Moderators: UAdevil, JMarkJohns
You're absolutely right.JMarkJohns wrote:
Look at what Booker is doing for the Suns right now. You telling me it was best he be a role player for Kentucky last year rather than a star? Kid should have played 30 minutes and got 15 shots a night.
I could see it working, though I am not salivating over Alkins.JMarkJohns wrote:I'm of the mindset that a class of JJ/Kobi/RA simply cannot exist.
You figure Smith returning and there's some serious talent. Problem is, outside of Kentucky, who hasn't won when stacking talent like this yet, no team has had this many 6-4-6-8 players with that level of talent at once. Even if a lineup exists where KS/RA/JJ/RS all play 20+ together, I have to think it's one talent too many.
So, my thinking includes questions of what does this mean for JJ?
I'm already assuming this means Trier is gone. No way in hell outside of an All-Star game he plus those four are ever on the same team at same time.
Talent is good, but too much is bad.
Look at what Booker is doing for the Suns right now. You telling me it was best he be a role player for Kentucky last year rather than a star? Kid should have played 30 minutes and got 15 shots a night.
if nothing else, it could be a well-timed escape from the winter storms out east. dude is gonna flip out when he gets to campus. hope he stays for thursday's game. is he visiting with kobi?Merkin wrote:Beachcat97 wrote:Well, then it sure as hell does sound like he's interested. I mean, if his choices are NC State, St. John's, and AZ, which of these strikes you as the most appealing? Is it even close?ChooChooCat wrote:
Yes.
Starting to think this could happen.
Green grass, NYC or the desert? All seem pretty appealing if you are a college student.
However, if your primary desire is to make the NBA, then there are no other choices.
Alkins is from NYC, so I have to imagine that is a big deal for SJU.Merkin wrote:Beachcat97 wrote:Well, then it sure as hell does sound like he's interested. I mean, if his choices are NC State, St. John's, and AZ, which of these strikes you as the most appealing? Is it even close?ChooChooCat wrote:
Yes.
Starting to think this could happen.
Green grass, NYC or the desert? All seem pretty appealing if you are a college student.
However, if your primary desire is to make the NBA, then there are no other choices.
Agree with all points. Too many alphas with only one ball to go around. Jackson or Alkins makes the most sense.JMarkJohns wrote:I'm of the mindset that a class of JJ/Kobi/RA simply cannot exist.
You figure Smith returning and there's some serious talent. Problem is, outside of Kentucky, who hasn't won when stacking talent like this yet, no team has had this many 6-4-6-8 players with that level of talent at once. Even if a lineup exists where KS/RA/JJ/RS all play 20+ together, I have to think it's one talent too many.
So, my thinking includes questions of what does this mean for JJ?
I'm already assuming this means Trier is gone. No way in hell outside of an All-Star game he plus those four are ever on the same team at same time.
Talent is good, but too much is bad.
Look at what Booker is doing for the Suns right now. You telling me it was best he be a role player for Kentucky last year rather than a star? Kid should have played 30 minutes and got 15 shots a night.
They're competing for the same minutes. If we get JJ and RS, all 40 minutes at the 3 should be spoken for. If Trier returns, we are really looking at a backup 2 who can assist at other positions in a pinch. As different as Simon and Alkins are, they project to the same role.ChooChooCat wrote:I don't see the correlation between Simon and Alkins. You're talking about a scorer vs an utility player who won't even peak until he's an upperclassmen. Different strengths that compliment each other. Seems more like an issue that's not there. We're not debating Jackson vs Simon or another year of Trier vs Simon so I don't get the point here?
I agree that id rather have Trier than Alkins, but that's out of our hands.
Well that all goes back to the point of 1 of Jackson and Alkins and not both. No Jackson means Simon gets minutes at the 3 and no Alkins means Simon gets more time at the 2. Although if Trier does return and we get Jackson that's not going to leave a ton of minutes for Simon at either spot probably with Kadeem and Simmons likely earning minutes too.Spaceman Spiff wrote:They're competing for the same minutes. If we get JJ and RS, all 40 minutes at the 3 should be spoken for. If Trier returns, we are really looking at a backup 2 who can assist at other positions in a pinch. As different as Simon and Alkins are, they project to the same role.ChooChooCat wrote:I don't see the correlation between Simon and Alkins. You're talking about a scorer vs an utility player who won't even peak until he's an upperclassmen. Different strengths that compliment each other. Seems more like an issue that's not there. We're not debating Jackson vs Simon or another year of Trier vs Simon so I don't get the point here?
