Who's staying? Who's going?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:15 pm

gumby wrote:
4. Who has next?

Keanu...is happy.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:19 pm

Main Event wrote:He would have gotten time, just less than what he got this year

I likely agree. Ayton will get at least as much time as Lauri. Dusan will get about the same time. Keanu, same, and now we add Lee in. Even if Keanu redshirted, Lee would probably get at least Keanu level minutes from this year.

Unless Chance made a big jump, he would have been the same or lower minutes.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:22 pm

What's the longest he played in a college game? Endurance would be my Chief concern.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:25 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Main Event wrote:He would have gotten time, just less than what he got this year
I likely agree. Ayton will get at least as much time as Lauri. Dusan will get about the same time. Keanu, same, and now we add Lee in. Even if Keanu redshirted, Lee would probably get at least Keanu level minutes from this year.

Unless Chance made a big jump, he would have been the same or lower minutes.

Right...unless he got better like he did from Freshman to Sophomore year in his Junior year (usually not as big a jump, but still) like you say.

Chief was still hit or miss with footwork. When he got it, he was a bit devastating in the post. He just wasn't consistent. If he gained that consistency, he could have forced either more PT or Dusan to figure out how to get his legs to engage with his brain quicker on defense. Something would have had to give.

But I do understand work ethic wasn't exactly Chief's, umm, Chief concern, so who knows if he ever would have been more than ephemera....

psiclist23 · Post by **psiclist23** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:39 pm

EVCat wrote:
psiclist23 wrote:These kids must have an unrealistic view of how good players in the NBA really are. Because again, if you can't even break into the starting line-up on your college team, how are you possibly going to make it in the pros? I guess being idolized your entire life instills unrealistic expectations. SMH
"Man, Chief...that sucks you don't start. You way better. Bro, you lead the team in dunks. You finish, bro. This is bullshit"

"Yeah...I shoulda been starting. Coach doesn't like me. All on me about class and shit. What the fuck?"

"Bro...you should go pro. Can you imagine it? Think about it...girls, money, blockin' LeBron....we...I mean you...should totally do that."

"Yeah...I'd cuff BronBron. That'd be on SportsCenter. Can't get on SportsCenter with this fool never playin me.

"Yup, yup. Bro...I took some law classes online. I can check shit out for you. We...I mean you are gonna be stylin...."

so true

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:43 pm

Why didn't I get more rep for my Midnight Cowboy "showcasing my talent" post?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Longhorned wrote:Why didn't I get more rep for my Midnight Cowboy "showcasing my talent" post?

I'm walking here!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri May 05, 2017 4:17 pm

Gumby bringing it harder to this thread than Chance to the uofa. Well done sir!

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Fri May 05, 2017 4:42 pm

Had he played four years and developed as a player, he might actually have a shot at having a career in the NBA. These kids are so delusional.

CatMG · Post by **CatMG** » Fri May 05, 2017 7:12 pm

Is there ANY mock draft out there that has him being drafted? It took me a while getting used to players leaving early. I don't think I will ever get used to players leaving early who aren't expected to be drafted.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat May 06, 2017 2:00 am

Chance leaving early for a pro career is Grant Jerret 2.0 IMHO.....sickens me and is extremely disappointing. Would love to get back to real college basketball and let these kids who don't want an education just go straight into a pro career and skip college completely.

Those who do accept a scholarship would be committed for 3 years minimum....I don't care if the incoming talent is reduced.....It would be so much more fun to watch these kids develop and see more consistency as a team.

As it stands now, Arizona seems to be a Semi-Pro Team and I have no interest in Pro Hoops. My interest in our program and college hoops overall is diminishing year by year and it's idiotic decisions by foolish kids like Chance that are real gut-punches. Smh.

Screw the NBA and the culture surrounding Pro-sports which is killing the college game. As an Arizona Graduate, I prefer to watch real college players and not idiot kids who seem to be forced into college against their will.

