Who's staying? Who's going?

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:57 pm

EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I got in physical altercations/fights with four different teammates in college. With three of the guys, within a few days it was like nothing happened. The only guy where I held a "f*** him" grudge for the rest of the season was because he flipped out on me like a bitch for giving him the same hard time that everyone else was at the exact same time AND he took a cheap swing at me while I was seated and eating with multiple ice packs on my dominant arm. So outside of that, a dude porking your girlfriend/wife or Gilbert Arenas'ing you over a card game debt, most people aren't going to hold long-term hate grudges and/or leave a team over one guy. They may be the last dude you want going out with the group for drinks, but when they are around you just keep what distance you can and it is a non-issue. Yeah teams are cliquey, but that means next to nothing. Locker rooms have to be REALLY toxic to have a huge effect and even then, winning fixes everything.
I think a lot of "fans" who have no actual history of exposure to players would be shocked at what they do. Funny...Channing and RJ's podcast with Tristan Thompson, RJ just flat out says "we would bust our ass on the road on Thursday because if we could get that win, get our win for the road trip, we'd go and party our ass off." And that involved wearing their colors and walking around, say, Oregon's campus looking to get invited to parties because many weren't 21. Which led to some heavy drinking and fucked up Fridays and, if they were on a trip where they set up in one place, some hung over game days.

I know of a couple of our players (not that they were the only ones) on a couple of our really, really, really good teams who would stop by the house of a friend of a friend and get high before heading to McKale on game days.

Read the walk on Bagga's book, and they treated him like shit, the scholarship players. And they often treated each other like shit, because it is a group of alphas all trying to be the alpha on the next level. Jordan Hill would room with Bagga and kick him out of the room the night before a game until the middle of morning so he could get some local strange. Almost every trip. And would make Bagga buy him shit or he would physically mess with him. The dude that transferred out of our program, Vega, straight up sucker-punched Bagga during practice for being too physical on a rebound on a previous possession. No one batted an eye. Now, that was at a time when our program was fractured as it ever was, but still. Sure, Bagga was a walk on, but he was a human being. And the other players basically said "he isn't scholarship, fuck him." And they queue up within the roster too.

Teams like 2014 are very rare. 1988 was another one like that. Those two teams loved each other. 2001-2003 had a lot of that, too, though Gil was insane (and a good friend of some of them), and Michael Wright kept to himself (RIP...he had his reasons). We had some really tight knit teams, but even in those teams, people didn't like everyone. Matt Othick?

I think B-Dub and Dickerson were other guys who didn't fit in socially. Stuck to themselves. Has Dickerson ever come back for any events? Don't recall it.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:16 pm

gumby wrote:
EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I got in physical altercations/fights with four different teammates in college. With three of the guys, within a few days it was like nothing happened. The only guy where I held a "f*** him" grudge for the rest of the season was because he flipped out on me like a bitch for giving him the same hard time that everyone else was at the exact same time AND he took a cheap swing at me while I was seated and eating with multiple ice packs on my dominant arm. So outside of that, a dude porking your girlfriend/wife or Gilbert Arenas'ing you over a card game debt, most people aren't going to hold long-term hate grudges and/or leave a team over one guy. They may be the last dude you want going out with the group for drinks, but when they are around you just keep what distance you can and it is a non-issue. Yeah teams are cliquey, but that means next to nothing. Locker rooms have to be REALLY toxic to have a huge effect and even then, winning fixes everything.
I think a lot of "fans" who have no actual history of exposure to players would be shocked at what they do. Funny...Channing and RJ's podcast with Tristan Thompson, RJ just flat out says "we would bust our ass on the road on Thursday because if we could get that win, get our win for the road trip, we'd go and party our ass off." And that involved wearing their colors and walking around, say, Oregon's campus looking to get invited to parties because many weren't 21. Which led to some heavy drinking and fucked up Fridays and, if they were on a trip where they set up in one place, some hung over game days.

I know of a couple of our players (not that they were the only ones) on a couple of our really, really, really good teams who would stop by the house of a friend of a friend and get high before heading to McKale on game days.

