

Or just Chill.
Ummm... You quote Miller as though he is infallible (he damn near is)... But don't pretend as though you don't ignore him when it suits your opinion. He has spoken highly of York for the entire time he has been here,.. But you loved to piss on #YorkCity plenty back in the day when it was in vogue,

I really feel good about this team... Like I have (pretty much) all Miller's team. But 3 games in, Tollefsen appears to be the weak link. Might that change? Sure... But he's a 5th year senior, and he sure as shit isn't "this year's RHJ".

Anyone who does not think everything is "sunshine and lollipops" at ever turn is not automatically a "bad fan"... or a "chicken little".

When did I puss on York exactly?!?

When did I say someone was a bad fan?!?

We are three games in and people want to label someone as something. I never said anyone was RHJ and guess what, RHJ wasn't perfect on either end of the floor.

If you want to call me out for being a homer full of sunshine, at least do so intelligently with some actual facts.

Oh and I ignore Miller in what way again?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:38 am

gumby wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
gumby wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:I think we have 0 guys who can defend combo-forwards.

1. Simon could be the guy eventually, but I dont think he has the strength to defend the hybrid 3/4s. I would like to see him have a shot, but Miller clearly doesnt trust him yet.

2. Tollefson cant defend off the bounce and because of that he cant pressure on the perimeter. Webb was a matchup nightmare for him. Lay off and he shoots open 3s, play up and he drives by. His closeouts were just bad, really bad. No break down, just flying out at the ball.

3. I know Anderson hurt his ankle, but he doesnt have the quickness to defend guys like that. However, I think he is our best option.

Even if Smith was behind defensively, he still has the length and quickness to either contest shots from the perimeter or press up more on the ball. Tollefson was jumping out at Duncan and getting beat off the dribble. He was then playing off Webb and couldnt contest the 3 ball.

I thought it was painfully obvious. From what I saw in Red-Blue and hearing reports on him, Smith was the guy to defend the combo forwards.
The good news is that Webb and Duncan are rare players in college. We will face few, if any, players who are like them.
.....until the NCAA tournament when it matters most.
Dang. You're committed to anxiety. Give you that.

I'm just tired of not making the Final Four. That wasn't anxiety either, just stating facts.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:59 pm

This year is going to be a struggle.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:34 am

az91 wrote:This year is going to be a struggle.

Yes it is.......so far it's been piss poor football losses and injuries, TJ leaf decommit (although LM pickup helped offset a bit), Ray Smith ACL injury, Zeus ankle issues and pathetic defensive efforts.....SMH.

I hope we can Bear Down and pull off a decent year. Go Cats!

az91 · Post by **az91** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:43 am

I cannot remember a more disheartening game that we actually won. At the start of the season, I was hoping we could make it to the Sweet 16, but after this game, I am hoping we do not get left out of the NCAA Tournament.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:28 am

az91 wrote:I cannot remember a more disheartening game that we actually won. At the start of the season, I was hoping we could make it to the Sweet 16, but after this game, I am hoping we do not get left out of the NCAA Tournament.

+1.....we'd better dramatically improve if we want a chance to win the Pac and go deep into the NCAA Tourney. We should be able to though as we have too much talent and a great Coach not to. BTFD Team!!!

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:52 am

While the Cats haven't looked great so far and yesterday was a complete embarrassment I think we as a collective board are being very dramatic. How do we go from everyone is a hater to let's hope we make the tournament. My goodness it is like we as a board are on our period with these mood swings. As for some comments in the in Game thread, totally disgusting that some of you call yourselves fans.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:12 am

Arizona vs Providence
today, 9:30 PM on ESP2, ESP3
Titan Gym, Fullerton, California

Providence
Friars
(5-0)

I'm looking for a better game tonight. Miller should have them prepped and ready to roll. Of course the injury wildcard always a game changer. It should be interesting to see how Cats respond.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:03 am

Im not worried about not making the tournament, barring a major injury. This is still a good but very flawed team. Flaws will improve and so will the team. With that said, id be lying if my expectations havent dropped quite a bit the last two games, and right now, we certainly arent playing like a top 15 team. My concerns have been compounded.

