Really like this team

[Longhorned]

Russia will blow us up sometime between either next week or the week following.

[qwertyus]

Russia will blow us up sometime between either next week or the week following.

Yup. WWIII unless we hear some news on Trier.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Sure, we beat the zags and we finish 2nd in the conference

Disagree on both, especially the latter pick, which you have to know is not happening. But we'll see.

For once, I agree with Beachcat, at least on the second part. I think we beat Gonzaga and finish 1st in the PAC. Oregon looks beatable, and Alford's teams are never as good as their talent would indicate.

I don't know how you can predict at this point. Trier is such a massive variable.

We may or may not have our best player in the lineup. Our fortunes are completely intertwined with that. I would say we are favorites vs Zaga and in the Pac with Zo.

I can predict all I want. It's not going to change what happens. Beachcat and I both don't see us as 2nd in the PAC. I see us in 1st, he sees us 3rd or worse. Neither prediction will change what happens.

I agree that this team is much improved with Trier. I think the most growth in this team will come from improved play from the bigs. We got into so much foul trouble against Butler, and it was because we played 4 guards that we lost the game in the last minutes. We'll need Pinder, Chance, Ristic, and LM to play smart and play hard. Yeah, LM puts up gaudy numbers and is a special player, but even he was doomed by ticky-tack fouls. Ristic still isn't as good defensively as I think any of us would like. Chance, by contrast, needs to work on his offensive game. Pinder, for all his energy, is a reincarnation of Jesse Perry, so while he'll give us a big boost, we'll need more than just heart to win.

Trier coming back is a big lift, but it's the bigs that are going to make or break us.

I didn't mean you as in you personally. Sorry.

I just see Trier as mattering a whole lot to the outcome.

[Jefe]

I like this team too. Bigger picture: this is a bubble team. We're going to lose 6 to 8 games in the Pac, finish between 3rd and 5th, lose in the semis of the Pac tourney, and probably lose in the round of 32. It's a tough pill, given what we could've been with Ray and Zo. Maybe Ayton and next year's class can get us back to the S-16.

Never go full scumdevils

[Beachcat97]

I like this team too. Bigger picture: this is a bubble team. We're going to lose 6 to 8 games in the Pac, finish between 3rd and 5th, lose in the semis of the Pac tourney, and probably lose in the round of 32. It's a tough pill, given what we could've been with Ray and Zo. Maybe Ayton and next year's class can get us back to the S-16.

Never go full scumdevils

I don't even know what that means.

Some of the "AT's coming back!" crowd aren't even really considering how long it could take him to mesh with this year's team. Regardless of whether he's practicing, he's now missed an entire month of the actual season. Those in-game reps are obviously a big part of how players and teams develop. So the longer this super top secret scandal gets dragged out, the later in the season it's going to be that the team can log game time with AT. I'd love to think that we can just add him to the mix in late February and roll into the S-16, but that's foolish. Our four guard rotation is what it is, and it's not a bad group. KA is one of the better defensive players in the Pac, KS is turning out to have a bigger impact than some expected, and PJC is off to his best start to any season.

Anyway, if AT actually doesn't play this year, it's fairly shocking, considering that he could've been drafted this past summer. The scandal must've come out of nowhere. Coast must've been entirely clear in June.

You have to wonder, too, if AT is talking to any pro teams overseas, perhaps with an eye towards playing some actual high-level ball this year and even getting paid to do it. Might be preferable to waiting for the NCAA.

This team can get to the tourney without AT; they just won't do much more than that.

[Chicat]

Jeff Goodman?

Heh...

[splitsecond]

All that said, I do like this team, regardless of how low in the Pac they're going to finish. Not always about wins and losses.

Is this what you tell your wife's son to lift his spirits?

[rgdeuce]

I agree that this team is much improved with Trier. I think the most growth in this team will come from improved play from the bigs. We got into so much foul trouble against Butler, and it was because we played 4 guards that we lost the game in the last minutes. We'll need Pinder, Chance, Ristic, and LM to play smart and play hard. Yeah, LM puts up gaudy numbers and is a special player, but even he was doomed by ticky-tack fouls. Ristic still isn't as good defensively as I think any of us would like. Chance, by contrast, needs to work on his offensive game. Pinder, for all his energy, is a reincarnation of Jesse Perry, so while he'll give us a big boost, we'll need more than just heart to win.

Trier coming back is a big lift, but it's the bigs that are going to make or break us.

