let's talk '17

[Spaceman Spiff]

you're kadeemish

So I frequently have to post in areas I'm not comfortable with due to the paucity of other posters satisfactorily posting in that area?

Means you dominated JC message boards.

I've never posted at PGU.

[NYCat]

Unranked 3★ --

[ChooChooCat]

Unranked 3★ --

The only reason to do this is 1. You know you're not getting Duval or 2. You know Frank Jackson isn't coming back or #3 4 years of depth at the position. #2 or #3 is the most likely reasoning here unless Duval is choosing overseas.

[Merkin]

Duke had 5 open scholies, so no harm and probably no impact on Duval.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Unranked 3★ --

The only reason to do this is 1. You know you're not getting Duval or 2. You know Frank Jackson isn't coming back or #3 4 years of depth at the position. #2 or #3 is the most likely reasoning here unless Duval is choosing overseas.

I doubt Duval is worrying about a 3 star. #3 is my answer. There's no reason not to.

[azcat34]

Why would Duke recruit this kid at the last minute though?

They weren't even on his list of schools and now take his commitment in late April.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/bask ... n-goldwire" target="_blank

Doesn't make much sense to me unless they had to change course in some way.

[NYCat]

[Beachcat97]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

[ChooChooCat]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

[rgdeuce]

We should be preparing ourselves now for the fact that next years team is not going to be what we are used to defendively, top to bottom.

Every team since they '14 & '15 team hasn't been very good defensively. Last year the only good defensive player was Allen. Getting used to it.

Well, I can live with 28th this year and 29th last year if those are down years. But I don't expect the 17-18 team to be in the top 40 a lot of the year.

It depends. We've never had a rim protector like Ayton. If he brings the motor, that alone would put us in range of the 15-16 and 16-17 teams. If Alkins returns, I was really impressed with his progression over his freshman year and think he can be Kadeemish.

Ehhh. Not seeing that from Alkins at all, in his sophomore season at least. I agree he made significant strides as his freshman season progressed, but I'm not sure I would label him much more than slightly above average defensively at this point. Of course, a lot can change between now and then.

[Beachcat97]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

I prefer Cam's experience/age to Bowen's.

[CalStateTempe]

Let's lock him up. I love what he brings.

[rgdeuce]

They both appear to be guys who wont bring much to the table defensively. I really like Bowen, but from what I can tell he is a guy whose offensive game is going to have quite a bit of overlap with Trier's. With that said, Johnson being an efficient spot up shooting wing may strike a better balance with what we currently have in place, as we already have two guys in Trier and Ayton who will be ball-dominant types. Plus you know, Dusan being the ball stopper he is. I can see a strong argument for an experienced Johnson being more desirable than Bowen for this team, especially since we are probably getting both for just one year. Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

[YoDeFoe]

Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

I'll reiterate - Johnson would have been one of the worst rebounders on the team if he kept his stats last year. Only PJC and Kobi were worse rebounders.

Also Cam Johnson has two years of eligibility since he's graduated early and used a medical redshirt his freshman year.

I'll concede this though: Johnson was a fairly low usage player last year, ending only 16% of Pitt's possessions - likely something to do with him taking 67% of his shots by standing on the three point line and being very good at not turning the ball over. If he wants to come to Tucson and take 7 shots a game mostly from three as a microwave for us... well cool, come on down. If he wants a bigger role than that he needs to expand his game with some weight training and more of a nose for contact.

[ChooChooCat]

Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

I'll reiterate - Johnson would have been one of the worst rebounders on the team if he kept his stats last year. Only PJC and Kobi were worse rebounders.

Also Cam Johnson has two years of eligibility since he's graduated early and used a medical redshirt his freshman year.

I'll concede this though: Johnson was a fairly low usage player last year, ending only 16% of Pitt's possessions - likely something to do with him taking 67% of his shots by standing on the three point line and being very good at not turning the ball over. If he wants to come to Tucson and take 7 shots a game mostly from three as a microwave for us... well cool, come on down. If he wants a bigger role than that he needs to expand his game with some weight training and more of a nose for contact.

YDF made me see the light. I got lazy (happens when you have a toddler), looked at base per game stats, and said ahhh not so bad. I looked deeper into it and while I would not say no to Johnson if Alkins goes pro and Bowen goes anywhere else, he's far and away my #3 choice between the 3 guys.