One big take away from last night: Ryan Anderson cannot be our go to guy. It worked last night at times, but until I see otherwise, he is just going to be a garbage guy who bangs, gets us boards, and finishes with dunks or around the rim on offensive rebounds. He put the ball on the floor several times and turned it over. His midrange game hasnt been good, and last night when we needed a big bucket the D sagged off and dared him to shoot and he shot and missed bad. His low post moves are not as advanced as ive seen. His free throw shooting has been shakey despite having a nice touch.

Im not going to overreact on the York thing. Hes gonna have good nights and bad nights like any college shooter. He figured it out at the end last night despite everyone wanting him murdered, which was one small positive in an otherwise horrible night. It paid off last night, but he needs to figure out that point when he needs to stop shooting and use his dribble drive to cut into the defense and either dish to the open guy, get a closer shot, or more inportantly, get to the foul line. He has that in his game and instead hes gets tunnel vision and thinks he is only a shooter.

On a night where we needed a Trier, he was on the bench. I didnt find his D to be completely attocious, but I would have liked him to have seen some minutes out there at the same time as Pitts giving his all guarding Kobe Jr. That was a game where we needed to focus on playing inside and putting the ball on the floor and grtting to the line.

Lastly, Tollefsen is a defensive liability. We all know that. We all know he needs to stop shooting 3s. His late foul that should have been the bullet to our head (thank God they choked both those freebies) and watching his defensive woes shows he is probably just a guy who doesn't have it all going for him upstairs, at least now that he is on a bigger stage playing for an elite program. What I do know is, we can turn what is otherwise a liability into a formidable offensive weapon. I pointed it out in the game thread: how many shots has this kid missed within 15 feet? He has the footwork, tools, and athleticism to be shifty and effective in there too. He isnt a banger, but put a man in front of him inside 15 and hes going to find a way to get by his man or knock down the shot if there is spacing. He has knocked down some tougher shots in that range too and uses the glass well. Playing outside the arc he is next to worthless at the 3, at least at the 4 it helps with spacing so there is that. The spacing is fine, but in those instances he needs to put the ball on the floor if thats available or pass, then cut inside for the return pass, or focus on finding the open spot within that 15 foot range like D Will used to do. He is a 9-11 ppg guy off the bench if he plays to his strengths. Obviously he needs to shoot to keep that spacing, but he needs to trim the attempts in half

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:16 am

This team seems a lot like the football team in that they have to be on offensively to control games.

We went up 17 early and we were executing well and then we began to struggle on O and our shifty defense let them roll.

I am a bit surprised our recruiting class has not contributed more (understanding the Smith injury). Simon can't get a minute on a team who can't or doesn't have a stopper. Treir gets a start and looks just lost.

We are left with 3 four year guys (lets face it, if a kid stays 4 years that is telling as to their upside it seems), a JUCO transfer and a WCC player along with a 3 star role player.

Providence, Michigan St and the Zags coming up. Kind of scary, lot of work to do

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:17 am

The Ristic thing is another that has been developing for a while. His limitations athletically are keeping him off the floor. We saw it in the Boise State game, but against quicker and/or smaller teams, or with teams with athletic 5s or 5s that can step out, he isnt going to be seeing major minutes. Did he even have any in the second half? Im not seeing the twin towers thing w him and Zeus working either except against the slowest of teams or in games against teams who want to play the slowdown game.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:30 am

Need trier to step it up on d. Need a guy who can get to the rim with regularity

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:20 am

azcat49 wrote:This team seems a lot like the football team in that they have to be on offensively to control games.

We went up 17 early and we were executing well and then we began to struggle on O and our shifty defense let them roll.

I am a bit surprised our recruiting class has not contributed more (understanding the Smith injury). Simon can't get a minute on a team who can't or doesn't have a stopper. Treir gets a start and looks just lost.

We are left with 3 four year guys (lets face it, if a kid stays 4 years that is telling as to their upside it seems), a JUCO transfer and a WCC player along with a 3 star role player.