Read the walk on Bagga's book, and they treated him like shit, the scholarship players. And they often treated each other like shit, because it is a group of alphas all trying to be the alpha on the next level. Jordan Hill would room with Bagga and kick him out of the room the night before a game until the middle of morning so he could get some local strange. Almost every trip. And would make Bagga buy him shit or he would physically mess with him. The dude that transferred out of our program, Vega, straight up sucker-punched Bagga during practice for being too physical on a rebound on a previous possession. No one batted an eye. Now, that was at a time when our program was fractured as it ever was, but still. Sure, Bagga was a walk on, but he was a human being. And the other players basically said "he isn't scholarship, fuck him." And they queue up within the roster too.

Teams like 2014 are very rare. 1988 was another one like that. Those two teams loved each other. 2001-2003 had a lot of that, too, though Gil was insane (and a good friend of some of them), and Michael Wright kept to himself (RIP...he had his reasons). We had some really tight knit teams, but even in those teams, people didn't like everyone. Matt Othick?
I think B-Dub and Dickerson were other guys who didn't fit in socially. Stuck to themselves. Has Dickerson ever come back for any events? Don't recall it.

Dickerson was here for the 2011 red/blue game. It was during the lockout and a ton of ex-Cats were there. I do remember being surprised he was there, though.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:50 pm

Trier could have so easily come away from this season not wanting to have anything more to do with the NCAA and college. Can't have anything but respect for him. As much as it seems staying is the smart choice, im sure there were a lot of people telling him to go.

psiclist23 · Post by **psiclist23** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:03 pm

dcZONAfan wrote:
Jefe wrote:oh Greg...

1st - holy Lord is Hansen a moron. Certainly comes off as dick.
2nd - What happened to that dude on the right's hair? That's one shitty haircut

I get it that you are cool by jumping on the let's rip Hansen bandwagon, but if you actually listened to what he said, it all makes perfect sense. The guy knows what he is talking about.

psiclist23 · Post by **psiclist23** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:07 pm

Dosia wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
Jefe wrote:oh Greg...

1st - holy Lord is Hansen a moron. Certainly comes off as dick.
2nd - What happened to that dude on the right's hair? That's one shitty haircut
"And then he got killed." What a jackass.

yeah, that was lame.

edit: but I heard that as a comment (albeit not very tactful) on playing in Europe. i.e. not all it's cracked up to be.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Rawle will return, and with Trier in place, you can feel the excitement building for the new team.

CatsbyAZ · Post by **CatsbyAZ** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:19 pm

Merkin wrote:

Late to the party, I know, but great news hearing this week that Trier and Ristic are both back.

We waiting on anyone else's word?

And who are the new names (beyond Ayton) that can be expected contributors?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:22 am

CatsbyAZ wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Late to the party, I know, but great news hearing this week that Trier and Ristic are both back.

We waiting on anyone else's word?

And who are the new names (beyond Ayton) that can be expected contributors?

At point guard, still waiting on Irwin Lautman, great grandson of Inky Lautman (pictured below), but it's between us and Temple.

Beyond Ayton, the most likely guy able to contribute significant minutes is Paul Abdul.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:23 am

psiclist23 wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
Jefe wrote:oh Greg...

1st - holy Lord is Hansen a moron. Certainly comes off as dick.
2nd - What happened to that dude on the right's hair? That's one shitty haircut
I get it that you are cool by jumping on the let's rip Hansen bandwagon, but if you actually listened to what he said, it all makes perfect sense. The guy knows what he is talking about.

Agreed, there wasn't much to disagree with honestly.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:00 am

The way he trivialized the tragic death of Wright was pretty fucked up though.

The rest of his points are pretty much all in conjunction w the opionion here. Rawle's main problem is he is a jack of all trades in a 6'4 -6'5 frame. U give him 3 inches and he's a lotto pick.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:26 am

PennZona20 wrote:The way he trivialized the tragic death of Wright was pretty fucked up though.

Agreed, he could've done without mentioning that, and looked like a prick for even saying it. It had nothing to do with the points being made.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:20 am

Longhorned wrote:
CatsbyAZ wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Late to the party, I know, but great news hearing this week that Trier and Ristic are both back.

We waiting on anyone else's word?

And who are the new names (beyond Ayton) that can be expected contributors?
At point guard, still waiting on Irwin Lautman, great grandson of Inky Lautman (pictured below), but it's between us and Temple.