I think all 3 guys work just fine along side Trier. The amount of possessions he needs is grossly exaggerated probably from what occurred in our last game, so whether it's Rawle going in and out, Bowen doing the same, or Johnson spotting up, they'd all get their looks next to Zo.

1. Alkins
2. Bowen
3. Johnson

[NYCat]

YDF made me see the light. I got lazy (happens when you have a toddler), looked at base per game stats, and said ahhh not so bad. I looked deeper into it and while I would not say no to Johnson if Alkins goes pro and Bowen goes anywhere else, he's far and away my #3 choice between the 3 guys.

I think all 3 guys work just fine along side Trier. The amount of possessions he needs is grossly exaggerated probably from what occurred in our last game, so whether it's Rawle going in and out, Bowen doing the same, or Johnson spotting up, they'd all get their looks next to Zo.

1. Alkins
2. Bowen
3. Johnson

I'm with you but for different reasons. I'm done with transfers, don't want them. Just say no to transfers!

[Jefe]

I'm with you but for different reasons. I'm done with transfers, don't want them. Just say no to transfers!

Screw that, Ill take anything!

[EVCat]

I want players on the floor. I don't care how they got here.

If transfers were out, we would never have experienced the awesomeness that is TJ McConnell. That is silly, IMO...who cares how they get here, as long as they get here.

You can't have a whole team of them, or really more than one senior/graduate transfer. But complimentary players who want to upgrade their program that CSM and staff deem worthy? Come on down. The problem in 2015/16 was much larger than the transfers dominating the bench...that team was fractured by incredible circumstances and never bonded.

[ChooChooCat]

YDF made me see the light. I got lazy (happens when you have a toddler), looked at base per game stats, and said ahhh not so bad. I looked deeper into it and while I would not say no to Johnson if Alkins goes pro and Bowen goes anywhere else, he's far and away my #3 choice between the 3 guys.

I think all 3 guys work just fine along side Trier. The amount of possessions he needs is grossly exaggerated probably from what occurred in our last game, so whether it's Rawle going in and out, Bowen doing the same, or Johnson spotting up, they'd all get their looks next to Zo.

1. Alkins
2. Bowen
3. Johnson

I'm with you but for different reasons. I'm done with transfers, don't want them. Just say no to transfers!

If he's as good as or better than a T.J. McConnell, then yes, please yes to transfers. Johnson is not that though.

I'm also fine with a patchjob grad transfer from time to time, but that's only if normal recruiting can't fill that hole appropriately.

Once again though if 1 and 2 go elsewhere then please bring 3. Rather have somebody remotely capable to fill the spot than nobody.

[rgdeuce]

Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

I'll reiterate - Johnson would have been one of the worst rebounders on the team if he kept his stats last year. Only PJC and Kobi were worse rebounders.

Also Cam Johnson has two years of eligibility since he's graduated early and used a medical redshirt his freshman year.

I'll concede this though: Johnson was a fairly low usage player last year, ending only 16% of Pitt's possessions - likely something to do with him taking 67% of his shots by standing on the three point line and being very good at not turning the ball over. If he wants to come to Tucson and take 7 shots a game mostly from three as a microwave for us... well cool, come on down. If he wants a bigger role than that he needs to expand his game with some weight training and more of a nose for contact.

Thanks for letting me know about him having two years left. Im confused about the rebounding w Johnson. He averaged 5.4 rebounds per 40 minutes, which is the same rate Kadeem rebounding per 40 last season, and looking at offensive and defensive rebounding percentage combined, they are virtually even. Johnson's per 40 and percentage numbers are better than Nick Johnsons were. Obviously there are other factors, but still, things look good to me.

My personal preferences on how I like teams are the biggest reason I lean him as #2 rather than #3. I prefer a team with balance and flow with maybe a little less talent, rather than just throwing the big dogs out there. He is also a guy who will help with the zones that have killed us. Obviously I am taking Rawle all day every day. He is clearly the better player and to me, he was the ultimate balancing piece on last year's team so that argument for Johnson would be destroyed. I think very highly of Bowen having seen him twice in recent weeks. But I just see too much overlap with Trier. You have your murder weapons in Trier and Ayton already, dont need another murder weapon as much as you need the guy who can float off the 3pt line and make teams pay for double teams and help, or a guy like Rawle who can do that or come close, attack off the catch when it is open, pick up the slack w rebounding, and grind. Im sure Bowen is capable of some of those things, but he would also only be here one year and we know what typically comes with that. If Rawle does leave though, I'd choose the first one who signs their name on the dotted line between the two.