Providence, Michigan St and the Zags coming up. Kind of scary, lot of work to do

This is undoubtedly a different team than we have been accustomed to, and their lack of defensive effectiveness has to have Miller's BP on red alert.

Not sure of the 3-star role player you are referring to? If it is Anderson, I disagree on that one... I think that kid is the best player on the team. Thank God we have him...

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:23 am

I think he was talking about Pitts

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:26 am

One thing that would help immediately:

I had numerous coaches absolutely outlaw shooting 3's early in the shot clock. It isn't a hard and fast rule, but we were firing with 20+ seconds left, and we could have gotten those same looks at any time in the shot clock. We aren't a good enough shooting team for a first available look. We need to work for better shots.

This also helps on D.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:46 am

The team defense was putrid again last night. It's going to be a common theme all year, IMO.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:50 am

Especially without Zeus.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:56 am

PHXCATS wrote:While the Cats haven't looked great so far and yesterday was a complete embarrassment I think we as a collective board are being very dramatic. How do we go from everyone is a hater to let's hope we make the tournament. My goodness it is like we as a board are on our period with these mood swings. As for some comments in the in Game thread, totally disgusting that some of you call yourselves fans.

By taking a tiny sample size in the heat of the moment and ascribing in to the "collective board." Most posters haven't said anything.

Game threads are like me when I watch games. Emotional. Then I calm down, like most people. Mistake to read too much into those.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:08 pm

TucsonClip wrote:The team defense was putrid again last night. It's going to be a common theme all year, IMO.

Miller's ability to teach D is going to be necessary this year. I'm not ready to cash it in on the year because there are so many new pieces, but to be really good, that area needs to start changing.

It was never going to be like the last few years. TJ, NJ, RHJ and AG were all all league (if not nationally) first team defenders.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:11 pm

RDeuce, agree on the Ryan Anderson take. We need to run offense, not have a "go-to" guy. Not now anyway. His drives from the wing are clunky and easy to defend. He needs to take the mid-range shot or move the ball. Can't force it, because he considers himself the go-to guy.

When we ran a play, he got a dunk. The point guards need to get the team into a play. Can't always wait for a TO and have the coach draw it up. Have to think like this all game long.

Trier is so important. Hope he has a good bounce-back game. His drives lead to putbacks and fouls.

Tollefsen needs to holster the shot for the first 15 seconds of a possession.

We've taken 99 threes, made 29. Opponents: 30-100. That's a push (and too many for a tall team). Gotta play inside out.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:33 pm

I think one major issue is that this team does not fit the style Miller wants to play. We are a poor defensive team. Miller stresses defense. The strength of this team is athleticism and offense(if you play the right guys). Adjustments to player minutes and substitutions need to be made.

What I don't understand is, why do we play guys who are "solid" on defense but limited on offense (Pitts), and sit guys who are good offensively but struggle on defense (Trier). It would have been nice to have Trier in for his offense in that second half. It didn't matter who was covering Brownridge. Pitts hustles and is an above-average defender. But he's not a shut-down guy. IMO there was no reason he should have had so many minutes while Trier sat and watched.

I'm not saying Pitts is useless. He a solid guy off the bench to give you some minutes and play hard. He is not a guy who should be playing 30 minutes a night.

The minutes breakdown is just silly:
Pitts 29
Tollefsen 28
Trier 12

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:58 pm

Defense isnt a style though BillK. It's not an option either. You come here and play defense. If you dont, you sit. If the whole team or at least majority don't you lose. this team has the pieces to be above average defensively, there is no excuse. No zone. Packline, it has worked and guys just need to learn how to defend individually and as a team. Only way that works and we get better is to learn playing man to man and improve. This team does not need to be a top 15 defense, but they do need to learn to not be completely putrid.