I agree that id rather have Trier than Alkins, but that's out of our hands.
Frankly, one reason I prefer Simon is we will have plenty of firepower if we land JJ and have him, Dusan, Trier, Smith and Allen to put up points. Markkanen is no slouch either. Alkins is used to having the ball, but an improved Simon who is used to Miller's D excites me more.
I'm thinking Alkins might mean no more Simon. That was all my basic point is, that if we land JJ, it's Simon or Alkins, not both. I'd prefer Simon.ChooChooCat wrote:Well that all goes back to the point of 1 of Jackson and Alkins and not both. No Jackson means Simon gets minutes at the 3 and no Alkins means Simon gets more time at the 2. Although if Trier does return and we get Jackson that's not going to leave a ton of minutes for Simon at either spot probably with Kadeem and Simmons likely earning minutes too.Spaceman Spiff wrote:They're competing for the same minutes. If we get JJ and RS, all 40 minutes at the 3 should be spoken for. If Trier returns, we are really looking at a backup 2 who can assist at other positions in a pinch. As different as Simon and Alkins are, they project to the same role.ChooChooCat wrote:I don't see the correlation between Simon and Alkins. You're talking about a scorer vs an utility player who won't even peak until he's an upperclassmen. Different strengths that compliment each other. Seems more like an issue that's not there. We're not debating Jackson vs Simon or another year of Trier vs Simon so I don't get the point here?
I agree that id rather have Trier than Alkins, but that's out of our hands.
Frankly, one reason I prefer Simon is we will have plenty of firepower if we land JJ and have him, Dusan, Trier, Smith and Allen to put up points. Markkanen is no slouch either. Alkins is used to having the ball, but an improved Simon who is used to Miller's D excites me more.
This is a historically thin draft, whereas the year after may be historically deep.84Cat wrote:Why would Trier leave? He is injured and not on any draft boards currently. He would have to really blow up to even get drafted.
I can't imagine that Pitts plays another game in an Arizona uniform. I'm not going to speculate on his issues, but it might be best for him to transfer and get a fresh start somewhere.84Cat wrote:Yeah, that is loaded assuming we get JJ. It will be interesting to see what happens with Pitts. I can't imagine he plays again this year. Such a strange situation unless his grades are really bad.
Undoubtedly the weirdest situation I can recall.....especially after reading the article today from the Star. Doesn't sound like grades or an injury.......and CSM stating how he's practicing with the team and that we could use his defense.......strange is an understatement.az91 wrote:I can't imagine that Pitts plays another game in an Arizona uniform. I'm not going to speculate on his issues, but it might be best for him to transfer and get a fresh start somewhere.84Cat wrote:Yeah, that is loaded assuming we get JJ. It will be interesting to see what happens with Pitts. I can't imagine he plays again this year. Such a strange situation unless his grades are really bad.
Here's the thing:Harvey Specter wrote: If we land either one of them, this class will be lights out and I will be ecstatic. JJ is the priority, but Alkins would be a terrific get and should position us to contend next season as well.
Absolutely not. LM better than JJ??? CSM has never insinuated that, nor would he because that would be fucking crazy talkBeermancats wrote:I love the speculation on our lineup for next year, but I think the majority of you guys are overlooking LM, big time. I don't see a situation where he isn't starting next year. He might be the best player on the team even with AT returning, a healthy RS, and JJ.
Without actually saying it, CSM insinuated that LM would be ranked in the top 5, maybe number 1, had he been a US high school student.
First of all, I said MIGHT.dcZONAfan wrote:Absolutely not. LM better than JJ??? CSM has never insinuated that, nor would he because that would be fucking crazy talkBeermancats wrote:I love the speculation on our lineup for next year, but I think the majority of you guys are overlooking LM, big time. I don't see a situation where he isn't starting next year. He might be the best player on the team even with AT returning, a healthy RS, and JJ.
Without actually saying it, CSM insinuated that LM would be ranked in the top 5, maybe number 1, had he been a US high school student.
RA's interest in Arizona appears to be heating up. (without any inside info)Beachcat97 wrote:Well, then it sure as hell does sound like he's interested. I mean, if his choices are NC State, St. John's, and AZ, which of these strikes you as the most appealing? Is it even close?ChooChooCat wrote:
Yes.
Starting to think this could happen.