[Puerco]

We do need a three point sniper with Markannen and Allen leaving.

[ChooChooCat]

Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

I'll reiterate - Johnson would have been one of the worst rebounders on the team if he kept his stats last year. Only PJC and Kobi were worse rebounders.

Also Cam Johnson has two years of eligibility since he's graduated early and used a medical redshirt his freshman year.

I'll concede this though: Johnson was a fairly low usage player last year, ending only 16% of Pitt's possessions - likely something to do with him taking 67% of his shots by standing on the three point line and being very good at not turning the ball over. If he wants to come to Tucson and take 7 shots a game mostly from three as a microwave for us... well cool, come on down. If he wants a bigger role than that he needs to expand his game with some weight training and more of a nose for contact.

Thanks for letting me know about him having two years left. Im confused about the rebounding w Johnson. He averaged 5.4 rebounds per 40 minutes, which is the same rate Kadeem rebounding per 40 last season, and looking at offensive and defensive rebounding percentage combined, they are virtually even. Johnson's per 40 and percentage numbers are better than Nick Johnsons were. Obviously there are other factors, but still, things look good to me.

My personal preferences on how I like teams are the biggest reason I lean him as #2 rather than #3. I prefer a team with balance and flow with maybe a little less talent, rather than just throwing the big dogs out there. He is also a guy who will help with the zones that have killed us. Obviously I am taking Rawle all day every day. He is clearly the better player and to me, he was the ultimate balancing piece on last year's team so that argument for Johnson would be destroyed. I think very highly of Bowen having seen him twice in recent weeks. But I just see too much overlap with Trier. You have your murder weapons in Trier and Ayton already, dont need another murder weapon as much as you need the guy who can float off the 3pt line and make teams pay for double teams and help, or a guy like Rawle who can do that or come close, attack off the catch when it is open, pick up the slack w rebounding, and grind. Im sure Bowen is capable of some of those things, but he would also only be here one year and we know what typically comes with that. If Rawle does leave though, I'd choose the first one who signs their name on the dotted line between the two.

I don't see why you're comparing a 6'8 Johnson to a 6'3 Kadeem and a 6'2 Nick. I mean when you have a guy who is 6'8 and playing the 3 you want him to be better on the boards than previous starting point guards/2 guards, especially when you're starting a midget at PG next year and our 2 guard isn't much of a rebounder either.

I think via PJC, Randolph, and Trier being consistent enough to where we have more than enough of 3 point shooting honestly. Bowen is no slouch from outside as well. I just think Bowen has more upside as an actual 3 man for this roster next year than Johnson honestly.

[ChooChooCat]

We do need a three point sniper with Markannen and Allen leaving.

Get acquainted with Brandon Randolph then. Allen was a 3 point sniper though? He did shoot 42% to his credit, but he only made 32 3's for the entire season.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We do need a three point sniper with Markannen and Allen leaving.

Get acquainted with Brandon Randolph then. Allen was a 3 point sniper though? He did shoot 42% to his credit, but he only made 32 3's for the entire season.

Yeah, this is actually low priority for me. PJC shot a high percentage, so did Trier and Smith/Randolph shoot it well as well. Frankly, we have almost nothing but solid to good three point shooters on the perimeter. Kadeem is almost a downgrade, although his percentage was higher than you'd think.

[Merkin]

We do need a three point sniper with Markannen and Allen leaving.

Get acquainted with Brandon Randolph then. Allen was a 3 point sniper though? He did shoot 42% to his credit, but he only made 32 3's for the entire season.

Allen only shot 30.5% 3 PT playing against glorified HS players in JC as NPOY, so yea, never a sniper. Actually did better than I expected at Arizona.

As TJ found out, a good 3 point shooter at Duquesne is going to suffer playing against elite defenses while at Arizona. Never did recover, 40%, 43%, redshirt, 36%, 32%.

[zonagrad]

I thought Allen had really good shot selection and rarely forced a three pointer unless the shot-clock or situation dictated. I think that's why his FG percentage was so good. He never hunted shots like almost every player tends to do from time to time. He always had his feet under him and gathered himself before taking a three. Even Markannen from time to time took some ill advised threes. I think the best teaching tool for a coaching staff is to make a tape of shot selection and corresponding percentages. When a player forces a three or is well defended and shoots anyway, the make percentage goes down. When a player is open, in rhythm and steps into the shot....the percentage goes up significantly.