Beyond Ayton, the most likely guy able to contribute significant minutes is Paul Abdul.

"Two steps forward. Two steps back." He does like the big dance.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:23 am

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:09 pm

If the thousands of rumors are true, shes almost as long as Salley

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:55 pm

gumby wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
CatsbyAZ wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Late to the party, I know, but great news hearing this week that Trier and Ristic are both back.

We waiting on anyone else's word?

And who are the new names (beyond Ayton) that can be expected contributors?
At point guard, still waiting on Irwin Lautman, great grandson of Inky Lautman (pictured below), but it's between us and Temple.

Beyond Ayton, the most likely guy able to contribute significant minutes is Paul Abdul.

"Two steps forward. Two steps back." He does like the big dance.

Gary, you got me again---had to google Inky Lautman.

Whuh! What a dude! The great Inky:.

"[...]That's why Gottlieb loved Inky Lautman. Inky carried more resentment within his blood than a thousand lovers spurned. Even Litwack, who seemed to cruise through life with princely ease, kept a secret store of bitterness that he could draw upon in the fourth quarter, when the game was tight and the opposing knees where headed toward your nutsack. They were all from Philly, and being from Philly bred resentment. Fuck you, I'm a Jew from Philly, Gottlieb had taught his boys to think. The city's already beaten me down in a thousand ways you can't imagine. Try to show me something I ain't seen. -- Chapter Thirteen, Jewball

Inky turned to the crowd, gave a little bow, and then pulled down his shorts, revealing his full, circumcised glory. Fuck you, Inky mouthed. Fuck you all.
The SPHAs had about twenty seconds to get out of there before the crowd tore down the chicken wire. Gottlieb already by the fire exit, screaming at the team to move, move, move! They could mail him the trophy. Right now, he had to get his guys out of there. He didn't really have the funds for a funeral.

Inky got to the car intact. They all did. Because Inky had agree to show the crowd his schlong, Gottlieb had given him a $50 bonus and the promise that he'd get to ride shotgun...Inky thought, This is why I play the game. -- Chapter Fourteen, Jewball

Pollack decided to self-publish Jewball and offer it for $4.99 as an e-book on Amazon or $13.99 in paperback. He lives in Austin, TX where he practices Yoga and sends me emails about his dislike for Robert Sarver. You can follow him on Twitter and learn more at his web site.

* It's probably worth noting that while Neal Pollack and Seth Pollack are not related, we did both grow up in Phoenix at the same time, both enjoyed seeing Walter Davis play at Veterans Memorial Coliseum, and likely crossed paths as kids attending Temple Beth Israel in Phoenix. Neither of us made much of an impression on the other since we don't recall ever meeting before our recent discussion about Jewball."

So good! Thanks Gary!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:17 pm

EOCT wrote:
gumby wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
CatsbyAZ wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Late to the party, I know, but great news hearing this week that Trier and Ristic are both back.

We waiting on anyone else's word?

And who are the new names (beyond Ayton) that can be expected contributors?
At point guard, still waiting on Irwin Lautman, great grandson of Inky Lautman (pictured below), but it's between us and Temple.

Beyond Ayton, the most likely guy able to contribute significant minutes is Paul Abdul.

"Two steps forward. Two steps back." He does like the big dance.
Gary, you got me again---had to google Inky Lautman.

Whuh! What a dude! The great Inky:.

"[...]That's why Gottlieb loved Inky Lautman. Inky carried more resentment within his blood than a thousand lovers spurned. Even Litwack, who seemed to cruise through life with princely ease, kept a secret store of bitterness that he could draw upon in the fourth quarter, when the game was tight and the opposing knees where headed toward your nutsack. They were all from Philly, and being from Philly bred resentment. Fuck you, I'm a Jew from Philly, Gottlieb had taught his boys to think. The city's already beaten me down in a thousand ways you can't imagine. Try to show me something I ain't seen. -- Chapter Thirteen, Jewball

Inky turned to the crowd, gave a little bow, and then pulled down his shorts, revealing his full, circumcised glory. Fuck you, Inky mouthed. Fuck you all.
The SPHAs had about twenty seconds to get out of there before the crowd tore down the chicken wire. Gottlieb already by the fire exit, screaming at the team to move, move, move! They could mail him the trophy. Right now, he had to get his guys out of there. He didn't really have the funds for a funeral.