Agreed, especially considering he's using his own funds for an unofficial visit to see us go duck hunting on Thursday. Anyone know why this isn't an official visit instead? Didn't do much research but from 247 sports they only had a visit to UK listed.......anyone have anything to add here?HiCat wrote:RA's interest in Arizona appears to be heating up. (without any inside info)Beachcat97 wrote:Well, then it sure as hell does sound like he's interested. I mean, if his choices are NC State, St. John's, and AZ, which of these strikes you as the most appealing? Is it even close?ChooChooCat wrote:
Yes.
Starting to think this could happen.
I know what you said. And I have seen that video. And I couldn't disagree with you more. There's NO chance Lauri MIGHT be the best player on the team next year. Coach speak is a very real thing. CSM is the best at coach speak. And he is coach speaking about Lauri. Doesn't mean he's not a great player with a TON of potential and hopefully an impact player right away, but JJ is a #1 draft pick in a LOADED draft type that is on another level from LM.Beermancats wrote:First of all, I said MIGHT.dcZONAfan wrote:Absolutely not. LM better than JJ??? CSM has never insinuated that, nor would he because that would be fucking crazy talkBeermancats wrote:I love the speculation on our lineup for next year, but I think the majority of you guys are overlooking LM, big time. I don't see a situation where he isn't starting next year. He might be the best player on the team even with AT returning, a healthy RS, and JJ.
Without actually saying it, CSM insinuated that LM would be ranked in the top 5, maybe number 1, had he been a US high school student.
Secondly, Check out the video of CSM discussing LM.
http://watch.scout.com/video-sean-mille ... -markkanan" target="_blank
At the :30 mark, he states that LM is as talented as any player he has recruited while at Arizona.
At the very end he talks about where LM would be ranked if he were a United States HS prospect. In my opinion, he is holding back from saying that he would be rated as the number 1 overall player and At the very least a top 5 prospect.
Even being the #3 pick in next year's draft is a ridiculous accomplishment based on the talent in next year's draft. Honestly that's probably JJ's worse case scenario.Puerco wrote:The JJ talk might be getting a bit hyperbolic. He might be great, but at this point in time it's not even certain he's the top freshman coming in 2016.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/baske ... class/2016
So projecting him as the #1 pick in the draft the year after is maybe a bit premature.
Agreed. And when you consider how laser focused AT is on making it to the NBA, I really believe he is going to be gone after this year. That is why I hope the staff can close the deal with RA on this visit!!!rgdeuce wrote:
And JMARK is right, this may be a situation where Trier bolts for the factors he mentioned. It could be a leave now, or have to wait two more years scenario to avoid that deep 2017 draft class.
It's fine if you don't agree about LM possibly being the best player on the team. CSM and I won't hold that against you. Haha. However, the main point I was trying to make is that LM is still being overlooked by Arizona fans. I'm fairly certain he will be starting no matter who else Arizona adds.dcZONAfan wrote:I know what you said. And I have seen that video. And I couldn't disagree with you more. There's NO chance Lauri MIGHT be the best player on the team next year. Coach speak is a very real thing. CSM is the best at coach speak. And he is coach speaking about Lauri. Doesn't mean he's not a great player with a TON of potential and hopefully an impact player right away, but JJ is a #1 draft pick in a LOADED draft type that is on another level from LM.Beermancats wrote:First of all, I said MIGHT.dcZONAfan wrote:Absolutely not. LM better than JJ??? CSM has never insinuated that, nor would he because that would be fucking crazy talkBeermancats wrote:I love the speculation on our lineup for next year, but I think the majority of you guys are overlooking LM, big time. I don't see a situation where he isn't starting next year. He might be the best player on the team even with AT returning, a healthy RS, and JJ.
Without actually saying it, CSM insinuated that LM would be ranked in the top 5, maybe number 1, had he been a US high school student.
Secondly, Check out the video of CSM discussing LM.
http://watch.scout.com/video-sean-mille ... -markkanan" target="_blank
At the :30 mark, he states that LM is as talented as any player he has recruited while at Arizona.
At the very end he talks about where LM would be ranked if he were a United States HS prospect. In my opinion, he is holding back from saying that he would be rated as the number 1 overall player and At the very least a top 5 prospect.