I also think it's part of the reason PJC has a decent 3 pt. percentage. Because of his size, he's limited to the shots he can take. He's usually left open when the ball rotates and he gets a really good look. PJC rarely takes a 3 off the dribble and with a defender in his "space."

But here's the problem with guys like Allen & PJC once you get in the NCAA tourney against tough competition: opponents scout you well and know your limitations. So the trick isn't to try and smother and stop Allen or PJC from shooting. It's just making sure you're defending close enough to take away a wide open look in which they're likely to take and make. The opposing defense has a priority to stop guys like Markannen and Trier from getting any looks, good or bad. And opponents will only make sure that guys like Allen and PJC don't get wide open opportunities. So they're much easier to defend.

[PennZona20]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

And then throw in the rare instance that a guy like that can transfer right away and play two years, and he's an asset to any program.

It's just Bowen and Alkins would be assets to any program as well. I definitely want Cam, because it certainly seems like Bowen and Alkins are an either / or situation. No way in hell we get both. So in that regard we want Cam.

Personally I'd be happy w 1 of the 3 and Chance coming back. Then go find a transfer and call it a day. This is of course assuming that everyone's #1 wish list present still ends up at Duke.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

And then throw in the rare instance that a guy like that can transfer right away and play two years, and he's an asset to any program.

It's just Bowen and Alkins would be assets to any program as well. I definitely want Cam, because it certainly seems like Bowen and Alkins are an either / or situation. No way in hell we get both. So in that regard we want Cam.

Personally I'd be happy w 1 of the 3 and Chance coming back. Then go find a transfer and call it a day. This is of course assuming that everyone's #1 wish list present still ends up at Duke.

If we have Alkins or Bowen plus Trier, we don't need more depth than Smith and Randolph. Getting one of those plus Johnson is too many wing bodies.

[YoDeFoe]

Obv agree with ChooChoo - if we're comparing 6'8" Cam to our last PG (Kadeem) and saying he's almost as good at rebounding... well that's not good.

I've come around to Cam being a Kyle Korver type as deuce notes: a guy who can sit on the perimeter and really embarrass teams for doubling. PJC has that ability. Trier too obviously though he's likely the guy getting doubled. Randolph hopefully as well.

Again - if that's the role Cam is looking for then by all means sign right up.

[ChooChooCat]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

And then throw in the rare instance that a guy like that can transfer right away and play two years, and he's an asset to any program.

It's just Bowen and Alkins would be assets to any program as well. I definitely want Cam, because it certainly seems like Bowen and Alkins are an either / or situation. No way in hell we get both. So in that regard we want Cam.

Personally I'd be happy w 1 of the 3 and Chance coming back. Then go find a transfer and call it a day. This is of course assuming that everyone's #1 wish list present still ends up at Duke.

Penn, all 3 of these guys are either/or. We're either getting Rawle back only, or we're landing Bowen only, or we're landing Johnson only. There's no other option at this point. From what I was told today the staff is fully preparing for Rawle to be gone for good and at the moment the focus is primarily on Johnson. If Johnson were to commit on his visit we'd likely be unable to say no and at that point wish Rawle good luck.

I heard a very interesting tidbit on Comanche as well, but it's not one I can share yet. If he does return though expect Pinder to redshirt.

[EVCat]

I know there is a lot of criticism pointed at PJC...and a good amount is fair, though he is definitely a major college level player, just not the PG we need to be elite. But he will be a senior this year, as will Dusan Ristic, another lightning rod for frustration. But, again, he is a senior. If Chance comes back, he is a junior, Pinder, if he does not redshirt, is a senior. Allonzo Trier, our best returning player, is a junior.

There's been a lot of talk on the board about how the "one and done" culture hurts us, and the teams that succeed in the postseason are upperclassmen...

And quietly, we have become that kind of team. Our likely starting lineup consists of a Senior, a Junior, a Senior, the best player in the freshman class (well, he has dropped to 2 or 3 magically, but the longtime #1 player in the class), and TBD (Alkins, Johnson, Bowen, Randolph)....

We will not be a young team. We will have a ton of experience on the floor. And we will be very talented...

If PJC grows from Jr to Sr as much as he did from Soph to Jr, he won't be elite, but he may just be solid. We haven't really seen what he might do without looking over his shoulder. Again, not saying he is going to be an All PAC player, but if he holds down the position and plays consistently OK, this team is experienced AND talented. 2016 was experienced...but fractured and not so talented. 2015 was like this team...experience mixed with young, highly rated talent.