I think our bigs have done all you can ask from them at this point. Ristic hasn't been consistent, but more times than not he has been good. Lauri has exceeded all expectations, which were already very high for some of us. I disagree with the assessment of Chance's offensive game; my only gripe about his offensive game has been his three offensive fouls (two were flops, really) when he throws that left arm back into the defender and up high. Chance could do a lot more offensively if it was asked of him, but that is not his role right now and his teammates don't really exhibit a concerted effort to get him the ball down low.

Butler is a very good team. With that said, 1) they hit unbelievable shots most of the night and played their A game; and 2) we got completely jobbed by the officials. Our best player was in for a huge game and the refs completely removed him from the floor and then from the game with still a lot of time left. Then there were some ridiculous calls late that erased a 3-point play that would have probably iced the game for us and then they gave them a bogus 3-point play on the other end. Big picture, we were down our two best players (both All American caliber) minus the first 10 minutes or so for Lauri (who couldnt be the same after bc of the foul trouble), they brought their A-game and they still needed to be the beneficiaries of multiple ridiculous calls within the last two minutes to beat us away from McKale. Not to mention that team was loaded with experience and a lot of our team are still getting their feet wet. That speaks volumes to me. I don't think this team needs anyone to "step up" as much as it is a case of "get better every day."

[rgdeuce]

We're now starting to appear in rankings closer to where we really are, nationally. 16th in the AP now, which is too high, and Jeff Goodman left us out of his top 25 power rankings. Goodman pays close attention to AZ hoops, so this isn't some sort of slight. He knows about our unfortunate roster situation and sees what we are: a team that should be ranked somewhere between 20th and 30th nationally.

On the Pac race, OR will get well and make a run, but right now, it's UCLA way ahead of everyone else. There'll be more drama among teams fighting for 2nd through 5th. AZ will finish between 3rd and 5th. And Zaga is going to beat us on Saturday.

Jeff Goodman is also an idiot and a self-hating Wildcat. He kept those TJ McConnell, Rondae, Nick Johnson, Zeus, Bash, Stanley, etc. teams out of his top 10 for the longest time, until everyone else had multiple losses and we were still cruising. We aren't a 20-30 team even without Trier. We are a super talented and dangerous team that are going to hit some bumps because of our youth. People are selling Lauri waaaaay too short in all of this. The kid is a star. The Butler game was his coming out against a high-quality team game and he showed it early, only to be removed from the game.

UCLA has a talented team but they have had the benefit of having all of their right pieces in place from the jump. They aren't god-tier. They are beating cream puffs (outside of A and M in Pauley), but lets see how things get when you throw a great team at them and they start to face some adversity and nepotism starts fighting with the other guards over shots. People forget how Oregon started last year and they are down a very key guy right now. I still think they are going to finish ahead of UCLA in the conference and if we have Trier, I expect us to be in a 3-way dog fight with those two schools for the conference championship. Without Trier, I still see us as the 3rd best team in the Pac.

[EVCat]

I'd love to think that we can just add him to the mix in late February and roll into the S-16, but that's foolish.

The point everyone is trying to make...and that "everyone" is pretty astute in unison....is that it is not foolish to picture this team making the Sweet 16 with Trier if Trier joins the day before the Sweet 16...because this team is right about a 32/16 team without him.

The part that is foolish is that this team is a "bubble" team. Without Trier, this is a 2nd or 3rd place team in the PAC. The 5th or 6th place team in the PAC will be a "bubble" team. Barring additional injury (not part of your evaluation), saying this team is a "bubble team" is where you were either woefully misreading this team, being troll-like as part of this odd little game of being Percy-light meets Triangle-and-Too, or just looking to start an argument (which, I guess, is the same as #2).

No pundit in this great land of ours not named Beachcat97 would put the Cats right now in the 41st to 45th best team in the land, which would be "the bubble". At worst, with our current roster and no Trier, we are a 6 seed, maybe 7 if we have another minor injury. Period. Nothing short of a total loss of healthy personnel puts this team anywhere near any bubbles. You use that word like you know what it consists of. Vanderbilt last year...that was a bubble team. We'd beat that Vandy team by 15. Wichita St was poorly seeded, and that only happens to you when you play at a mid major...us majors tend to get seeded way higher than we should (Oregon St at 8 was one particular joke). Maybe we get a 5 when we thought we had a 4, but Arizona, in the PAC 12, with anything better than a disastrous season, winds up as at least a 7 seed, likely a 5 seed, and with Trier, a contender for a 2 to 4 seed.