From what I've seen, and not just on this board, the majority of fans (not all) are projecting a starting lineup ofrgdeuce wrote:How is he being overlooked though? People here are excited about him. Pretty much all of us have been projecting him as a starter on a team that will be preseason top 3 (possibly #1) if we land JJ. But LM could also very well be the 3rd or 4th best freshman on next year's team
Rawle Alkins is also a terrific defender per Jonathan Givony and you can definitely make the argument he's a better offensive player than JJ. Obviously JJ's ceiling as both a defender and player is higher than Rawle's, but the point is the difference between JJ and RA that you're talking about really doesn't exist. If I'm a NBA team there's no debate about who I'm picking here here, but we're talking about a couple of likely one and dones and really this is all about college need. I see the argument for either here honestly and the argument for both (although I think one is better than both). With the possibility of Trier leaving and other transfers we may need both. Also if we don't get JJ then chances are MSU nor any other college gets him either, but that's neither here nor there.dcZONAfan wrote:Here's the thing:Harvey Specter wrote: If we land either one of them, this class will be lights out and I will be ecstatic. JJ is the priority, but Alkins would be a terrific get and should position us to contend next season as well.
I don't want to just "contend" next year. I want to kill everybody. After the last two years where we just got so unlucky, and with MORE injuries this year I don't want to take chances. I want to be undoubtedly the best team in the country like we were two years ago before BA went down because, god dammit, can't we have a healthy season??
JJ LOVES to play defense, WANTS to play defense, maybe the next RHJ or AG in this defense.......BUT he is one of the most talented and skilled offensive players we could imagine.
So, think about that. If either AG or RHJ was on that level offensively, either of the last two teams would have certainly made a final four and probably won the championship. That's the difference between JJ and RA, and that's why we need JJ.
Especially because if we don't get him he is at MSU and THEY are probably the favorites to start the season
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rawle-Alkins-82169/" target="_blankTaking this setting very seriously, Alkins impressed on the offensive end with his ability to finish at the rim, create off the bounce, and move the ball to keep the offense flowing. He has a low, but consistent release point that allows him to knock down perimeter shots at a nice rate, and while he could stand to improve his ball handling ability, has a nice package of offensive tools.
Perhaps more importantly, Alkins is a terrific defender, using his strength and lateral quickness to hound ball handlers, crashing the glass at a terrific rate for a guard, and even providing some rim protection over his time here thanks to his terrific leaping ability. All-in-all, Alkins was arguably the most consistently impressive player we saw in Treviso.
LM will make an immediate impact, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that. I don't know if he starts, but he sure will make an impact, he's way too skilled offensively not to.dirtbags wrote:different kinds of "best". whereas it is anticipated that JJ will make an immediate impact, lauri is more about upside. granted, he's got great basketball IQ (thanks, dad) and is a beast inside & out but LM looks a lot like bash did in high hs videos -- that is, seldom tested and dominating against 15-18 year olds. we'll see how he adjusts to the american college game (with mentoring from dusan), picks up Miller's system, and learns to hold his own down low against much more physical competition. we can't expect him to be another ryan anderson on day one, though. they're different types of PFs, yes, but expecting the same production from LM from the get-go as we get from RA might be asking a bit much.
btw, if asu were to sign thon maker, how much fun is it going to be watching him battle our two 7-footers next season??
I don't think Trier is a first rounder (and not particularly on the 2016 first round radar) right now. What is going to change?Beachcat97 wrote:Oh, I'm fully expecting Trier is gone. He's a damn good player, and this draft is weak. He'll be a first-round pick.
As for JJ, some here have compared him to Andrew Wiggins.
For kids to take official visits they have to get a lot of ducks in a row academically. It has something to do with the timing of when he took his SAT I believe or something of that nature. He'll be able to take officials eventually, but not yet.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Agreed, especially considering he's using his own funds for an unofficial visit to see us go duck hunting on Thursday. Anyone know why this isn't an official visit instead? Didn't do much research but from 247 sports they only had a visit to UK listed.......anyone have anything to add here?HiCat wrote:RA's interest in Arizona appears to be heating up. (without any inside info)Beachcat97 wrote:Well, then it sure as hell does sound like he's interested. I mean, if his choices are NC State, St. John's, and AZ, which of these strikes you as the most appealing? Is it even close?ChooChooCat wrote:
Yes.
Starting to think this could happen.
Still think our chances are slim, but I do know that Miller is a witch!
If he has a strong tournament that's all it would take to launch him into the first round if he's not considered a first rounder already by NBA teams.JMarkJohns wrote:I actually do think Trier is a 1st rounder. I think great teams with a 1st would line up to select him. He's proven to have developing skills that fit modern analytic basketball, in that he shoots it well from deep and get to the FT line at a high rate and can score in bursts despite not having an overwhelming usage rate.
He's got a few things against him. If he was 6-7 he'd go lottery. But 6-4 guards are a norm anymore, even at SG it's pretty common.