[cpt]

I know there is a lot of criticism pointed at PJC...and a good amount is fair, though he is definitely a major college level player, just not the PG we need to be elite. But he will be a senior this year, as will Dusan Ristic, another lightning rod for frustration. But, again, he is a senior. If Chance comes back, he is a junior, Pinder, if he does not redshirt, is a senior. Allonzo Trier, our best returning player, is a junior.

There's been a lot of talk on the board about how the "one and done" culture hurts us, and the teams that succeed in the postseason are upperclassmen...

And quietly, we have become that kind of team. Our likely starting lineup consists of a Senior, a Junior, a Senior, the best player in the freshman class (well, he has dropped to 2 or 3 magically, but the longtime #1 player in the class), and TBD (Alkins, Johnson, Bowen, Randolph)....

We will not be a young team. We will have a ton of experience on the floor. And we will be very talented...

If PJC grows from Jr to Sr as much as he did from Soph to Jr, he won't be elite, but he may just be solid. We haven't really seen what he might do without looking over his shoulder. Again, not saying he is going to be an All PAC player, but if he holds down the position and plays consistently OK, this team is experienced AND talented. 2016 was experienced...but fractured and not so talented. 2015 was like this team...experience mixed with young, highly rated talent.

What he said.

[A1RZONA]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

And then throw in the rare instance that a guy like that can transfer right away and play two years, and he's an asset to any program.

It's just Bowen and Alkins would be assets to any program as well. I definitely want Cam, because it certainly seems like Bowen and Alkins are an either / or situation. No way in hell we get both. So in that regard we want Cam.

Personally I'd be happy w 1 of the 3 and Chance coming back. Then go find a transfer and call it a day. This is of course assuming that everyone's #1 wish list present still ends up at Duke.

Penn, all 3 of these guys are either/or. We're either getting Rawle back only, or we're landing Bowen only, or we're landing Johnson only. There's no other option at this point. From what I was told today the staff is fully preparing for Rawle to be gone for good and at the moment the focus is primarily on Johnson. If Johnson were to commit on his visit we'd likely be unable to say no and at that point wish Rawle good luck.

I heard a very interesting tidbit on Comanche as well, but it's not one I can share yet. If he does return though expect Pinder to redshirt.

hmmm super interesting, thanks for sharing.

[Puerco]

We do need a three point sniper with Markannen and Allen leaving.

Get acquainted with Brandon Randolph then. Allen was a 3 point sniper though? He did shoot 42% to his credit, but he only made 32 3's for the entire season.

Allen only shot 30.5% 3 PT playing against glorified HS players in JC as NPOY, so yea, never a sniper. Actually did better than I expected at Arizona.

As TJ found out, a good 3 point shooter at Duquesne is going to suffer playing against elite defenses while at Arizona. Never did recover, 40%, 43%, redshirt, 36%, 32%.

Was giving credit for the percentage, not the volume. He was above 50% through the first half of the year. Downside is that implies he was closer to 30% than 40% during the second half.

Cam has NBA range, though. Not sure what else he provides because the highlights are literally only him draining threes. Still, someone who hits over 40% from a step or two outside the arc puts a lot of oressure on a defense.

Hope you're right about Randolph, but till he proves it at the high major level I'm not counting on it.

[PennZona20]

Well, considering that some here put Cam third behind Rawle and Bowen, he sure is drawing interest from some big name programs. Can't tell if he's being under- or overestimated.

No one ever said he was incapable. A 40% 3 point shooter at 6'8 could fit on any roster. Personally based on Arizona's needs I'd slot him as my third choice, but that's just me.

And then throw in the rare instance that a guy like that can transfer right away and play two years, and he's an asset to any program.

It's just Bowen and Alkins would be assets to any program as well. I definitely want Cam, because it certainly seems like Bowen and Alkins are an either / or situation. No way in hell we get both. So in that regard we want Cam.

Personally I'd be happy w 1 of the 3 and Chance coming back. Then go find a transfer and call it a day. This is of course assuming that everyone's #1 wish list present still ends up at Duke.

Penn, all 3 of these guys are either/or. We're either getting Rawle back only, or we're landing Bowen only, or we're landing Johnson only. There's no other option at this point. From what I was told today the staff is fully preparing for Rawle to be gone for good and at the moment the focus is primarily on Johnson. If Johnson were to commit on his visit we'd likely be unable to say no and at that point wish Rawle good luck.