So, yeah...it is "foolish"....foolish to talk about the team we have now with the best PF in the game, a strong senior leader, the best trio of freshmen in the West and maybe the nation, and a frontcourt of Ristic/Markkanen/Comanche with a space eater like Pinder and wings like Alkins and Simmons and KaDeem, as a "bubble" team. The team, as it exists right now, has 2 or 3 NBA players on it (Markkanen, Comanche, Simmons) and a number of Euro pros. This is not a bubble team.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I like this team too. Bigger picture: this is a bubble team. We're going to lose 6 to 8 games in the Pac, finish between 3rd and 5th, lose in the semis of the Pac tourney, and probably lose in the round of 32. It's a tough pill, given what we could've been with Ray and Zo. Maybe Ayton and next year's class can get us back to the S-16.

Never go full scumdevils

I don't even know what that means.

Some of the "AT's coming back!" crowd aren't even really considering how long it could take him to mesh with this year's team. Regardless of whether he's practicing, he's now missed an entire month of the actual season. Those in-game reps are obviously a big part of how players and teams develop. So the longer this super top secret scandal gets dragged out, the later in the season it's going to be that the team can log game time with AT. I'd love to think that we can just add him to the mix in late February and roll into the S-16, but that's foolish. Our four guard rotation is what it is, and it's not a bad group. KA is one of the better defensive players in the Pac, KS is turning out to have a bigger impact than some expected, and PJC is off to his best start to any season.

Anyway, if AT actually doesn't play this year, it's fairly shocking, considering that he could've been drafted this past summer. The scandal must've come out of nowhere. Coast must've been entirely clear in June.

You have to wonder, too, if AT is talking to any pro teams overseas, perhaps with an eye towards playing some actual high-level ball this year and even getting paid to do it. Might be preferable to waiting for the NCAA.

This team can get to the tourney without AT; they just won't do much more than that.

I seriously do not understand why someone would post this.

If Trier was talking to pro teams, why would he be in Tucson? What would he be waiting for? The fact that he's here tells you what his priority is.

I don't understand the point of talking about a late Februrary return in November.

Our 2008-09 team made the Sweet 16. This team is far stronger. The tourney isn't all about talent unless you want to go to the final four. A sober take would be that we aren't a FF team minus Trier.

[rgdeuce]

^^ and our 2010-2011 team was inches away from a final four and I think this team is shaping up to be a better team than them. Lauri is more than capable of having a Derrick Williams first half against a top 3 seed and the surrounding cast is better.

[Beachcat97]

We have no three point shooters, Ristic seems to be getting worse, and we're not a good defensive team. LM is a heck of a player, yes, and our guards are solid. But put us against a good team like Butler or Zaga, and you see what happens.

It's fine, guys. Every good program has a down year. Next year will be better.

[gumby]

Up four on Butler late without our best guard, and LM on the bench. Butler just dominated Utah at Utah.

Maybe next year ... because young players never get better.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We have no three point shooters, Ristic seems to be getting worse, and we're not a good defensive team. LM is a heck of a player, yes, and our guards are solid. But put us against a good team like Butler or Zaga, and you see what happens.

It's fine, guys. Every good program has a down year. Next year will be better.

Lauri is shooting 40% from 3, and Kobi and Rawle are 37%.

Our D efficiency was heavily affected by the Butler reffing, but we are still less than disastrous nationally at 57th. Peep the difference between our mean and the d efficiency in the last game.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... efficiency" target="_blank

I don't see why we don't just forfeit the rest of the year.

[gumby]

We're now starting to appear in rankings closer to where we really are, nationally. 16th in the AP now, which is too high, and Jeff Goodman left us out of his top 25 power rankings. Goodman pays close attention to AZ hoops, so this isn't some sort of slight. He knows about our unfortunate roster situation and sees what we are: a team that should be ranked somewhere between 20th and 30th nationally.

If that's where we should be, that's not the bubble. That's 5 to 7 seed territory.

[pokinmik]

I'm all for a ban of Beachcat. He used to be a harmless weirdo homer with a UCLA obsession, now he's devolved into some troll parody of his former self. Or maybe I should ignore him I guess or skip any thread he's involved in. Just getting sick of reading his nonsense and it is pointless for you guys to respond to him.

[gumby]

"Heh" ... would be an upgrade.

[Chicat]

I'm all for a ban of Beachcat. He used to be a harmless weirdo homer with a UCLA obsession, now he's devolved into some troll parody of his former self. Or maybe I should ignore him I guess or skip any thread he's involved in. Just getting sick of reading his nonsense and it is pointless for you guys to respond to him.

You're not a fan of people who troll for negative attention and constantly post ridiculous, borderline retarded takes just to get a response?

I just put RiversideBruin97 (the poster formerly known as Beachcat97) back on ignore. Not sure why I ever took him off.

[scumdevils86]

*peeks into thread*

*slowly backs away*

[Beachcat97]

Nobody's getting banned. Settle down.