This is like comparing Dwayne Bacon to Ben Simmons....One is an ELITE Superstar, the other is a good freshman. The difference is a lot bigger than you are alluding too. Jerry Meyer who has been doing this scouting thing for a long time has said Jackson is the best SG he has covered in his time scouting. Jackson is ranked #1 in one of the best recruiting classes in history. Jackson is that good and he is that good NOW.ChooChooCat wrote:
Rawle Alkins is also a terrific defender per Jonathan Givony and you can definitely make the argument he's a better offensive player than JJ. Obviously JJ's ceiling as both a defender and player is higher than Rawle's, but the point is the difference between JJ and RA that you're talking about really doesn't exist.
THISgronk4heisman wrote: This is like comparing Dwayne Bacon to Ben Simmons....One is an ELITE Superstar, the other is a good freshman. The difference is a lot bigger than you are alluding too. Jerry Meyer who has been doing this scouting thing for a long time has said Jackson is the best SG he has covered in his time scouting. Jackson is ranked #1 in one of the best recruiting classes in history. Jackson is that good and he is that good NOW.
ChooChooCat wrote:For kids to take official visits they have to get a lot of ducks in a row academically. It has something to do with the timing of when he took his SAT I believe or something of that nature. He'll be able to take officials eventually, but not yet.Bangkok Wildcat wrote: Agreed, especially considering he's using his own funds for an unofficial visit to see us go duck hunting on Thursday. Anyone know why this isn't an official visit instead? Didn't do much research but from 247 sports they only had a visit to UK listed.......anyone have anything to add here?
Still think our chances are slim, but I do know that Miller is a witch!
Nah, but there's a huge leap between being the non-unanimous best player in your high school class and the top pick in the NBA draft. Lots of competition and games to be played between the two events.rgdeuce wrote:You gonna trust ESPN's class rankings that have him at #3? Or the composite ranking of #1? Regardless, when people are handing out Andrew Wiggins and Tracy McGrady comps, it's hard to imagine more than a guy or two being a better freshman next season, if any at all. There is going to be more of an adjustment for LM playing in a different country and a different type of game. Defensively, how is he going to do? Bigs typically dont hit the ground running as quick as wings either. Obviously he has a lot of upside and promise, and the is talent there, but we are talking about two different types of prospects here. One is a guy projected to be a likely first rd pick at some point, the other is projected to be an NBA superstar.
And JMARK is right, this may be a situation where Trier bolts for the factors he mentioned. It could be a leave now, or have to wait two more years scenario to avoid that deep 2017 draft class.
His primary argument was Jackson loves and wants to play defense, which would infer that Alkins doesn't, that's all I was getting at. I fully comprehend that one player is a future NBA All Star and the other is likely a future possible NBA starter/role player.gronk4heisman wrote:This is like comparing Dwayne Bacon to Ben Simmons....One is an ELITE Superstar, the other is a good freshman. The difference is a lot bigger than you are alluding too. Jerry Meyer who has been doing this scouting thing for a long time has said Jackson is the best SG he has covered in his time scouting. Jackson is ranked #1 in one of the best recruiting classes in history. Jackson is that good and he is that good NOW.ChooChooCat wrote:
Rawle Alkins is also a terrific defender per Jonathan Givony and you can definitely make the argument he's a better offensive player than JJ. Obviously JJ's ceiling as both a defender and player is higher than Rawle's, but the point is the difference between JJ and RA that you're talking about really doesn't exist.
No, my primary argument was that the last few years our superstar defensive players didn't have the all-around offensive firepower that it would appear JJ has and that's what was missing. If RHJ was the same defensive player but had Trier's offense, maybe we beat Wisconsin last year. Same with AG and the year before.ChooChooCat wrote:
His primary argument was Jackson loves and wants to play defense, which would infer that Alkins doesn't, that's all I was getting at. I fully comprehend that one player is a future NBA All Star and the other is likely a future possible NBA starter/role player.
See, I'm just not sure. If you compare Allonzo to guys like Grayson Allen or Dwayne Bacon, does he rise above them? Neither of them are 2016 first rounders at this point. The more the hand reduces his sample size, the more he has to prove.JMarkJohns wrote:I actually do think Trier is a 1st rounder. I think great teams with a 1st would line up to select him. He's proven to have developing skills that fit modern analytic basketball, in that he shoots it well from deep and get to the FT line at a high rate and can score in bursts despite not having an overwhelming usage rate.
He's got a few things against him. If he was 6-7 he'd go lottery. But 6-4 guards are a norm anymore, even at SG it's pretty common.