I heard a very interesting tidbit on Comanche as well, but it's not one I can share yet. If he does return though expect Pinder to redshirt.

Smart decision by Pinder. Look at the good it did for our last RS from JUCO that just graduated. Why is it all these JUCO kids can see the forest from the trees better than Hs kids. The answer is obvious besides maturity these kids have had to fight for it to get back to this point (academics, off field issues, just weren't good enough out of HS) while HS kids are constantly told their shit doesn't stink.

I figured we'd only get 1 of the 3. But I also figured there was a chance Cam could commit on his visit and we could still get 1 of the other 2. If what u say is the case I'd like to slow play Cam, but I don't think he'll commit on his visit ...... I think he'll take all his visits or he would've committed to UK on that visit w all the open PT and connections to Cal. By the time he's done visiting everybody (2-3 weeks) we should have decisions from BB or RA or likely both.

[NYCat]

So that would mean 2 more players, I assume he's inculding transfers.

Cam Johnson & Chase Jeter would make the most sense.

[PennZona20]

If Sean said that then that definitely sounds like Rawle is gone. We could theoretically take 2 more and get CC and RA back. If we tell Talbot we can't give him a ship that would still put us at 13, however it sounds an awful lot like Rawle is gone. May go from a potential RHJ fan favorite to Grant Jerrett (at least GJ got drafted).

You could put an optimistic spin on it and assume Miller plans on getting Duval and BB though.

[NYCat]

Apparently Izzo pulled Bowen's schollie lol

[PennZona20]

Lol. Looks like it's truly Creighton v UA now.

[Beachcat97]

Apparently Izzo pulled Bowen's schollie lol

Good for him. Seriously. It's absurd that Bowen hasn't made a decision yet.

[Frybry02]

Lol. Looks like it's truly Creighton v UA now.

DePaul

[Beachcat97]

Lol. Looks like it's truly Creighton v UA now.

DePaul

Yeah. Saw this too. Sorta seems like we're moving on past Bowen. It's either Rawle or Cam for that guard spot.

[EVCat]

Apparently Izzo pulled Bowen's schollie lol

Good for him. Seriously. It's absurd that Bowen hasn't made a decision yet.

I don't get that line of thinking. The recruitment process is the only process the player has any power in. He is going to go to a school and be worth far more to that school than the school is to him in actual pay (scholie/training). Yes, there is exposure, too, and that is valuable. But the scholarship contract is such bullshit right now...you are committed once you sign, and if you want to transfer, you have to sit out a year, yet the coach can leave any time without penalty and can cut you and end your college life at any time.

Until the scholarship becomes a 4 year contract guaranteeing player schooling for all 4 years, and not a year to year "contract" that doesn't allow the player to leave year to year, players should leverage every single bit of power they have in the recruiting process.

If a coach wants to exit the process, that's fine. But that isn't why Izzo would pull an offer...Miles Bridges returning would be why. If Bridges had gone pro, Izzo would be waiting with everyone.

[ChooChooCat]

Apparently Izzo pulled Bowen's schollie lol

Good for him. Seriously. It's absurd that Bowen hasn't made a decision yet.

I don't get that line of thinking. The recruitment process is the only process the player has any power in. He is going to go to a school and be worth far more to that school than the school is to him in actual pay (scholie/training). Yes, there is exposure, too, and that is valuable. But the scholarship contract is such bullshit right now...you are committed once you sign, and if you want to transfer, you have to sit out a year, yet the coach can leave any time without penalty and can cut you and end your college life at any time.

Until the scholarship becomes a 4 year contract guaranteeing player schooling for all 4 years, and not a year to year "contract" that doesn't allow the player to leave year to year, players should leverage every single bit of power they have in the recruiting process.

If a coach wants to exit the process, that's fine. But that isn't why Izzo would pull an offer...Miles Bridges returning would be why. If Bridges had gone pro, Izzo would be waiting with everyone.

Izzo "pulled the offer" because he knows Bowen isn't going there. Sounds like this is Creighton all the way, with Arizona hanging around pulling at his heart strings, and DePaul hiring anyone who has ever coached him in history to try to lure him as well.

I also agree with every thing you said in your post Ev. The only thing Bowen has done wrong is say "I want to commit by this date or this date or this date," he should've just said I'll commit when I'm ready and let that be the end of it.