Inky got to the car intact. They all did. Because Inky had agree to show the crowd his schlong, Gottlieb had given him a $50 bonus and the promise that he'd get to ride shotgun...Inky thought, This is why I play the game. -- Chapter Fourteen, Jewball

Pollack decided to self-publish Jewball and offer it for $4.99 as an e-book on Amazon or $13.99 in paperback. He lives in Austin, TX where he practices Yoga and sends me emails about his dislike for Robert Sarver. You can follow him on Twitter and learn more at his web site.

* It's probably worth noting that while Neal Pollack and Seth Pollack are not related, we did both grow up in Phoenix at the same time, both enjoyed seeing Walter Davis play at Veterans Memorial Coliseum, and likely crossed paths as kids attending Temple Beth Israel in Phoenix. Neither of us made much of an impression on the other since we don't recall ever meeting before our recent discussion about Jewball."

So good! Thanks Gary!

That's the one, EOCT!

Neal Pollack is a very good friend of mine, going back 31 years now, though I haven't spoken with him since Wednesday. Our wives agree that we're one and the same person. He read me working drafts of Jewball out loud.

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:12 pm

Great stuff, LH-----can't imagine a better combo than noir and hoops.

Big fun with Pollack. You guys must howl together.

Just ordered two copies from Zon, the extra for a whiz pick up court buddy.

Thanks, LH!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:39 pm

I'll let him know, EOCT. He'll be thrilled to hear.

BTW, if anybody here belongs to the generations who were lucky enough to take Spanish with the beloved Señora Pollack (Susan Pollack) at Saguaro High School, please send me a PM so I can update you. Thank you. I didn't go to Saguaro, but I was very lucky to have Susan as a mom in my life.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:43 pm

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:48 pm

So Chance is gone. Not sure why he can't just come out and say it.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Chance and Kobi definitely gone

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:13 pm

There's zero confirmation that is Chance's car at this point. That's a $400K used vehicle, at the very best that's a rental he got for his birthday.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:50 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:Chance and Kobi definitely gone

Well, Kobi already hired an agent, so yeah. Chance is being more coy for some reason.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:50 pm

Rental car confirmed:

https://zonazealots.com/2017/04/16/chan ... y-suprise/" target="_blank

Aunt got it for him for his birthday. Irresponsible reporting by Greg Hansen.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:59 pm

Comanche is still gone.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:21 pm

If Chance wants to leave, good luck to him. I'm sure Miller and Romar already have been in contact with some recruits.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:22 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:Comanche is still gone.

If so, our frontcourt next season is DA, DR, KP, IL, plus anyone else we add to our '17 class or via transfer.

Could be worse.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:22 pm

You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:31 pm

zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?

I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:31 pm

Who was the last 4 year college player that became a star in the league? Only 4 year guys I can think of that are anywhere near stars in the NBA are like Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons and George Hill. And none of them are top stars.

The way it works now is that if you stay 4 years in college... You're not going to be a star in the NBA.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:36 pm

http://www.12up.com/posts/4352645-10-be ... in-college

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:09 pm

zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?

I agree 100%, zg, but I also think (as others do) that some kids just really, really don't wanna be in school, even marginally so as many high level college athletes are. Some of these guys like Jerrett are perfectly fine taking their chances with the NBADL or the European and Asian leagues. Would they help themselves by staying in college and benefiting from the many perks of being at a major college program? Of course. Would they struggle to remain academically eligible while doing so? Maybe. I wonder if the pressures to make grades and attend classes and follow CSM's rules is simply too much for some guys.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:36 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:Who was the last 4 year college player that became a star in the league? Only 4 year guys I can think of that are anywhere near stars in the NBA are like Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons and George Hill. And none of them are top stars.

The way it works now is that if you stay 4 years in college... You're not going to be a star in the NBA.

Draymond Green is not a "top star"? "Commanche is still gone"?