Good riddance Chance, I'll add you to the list which includes Grant Jerret and the ONDs who I have a hard time rooting for or giving two sh*ts about as former Wildcats. Give me the Jason Terry's, Channing Frye's, Richard Jefferson's, TJ's, etc who I love to root for and are the only reason I even pay scant attention to the NBA.

My one hobby / obsession is being a diehard Arizona Basketball fan and it's getting harder and harder to enjoy with idiotic crap like Chance's decision. Rant over.

PS. It's about time to let colleges get GMs to manage personnel as this kind of yearly turnover is ridiculous and seems like such a massive drain on the Coaches time.

PSS. And so what happens when the injury bug strikes us again and kills our depth?

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat May 06, 2017 6:00 am

Could not agree more BKW. Although I wish CC luck you just have to shake your head at this decision. And you are right to compare elite programs to a semi pro team.

Edit: as an aside to your semi pro comment, this Grad transfer rule is the free agent market of college bball. Just blows

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Sat May 06, 2017 6:37 am

Well said, BKW and 49. I could not agree more. Nothing to add.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat May 06, 2017 7:54 am

CatMG wrote:Is there ANY mock draft out there that has him being drafted? It took me a while getting used to players leaving early. I don't I will ever get used to players leaving early who aren't expected to be drafted.

He's been mocked enough. Sweden likes him ... as backup ... for ABBA.

Take a Chance on me!

KOQSTRONG · Post by **KOQSTRONG** » Sat May 06, 2017 8:01 am

So Chance made it official he's leaving? How in the Hell did I miss that yesterday? I don't think Scheer even mentioned it on his twitter feed. Why do I follow that guy still... Stupid move on Chances part but not surprising. Really hoping we get Bowen and his awful hair.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat May 06, 2017 9:15 am

Best of luck Chance! Always part of the Wildcat familia.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat May 06, 2017 8:29 pm

HiCat wrote:Best of luck Chance! Always part of the Wildcat familia.

I'm indifferent to Chance aka Grant Jerret 2.0 and I hate saying that but it's how I feel. I think it's a really foolish decision IMHO.

Having said this and moving on from Chance, how many here wish we had landed Bennie Boatwright instead??? I sure as hell do. I wrongly assumed that Chance, coming from Beverly Hills and a good family would value an education.....smh....so disappointing.

Rawle, please don't add to this disaster and come back for another year.....a sophomore Rawle is way, way better than Bowen or anyone else we could land in his spot.

It's one thing when you know Aaron Gordon, Stanley Johnson and Lauri are ONDs coming in...it's another when guys seem to just jump out too early.....I'm really hoping he's just playing it smart, taking advantage of the camp but then coming back but seems like this year has been a really mixed bag of blessings (P12 Season and Tourney Champs) and curses (poor Ray Smith, dumbass S16 loss vs under-talented Xavier, Zo's suspension, other injuries, etc.).

Honestly, I'm going into next year with the lowest expectations and excitement for my beloved Wildcats EVER. Until they make some serious changes in the NBA or NCAA, we are just a semi-pro / NBA Development Team to me.....or close to it. This sucks!!!!!

elriop20 · Post by **elriop20** » Sun May 07, 2017 12:24 am

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
HiCat wrote:Best of luck Chance! Always part of the Wildcat familia.
I'm indifferent to Chance aka Grant Jerret 2.0 and I hate saying that but it's how I feel. I think it's a really foolish decision IMHO.

Having said this and moving on from Chance, how many here wish we had landed Bennie Boatwright instead??? I sure as hell do. I wrongly assumed that Chance, coming from Beverly Hills and a good family would value an education.....smh....so disappointing.

Rawle, please don't add to this disaster and come back for another year.....a sophomore Rawle is way, way better than Bowen or anyone else we could land in his spot.

It's one thing when you know Aaron Gordon, Stanley Johnson and Lauri are ONDs coming in...it's another when guys seem to just jump out too early.....I'm really hoping he's just playing it smart, taking advantage of the camp but then coming back but seems like this year has been a really mixed bag of blessings (P12 Season and Tourney Champs) and curses (poor Ray Smith, dumbass S16 loss vs under-talented Xavier, Zo's suspension, other injuries, etc.).