[rgdeuce]

Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

I'll reiterate - Johnson would have been one of the worst rebounders on the team if he kept his stats last year. Only PJC and Kobi were worse rebounders.

Also Cam Johnson has two years of eligibility since he's graduated early and used a medical redshirt his freshman year.

I'll concede this though: Johnson was a fairly low usage player last year, ending only 16% of Pitt's possessions - likely something to do with him taking 67% of his shots by standing on the three point line and being very good at not turning the ball over. If he wants to come to Tucson and take 7 shots a game mostly from three as a microwave for us... well cool, come on down. If he wants a bigger role than that he needs to expand his game with some weight training and more of a nose for contact.

Thanks for letting me know about him having two years left. Im confused about the rebounding w Johnson. He averaged 5.4 rebounds per 40 minutes, which is the same rate Kadeem rebounding per 40 last season, and looking at offensive and defensive rebounding percentage combined, they are virtually even. Johnson's per 40 and percentage numbers are better than Nick Johnsons were. Obviously there are other factors, but still, things look good to me.

My personal preferences on how I like teams are the biggest reason I lean him as #2 rather than #3. I prefer a team with balance and flow with maybe a little less talent, rather than just throwing the big dogs out there. He is also a guy who will help with the zones that have killed us. Obviously I am taking Rawle all day every day. He is clearly the better player and to me, he was the ultimate balancing piece on last year's team so that argument for Johnson would be destroyed. I think very highly of Bowen having seen him twice in recent weeks. But I just see too much overlap with Trier. You have your murder weapons in Trier and Ayton already, dont need another murder weapon as much as you need the guy who can float off the 3pt line and make teams pay for double teams and help, or a guy like Rawle who can do that or come close, attack off the catch when it is open, pick up the slack w rebounding, and grind. Im sure Bowen is capable of some of those things, but he would also only be here one year and we know what typically comes with that. If Rawle does leave though, I'd choose the first one who signs their name on the dotted line between the two.

I don't see why you're comparing a 6'8 Johnson to a 6'3 Kadeem and a 6'2 Nick. I mean when you have a guy who is 6'8 and playing the 3 you want him to be better on the boards than previous starting point guards/2 guards, especially when you're starting a midget at PG next year and our 2 guard isn't much of a rebounder either.

I think via PJC, Randolph, and Trier being consistent enough to where we have more than enough of 3 point shooting honestly. Bowen is no slouch from outside as well. I just think Bowen has more upside as an actual 3 man for this roster next year than Johnson honestly.

I'm talking final outcome for a wing position. I dont care if he is 6'3 or 6'8, my argument isn't him being a great rebounder pound for pound, its just getting rebounds. Im sure Randolph will be a nice add in terms of outside shooting. PJC shoots very well, but his up and down performances, historic slow starts (ie: doesnt heat up til January), and size make him a bonus shooter, not someone you can rely on consistently due to his issues and what he needs to even get a semi-clean shot off. Trier is a good outside shooter, but I prefer to have two other great shooters to go with your high-volume guy in Trier. Johnson and Randolph ensure that you always got a Dennis Scott out there on the floor no matter the rotation.

[ChooChooCat]

Johnson probably helps a bit more on the boards too, which is an area we could always improve knowing Dusan is going to be our starting center.

I'll reiterate - Johnson would have been one of the worst rebounders on the team if he kept his stats last year. Only PJC and Kobi were worse rebounders.

Also Cam Johnson has two years of eligibility since he's graduated early and used a medical redshirt his freshman year.

I'll concede this though: Johnson was a fairly low usage player last year, ending only 16% of Pitt's possessions - likely something to do with him taking 67% of his shots by standing on the three point line and being very good at not turning the ball over. If he wants to come to Tucson and take 7 shots a game mostly from three as a microwave for us... well cool, come on down. If he wants a bigger role than that he needs to expand his game with some weight training and more of a nose for contact.

Thanks for letting me know about him having two years left. Im confused about the rebounding w Johnson. He averaged 5.4 rebounds per 40 minutes, which is the same rate Kadeem rebounding per 40 last season, and looking at offensive and defensive rebounding percentage combined, they are virtually even. Johnson's per 40 and percentage numbers are better than Nick Johnsons were. Obviously there are other factors, but still, things look good to me.