You just pulling this shit out of your ass today, 'hater? Green is an All Star: http://www.nba.com/teams/allstar/2017, and you know nothing about what Chance is or is not going to do other than the speculation choo has made.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:15 am

Puerco wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Who was the last 4 year college player that became a star in the league? Only 4 year guys I can think of that are anywhere near stars in the NBA are like Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons and George Hill. And none of them are top stars.

The way it works now is that if you stay 4 years in college... You're not going to be a star in the NBA.
Draymond Green is not a "top star"? "Commanche is still gone"?

You just pulling this shit out of your ass today, 'hater? Green is an All Star: http://www.nba.com/teams/allstar/2017, and you know nothing about what Chance is or is not going to do other than the speculation choo has made.

Ding ding ding 'Puerco with the knockout'. Well-said Puerco!

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:05 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Who was the last 4 year college player that became a star in the league? Only 4 year guys I can think of that are anywhere near stars in the NBA are like Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons and George Hill. And none of them are top stars.

The way it works now is that if you stay 4 years in college... You're not going to be a star in the NBA.

Call me fricken crazy, but CJ McCollum and Damian Lillard are both really damn good and played 4 years in college. Seriously the only 4 year guys that came to your mind were Draymond (an All star), Parsons, and Hill? Do some homework next time and then post, good lord.

Also who says anything about needing to be a star? How about just having a steady NBA career like Channing Frye, who currently makes $8 million a year at the ripe old age of 33 and has made a total of $58 million during his career, and has never been what you obviously qualify as a star who spent 4 years in college otherwise you would've named him? There's plenty to like about what Chance Comanche could be, but being a star in the NBA is reserved for a select few. Leaving college after two seasons where the most you put up is 6 points per game isn't exactly the recipe for obtaining stardom in the league and certainly falls much shorter in regards to creating stars than staying 4 years in college has.

What a flat ridiculously narrow minded argument you just made Hater.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 am

Puerco wrote: and you know nothing about what Chance is or is not going to do other than the speculation choo has made.

Hell and that speculation could change in a millisecond with the way these things go.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:17 am

Grant Jarret made a mistake only so far as he missed an opportunity for a college career. I think his pro career would have lasted as long as it did even with four years of college. His upside was overly ranked in high school.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:36 am

Comanche is still gone.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:43 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Who was the last 4 year college player that became a star in the league? Only 4 year guys I can think of that are anywhere near stars in the NBA are like Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons and George Hill. And none of them are top stars.

The way it works now is that if you stay 4 years in college... You're not going to be a star in the NBA.

Now how many come from the ranks of, say, couldn't beat out Dusan Ristic or PJC? Or, spent more time on bench than in games?

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:43 am

Rental cars ... rental players. Perfect!

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:28 am

Longhorned wrote:Grant Jarret made a mistake only so far as he missed an opportunity for a college career. I think his pro career would have lasted as long as it did even with four years of college. His upside was overly ranked in high school.

So what are the lottery numbers for Wednesday?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:39 am

UAEebs86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?
I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.

See, this gets lost. Add that to overseas income, and GJ is set for life if he manages his money. It's hard for me to criticize that decision.

Players have such a small window relative to other careers that a year or two can make a huge difference.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:46 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Who was the last 4 year college player that became a star in the league? Only 4 year guys I can think of that are anywhere near stars in the NBA are like Draymond Green, Chandler Parsons and George Hill. And none of them are top stars.

The way it works now is that if you stay 4 years in college... You're not going to be a star in the NBA.

Draymond Green is one of the best players in the league dude.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:51 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?
I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.
See, this gets lost. Add that to overseas income, and GJ is set for life if he manages his money. It's hard for me to criticize that decision.

Players have such a small window relative to other careers that a year or two can make a huge difference.

How small is the window exactly? I don't buy that statement at all. Excuse me while I shed a tear for those who stay in college for 4 years all the way to to the ripe age of 22-23 and still make plenty of money whether domestically or abroad in the sport of basketball. Channing Frye and his $58 million career earnings is playing the world's smallest violin right now.