Honestly, I'm going into next year with the lowest expectations and excitement for my beloved Wildcats EVER. Until they make some serious changes in the NBA or NCAA, we are just a semi-pro / NBA Development Team to me.....or close to it. This sucks!!!!!

We're turning into a shit version of Kentucky, but instead of sending players to the NBA we crank players out to the D-league and Europe.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:16 am

Chance either needed to accept backup minutes for the next two years or leave. He was never going to earn starter minutes at Arizona or any major program.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun May 07, 2017 7:52 am

Longhorned wrote:Chance either needed to accept backup minutes for the next two years or leave. He was never going to earn starter minutes at Arizona or any major program.

Maybe. But you earn starter minutes by improving and wholly buying into improving yourself. Chance made a nice jump in improving his game from his freshman & sophomore seasons. He still needs to improve his strength, especially is base in not being knocked around. Jordan Hill didn't get off the bench for the first half of his freshman season. He made great strides during his 3-year stint at Arizona. Comanche could've done the same thing. But his motor & effort to do little things showed his lack of commitment. For a guy who's 6'11" and has NBA aspirations, he sure had trouble rebounding and blocking shots. Pinder was the team's leading shot blocker, a stat I find maddening considering Markannen & Ristic played 25 min/game and are both 7 footers.

Back to Comanche, more playing time was right in front of him. But he had to earn it. And he didn't. He won't find things any easier wherever he ends up. In fact, it might be a little harder.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:29 am

Chance was certainly capable of starting as an upperclassman (there was a very good argument that he should have been starting at some point in last year's conference season). Regardless, he was going to be the first big off the bench in 17-18 and he would have averaged more than the 18.1 mpg he averaged this past season.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:44 am

rgdeuce wrote:Chance was certainly capable of starting as an upperclassman (there was a very good argument that he should have been starting at some point in last year's conference season). Regardless, he was going to be the first big off the bench in 17-18 and he would have averaged more than the 18.1 mpg he averaged this past season.

I'm not sure he would have. You figure Ayton gets 30 and Dusan gets 25. Lee/Pinder get 7 and that only leaves 18.

I think he would have deserved more minutes, but I don't really see them being there.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:59 am

So what's the consensus on where he might land? Is the D league even a possibility next year or will he need to learn a foreign language?

I wonder how many guys have gone foreign first and then made an NBA roster. I doubt many

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:09 am

azcat49 wrote:So what's the consensus on where he might land? Is the D league even a possibility next year or will he need to learn a foreign language?

I wonder how many guys have gone foreign first and then made an NBA roster. I doubt many

There are a lot of D League spots. I'd be pretty confident he can land one.

Overseas to NBA happens. It isn't super common, but it's certainly possible. That said, Chance has a lot of developing to do. If he wants an NBA future, it won't be right off the bat. He needs to be ready for the development that will be necessary.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:14 am

Well if he can make a D LEAGUE roster than I can actually see his thinking. He can spend all day developing his game and gets paid a little. Like you said Spiff, he has a long way to go. Getting 20 minutes off then bench for the cats was all he was going to get next year and maybe not even that

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:47 am

azcat49 wrote:Well if he can make a D LEAGUE roster than I can actually see his thinking. He can spend all day developing his game and gets paid a little. Like you said Spiff, he has a long way to go. Getting 20 minutes off then bench for the cats was all he was going to get next year and maybe not even that

So, there are 25 teams in the D(G) League next year. With 12 man rosters, you're looking at 300 roster spots. I couldn't find whether they can carry more than 12, but that's a lot of spots. If Chance can't make that cut, he has major issues.

Here's how I view his choice. It is dependent on what he wanted. If he wanted:

To get drafted--that is not happening. Not a stellar decision.

To develop in a pro league instead of Arizona--he will get that chance. He just needs to be ready for being treated as a commodity. At Arizona, the program needs you to win games. The downside of the D League development thrust is that if players don't develop, they're gone. No one will mess with you because they need a backup post to keep Ayton from dying.