My personal preferences on how I like teams are the biggest reason I lean him as #2 rather than #3. I prefer a team with balance and flow with maybe a little less talent, rather than just throwing the big dogs out there. He is also a guy who will help with the zones that have killed us. Obviously I am taking Rawle all day every day. He is clearly the better player and to me, he was the ultimate balancing piece on last year's team so that argument for Johnson would be destroyed. I think very highly of Bowen having seen him twice in recent weeks. But I just see too much overlap with Trier. You have your murder weapons in Trier and Ayton already, dont need another murder weapon as much as you need the guy who can float off the 3pt line and make teams pay for double teams and help, or a guy like Rawle who can do that or come close, attack off the catch when it is open, pick up the slack w rebounding, and grind. Im sure Bowen is capable of some of those things, but he would also only be here one year and we know what typically comes with that. If Rawle does leave though, I'd choose the first one who signs their name on the dotted line between the two.

I don't see why you're comparing a 6'8 Johnson to a 6'3 Kadeem and a 6'2 Nick. I mean when you have a guy who is 6'8 and playing the 3 you want him to be better on the boards than previous starting point guards/2 guards, especially when you're starting a midget at PG next year and our 2 guard isn't much of a rebounder either.

I think via PJC, Randolph, and Trier being consistent enough to where we have more than enough of 3 point shooting honestly. Bowen is no slouch from outside as well. I just think Bowen has more upside as an actual 3 man for this roster next year than Johnson honestly.

I'm talking final outcome for a wing position. I dont care if he is 6'3 or 6'8, my argument isn't him being a great rebounder pound for pound, its just getting rebounds.

Well I guess the question is why aren't you comparing him to former wings that played the position he would be playing for us like Rawle for instance?

[rgdeuce]

Well I guess the question is why aren't you comparing him to former wings that played the position he would be playing for us like Rawle for instance?

Because it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Miller can play Trier at the 2 and Cam at the 3, skill or size of the oppositions best wing dictates who guards who, or switch it and there would be no difference. It's semantics. People in here was calling him a 2, so naturally I compared him to two 2's who were quality rebounders for us. I could compare him to 3's, but that is kind of skewed when our 3's have been guys like Rondae and Aaron Gordon who can also play the 4 and are ridiculously gifted players already. Even Rawle is an exceptional rebounder for his size. In no way shape or form am I expecting this kid to be an exceptional or even great rebounder. I was just saying, he does look pretty good because a statement was made suggesting he was a poor rebounder.

[rgdeuce]

Obv agree with ChooChoo - if we're comparing 6'8" Cam to our last PG (Kadeem) and saying he's almost as good at rebounding... well that's not good.

I've come around to Cam being a Kyle Korver type as deuce notes: a guy who can sit on the perimeter and really embarrass teams for doubling. PJC has that ability. Trier too obviously though he's likely the guy getting doubled. Randolph hopefully as well.

Again - if that's the role Cam is looking for then by all means sign right up.

That is flawed though. Kadeem is a 2 who had to play the 1 out of necessity. He may have been the 1 on the offensive end, but he was frequently guarding the oppositions best wing, so he may as well be considered a 2 or 3 for comparison purposes because he is guarding the same guy that Nick Johnson would.

I'm assuming that role is something he would be fine with. He knows what he would be getting into here and he is strongly entertaining Kentucky, another place where anyone with a brain would know they aren't going to be option 1, 2 and probably even 3. Looking at his efficiency and attempt numbers, it seems like that was something he was pretty comfortable with at Pitt. I'm just not comfortable with the fact that PJC is being considered as a guy who will keep teams honest from deep. History has shown us, at best, we cant expect that until the 2nd half of the season as is and even then, there are plenty of games where he was not getting any shots up, or more than a couple because he needs a lot of space to get that shot off in time because of his size and release.

[Puerco]

The whole argument is flawed because Pitt had Johnson camped out 2 feet behind the three point line in every clip I've seen. If one assumes he played a similar role on defense, then the rebounds aren't going to be easy to come by. Doesn't matter how tall you are when you're that far from the rim.

[ChooChooCat]

The whole argument is flawed because Pitt had Johnson camped out 2 feet behind the three point line in every clip I've seen. If one assumes he played a similar role on defense, then the rebounds aren't going to be easy to come by. Doesn't matter how tall you are when you're that far from the rim.

Why would one assume he would have to play a similar role on defense though? One guy being a 3 point specialist on offense does not equate to him being limited or being solely asked to defend the 3 point line. I get the lack of offensive board argument though.