Keep the focus on hoops. How do we match up with Gonzaga?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Gonzaga isn't our next opponent.

[Beachcat97]

Gonzaga isn't our next opponent.

Right, but it's probably the bigger game we play this week. I don't expect we're going to struggle too greatly vs. TSU, but then, who knows?

[gumby]

Nobody's getting banned. Settle down.

Keep the focus on hoops. How do we match up with Gonzaga?

White on White Death.

[Bear Down Vegas]

The point everyone is trying to make...and that "everyone" is pretty astute in unison...is that it is not foolish to picture this team making the Sweet 16 with Trier if Trier joins the day before the Sweet 16 because this team is right about a 32/16 team without him.

The part that is foolish is that this team is a "bubble" team. Without Trier, this is a 2nd or 3rd place team in the PAC. The 5th or 6th place team in the PAC will be a "bubble" team...No pundit in this great land of ours not named Beachcat97 would put the Cats right now in the 41st to 45th best team in the land, which would be "the bubble".... This is not a bubble team.

Beach Cat. Listen man. You're right, we're not going to ban you....but this abbreviated post from earlier in the thread from EVCat (who posts much better than me) sums up the latest in your "overstepping". It's simple. You are a crazy person. That's ok. We're all a little nutty when it comes to the team or we wouldn't be here. But yo...

Just take a second to take it in. It's that easy I think. Go Cats!


(Intervention over)

[EVCat]

We have no great shooters.

We have shooters. People who can make a 3 point shot.

Next year will likely be better. But that doesn't make saying this is a bubble team any less asinine. Anything can happen...we could lose 5 players and be out of the tournament. We could get hot and win the title. The season could be cancelled for war. Who knows?

But based on actual evaluation of the talent as it exists, saying this is a bubble team is even a bit more ridiculous than saying this is a Final Four team. The former is ludicrous and is not going to happen without major personnel loss; the latter is actually possible, if improbable.

So you can pretty it up and say "it's all right guys...this isn't our year" and in one post talk about how we are a great team and Trier will get us to the Final Four and in the next say we are a bubble team, and then wait for another thread for you to say without Trier we should still win the PAC just to wait two days for a thread where with Trier you will say we still don't have "ANY" three point shooters and will be lucky to win 9 games...

...because you don't have a clue and just fly around like a piece of paper in the wind. Whatever weird thought gets in your head that day becomes your troll until the next weird thought jumps in...

At this point, you are only trying to cause argument, and not constructive "where are we going?" argument. You have decided to become some kind of passive-aggressive troll in "aw, shucks guys" character. We get it. Stop, please.

[Beachcat97]

The point everyone is trying to make...and that "everyone" is pretty astute in unison...is that it is not foolish to picture this team making the Sweet 16 with Trier if Trier joins the day before the Sweet 16 because this team is right about a 32/16 team without him.

The part that is foolish is that this team is a "bubble" team. Without Trier, this is a 2nd or 3rd place team in the PAC. The 5th or 6th place team in the PAC will be a "bubble" team...No pundit in this great land of ours not named Beachcat97 would put the Cats right now in the 41st to 45th best team in the land, which would be "the bubble".... This is not a bubble team.

Beach Cat. Listen man. You're right, we're not going to ban you....but this abbreviated post from earlier in the thread from EVCat (who posts much better than me) sums up the latest in your "overstepping". It's simple. You are a crazy person. That's ok. We're all a little nutty when it comes to the team or we wouldn't be here. But yo...

Just take a second to take it in. It's that easy I think. Go Cats!


(Intervention over)

Fair enough.

I know I go a little nutty. I want the Cats to win, and it sucks when they don't. And it sucks when our best player is ineligible. And when our star forward has a career ending injury. And when our 5 star commit doesn't qualify. It's really, really crazy the difference between this:

PJC
KA
RA
LM
DR

And this:

PJC
AT/KA
TF/RS
LM
DR

I mean, if the latter had happened, KS and RA would barely be seeing the floor this year.

Anyway, in spite of the unbelievable misfortune, I still like this team. They play hard, they seem to like playing together, and they're going to win 20+ games this year. All is not lost. It's just necessary to recalibrate expectations, which AZ fans don't like doing. CSM has impressively maintained the high standard that Lute put in place, and we expect to be at or near the top of the Pac standings every year and capable of making a deep run in the tourney. CSM had things set up to meet that standard this year, so however far we fall off this year isn't really his fault. He's won three Pac titles and gotten to three E-8s. I hope he sticks around for a long time in Tucson and adds to these great achievements.

And I hope this team can overcome the roster depletion and inexperience. We'll see.

[gumby]

Ten minutes to Wapner ...