Fwiw on Jerrett, at Arizona he along with Zeus/Ashley were victims of an experiment that went wrong. There's a reason why you hardly to never see a team land three 5 star post players in one class and it's for the clusterf*** that comes with playing time and being along for the ride with two other guys with the same exact amount of eligibility as you have. One of those three had to leave and Jerrett was the one that chose to go. I don't think he should've stayed at Arizona, but transferring to a better situation would've been a lot better option for him than what he did. I will take that opinion to my grave. He took the lazy way out and appropriately he treated his short lived NBA career just as lazily with his priority of watching That 70s Show reruns outside of actually playing basketball. Dumb decision was dumb. Chance staying in the draft would be equally as dumb IMO.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:58 am

As long as they are going into the decision with eyes wide open, and most are in this day of instant evaluation, it really is up to them to determine their path. If they want to do D-League instead of college, or play in Europe and start earning today, that is up to them. No one can really know if it was the right or wrong move until the journey is complete, and even if you know surface junk like total earnings, that doesn't tell you whether the player is happier with the path taken rather than the one we all wanted them to take. As long as they know the risks, this is their life. We all make mistakes...sometimes those "mistakes" are the best things for us.

There are more paths to happiness than the most travelled one. As long as they aren't getting screwed by someone, and know the risks and potential rewards of their decision, more power to them. They shouldn't stick around if this isn't where they want to be. If you don't graduate, there really is no difference in leaving college after one or two or three years, and most fans don't care if a player leaves without their degree after 3, so this isn't about them wasting an academic opportunity.

I think Chance serves himself and his career by coming back. Not sure Kobi would have been helped any. But, ultimately, it may work out for them. Or they may just be happier finding out now.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:58 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?
I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.
See, this gets lost. Add that to overseas income, and GJ is set for life if he manages his money. It's hard for me to criticize that decision.

Players have such a small window relative to other careers that a year or two can make a huge difference.
How small is the window exactly? I don't buy that statement at all. Excuse me while I shed a tear for those who stay in college for 4 years all the way to to the ripe age of 22-23 and still make plenty of money whether domestically or abroad in the sport of basketball. Channing Frye and his $58 million career earnings is playing the world's smallest violin right now.

Yup.

I've always had a tough time understanding the "but you want to leave early so you can eek out $300k more in earnings to get you to that career $2.7M mark as opposed to just $2.4M" instead of trying to learn and grow all you can in the attempt to have a real career.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:06 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?
I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.
See, this gets lost. Add that to overseas income, and GJ is set for life if he manages his money. It's hard for me to criticize that decision.

Players have such a small window relative to other careers that a year or two can make a huge difference.
How small is the window exactly? I don't buy that statement at all. Excuse me while I shed a tear for those who stay in college for 4 years all the way to to the ripe age of 22-23 and still make plenty of money whether domestically or abroad in the sport of basketball. Channing Frye and his $58 million career earnings is playing the world's smallest violin right now.

It depends. In the "One and Done" 30 for 30, they referenced Dajuan Wagner, who had colitis and a colon removal basically kill his pro career less than two years in. 4 years of college would have killed all his earning potential.

The average NBA career is 4.5 years. The average contract is 4.6 million. Losing out on an average NBA career with injury is a real possibility. Just going in the first round guarantees 3 million.

God forbid a player earn market value from his talent without 4 years of college. If a student left early to pursue a lucrative career, no one would think twice. Add in basketball and it's bad?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:07 am

SCCats wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?
I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.
See, this gets lost. Add that to overseas income, and GJ is set for life if he manages his money. It's hard for me to criticize that decision.

Players have such a small window relative to other careers that a year or two can make a huge difference.
How small is the window exactly? I don't buy that statement at all. Excuse me while I shed a tear for those who stay in college for 4 years all the way to to the ripe age of 22-23 and still make plenty of money whether domestically or abroad in the sport of basketball. Channing Frye and his $58 million career earnings is playing the world's smallest violin right now.
Yup.

I've always had a tough time understanding the "but you want to leave early so you can eek out $300k more in earnings to get you to that career $2.7M mark as opposed to just $2.4M" instead of trying to learn and grow all you can in the attempt to have a real career.

This operates on the false assumption (in my opinion) that college is the only place to learn and grow.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:11 am

SCCats wrote:
Yup.

I've always had a tough time understanding the "but you want to leave early so you can eek out $300k more in earnings to get you to that career $2.7M mark as opposed to just $2.4M" instead of trying to learn and grow all you can in the attempt to have a real career.