Because he's tired of college--vaya con dios. We'll see if the grass is greener.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:11 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Chance was certainly capable of starting as an upperclassman (there was a very good argument that he should have been starting at some point in last year's conference season). Regardless, he was going to be the first big off the bench in 17-18 and he would have averaged more than the 18.1 mpg he averaged this past season.
I'm not sure he would have. You figure Ayton gets 30 and Dusan gets 25. Lee/Pinder get 7 and that only leaves 18.

I think he would have deserved more minutes, but I don't really see them being there.

That explains junior year. Then Ristic and Ayton would be gone.

Why would he get less if he deserves more? Does the answer belong in the Sean Miller thread?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:19 am

gumby wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Chance was certainly capable of starting as an upperclassman (there was a very good argument that he should have been starting at some point in last year's conference season). Regardless, he was going to be the first big off the bench in 17-18 and he would have averaged more than the 18.1 mpg he averaged this past season.
I'm not sure he would have. You figure Ayton gets 30 and Dusan gets 25. Lee/Pinder get 7 and that only leaves 18.

I think he would have deserved more minutes, but I don't really see them being there.
That explains junior year. Then Ristic and Ayton would be gone.

Why would he get less if he deserves more? Does the answer belong in the Sean Miller thread?

Thing is, after Ristic and Ayton leave, O'Neal and maybe Bol come.

How many minutes you get is not only how many you deserve, it's also how many are available. I think Chance would have deserved more, but fewer would have been available. Presumably Dusan/Pinder will be better a year older. Ayton will get at least as much as Lauri and Lee is a new addition. Even if Pinder redshirted, he got so few minutes that you'd expect Chance's role would stay the same or contract.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:44 am

I think Chance had a very good chance at more minutes, if he steadily improved. His "plight" in attaining playing time is not unlike that of hundreds of others at all positions.

It's a contest, as it should be. If he sees a logjam, then he isn't very confident.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:46 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
azcat49 wrote:So what's the consensus on where he might land? Is the D league even a possibility next year or will he need to learn a foreign language?

I wonder how many guys have gone foreign first and then made an NBA roster. I doubt many
There are a lot of D League spots. I'd be pretty confident he can land one.

Overseas to NBA happens. It isn't super common, but it's certainly possible. That said, Chance has a lot of developing to do. If he wants an NBA future, it won't be right off the bat. He needs to be ready for the development that will be necessary.

Gotta have that drive. If he didn't have it at Arizona doubt he just "turns it on" for the Des Moines Fire Ants, or whatever D league team he's lucky to land.

Past performance predicts future results.

But I forgot, they are just kids, gotta lay off right synder?

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Mon May 08, 2017 3:24 pm

Chance would have been a hell of a senior and I believe he would have been drafted. Too bad he didn't want to grow up first before going out into the real world

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon May 08, 2017 3:41 pm

Yeah..

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:29 pm

NYCat wrote:Yeah..

I truly hate the NBA for ruining college ball. So for those better educated than me, what's the probability of Rawle leaving now? Smh.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:33 pm

Jefe wrote:Chance would have been a hell of a senior and I believe he would have been drafted. Too bad he didn't want to grow up first before going out into the real world

Agree wholeheartedly Jefe....and that's why I group him with the Grant Jerret type of Wildcats in that I'm apathetic to following them in the future. Whereas with the TJs, Solo's, Frye's, etc. I actively follow their careers even though I have so little interest in the NBA / Pro-Ball. But these Cats paid their dues, made smart decisions, and are good representatives of Wildcat Nation as well as College Ball in general!

PS. Apologies to leaving out Kadeem Allen.....I really love that Cat and he DESERVES good things in his Pro future! Bear Down Deem

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:36 pm

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
NYCat wrote:Yeah..
I truly hate the NBA for ruining college ball. So for those better educated than me, what's the probability of Rawle leaving now? Smh.

Hard to tell. I'd assume those teams are considering drafting him and doing background. How far up on their board is he? Tough to tell. What does it mean for Rawle? That depends on his priorities.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon May 08, 2017 8:43 pm

NYCat wrote:Yeah..

why are they reaching out to HS coach and not Miller?