[rgdeuce]

We have no three point shooters, Ristic seems to be getting worse, and we're not a good defensive team. LM is a heck of a player, yes, and our guards are solid. But put us against a good team like Butler or Zaga, and you see what happens.

It's fine, guys. Every good program has a down year. Next year will be better.

We have no 3 point shooters? LM = 38.5% (and that will go up). Kobi and Rawle are both a very respectable 36.8%. PJC (like last year) and Kadeem (missed games) are off to slow starts; they will shoot better. Whenever Trier comes back... Not sure how Ristic is getting worse. His last four games 6-10 13pts; 3-6 6pts; 6-11 12pts; 3-6 8pts.

Like I said above, it took a perfect storm/refs to give Butler that win. Im not worried. Sean Miller defense's shouldnt be judged until February. I cant think of a team under him here who hasnt improved defensively with time, last year's team being the slightest improvement. What you are doing is judging a toolbox from the outside without looking at the tools themselves inside. I like you dude, but the constant anxiety in a lot of yours posts is a huge buzz kill.

[Jefe]

I don't even know what that means.

It's fine, guys. Every good program has a down year. Next year will be better.

[rgdeuce]

I still really like this team, even if the basketball gods haven't thus far.

[Chicat]

*Stands up*

*Adjusts microphone*


"I REALLY LIKE THIS TEAM!"


*Sits down, waiting for slow clap to begin*

*Slow clap never materializes*

*Hangs head and sighs*

[Olsondogg]

I'm firmly on the bandwagon, especially now that beach is off.

[azcat49]

Yea, I am not sure how anyone gets off just because we have two guys out but are expected back. As long as they are ready for conference play I am going to sit back and enjoy watching them progress.

Are we Kentucky, Duke or maybe even UCLA, No. But can we challenge for the conference title and a protected seed in the tourney, hell yes we can.

Our perimeter shooting is going to get better with experience for our younger guys and once Miller figures out the best combinations for crunch time I think these close losses and slow starts will be a thing of the past.

[Beachcat97]

Really like this team.

[Olsondogg]

You are like a fart in an elevator. Everyone wants you just to go away, but you linger.

[dcZONAfan]

I like you dude, but the constant anxiety in a lot of yours posts is a huge buzz kill.

Wow, you're quite good at lying through your teeth. You should be, an acTOR!

[dcZONAfan]

hope y'all read that last sentence in a Tobias Fünke voice because it will make it funny

[Jefe]

[Spaceman Spiff]

I like you dude, but the constant anxiety in a lot of yours posts is a huge buzz kill.

Wow, you're quite good at lying through your teeth. You should be, an acTOR!

He's been in the film business for a while, but he just can't seem to get one in the can.

[Longhorned]

Elect John Kasich
December 19

USA!

[rgdeuce]

I like you dude, but the constant anxiety in a lot of yours posts is a huge buzz kill.

Wow, you're quite good at lying through your teeth. You should be, an acTOR!

I get that he's a little bit blue. I am trying my hardest to not be too hard on him and while still avoiding getting sucked into that deep dark hole of gloom

[IndianaZonaFan]

I like you dude, but the constant anxiety in a lot of yours posts is a huge buzz kill.

Wow, you're quite good at lying through your teeth. You should be, an acTOR!

I get that he's a little bit blue. I am trying my hardest to not be too hard on him and while still avoiding getting sucked into that deep dark hole of gloom

I wish we could just get ANUSTART to this season

[EVCat]

I really like this team, too.

Just in case anyone is keeping a tally.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I like you dude, but the constant anxiety in a lot of yours posts is a huge buzz kill.

Wow, you're quite good at lying through your teeth. You should be, an acTOR!

I get that he's a little bit blue. I am trying my hardest to not be too hard on him and while still avoiding getting sucked into that deep dark hole of gloom

I just assume he meant for it to be a dry run, but shot his wad and now he's got something of a mess on his hands. It can happen when you listen to the man inside you. Sometimes, no matter how much you try to hide them, your true feelings will reveal themselves...WHERE THE F**K ARE MY HARD BOILED EGGS!

[Merkin]

I like this team but not more than friends. Actually I would say I love but am not in love with this team.

Friends has better nipples.

[EVCat]

2:16p, and I still like this team

[Longhorned]

Trillo is totally getting laid after this game.

[1stNGrant Frys]

Not to shit on Trillo's 2 assists and semi-serviceable defense, but is this the least talented group of walk-ons we've had? I'm sure they are good practice players, do what Coach says etc etc.

[DiehardDave37]

I really like this team, too.

Just in case anyone is keeping a tally.

Plus one!