Offensively, Miller has adjusted. Tempo is up and we have done some nice things. The problem has been inconsistent shooting and guys being lazy and settling for shots they can get at any time in the shot clock, and then continuing to take them when they arent falling

Pitts didnt shut that guy down but he made him work. Other guys werent making him work. Pitts efforts did not go unnoticed. The dude gave it his all and looked like he was seconds from dying. Their guy took a ton of shots and had to work for a lot of them, without that work his legs are fresher and we lose that game. Ill take that effort and his shitty shooting over someone going out there and mailing it in, because im not seeing the same from most of our team and someone needs to lead so others can follow. The only complaint I had with the minutes was him staying out there and having to chase that dude around when he looked like he was going to die. But, Millers the coach and im not and theres a reason for that.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:02 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Defense isnt a style though BillK. It's not an option either. You come here and play defense. If you dont, you sit. If the whole team or at least majority don't you lose. this team has the pieces to be above average defensively, there is no excuse. No zone. Packline, it has worked and guys just need to learn how to defend individually and as a team. Only way that works and we get better is to learn playing man to man and improve. This team does not need to be a top 15 defense, but they do need to learn to not be completely putrid.

Offensively, Miller has adjusted. Tempo is up and we have done some nice things. The problem has been inconsistent shooting and guys being lazy and settling for shots they can get at any time in the shot clock, and then continuing to take them when they arent fouling.

Pitts didnt shut that guy down but he made him work. Other guys werent making him work. Pitts efforts did not go unnoticed. The dude gave it his all and looked like he was seconds from dying. Their guy took a ton of shots and had to work for a lot of them, without that work his legs are fresher and we lose that game. Ill take that effort and his shitty shooting over someone going out there and mailing it in, because im not seeing the same from most of our team and someone needs to lead so others can follow. The only complaint I had with the minutes was him staying out there and having to chase that dude around when he looked like he was going to die. But, Millers the coach and im not and theres a reason for that.

Very fair points. Just thought Trier was pulled very quickly after one or two mistakes. Let him learn the defense by giving him minutes. At the same time he improves our offense. Agree about Pitts....he did wear their guy out and I loved his effort. Just thought the minutes could have been spread out a little more.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:06 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Defense isnt a style though BillK. It's not an option either. You come here and play defense. If you dont, you sit. If the whole team or at least majority don't you lose. this team has the pieces to be above average defensively, there is no excuse. No zone. Packline, it has worked and guys just need to learn how to defend individually and as a team. Only way that works and we get better is to learn playing man to man and improve. This team does not need to be a top 15 defense, but they do need to learn to not be completely putrid.

Offensively, Miller has adjusted. Tempo is up and we have done some nice things. The problem has been inconsistent shooting and guys being lazy and settling for shots they can get at any time in the shot clock, and then continuing to take them when they arent falling

Pitts didnt shut that guy down but he made him work. Other guys werent making him work. Pitts efforts did not go unnoticed. The dude gave it his all and looked like he was seconds from dying. Their guy took a ton of shots and had to work for a lot of them, without that work his legs are fresher and we lose that game. Ill take that effort and his shitty shooting over someone going out there and mailing it in, because im not seeing the same from most of our team and someone needs to lead so others can follow. The only complaint I had with the minutes was him staying out there and having to chase that dude around when he looked like he was going to die. But, Millers the coach and im not and theres a reason for that.

Miller isn't playing to win the Wooden Legacy either. Sitting Trier sends a message he needs to get better on D. Over the course of the year, the people who respond and improve on D will get their time.

You don't play much for Miller if you don't prioritize D. Sitting guys until they get that message (even Stanley last year) is how you get a player's attention. Miller won't jeopardize that to beat Santa Clara.

The solution comes when Trier steps the D up.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:06 pm

I wanted Trier out there a little more too. I didnt see anything completely egregious on that end of the floor but I may have just missed it, or maybe that turnover when he drove into traffic did it. I do like the lesson though and hes not going to sacrific a lesson for a game this early in the year

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:19 pm

I don't think we're particularly athletic or quick. What is the athletic lineup?

Simon and Comanche instead of others?

az91 · Post by **az91** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:43 pm

rgdeuce wrote:The Ristic thing is another that has been developing for a while. His limitations athletically are keeping him off the floor. We saw it in the Boise State game, but against quicker and/or smaller teams, or with teams with athletic 5s or 5s that can step out, he isnt going to be seeing major minutes. Did he even have any in the second half? Im not seeing the twin towers thing w him and Zeus working either except against the slowest of teams or in games against teams who want to play the slowdown game.