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue May 09, 2017 2:24 pm

Gotta agree with Hansen.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue May 09, 2017 2:39 pm

Merkin wrote:Gotta agree with Hansen.

That's because he knows what Arizona has known for a good while now.

Cam Johnson or bust.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue May 09, 2017 2:41 pm

Honestly, did anyone think Alkins and Simmons were both one and done heading into last season? One maybe, but both??

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue May 09, 2017 3:00 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Honestly, did anyone think Alkins and Simmons were both one and done heading into last season? One maybe, but both??

Simmons came to Arizona with full intentions of being one and done regardless, the staff knew it and recruited in anticipation of that. Rawle on the other hand was always a he could, but he'd probably stay. Oh well...

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue May 09, 2017 3:06 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Honestly, did anyone think Alkins and Simmons were both one and done heading into last season? One maybe, but both??
Simmons came to Arizona with full intentions of being one and done regardless, the staff knew it and recruited in anticipation of that. Rawle on the other hand was always a he could, but he'd probably stay. Oh well...

Last year played out unexpectedly recruiting-wise anyway. We thought we led for Josh Jackson. When he didn't come, we went to back-ups, and I believe that's when Kobi and Rawle committed. So you're talking about three one-and-done players, and we got the 2nd and 3rd best of that trio. We also were supposed to get Ferguson, and that didn't happen. I'm not sure there were ever plans to take Leaf *and* Lauri, but if so, that's yet another guy we lost amid the recruiting wars of '16.

BigSkyCatinMT · Post by **BigSkyCatinMT** » Tue May 09, 2017 6:57 pm

Jefe wrote:Chance would have been a hell of a senior and I believe he would have been drafted. Too bad he didn't want to grow up first before going out into the real world

Lavar Ball says Chance would beat Hakeem Olajuwon in his prime in a game of 1-on-1...or any slow white guy ever.

BigSkyCatinMT · Post by **BigSkyCatinMT** » Tue May 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Alkins oughta just hire an agent if he's going - more exposure before draft.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue May 09, 2017 7:14 pm

Merkin wrote:Gotta agree with Hansen.

Maybe he is leaving, but what he's wearing is the least telling thing ever. Kadeem is wearing Arizona gear above, and I'm pretty sure he isn't returning.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Tue May 09, 2017 7:34 pm

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
NYCat wrote:Yeah..
I truly hate the NBA for ruining college ball. So for those better educated than me, what's the probability of Rawle leaving now? Smh.

The NCAA is the one finally letting these players actually test the waters, work out for teams, and attend the combine.

The private workouts dont mean too much about a player's draft stock. Its more about getting to see someone up close and in specific drills.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue May 09, 2017 8:45 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Honestly, did anyone think Alkins and Simmons were both one and done heading into last season? One maybe, but both??
Simmons came to Arizona with full intentions of being one and done regardless, the staff knew it and recruited in anticipation of that. Rawle on the other hand was always a he could, but he'd probably stay. Oh well...
Last year played out unexpectedly recruiting-wise anyway. We thought we led for Josh Jackson. When he didn't come, we went to back-ups, and I believe that's when Kobi and Rawle committed. So you're talking about three one-and-done players, and we got the 2nd and 3rd best of that trio. We also were supposed to get Ferguson, and that didn't happen. I'm not sure there were ever plans to take Leaf *and* Lauri, but if so, that's yet another guy we lost amid the recruiting wars of '16.

Kobi and Rawle both committed to Arizona well before Jackson popped for Kansas.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue May 09, 2017 8:52 pm

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft" target="_blank

A1RZONA · Post by **A1RZONA** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:47 am

Dave wrote:http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

lol chance at 49... not sure i trust this mock at all

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 am

A1RZONA wrote:
Dave wrote:http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
lol chance at 49... not sure i trust this mock at all

Generally, Draftexpress is much more highly regarded.

Of course, this process is not exactly imbued with a ton of stability.

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