This discounts the possibility, however, that the D-League isn't as good a place to grow in the game to attempt to have a real career as the NCAA. I mean, NCAA hoops is a minor league for the NBA. Now, they are starting to put a little more into developing an alternative.

If a kid isn't a fan of school, really doesn't like the social makeup of college, and wants to put more than the NCAA mandated max allowable hours into his game with pro coaches, and is given feedback that a team would definitely put him on their D-League team if he comes out now, then why is that so much worse than coming back to Arizona and fighting for post minutes with coaches who have a different mandate (winning) than the D-League coaches have?

What if the decision is simply these guys don't like college? And there is now, with the additional 2-way deals in the new CBA, a different developmental path they'd rather take, and it really isn't about the money?

For this choice to be wrong, you would have to know they are going to fail in this path, and that coming back to Arizona would have actually increased their draft stock. Both of those are unknowns. We know what we want as fans of Arizona. And in some cases, coming back is clearly the right decision, if the player is happy with school and the college life and is going to get the PT required to grow and add some facets to his game. But there are other paths to having a basketball career. As long as they know what may happen by leaving early, and are willing to accept the risks...they are no different than any other young adult making a choice in life. We just don't show up to arenas to cheer for most people making their life's choice.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:15 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:You would think that every player going through the Arizona program would know about Grant Jerrett and his misguided early departure from the program and subsequent D-league debacle. Comanche had two years of college experience and was trending in the right direction. Not only does he need another year of college experience, he probably needs two years. And by his senior season he will be a polished player with noticeable skills that should translate to a strong placement in the NBA draft.

It's like dropping out of school before earning your degree and hitting the job market with no guaranteed offers or positions on the table. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Who is counseling these players?
I think GJ made a bad decision, but he did make 1.7 million from the Jazz. Wish my mistakes paid that much.
See, this gets lost. Add that to overseas income, and GJ is set for life if he manages his money. It's hard for me to criticize that decision.

Players have such a small window relative to other careers that a year or two can make a huge difference.
How small is the window exactly? I don't buy that statement at all. Excuse me while I shed a tear for those who stay in college for 4 years all the way to to the ripe age of 22-23 and still make plenty of money whether domestically or abroad in the sport of basketball. Channing Frye and his $58 million career earnings is playing the world's smallest violin right now.
It depends. In the "One and Done" 30 for 30, they referenced Dajuan Wagner, who had colitis and a colon removal basically kill his pro career less than two years in. 4 years of college would have killed all his earning potential.

The average NBA career is 4.5 years. The average contract is 4.6 million. Losing out on an average NBA career with injury is a real possibility. Just going in the first round guarantees 3 million.

God forbid a player earn market value from his talent without 4 years of college. If a student left early to pursue a lucrative career, no one would think twice. Add in basketball and it's bad?

Oh a reference to the Calipari 2 hour recruiting promo, that's a good start. Yeah I get that Wagner had colitis, but he was a no brainer lottery pick after his time at Memphis and no one is debating a guy should pass that up ever. I mean if we're going to use a guy getting colitis as an example then no player should ever take the huge risk that is playing college basketball or even waste their time playing HS basketball and should just go the Jeremy Tyler route if they can get paid immediately right? I could use Ray Smith's freak incident of blowing 3 ACLs in 3 years too, that doesn't make it a trend.

Yeah I understand the average length of a NBA career isn't long primarily due to the fact that most players wash out, but your argument was about players playing overseas as well. How short is their window exactly? Hell Isaiah Fox played professionally in Australia. If guys like him can make money playing the sport then certainly halfway quality players can make oodles of money overseas well into their 30s. Also if we're arguing 1st round then that would disqualify Grant Jerrett from this conversation and certainly Comanche as well. Last I checked no one was arguing against players leaving to be a 1st rounder.

If a guy's market value is set enough to where he can be a 1st round pick he'd be stupid not to go. If you're undraftable or at the very least can improve your stock enough to be a 1st round pick after 4 years then why exactly settle for less and a non-guaranteed contract? If a student left early to pursue a lucrative career before they were ready and washed out that would be a pretty dumb decision on their part. In basketball it's an equally pretty dumb decision.

Login • Register