+1, I'm glad someone else has realized that Ristic is very limited. It is very telling that he couldn't even get minutes against the stiff Santa Clara 5 when Zeus was hurt. It is difficult to believe that someone so athletically limited will ever be more than a 10 to 15 minute player in college let alone doing anything in the pros.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:45 pm

PHXCATS wrote:While the Cats haven't looked great so far and yesterday was a complete embarrassment I think we as a collective board are being very dramatic. How do we go from everyone is a hater to let's hope we make the tournament. My goodness it is like we as a board are on our period with these mood swings. As for some comments in the in Game thread, totally disgusting that some of you call yourselves fans.

Did you watch the game last night? It was "totally disgusting."

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:10 pm

Has facing Santa Clara in the first round of anything been a happy, happy, joy, joy kinda situation? I am unsurprised by the result.

Amused by the fact the York is kinda why the 'Cats won (and also could have lost). You could say he is Schrödingers Wildcat.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:18 pm

You know, once Tollefsen has a couple of years in the strength & conditioning program, he might be a great 6th man.

Oh .... uh .....

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:38 pm

We have some empty fucking uniforms playing minutes on this team.

WildcatRx · Post by **WildcatRx** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:40 pm

Would have been different with Zeus, but even so, this team is bad so far this year. Ouch.

KOQSTRONG · Post by **KOQSTRONG** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:45 pm

PJC should not be playing crunch time. And everyfuckingtime York takes a dumb shot, and it's a lot, it's an automatic layup down the other end. I didn't have huge expectations for this team but the past 2 night have beyond frustrating.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:48 pm

Zeus does so much for this team on offense and defense, maybe we shouldn't writeo ff this team yet

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:49 pm

This is going to be a very unpleasant year, especially with Zeus' ankle issues. Only one go to guy, Anderson, and he is a junkyard dog player.

Tollefson made a mistake coming to Arizona, and Arizona made a mistake taking him. As we learned with TJ, good 3 point shooters in lower level conferences don't make good 3 point shooters in power conferences.

Allen is what he is, a pretty good JC player.

Pitts can't score any more, even though his defense has picked up.

York is York, streaky, and now streaky bad.

Like the announcer said, this team really missed TJ.

Along with NBA talent.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:54 pm

Like I posted in the game thread, whoever hyped up the Tollefsen transfer should face a civil lawsuit for fraud. He is, so far, everything I hoped he wouldn't be--a stiff stick with poor judgment at both forward positions who thinks he has a shot (i.e. the three) he really doesn't.

York still has the same problem and has no business being given the green light he does. Both players were liable for most of the Providence and Santa Clara runs the last two nights. We had 37 turnovers officially, but their shot selection honestly made it almost 50.

If your senior guard, after four years in the program, isn't running the damn offense by making cuts, nor getting in others' face like TJ did and demanding they do so, it's going to be a long year--and I wouldn't be surprised a bit to see Boise beat us on Sunday. Why risk Kaleb for that one?

az91 · Post by **az91** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:54 pm

It is officially a down year. It is going to be a struggle throughout the season for this team. Unless you are Kentucky, you cannot lose four starters from the previous year and not have a drop-off. The PAC-12 might be weak enough for us to contend, but this team does not have a very high ceiling.

AZCatGirl · Post by **AZCatGirl** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:56 pm

We just can't afford injuries. We may have depth, but it's not the kind of depth that will help us win games.

It'll be interesting to see how the team responds to a loss. Especially if Zeus is still out.

WildcatRx · Post by **WildcatRx** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:56 pm

Haven't been able to keep up with the team as much this year, so just wondering is Justin Simon really that bad that he can't break into this line up?

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:58 pm

Didn't need to see this game to know this was going to be a "down year" especially when the one NBA player you have goes down like 2 weeks before the year. Said it before the season, i'd be very cool with a Sweet 16.

And yes, get Mark Tollefsen outta here. Flame away, don't care.

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